Government considering dedicated Transport Police

Kermit.de.frog · 26-10-2018 1:08am #1

In IT tomorrow but pay walled for me.

Fully support this. All i'll say though it's long past time.

TallGlass · 26-10-2018 11:58am

Dedicated transport police unit under consideration after violence on trains

Conor Gallagher

The Government is considering establishing a dedicated policing unit for public transport to address concerns of antisocial behaviour.

Officials in the Department of Justice and the Department of Transport are examining ways of improving passenger experiences on public transport following recent increases in violence and public order incidents on trains.

Gardaí dealt with 43 allegations of assault on trains last year, up from nine in 2016. In the first five months of this year there have been 26 assaults. Robberies have also increased from three last year to 10 in the first five months of this year.

Passengers made 407 complaints to Irish Rail of antisocial behaviour last year, up from 246 the year before. Incidents of intimidation almost doubled to 117, while vandalism complaints more than tripled to 70.

An Irish Rail spokeswoman said the situation appears to be worsening: “While the overwhelming majority of our 45.5 million annual journeys occur without incident, both employee reports and customer feedback do confirm that there has been an increase in the number of antisocial behaviour incidents over the past 18 months.”

Several measures
The company set out several measures it is taking to address the problem, including ensuring “a strong liaison and effective response to issues from the gardaí”.

It said: “The structuring of these resources including the possibility of a dedicated Garda unit is being assessed we understand.”

Irish Rail said: “The Department of Transport in the first instance is engaging with Department of Justice and gardaí on the issue in the wider context of public transport.”

The Garda did not respond to questions about a potential transport unit but said it “regularly provides stakeholders, including transport providers, with Garda support”.

The forthcoming Open City Operation in Dublin will see a Garda presence on certain late night services on Irish Rail, Dublin Bus and Luas “to support public safety”, a spokesman said.

A spokesman for the Department of Justice said it had received correspondence from the Minister for Transport which was under consideration. “It has been sent to An Garda Síochána for their views, given that the allocation of all Garda resources, including the manner in which Garda personnel are deployed, is solely a decision for the Garda Commissioner and his management team,” he said.

Irish Rail and Transdev, which operates the Luas, contract private security companies to provide security on-board and at stations. It is understood Irish Rail spends more than €3 million a year on security costs.

Potential option
One potential option for a dedicated unit is the creation of a specialist unit within An Garda Síochána, similar to the traffic corp but on a smaller scale. It would have the power to deal with incidents on board as well as other transport-related offences such as the theft of rail equipment and ticket fraud.

An alternative is the establishment of a separate police force similar to the Airport Police operating in Dublin and Cork. These specialist officers have full police powers within the State’s airports but not outside them. Similar forces are deployed on public transport in the UK, France and US.

coylemj · 26-10-2018 12:20pm

For the number of officers that would actually be on the ground at a given time, I think the cost of setting up a new force would be totally disproportionate. They'd have to have new offices, board of directors, new logo, IT manager, IT systems, HR manager etc. etc. Far better to set up a transport corps within AGS.

lawred2 · 26-10-2018 12:20pm

It's about time

Bray Head · 26-10-2018 1:41pm

coylemj wrote: »

For the number of officers that would actually be on the ground at a given time, I think the cost of setting up a new force would be totally disproportionate. They'd have to have new offices, board of directors, new logo, IT manager, IT systems, HR manager etc. etc. Far better to set up a transport corps within AGS.

The issue is that there is one already, but it doesn't get priority from Garda management.

A traffic police would have a narrower set of training and responsibilities than AGS staff. It would also be possible to pay them less:)

LeChienMefiant · 26-10-2018 4:01pm

We already have Roads Policing or Traffic Corps that do not police Roads/Traffic. What's going to be different this time?

Pelvis · 26-10-2018 4:34pm

45 million journeys annually, with 400 complaints of antisocial behaviour?

TBH, it doesn't seem to warrant a dedicated police unit. How about Irish Rail just take responsibility themselves and increase security on trains??

ED E · 26-10-2018 4:37pm

The RPU(Formerly traffic corps) are not reserved for traffic. If you're the Galway Chief Super and you have 100 Gardai with 20 in traffic, if you're stretched you pull the traffic back to other duties. Traffic HQ in Dublin Castle can't do squat.

If you were to do this correctly any transit corps would need to be ring fenced.

daheff · 26-10-2018 4:49pm

fantastic.

stick them on the red luas line for a couple of months and drive the scum off it.

sick of seeing them just not pay and luas people afraid to do anything except have them leave the luas and on the other side put the full legal force against any reasonably respectable person who forgot to pay or lost a ticket.

daheff · 26-10-2018 4:52pm

Pelvis wrote: »

45 million journeys annually, with 400 complaints of antisocial behaviour?

4000 complaints is because people don't see anything happening even if they do complain. I'd wager if you spent a full 40 hour working week on the Luas Red line
you'd see 400 incidents.

Del2005 · 26-10-2018 4:54pm

Not much point in introducing a new enforcement arm if the justice system isn't reformed. All we'll have is the transport police not reacting to incidents because they will run into the same problems that the Gardaì and private security currently have to face.

Spanish Eyes · 26-10-2018 4:59pm

Well it is positive news. Let's not denigrate it before it has even been established.

I am a bit wary though, given that enforcement of traffic laws is abysmal. But we live in hope. At least they will have powers of arrest which current security personnel don't.

Pelvis · 26-10-2018 4:59pm

daheff wrote: »

you'd see 400 incidents.

Possibly, and how many security personnel would you see? Shouldn't the private companies at least make an effort to tackle the problem first?

.G. · 26-10-2018 5:46pm

Its a god thing but if its part of AGS they need more resources, not to stretch their current resources even more. As others have said, our road traffic laws aren't enforced because there simply isn't enough Gardai out there to do it. The force needs a substantial increase in budget and numbers.

_Kaiser_ · 27-10-2018 10:51pm

superg wrote: »

Its a god thing but if its part of AGS they need more resources, not to stretch their current resources even more. As others have said, our road traffic laws aren't enforced because there simply isn't enough Gardai out there to do it. The force needs a substantial increase in budget and numbers.

I don't buy this.. the problem with AGS is the culture in the force.

Many Gardai just can't be bothered with doing their jobs and you see this every day and in dealings with them. That's just the day-to-day apathy.. I'm not going to even get into some of the behavior revealed in the whistleblower saga.

Unless that changes, it won't matter how many of them there are.

the_syco · 27-10-2018 11:35pm

daheff wrote: »

stick them on the red luas line for a couple of months and drive the scum off it.

IMO, give the LUAS security people more leeway on how to deal with the anti-social yobs.

punisher5112 · 27-10-2018 11:38pm

To be honest I don't see it working as they can't cope or enforce most other laws as it is.

What about all the issues on buses.

There is no back up whats ever.

newspower · 27-10-2018 11:49pm

There should be some sort of transport Police. In most European countries there is security on nearly every single train and it results in very little trouble. Yet we dont have a huge Transport set up here and we still cant police it. Disgraceful that people cannot go on public transport without worrying about what may happen.

.G. · 28-10-2018 12:55am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't buy this.. the problem with AGS is the culture in the force.

Many Gardai just can't be bothered with doing their jobs and you see this every day and in dealings with them. That's just the day-to-day apathy.. I'm not going to even get into some of the behavior revealed in the whistleblower saga.

Unless that changes, it won't matter how many of them there are.

There is a definite issue with the culture in the force but that does not detract from the fact that these lads and ladies are paid a pittance for what they do and there isn't anywhere near enough of them. We should have ringfenced road traffic division and a transport police, not drawn from the current numbers on the force.

They pick and choose what they are interested in pursuing because there isn't enough of them to pursue everything.

JayRoc · 28-10-2018 8:47am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

At least they will have powers of arrest which current security personnel don't.

Actually, they do.

goingnowhere · 28-10-2018 10:51am

JayRoc wrote: »

Actually, they do.

Not quite

Private security hired in, no power

Authorised officer of the company appointed as a revenue protection official has a warrant card and can detain subject to the provisions of the Transport Acts

JayRoc · 29-10-2018 10:08am

goingnowhere wrote: »

Not quite

Private security hired in, no power

Authorised officer of the company appointed as a revenue protection official has a warrant card and can detain subject to the provisions of the Transport Acts

Private Security personnel have the power of arrest. Haven't you ever seen a security guard arrest a shoplifter?

They have the same right to arrest someone that you and I and every non-garda has. Which is substantial and usually sufficient.

JayRoc · 29-10-2018 10:19am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

. At least they will have powers of arrest which current security personnel don't.

I think I actually misunderstood your post, I think you were saying the gardai have additional powers of arrest to what the security have? If so apologies for correcting something you didn't say!

Tow · 29-10-2018 10:25am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Many Gardai just can't be bothered with doing their jobs and you see this every day and in dealings with them. That's just the day-to-day apathy..

Much of this stems from the judicial system/lack of prison places etc. Same with any worker who regularly sees their hard work going to waste.

beauf · 29-10-2018 11:15am

A non payer stopped my train the other year security wouldn't remove him no Garda available to deal with but they waited on the Garda. Who never came. Whole line blocked for an hour or more.

Passed about 20 Garda and cars all hanging around an eviction not 5 mins away after I left the train.

Something needed to change. Its got to lunacy levels out there.

goingnowhere · 29-10-2018 12:58pm

JayRoc wrote: »

Private Security personnel have the power of arrest. Haven't you ever seen a security guard arrest a shoplifter?

They have the same right to arrest someone that you and I and every non-garda has. Which is substantial and usually sufficient.

Power to detain and power to arrest are two different things

Jamie2k9 · 29-10-2018 2:12pm

An account of both high profile incidents in Portmarnock and Clongriffin and apparently the most troublesome routes are Dublin-Sligo and Dublin-Cork, according to staff.

Sligo is not a surprise, wonder if the census figures for one or two towns on the route explain who causes the most trouble!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/i-thought-i-was-going-to-die-that-night-violence-on-irish-rail-1.3675372

GM228 · 29-10-2018 2:25pm

JayRoc wrote: »

Private Security personnel have the power of arrest. Haven't you ever seen a security guard arrest a shoplifter?

They have the same right to arrest someone that you and I and every non-garda has. Which is substantial and usually sufficient.

Every person in the state has a power of arrest (often called a citizens arrest), but it is not unqualified, to carry out such lawfully the person being arrested must be suspected of committing what is known an "arrestable offence", despite it's confusing name this does not mean any offence which you can ordinarily be arrested for, rather an arrestable offence is one which carries a potential 5 year + sentence, as most offences under the Transport Act and CIE/LUAS bye-laws are not arrestable offences then pricate security staff have no power of arrest. CIE/LUAS staff however do have such powers of arrest as per statute. Transdev and TII were exploring the possibility of appointing private security as "authorised persons" to afford them the powers of arrest, must follow up on that.

A cirizens arrest is a very risky move to make if you do not know the law, if you attempt to do so on someone who has not committed or is suspected of committing an arrestable offence then you could be in very serious trouble for making an unlawful arrest, false imprisonment or depriving some of their constitutional rights.

Security staff can lawfully arrest someone for shop lifting because it's an arrestable offence, however try arresting someone for suspected drink driving for example and you are in trouble as it isn't an arrestable offence.

GM228 · 29-10-2018 2:28pm

goingnowhere wrote: »
Power to detain and power to arrest are two different things

Not really, a power to arrest is a power to lawfully detain, further detention after arrest is the iasue and once you make a lawful arrest you can detain someone as long as needed to hand them over to Gardaí.

JayRoc · 29-10-2018 4:48pm

GM228 wrote: »

Every person in the state has a power of arrest (often called a citizens arrest), but it is not unqualified, to carry out such lawfully the person being arrested must be suspected of committing what is known an "arrestable offence", despite it's confusing name this does not mean any offence which you can ordinarily be arrested for, rather an arrestable offence is one which carries a potential 5 year + sentence, as most offences under the Transport Act and CIE/LUAS bye-laws are not arrestable offences then pricate security staff have no power of arrest. CIE/LUAS staff however do have such powers of arrest as per statute. Transdev and TII were exploring the possibility of appointing private security as "authorised persons" to afford them the powers of arrest, must follow up on that.

A cirizens arrest is a very risky move to make if you do not know the law v if you attempt to do so on someone who has not committed or is suspected of committing an arrestable offence then you could be in very serious trouble for making an unlawful arrest, false imprisonment or depriving some of their constitutional rights.

Security staff can lawfully arrest someone for shop lifting because it's an arrestable offence, however try arresting someone for suspected drink driving for example and you are in trouble as it isn't an arrestable offence.

I worked in the private security industry for ten years , I am aware of all of the above believe me! But I was making the point that private security do have the power to arrest people. We all do. It's a common misconception.

Colonel Claptrap · 31-10-2018 7:23am

There was a stabbing on board a Northern line service last night.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/live-irish-rail-passengers-terrified-15351234

Reporting is inaccurate. It was not a DART.

CatFromHue · 31-10-2018 6:35pm

I don't get the DART regularly anymore but I used to get it daily.

I thought back then that there were security personnel working on the DART line.

punisher5112 · 31-10-2018 8:17pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

I don't get the DART regularly anymore but I used to get it daily.

I thought back then that there were security personnel working on the DART line.

There are but not on every train.

Also lot of linked up units where can't walk through all carriages.

prinzeugen · 31-10-2018 10:44pm

If they do go for a transport police it needs to have the same power, but be separate of the Garda much like the BTP.

Officers specifically trained to deal with incidents on the railway (PTS cards etc).

Keeping them separate will also mean that they are 100% dedicated to that role and are not going to have to deal with other issues.

Stephen15 · 01-11-2018 12:12am

prinzeugen wrote: »

If they do go for a transport police it needs to have the same power, but be separate of the Garda much like the BTP.

Officers specifically trained to deal with incidents on the railway (PTS cards etc).

Keeping them separate will also mean that they are 100% dedicated to that role and are not going to have to deal with other issues.

I don't think we have a railway network big enough to justify it's own dedicated police force like the BTP. As I'm sure you're aware Britain unlike most countries in Europe doesn't a single national police force but rather a series of regional police forces.

I think there should be a Garda unit set aside to police rail and light rail systems obviously with proper railway related training. Perhaps could they could have a unit in most major stations such as Connolly, Pearse, Hueston even Busaras aswell and units patrolling both Luas lines and the Dart. You could also have some on the problem services such as those with an alcohol ban and services notorious for anti social behaviour.

A dedicated police would cost too much to set up and would largely duplicate AGS as it would need to have it's own commisoner, detectives, inspectors, superintendents and sergeants which would be a waste of resources for a small enough railway network.

Also then you got the issue of if there is to be an incident across the road from say a unit based in Connolly which would be across the road from a transport police unit but they would have to wait for a Garda response as the transport police would be leaving their jurisdiction likewise there could be an incident on board a train, on the track or in the station and the Gardai could be nearer the incident but yet they would have wait for s transport police unit to respond which might be further away. I can't see it being all that practical.

prinzeugen · 01-11-2018 1:27am

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't think we have a railway network big enough to justify it's own dedicated police force like the BTP. As I'm sure you're aware Britain unlike most countries in Europe doesn't a single national police force but rather a series of regional police forces.

I think there should be a Garda unit set aside to police rail and light rail systems obviously with proper railway related training. Perhaps could they could have a unit in most major stations such as Connolly, Pearse, Hueston even Busaras aswell and units patrolling both Luas lines and the Dart. You could also have some on the problem services such as those with an alcohol ban and services notorious for anti social behaviour.

A dedicated police would cost too much to set up and would largely duplicate AGS as it would need to have it's own commisoner, detectives, inspectors, superintendents and sergeants which would be a waste of resources for a small enough railway network.

Also then you got the issue of if there is to be an incident across the road from say a unit based in Connolly which would be across the road from a transport police unit but they would have to wait for a Garda response as the transport police would be leaving their jurisdiction likewise there could be an incident on board a train, on the track or in the station and the Gardai could be nearer the incident but yet they would have wait for s transport police unit to respond which might be further away. I can't see it being all that practical.

The BTP has one law but 2 ways of doing it. English law or Scottish for offences.

And BTP officers can still intervene and have full powers of arrest if they see a crime being committed.

The whole plan of amalgamation of the BTP in Scotland with Police Scotland was shelved because they knew that officers were going to get called away.

I have tried to find a post on the UK rail forum about why the BTP is valuable. Suicide was one example. The line is shut down because there are local police running around on a live railway. The DART was probably shut down the other night for the same reason. Garda on the tracks with no PTS cert.

An Irish version of the BTP could, with training, get trains moving quicker.

And an Irish transport police would cover all public transport. Trains, Luas, (DB & BE in certain cases). Everything thing from suicide to a bit graffiti.

And if you were to join the existing airport and port police to form a new transport unit, most of the infrastructure is there.

Stephen15 · 01-11-2018 1:57am

prinzeugen wrote: »

The BTP has one law but 2 ways of doing it. English law or Scottish for offences.

And BTP officers can still intervene and have full powers of arrest if they see a crime being committed.

The whole plan of amalgamation of the BTP in Scotland with Police Scotland was shelved because they knew that officers were going to get called away.

I have tried to find a post on the UK rail forum about why the BTP is valuable. Suicide was one example. The line is shut down because there are local police running around on a live railway. The DART was probably shut down the other night for the same reason. Garda on the tracks with no PTS cert.

An Irish version of the BTP could, with training, get trains moving quicker.

And an Irish transport police would cover all public transport. Trains, Luas, (DB & BE in certain cases). Everything thing from suicide to a bit graffiti.

And if you were to join the existing airport and port police to form a new transport unit, most of the infrastructure is there.

I see the need for such a force in a country like Britain with a large railway network but you have to remember here in Ireland we only have 362km of mainline track compared to nearly 16,000km of track in the UK so there's a fairly considerable difference between the UK and Ireland in terms of the need for a transport police. I'm not denying that the BTP is very suitable force for the nature of the British railway network but I just think it would be suitable here as we are a small country with a small network.

There is no reason why a Garda unit to tackle transport couldn't be set up and I believe it would be more cost effective and easier to set up than a separate police. No reason why members of dedicated Garda unit couldn't have PTS pass and proper training.

In the case of accidents and one unders you'd also have the issue of firefighters and paramedics on the tracks with no PTS certs not just police officers.

ChikiChiki · 01-11-2018 2:02am

You do see the police here in Sydney at the train stations with dogs, on the trains checking tickets and maintaining a presence on the lines where there is a greater chance of anti social behavior. I think that would be better, to have a section within AGS dedicated to policing transport.

prinzeugen · 01-11-2018 2:09am

Stephen15 wrote: »

I see the need for such a force in a country like Britain with a large railway network but you have to remember here in Ireland we only have 362km of mainline track compared to nearly 16,000km of track in the UK so there's a fairly considerable difference between the UK and Ireland in terms of the need for a transport police. I'm not denying that the BTP is very suitable force for the nature of the British railway network but I just think it would be suitable here as we are a small country with a small network.

There is no reason why a Garda unit to tackle transport couldn't be set up and I believe it would be more cost effective and easier to set up than a separate police. No reason why members of dedicated Garda unit couldn't have PTS pass and proper training.

In the case of accidents and one unders you'd also have the issue of firefighters and paramedics on the tracks with no PTS certs not just police officers.

In the case of one unders.. The fire/ambulances know to wait. I will dig out that post.

How would a Garda with PTS deal with a incident if they were sitting with a 89 year old, taking ab aggravated burglary statement?

Drop what they do? The BTP got that TOX guy in London for £100,000s of damage to transport.

Daemonic · 01-11-2018 9:48am

Stephen15 wrote: »

... here in Ireland we only have 362km of mainline track ....

362Km can't be right, Dublin to Cork is 260Km by road so assume the rail distance is similar.

L1011 · 01-11-2018 9:52am

It's about 2000km, plus the Luas system and city buses which would have a need for policing. We desperately need proper policing in stations and on vehicles, AGS are not going to be the provider of it

It would be impossible to even schedule PTS training for sufficient AGS members for that to be an option

Stephen15 · 01-11-2018 10:13am

Daemonic wrote: »

362Km can't be right, Dublin to Cork is 260Km by road so assume the rail distance is similar.

Sorry read the wrong stat correction is 2,600km of track

Stephen15 · 01-11-2018 10:18am

prinzeugen wrote: »

In the case of one unders.. The fire/ambulances know to wait. I will dig out that post.

How would a Garda with PTS deal with a incident if they were sitting with a 89 year old, taking ab aggravated burglary statement?

Drop what they do? The BTP got that TOX guy in London for £100,000s of damage to transport.

It would be a Garda unit dedicated to transport incidents they wouldn't respond to other non transport. You'd get the same benefit of a transport police without the cost of setting up a brand new police with it's own commisoner, detectives, sergeants and inspectors.

bk · 01-11-2018 10:37am

Stephen15 wrote: »

It would be a Garda unit dedicated to transport incidents they wouldn't respond to other non transport. You'd get the same benefit of a transport police without the cost of setting up a brand new police with it's own commisoner, detectives, sergeants and inspectors.

We all know that if they are part of the Gardai, they would soon be pulled off transport duties and end up doing "regular" duties, just like the Traffic Division.

We need to keep them separate in order for them to stay focused on the task at hand.

As for the comments about costs and overheads. Well we have a separate Airport Police and Harbour Police and their overheads, so I don't see why setting up another service would be a major problem.

If you want to save a little on the costs, you could merge the Airport Police and Harbour Police into a new Transport Police Service.

Stephen15 · 01-11-2018 10:47am

bk wrote: »

As for the comments about costs and overheads. Well we have a separate Airport Police and Harbour Police and their overheads, so I don't see why setting up another service would be a major problem.

If you want to save a little on the costs, you could merge the Airport Police and Harbour Police into a new Transport Police Service.

The Airport and harbour police forces are tiny with limited ability to investigate crime. Also they have been around quite a while I think the Dun Laoghaire harbour police for example date back to 1836 making them the oldest uniformed force in the state. While the airport and port police forces have the power of arrest they then have to hand suspects over to the Gardai for questioning afaik.

bk · 01-11-2018 11:14am

Stephen15 wrote: »

The Airport and harbour police forces are tiny with limited ability to investigate crime. Also they have been around quite a while I think the Dun Laoghaire harbour police for example date back to 1836 making them the oldest uniformed force in the state. While the airport and port police forces have the power of arrest they then have to hand suspects over to the Gardai for questioning afaik.

I know all that, the point is to give them as examples of organisations that also have all those overheads and costs. If a relatively tiny Harbour and Airport Police can exist, then there is certainly no reason that a larger Transport Police can't exist.

BTW you mentioned a transport police needing, "commisoner, detectives, sergeants and inspectors", with the exception of a commissioner, all those others would be needed anyway even if they were a separate division within the Gardai.

The only real extra cost would maybe be IT and HR and if you wanted you could share those with the Gardai, while keeping everything else separate. Many county councils do that throughout the country.

I think people are greatly overestimating how much it would cost as a separate division.

Even if it was a division within the Gardai, you'd still want them to hire extra Gardai/Transport Police rather then taking from other divisions. You'd still want to open a new police station at/nearby Hueston. You still want to train them up in the specifics of working around rail. You'd still need detectives, sergeants and inspectors. All those costs would still be the same either way.

The only question would it be more effective if it was independent or not.

Stephen15 · 01-11-2018 10:14pm

bk wrote: »

I know all that, the point is to give them as examples of organisations that also have all those overheads and costs. If a relatively tiny Harbour and Airport Police can exist, then there is certainly no reason that a larger Transport Police can't exist.

BTW you mentioned a transport police needing, "commisoner, detectives, sergeants and inspectors", with the exception of a commissioner, all those others would be needed anyway even if they were a separate division within the Gardai.

The only real extra cost would maybe be IT and HR and if you wanted you could share those with the Gardai, while keeping everything else separate. Many county councils do that throughout the country.

I think people are greatly overestimating how much it would cost as a separate division.

Even if it was a division within the Gardai, you'd still want them to hire extra Gardai/Transport Police rather then taking from other divisions. You'd still want to open a new police station at/nearby Hueston. You still want to train them up in the specifics of working around rail. You'd still need detectives, sergeants and inspectors. All those costs would still be the same either way.

The only question would it be more effective if it was independent or not.

You'd need Sergeants alright and perhaps some Superintendents for the force but I doubt you'd need detectives and inspectors as these roles could be shared with regular Gardai.

No reason why you couldn't assign a mixture of serving Gardai and ones fresh out of Templemore to a transport police unit with extra training for rail. I don't think it would really make a huge difference if it was independent but I think but I think a Garda unit would be more cost effective and would work in the same way if done right. A Garda unit may have better public relations than a new police force too.

Also a with a new police force you'd mostly have to train up all new officers bar ones who moved from AGS, the PSNI and ones who were merged in from the harbour/airport police forces. You'd need a new training centre whereas with a Garda unit it could all be done in Templemore and on IE property.

prinzeugen · 01-11-2018 11:05pm

In the UK BTP cadets train alongside other police cadets in whatever police force college is local. They then undergo extra training (PTS etc).

For example, the Scottish Police College in Tullyalan trains all officers for Police Scotland and and BTP officers that will be based in Scotland.

If the same were to be applied here, any ITP officer would train to the same standard as a Garda in Templemore first.

Carawaystick · 03-11-2018 2:20am

If we had transport police they might focus on the real issues, like that bus driver convicted last week for killing a cyclist( but not for manslaughter because thats too much responsibility to heap on a person driving a multi tonne vehicle into a defenceless person)

Every day I cycle in Dublin, I see bus and coach drivers driving in mandatory cycle lanes
When I used to work near the Swan on Aungier st. Dublin, I saw a bus driver go through red lights every other day
Irish rail boast about the number of fare dodgers they get but never mention any convictions or even prosecutions for those drivers who crash into bridges

Stephen15 · 03-11-2018 2:30am

Carawaystick wrote: »

If we had transport police they might focus on the real issues, like that bus driver convicted last week for killing a cyclist( but not for manslaughter because thats too much responsibility to heap on a person driving a multi tonne vehicle into a defenceless person)

Every day I cycle in Dublin, I see bus and coach drivers driving in mandatory cycle lanes
When I used to work near the Swan on Aungier st. Dublin, I saw a bus driver go through red lights every other day
Irish rail boast about the number of fare dodgers they get but never mention any convictions or even prosecutions for those drivers who crash into bridges

Had has a transport police got to do with cyclists and bus drivers. Transport police forces or police units like we are talking about here typically only police rail infrastructure such as stations, trains and track while road is usually governed by traffic police ie the Garda Traffic Corps.

prinzeugen · 03-11-2018 3:24am

Carawaystick wrote: »

If we had transport police they might focus on the real issues, like that bus driver convicted last week for killing a cyclist( but not for manslaughter because thats too much responsibility to heap on a person driving a multi tonne vehicle into a defenceless person)

Every day I cycle in Dublin, I see bus and coach drivers driving in mandatory cycle lanes
When I used to work near the Swan on Aungier st. Dublin, I saw a bus driver go through red lights every other day
Irish rail boast about the number of fare dodgers they get but never mention any convictions or even prosecutions for those drivers who crash into bridges

They are traffic issues not transport. Google the British Transport Police.

This is what we are talking about. An Irish equivalent. Cyclists need not be concerned.

Cyclists are as thick as car drivers. I hate RT but here is a link of a cyclist breaking a red and audible alarms at a LC in the UK.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r2BQFpp8P0s

This person was lucky. If they were not, there could be 1000+ body parts spread over a 1-3 mile stretch.

And the transport police would need to find every last bit.

Government considering dedicated Transport Police

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