Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright · 17-11-2020 10:33am

So looks like the Fury fight in December is off due to money ,

Bob Arum saying that because it would be a Saturday afternoon in the States and in December it would get really low figures due to some very important American football games played at the same time,

It would not have been a issues normally but as there is also no gate in England ,it took them to long to get an opponent to build up the fight and the fact AJ is on Pay preview the week before they just don't think they would get the number of buys to make the whole thing worth while,

Also said if AJ wins they will look to fight him next and if he loses then they would look to fight Wilder as its the next biggest fight they can make, (AJ would be having a rematch with Pulev )

He also expects Wilder's teams case to be throw out in court on the contract dispute but if AJ loses they will go ahead and let Wilder fight Fury in late February

squinn2912 · 17-11-2020 5:25pm

It;s a bit of a watch this space and the space is moving around. A lot of variables to sort out but it was a bit of a sh*tshow from the beginning - “ill be announcing my opponent in 5 days...” I hate it when we have to put up with nonsense like that.

squinn2912 · 23-11-2020 12:13am

Joyce looking trim anyway so at least he’s going to arrive in shape. Looking forward to this

walshb · 23-11-2020 12:42pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Joyce looking trim anyway so at least he’s going to arrive in shape. Looking forward to this

And he is quite peeved that the bookies have him down as a journeyman..

Bringing anger to the ring is always a good thing for the fans..

yourdeadwright · 23-11-2020 12:50pm

Who do you lads think will win this ,

Its very hard to call at the moment for me

On one hand Joyce should be big and clever enough to frustrate his way to a late Ko or a decision
on the other is Dubious quick and explosive enough to get to Joes chin and ko him early,

Its very hard to know ,

The Nal · 23-11-2020 1:30pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Who do you lads think will win this ,

Its very hard to call at the moment for me

On one hand Joyce should be big and clever enough to frustrate his way to a late Ko or a decision
on the other is Dubious quick and explosive enough to get to Joes chin and ko him early,

Its very hard to know ,

Can't see anything but a Dubois KO. Dubois has been improving fight after fight but Joyce looked dreadful in his last fight. Slow, no hand speed and ploddy. I think he'll get walked down and stopped early enough.

yourdeadwright · 23-11-2020 1:32pm

The Nal wrote: »

Can't see anything but a Dubois KO. Dubois has been improving fight after fight but Joyce looked dreadful in his last fight. Slow, no hand speed and ploddy. I think he'll get walked down and stopped early enough.

Probably so my one reservation would be the opposition Dubois has fought so far,

The Nal · 23-11-2020 1:36pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Probably so my one reservation would be the opposition Dubois has fought so far,

No question a couple of his opponents have been punchbags.

I really like him though so 100% on the Dubois fanboy train. Dont want to see one of the most promising young talents get his career checked by a guy on a pre retirement victory lap.

Cyrus · 23-11-2020 1:49pm

The Nal wrote: »

Can't see anything but a Dubois KO. Dubois has been improving fight after fight but Joyce looked dreadful in his last fight. Slow, no hand speed and ploddy. I think he'll get walked down and stopped early enough.

i dont think DD will walk big joe down, it will be more competitive than people think i reckon and DD will be in deep water at some stage but if i was betting id have it on him to win by KO 7th or 8th round.

selectamatic · 23-11-2020 1:54pm

Worth noting that the longer the Kevin Johnson fight went on the less likely a Dubois ko victory looked. His power and snap seemed to fade quite a bit.

The Nal · 23-11-2020 1:57pm

Cyrus wrote: »

i dont think DD will walk big joe down, it will be more competitive than people think i reckon and DD will be in deep water at some stage but if i was betting id have it on him to win by KO 7th or 8th round.

selectamatic wrote: »

Worth noting that the longer the Kevin Johnson fight went on the less likely a Dubois ko victory looked. His power and snap seemed to fade quite a bit.

Yeah very exciting fight for all the reasons mentioned.

walshb · 23-11-2020 2:21pm

The cleaner and neater and more clinical punching from Dubois could see this end very early...

BUT, if Joyce can take a good shot, he has a good chance to press home and push the pace. He has a good engine....and we will see what Dubois is really made of

Dubois a deserved favorite, but not near to the level the bookies have him...

squinn2912 · 23-11-2020 11:12pm

Joyce leaves himself very very open and he’s got busy but slow hands. Jennings caught him in the first round and he was very careful after that. If Dubois catches him early I can’t see him taking it. Getting through the first three rounds wont be easy. He’ll have to do well fighting defensively and I haven’t seen him do that at all yet in his career. If he gets through rounds 1-3 then he’s got a very impressive engine. He’s irked by how the bookies etc all see this and fighting with a bit of needle will do him no harm at all. He’s just got to channel it into the game plan. Gung ho is a bad idea for him. I feel like I’m looking hard to pathways for Joyce to win while those for Dubois look much more obvious. He’s got a job on his hands though. I think this is a much harder match for Dubois than he’s faced so far. That all said he is on the way up. This is still a stepping stone fight to European and world level. In your mid 20s that shouldn’t really bring your character into too much question. IF you’re in your mid 30s a big loss is a huge setback if you’ve got lofty ambitions. I have my doubts as to whether or not Joyce really fancies himself as a potential world champion.

nacho libre · 24-11-2020 1:43pm

Joyce may be slow and plodding, but he has a good engine.

I think Joyce might surprise a few posters here. I think he will be able to take Dubois's power and force a tko by round 7.

yourdeadwright · 24-11-2020 1:47pm

nacho libre wrote: »

Joyce may be slow and plodding, but he has a good engine.

I think Joyce might surprise a few posters here. I think he will be able to take Dubois's power and force a tko by round 7.

Wouldn't surprise me ,
I do think there is a great unknow in this fight ,
I expect the above to happen maybe not in 7 but later on ,

I hope Dubois surprises me and get him out there quickly and in style
Be great to see another top heavy weight emerge and I think Joyce is to old for that to be the case,

nacho libre · 24-11-2020 2:24pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wouldn't surprise me ,
I do think there is a great unknow in this fight ,
I expect the above to happen maybe not in 7 but later on ,

I hope Dubois surprises me and get him out there quickly and in style
Be great to see another top heavy weight emerge and I think Joyce is to old for that to be the case,

Yes, i agree it would be good if that happens, but i just have the nagging feeling Dubois is not all he is cracked up to be. We'll soon see!

NewMan1982 · 24-11-2020 2:35pm

I remember thinking David Price and Tom Dallas were on their way to becoming contenders

It’s always great to watch those fights live were the wheels fall off.

eagle eye · 24-11-2020 4:11pm

Well squinn2912 mentioned the most important thing I think.
You'll know early in this fight if Joyce has any chance and it's about him keeping the gloves up.
He leaves himself open and Dubois will put his lights out quickly if he isn't protecting himself.
I think if he keeps out of trouble for a few rounds that he has a serious chance if Dubois tires.

Morrison J · 24-11-2020 4:23pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Well squinn2912 mentioned the most important thing I think.
You'll know early in this fight if Joyce has any chance and it's about him keeping the gloves up.
He leaves himself open and Dubois will put his lights out quickly if he isn't protecting himself.
I think if he keeps out of trouble for a few rounds that he has a serious chance if Dubois tires.

Worth noting also that Dubois has a mean left hook to the body and Jennings hurt Joyce bad with a body shot.

I don't think Joyce has the defensive ability to avoid taking shots early in this. He's just got to prove his durability. I'm not really convinced he's as durable as advertised but we'll see.

gypsy79 · 24-11-2020 5:11pm

nacho libre wrote: »

Yes, i agree it would be good if that happens, but i just have the nagging feeling Dubois is not all he is cracked up to be. We'll soon see!

Same here. He has the smell of AJ about him in that he may look better than he is

squinn2912 · 24-11-2020 5:30pm

Some of the points mentioned making good sense to me. I think for Joyce to win he’s going to need to force Dubois to be on the back foot early on. Keep him honest and off balance with a good, quick jab. Defend better, especially to the body. Jennings really did hurt him and another shot may well have taken him out. But they can all be hurt.
I dont think Joyce should approach things too cautiously. Nathan Gorman did that and he was overwhelmed. I think Joyce beats Gorman.
Joyce has a big, long reach and a great output even if there’s not much steam in a lot of what he does. I just don’t see how he copes with being significantly slower than Dubois and without the same one punch power or neatness in combos. But Dubois is fairly untested. He needs to get in his face and ask him some questions. There are things he can do.

As for the wheels come off fights. They are great for generating discussion but I actually hate to see that. The aura gone forever. I love a seesaw fight where one is just about better than the other. It;s a bit like a penalty shoot out. I don’t like to see a team lose because their kicker froze or blasted it over the bar. I like to see positive things. When I’m rooting for a fighter though I do love an impressive ko so there’s clarity of thought for you all!!

yourdeadwright · 29-11-2020 12:30am

Its nice when your prediction is on the money Joe with the late stoppage

squinn2912 · 29-11-2020 10:13am

Haha yea I think you should be getting more credit for the prediction too. Great performance from Joe. I’m not exactly shocked he won but I didn’t think he’d be as comfortable. He was doing damage from round 1 with a very intelligent jab.

So I expect Dubois to be inactive until the summer and then he’ll go back to KO collections against some cans. And that’s ok he’s 23 this level was likely too early for him. His team and he didn’t seem to have much of a plan other than to do what they always do. Joyce had a plan for Dubois and that’s what counted.

So Joyce where does he go next? The Usyk fight is the one he wants. I can see Usyk being in a gimme to wait on aj. A lot of moving parts at the moment. Pulev AJ is a good fight and there are no guarantees although I expect aj to win. Fury hasn’t said much lately other than to cancel his fight next month. Surely Whyte and Povetkin will reschedule soon unless there’s more to the Clovid story with Povetkin, I haven’t heard any more. So if it isn’t Usyk then who does Joyce go for?

A lot of talk that Yoka wasn’t great on Friday night, I didn’t see it but there’s a potential rematch for Joyce, especially if he wasn’t good.

If Dubois had won this fight we’d all be thinking Joyce was no good anyway but it was a good win. Now Joyce has won we’re full of new questions. Next match up for him needs to be a step up, at 35 if he’s going to come into world contention then he needs to get moving. I’d like to see him in a fight with the top guys. No one gets an easy night with him.

OmegaGene · 29-11-2020 11:52am

The general consensus is looking like
Aj beats pulev and drops a belt to fight fury
Usyk v Joyce duke it out for the belt

Too many variables really to be sure what’s going to happen

Cyrus · 29-11-2020 12:04pm

OmegaGene wrote: »

The general consensus is looking like
Aj beats pulev and drops a belt to fight fury
Usyk v Joyce duke it out for the belt

Too many variables really to be sure what’s going to happen

You’d imagine usyk will have too much speed for joe but who knows

I like the juggernaut !

Cyrus · 29-11-2020 12:05pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Haha yea I think you should be getting more credit for the prediction too. Great performance from Joe. I’m not exactly shocked he won but I didn’t think he’d be as comfortable. He was doing damage from round 1 with a very intelligent jab.

So I expect Dubois to be inactive until the summer and then he’ll go back to KO collections against some cans. And that’s ok he’s 23 this level was likely too early for him. His team and he didn’t seem to have much of a plan other than to do what they always do. Joyce had a plan for Dubois and that’s what counted.

So Joyce where does he go next? The Usyk fight is the one he wants. I can see Usyk being in a gimme to wait on aj. A lot of moving parts at the moment. Pulev AJ is a good fight and there are no guarantees although I expect aj to win. Fury hasn’t said much lately other than to cancel his fight next month. Surely Whyte and Povetkin will reschedule soon unless there’s more to the Clovid story with Povetkin, I haven’t heard any more. So if it isn’t Usyk then who does Joyce go for?

A lot of talk that Yoka wasn’t great on Friday night, I didn’t see it but there’s a potential rematch for Joyce, especially if he wasn’t good.

If Dubois had won this fight we’d all be thinking Joyce was no good anyway but it was a good win. Now Joyce has won we’re full of new questions. Next match up for him needs to be a step up, at 35 if he’s going to come into world contention then he needs to get moving. I’d like to see him in a fight with the top guys. No one gets an easy night with him.

It’s a good thing it didn’t goto the judges one of them had Dubois 8/1 up starting the 10th

Joyce was controlling the fight from the 7th on imo and it was pretty even up to then

normanoffside · 29-11-2020 12:11pm

Cyrus wrote: »

It’s a good thing it didn’t goto the judges one of them had Dubois 8/1 up starting the 10th

Joyce was controlling the fight from the 7th on imo and it was pretty even up to then

Where are you getting that?

The scores were 7-2 DDD, 5-4 DDD and 7-3 Joyce

https://boxrec.com/en/event/818449/2565030

Cyrus · 29-11-2020 12:16pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Where are you getting that?

The scores were 7-2 DDD, 5-4 DDD and 7-3 Joyce

https://boxrec.com/en/event/818449/2565030

Sorry must have been mistaken but the wide ddd card looked off imo

OmegaGene · 29-11-2020 12:24pm

Cyrus wrote: »

You’d imagine usyk will have too much speed for joe but who knows

I like the juggernaut !

Yes I think usyk will be way too fast for him but it only take a flurry of clatters and it’s all over

walshb · 29-11-2020 12:28pm

OmegaGene wrote: »

Yes I think usyk will be way too fast for him but it only take a flurry of clatters and it’s all over

Not sure Joe lands them, and if he does, Usyk could take them. Joe is not a big hitter.

normanoffside · 29-11-2020 12:30pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Sorry must have been mistaken but the wide ddd card looked off imo

One Judge gave DDD all of the first 6 and another Gave Joyce the 1st but DDD the next 5,
Those first 6 rounds were very tight to be fair

Cyrus · 29-11-2020 12:35pm

normanoffside wrote: »

One Judge gave DDD all of the first 6 and another Gave Joyce the 1st but DDD the next 5,
Those first 6 rounds were very tight to be fair

They were but to score them all to DDD wasn’t right imo especially as he was marking up early joe was clearly getting to him constantly with the jab whereas DDD was fighting in flurries

Cyrus · 29-11-2020 12:36pm

Anyone else disappointed with bunceys interview ?

It was more about Dubois losing than Joyce winning

walshb · 29-11-2020 12:39pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Anyone else disappointed with bunceys interview ?

It was more about Dubois losing than Joyce winning

Difficult lads to interview. Not much going on

But, the manner of the loss would see the interviewer focus more on this..

Cyrus · 29-11-2020 12:40pm

walshb wrote: »

Difficult lads to interview. Not much going on

But, the manner of the loss would see the interviewer focus more on this..

Dubois is very bad , joe ain’t great but he is better , but they kept cutting him off .

I’m sure he won’t care but it was a bit disrespectful imo .

squinn2912 · 29-11-2020 12:57pm

Ive long given up expecting anything from Steve Bunce. Stealing a living. I think his best attribute is his accent? Parasite.

I thought more should have been made of Joyce having been a 3/1 underdog. He bossed that fight. Surprised by the scorecards. He was in control almost throughout. Not a scratch on him and Dubois eye was a mess and all around the nose area well beat up. Lips looked puffed too and he was breathing very heavily. Joe could still be fighting. He operates in a difficult 3rd gear and opponents find it very hard to get to him. This was a massive win for him and as I say he looked in charge most of the time.

Maybe less made of it since the most likely next fight is Usyk. He’s got a small pool of fighters that he can fight next. Either Usyk non title or fight for a belt. I wouldn’t be confident in saying who wins Joyce Usyk. I think he’d have a great contest with Whyte or Chisora and likely beat both. I think the big 3 all stop him.

weemcd · 29-11-2020 1:17pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Anyone else disappointed with bunceys interview ?

It was more about Dubois losing than Joyce winning

I'm disappointed every time I hear the sound of Steve Bunce's voice. I absolutely cannot have him.

yourdeadwright · 29-11-2020 1:48pm

I think Joes a very smart fella when it comes to his boxing style,
He uses a style that gets 100% oit of the abilities he has,
He tries nothing flashy or even creative, he just keeps his length and hit you with 20-30% of his power as often as he can and hopes to just wear you down,

DDD tried to bait him into a fire fight and few tomes but Joe kept his discipline and stuck to the game plan amd DDD just had no answer to it

The manner of the defeat was pretty bad for DDD he basically gave up and ran put of ideas

Joe is no world beater but hes good at the basics, big, fit and tough as old boots

squinn2912 · 29-11-2020 6:34pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think Joes a very smart fella when it comes to his boxing style,
He uses a style that gets 100% oit of the abilities he has,
He tries nothing flashy or even creative, he just keeps his length and hit you with 20-30% of his power as often as he can and hopes to just wear you down,

DDD tried to bait him into a fire fight and few tomes but Joe kept his discipline and stuck to the game plan amd DDD just had no answer to it

The manner of the defeat was pretty bad for DDD he basically gave up and ran put of ideas

Joe is no world beater but hes good at the basics, big, fit and tough as old boots

Yea I think you make a good point as always. There;s nothing flashy or exciting about JJ but he’s a nightmare to fight. The Usyk fight could be available in the next 6 months but if that gets put on the back burner then it will be because Usyk is having the AJ or Fury fight. Joe may well get a crack at Fury if AJ decided to take on Usyk (better chance of prolonging his reign) or if Pulev caused an injury (can see him beating aj). So where would Joyce go? I could see him fight Yoka he’s bound to fancy that at some stage.

yourdeadwright · 29-11-2020 10:14pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Yea I think you make a good point as always. There;s nothing flashy or exciting about JJ but he’s a nightmare to fight. The Usyk fight could be available in the next 6 months but if that gets put on the back burner then it will be because Usyk is having the AJ or Fury fight. Joe may well get a crack at Fury if AJ decided to take on Usyk (better chance of prolonging his reign) or if Pulev caused an injury (can see him beating aj). So where would Joyce go? I could see him fight Yoka he’s bound to fancy that at some stage.

Hes very boring but he does the basics very well
I think because he became a pro so late in life he doesnt need to play upto his ego or try be something he is not he is happy just to do what he has to do to win,

Theres lots of good fights for him now, Whyte,Uysk, AVP, even Wilder, i could see ways he could ends up in the ring with any of then,
In saying that he may not beat any of them

squinn2912 · 30-11-2020 12:01am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hes very boring but he does the basics very well
I think because he became a pro so late in life he doesnt need to play upto his ego or try be something he is not he is happy just to do what he has to do to win,

Theres lots of good fights for him now, Whyte,Uysk, AVP, even Wilder, i could see ways he could ends up in the ring with any of then,
In saying that he may not beat any of them

He interviews like a moron as well and that does nothing to add enthusiasm. His impression of Usyk is full on cringe I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. But he’s a very effective operator.

Who is AVP? I think he could well beat Whyte his jab is much better and so is his footwork. Whyte is much more aggressive but his basics are all over the place and he can’t stay focussed. He could be up against Wilder but I can’t see how Wilder wouldn’t make that massive reach and speed count at some point. Wilder KO in any round but I’d expect mid rounds. Ortiz might be a good match up for Joyce. Lots of fights there for him but he will want to get the best money fight I’d imagine that’s Usyk. I give him a real chance with Usyk as well but I don’t think prodding him with the jab would be enough to do the same damage as Dubois.

yourdeadwright · 30-11-2020 11:04am

squinn2912 wrote: »

He interviews like a moron as well and that does nothing to add enthusiasm. His impression of Usyk is full on cringe I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. But he’s a very effective operator.

Who is AVP? I think he could well beat Whyte his jab is much better and so is his footwork. Whyte is much more aggressive but his basics are all over the place and he can’t stay focussed. He could be up against Wilder but I can’t see how Wilder wouldn’t make that massive reach and speed count at some point. Wilder KO in any round but I’d expect mid rounds. Ortiz might be a good match up for Joyce. Lots of fights there for him but he will want to get the best money fight I’d imagine that’s Usyk. I give him a real chance with Usyk as well but I don’t think prodding him with the jab would be enough to do the same damage as Dubois.

Ye he is very boring and has no star power , he is almost to respectful for the business he is in ,

Alexander Vladimirovich Povetkin

I honestly think Joyce is clever enough to know where he stands and will go into any of them fights knowing he is an under dog,

He has got a lot of flak over his style and lack of personality so I'm delighted for him getting the win and hopefully get himself and nice big pay day or two now ,

iebamm2580 · 30-11-2020 4:45pm

surprised dubois quit, i know hes young but that does not bode too well for the future, thought joyce showed a good chin tbf, but jesus he comes across terrible and he just doesn't have the humor to even try be funny. Dubois seems like a nice guy but again very camera shy, not the 2 sharpest knives in the drawer unlike fury who is by far the wittiest and funniest.

gypsy79 · 30-11-2020 5:08pm

I would sum up the fight as Dubois throwing in occassional 3o seconds of good work then allowing Joyce to jab the head off him with no head movement

I can understand why there were scorecards so far apart because different judges will value the quality higher than the constant little jabs to the head

Long way back for Dubois as learning the required head movement is not easy

yourdeadwright · 30-11-2020 5:37pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

I would sum up the fight as Dubois throwing in occassional 3o seconds of good work then allowing Joyce to jab the head off him with no head movement

I can understand why there were scorecards so far apart because different judges will value the quality higher than the constant little jabs to the head

Long way back for Dubois as learning the required head movement is not easy

It stank of Dubois having no amateur experience and lacking the real basic's
He couldn't close the distance or set anything up properly ,

I'm convinced his 30 seconds of walking Joyce down throwing hard leather was a way of trying to force Joyce into a fire fight , It was desperation that Joyce didn't fall for ,

Again Joyce is no world beater but being a Olympic silver medallist without being athletically explosive or quick handed means he must have a very good knowledge of the basics and it showed,

Morrison J · 30-11-2020 5:41pm

Fights like Saturday night does make one wonder why we have a 380 page thread on the worst division in boxing. Scary the lack of talent coming through too. Once Fury, Wilder and Joshua retire there's going to be very little. Two of the biggest hopes in Yoka and Dubois both looked a fraction of what they're hyped up to be at the weekend.

Cyrus · 30-11-2020 5:53pm

it was worth watching to see franks face when he realised Dubois wasnt the second coming to be fair, but it is a worrying time for the heavy weight scene, the americans just arent getting into boxing at hw, if they are big its football or basketball.

The Nal · 30-11-2020 6:02pm

Cyrus wrote: »

it was worth watching to see franks face when he realised Dubois wasnt the second coming to be fair, but it is a worrying time for the heavy weight scene, the americans just arent getting into boxing at hw, if they are big its football or basketball.

Or MMA.

Who was the last great HW? Evander? Thats depressing.

gypsy79 · 30-11-2020 6:14pm

The Nal wrote: »

Or MMA.

Who was the last great HW? Evander? Thats depressing.

Tyson Fury is possibly the greatest HW of all time and we are lamenting how bad current is??

The Nal · 30-11-2020 6:18pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Tyson Fury is possibly the greatest HW of all time and we are lamenting how bad current is??

Sorry no to clarify, I meant the last great American HW.

Assume you're joking about Tyson Fury being possibly the greatest HW of all time?

Either way, yeah, the current HW scene is a shambles in terms of quality.

Heavyweight Boxing

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