US Presidential Election 2020

pixelburp · 25-10-2020 1:43pm

the purple tin wrote: »

The more centrist and moderate elements of the Rep and Dem parties need to break away and form two new parties I think, taking the moderate voters with them.

But it's not as simple as that, the two party system is so engrained, systemically and culturally, it's not so easy that a 3rd party could operate within that aggressive duopoly. If it were it would have happened already. This is why the Democrats are so riven by internal fighting ATM really, the necessity of picking one of two meaning left wing politicians like AOC or Sanders are butting against the centrist players such as Pelosi.

dinorebel · 25-10-2020 1:44pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Trump voted in Florida, in person, today. And sure enough is still trying to undermine and cast doubts on the validity of postal /distance voting with his remarks to journalists...

“... a very secure vote. Much more secure than when you send in a ballot, I can tell you that”

Had he not already said he mailed in his vote:rolleyes:

marno21 · 25-10-2020 1:45pm

pixelburp wrote: »

But it's not as simple as that, the two party system is so engrained, systemically and culturally, it's not so easy that a 3rd party could operate within that aggressive duopoly. If it were it would have happened already. This is why the Democrats are so riven by internal fighting ATM really, the necessity of picking one of two meaning left wing politicians like AOC or Sanders are butting against the centrist players such as Pelosi.

Another case in point being New York's 16th where 16 term incumbent and Chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee Eliot Engel was primaried by a Sanders/AOC endorsed challenger.

the purple tin · 25-10-2020 1:47pm

pixelburp wrote: »

But it's not as simple as that, the two party system is so engrained, systemically and culturally, it's not so easy that a 3rd party could operate within that aggressive duopoly. If it were it would have happened already. This is why the Democrats are so riven by internal fighting ATM really, the necessity of picking one of two meaning left wing politicians like AOC or Sanders are butting against the centrist players such as Pelosi.

Give it a go sure. If it fails, it fails. They need something radically different. Anything is better than what they have at the minute: extremists have taken the reins of both parties.

VinLieger · 25-10-2020 1:52pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Give it a go sure. If it fails, it fails. They need something radically different. Anything is better than what they have at the minute: extremists have taken the reins of both parties.

The real problem is they are using first past the post voting which will always eventually reduce the ultimate choices down to 2 parties.

Its an incredibly poor system of voting, but its not really discussed in the states as people only acknowledge the 2 party system as being the problem when its really just a symptom of how bad FPtP is.

It will never be changed though as it would lead to the complete disintegration of both parties and they are the only ones who can change it.

briany · 25-10-2020 1:54pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Give it a go sure. If it fails, it fails. They need something radically different. Anything is better than what they have at the minute: extremists have taken the reins of both parties.

The Democrats and Republicans would probably do well for themselves not to go too far down the current route of partisanship. They will unwittingly p*ss off enough of America that a new party will form out of the disaffected.

paul71 · 25-10-2020 2:03pm

briany wrote: »

The Democrats and Republicans would probably do well for themselves not to go too far down the current route of partisanship. They will unwittingly p*ss off enough of America that a new party will form out of the disaffected.

To be absolutely honest after watching the ****show America has become in the last decade (perhaps longer) that is probably what they need. Move away from an outdated presidency which at stage is a bought office with a multi billion dollar price tag, and to a real democracy with a Multiparty parliament.

Tell me how · 25-10-2020 2:11pm

paul71 wrote: »

To be absolutely honest after watching the ****show America has become in the last decade (perhaps longer) that is probably what they need. Move away from an outdated presidency which at stage is a bought office with a multi billion dollar price tag, and to a real democracy with a Multiparty parliament.

There are over 1,000 applicants for the office of President in this election.
America is too big a country to see the natural emergence of a cohesive party or parties on a national scale and the way money controls campaigning and therefore awareness and therefore votes, neither the Dem's or Republicans are going to allow a party to grow cohesively.

Maybe if someone with the profile like AOC, or Sanders broke out of the Democrats and received massive funding support from a wealthy philantropist (we're talking billions of dollars) they could grow a regional party with enough of a base to get a structure in place and then take that nationally but I think that would be a 10-30 year project and remember Sanders came in to the Democrats because he saw what was happening on the outside of the big 2.

Unfortunately, as with most significant political upheavals, conflict can be a massive instigator of change and I wouldn't be surprised if the same was the case here again.

paul71 · 25-10-2020 2:16pm

Tell me how wrote: »

There are over 1,000 applicants for the office of President in this election.
America is too big a country to see the natural emergence of a cohesive party or parties on a national scale and the way money controls campaigning and therefore awareness and therefore votes, neither the Dem's or Republicans are going to allow a party to grow cohesively.

Maybe if someone with the profile like AOC, or Sanders broke out of the Democrats and received massive funding support from a wealthy philantropist (we're talking billions of dollars) they could grow a regional party with enough of a base to get a structure in place and then take that nationally but I think that would be a 10-30 year project and remember Sanders came in to the Democrats because he saw what was happening on the outside of the big 2.

Unfortunately, as with most significant political upheavals, conflict can be a massive instigator of change and if I wouldn't be surprised if the same was the case here again.

Unfortunately,

And only the 2 richest fundraisers bought and paid for by the richest in Society ever get to be presented to the public for election for a position that has far too much power for 1 person. Its a broken system.

The republican party needs to break too, the rabid right wing is in control and you no longer get McCains or Regans.

Rjd2 · 25-10-2020 3:20pm

paul71 wrote: »

And only the 2 richest fundraisers bought and paid for by the richest in Society ever get to be presented to the public for election for a position that has far too much power for 1 person. Its a broken system.

The republican party needs to break too, the rabid right wing is in control and you no longer get McCains or Regans.

Mc Cain was an evil war monger who until he was dying was demanding men go fight and die in forever wars.

Regan also was a warmonger who has blood on his hands on how he handled Aids and his horrific economic policies which were so influential lead to widening the gap in society between the rich and poor.

I really wish people would stop holding these 2 evil men up as some sort of aspiration for any party.

Rjd2 · 25-10-2020 3:26pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Give it a go sure. If it fails, it fails. They need something radically different. Anything is better than what they have at the minute: extremists have taken the reins of both parties.

Extremists have not taken control of the democrat party, the Sanders wing while loud is not that important. The corporate Dems still have total control party of the party, Pelosi is in charge of the house and Biden will win the presidency.

The likes of Omar, AOC are normal centre left politicians who want to drag the party somewhat to the left.

The bigger concern for the Dems is how they are flirting with suburban republican voters , the type of people who were content to vote GOP their whole lives despite how cruel their policies were on the poor, but are only leaving now because they find Trump crude.

pixelburp · 25-10-2020 3:40pm

the purple tin wrote: »

Give it a go sure. If it fails, it fails. They need something radically different. Anything is better than what they have at the minute: extremists have taken the reins of both parties.

But if it fails then bang goes any political career. Look at AOC: would she have got where she has, had she not swallowed her presumed distaste toward the corporate democrats? In Ireland she'd be a boilerplate, left of centre politician but in the US is a wild card and outrageous socialist hated by its core. No way she'd have gained the traction she did without Democratic party prominence though, needing to pick a side

Rjd2 · 25-10-2020 4:49pm

pixelburp wrote: »

But if it fails then bang goes any political career. Look at AOC: would she have got where she has, had she not swallowed her presumed distaste toward the corporate democrats? In Ireland she'd be a boilerplate, left of centre politician but in the US is a wild card and outrageous socialist hated by its core. No way she'd have gained the traction she did without Democratic party prominence though, needing to pick a side

I think she has said years ago ideally her and Biden would not be in same party.

However she is sensible enough to know its join the Dems and try to fight for change or moan online for retweets and obviously went with option a.

In a perfect/less awful world, the Greens and the libertarian party would have more power to give voters more options but neither do and it does not look like changing anytime soon.

The "centre" aka the Neo-con Zombie Reganism people will probably take the party back once Trump loses and obviously the corporate Dems if they do a clean sweep everywhere will have firm control over their party and to be fair when you win elections that's what happens.:D

The centre most certainly will hold in American politics.

TomOnBoard · 25-10-2020 5:57pm

Better Hang on to your Hat this week! As we head into the home straight, I'm expecting a wall of misinformation and lies to be unleashed in a last ditch attempt to get Trump over the line! He seems to have an uphill climb according to almost all sensible polls, and I'm seeing the 'sentiment analysis' systems adding to Biden's lead based on recent social media activity. Texas went marginally Blue for Biden in the last day or so, although its still on a knife-edge. I'm expecting a wipe-out of Trump's hold on Florida, as Seniors are turning against him in their droves. SO, the pre- and post- election shennanigans in Florida ought to be record- breaking as ever- more desperate voter suppression methods are called into play.

I'm expecting a ton of totally unverified (and indeed unverifiable) "Breaking News" reports on all manner of topics including new-found cures and now-available Covid vaccines, Hunter Biden drug-fuelled 'kompromat', Joe Biden 'Chyna' tangles as well as 'October Surprises' I can't even imagine.

Thankfully, such final week 'revelations' will have less of an effect on election outcomes, as so many votes are already in the box, and can no longer be changed. I foresee a lot of last-minute activity in the courts, aimed at disenfranchising minority voters and undermining postal and drop-in ballots, as well as legal manoeuverings to support interference in vote counting and results announcements.

Buckle Up, and believe nothing unless it's supported by iron-clad evidence. And buy the popcorn for the Count!

droidus · 25-10-2020 6:08pm

Nearly 60 million votes cast now. 80% of the 2016 total in Texas. The indicators are there for all who chose to see them.

rossie1977 · 25-10-2020 6:52pm

the purple tin wrote: »

The more centrist and moderate elements of the Rep and Dem parties need to break away and form two new parties I think, taking the moderate voters with them.

Moderate and centrist elements of the Republican party?

Have you seen the Republican voting record last decade?

Brian? · 25-10-2020 6:57pm

the purple tin wrote: »

The more centrist and moderate elements of the Rep and Dem parties need to break away and form two new parties I think, taking the moderate voters with them.

The entire Dem party are moderates, there are no extremists in the party that I'm aware of. Even the likes of AOC is a pretty moderate social democrat.

VinLieger · 25-10-2020 7:25pm

Brian? wrote: »

The entire Dem party are moderates, there are no extremists in the party that I'm aware of. Even the likes of AOC is a pretty moderate social democrat.

There may be no extremists similar to the republicans but theres a pretty wide range of views in the democrats so that in any other country that didnt have FPtP it would be at least 2 if not 3 separate parties

Igotadose · 25-10-2020 11:52pm

Hey, Trump! Your boss sez cut the Hunter Biden crap! https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN27A0TA?__twitter_impression=true

O'Neill · 26-10-2020 12:31am

Brian? wrote: »

The entire Dem party are moderates, there are no extremists in the party that I'm aware of. Even the likes of AOC is a pretty moderate social democrat.

Yes. A certain percentage of the YouTube world view her as a 'wannabe tyrant' or 'communist dictator'......:rolleyes:

BonnieSituation · 26-10-2020 2:20am

You can even see the uptick in anti left wing ranting in Ireland as well from precisely the people who would benefit most from social democracy.

The CA thread on the election the other night was an absolute car crash and a microcosm of political engagement these days. The only saving grace for Ireland is their laziness and our voting system.

---

The 60Minutes episode with all 4 candidates is on CBS now.

I have the CBS app on my Roku, so it should be easily found on other players and the interwebs.

Itssoeasy · 26-10-2020 2:32am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You can even see the uptick in anti left wing ranting in Ireland as well from precisely the people who would benefit most from social democracy.

The CA thread on the election the other night was an absolute car crash and a microcosm of political engagement these days. The only saving grace for Ireland is their laziness and our voting system.

---

The 60Minutes episode with all 4 candidates is on CBS now.

I have the CBS app on my Roku, so it should be easily found on other players and the interwebs.

Download the podcast which is what I do. Great to wake up to on a Monday. It’s routinely great stuff.

BonnieSituation · 26-10-2020 2:41am

Monday is spent these days dealing with my post NFL hangover. Waking up to 60minutes is not gonna be part of the curer just yet.

Though, this week I might change that. Cheers.

EDIT: I watched the whole programme. Wow. It's frankly amazing that Trump has any supporters at all when you see that and what he's up against in Biden and Harris.

It genuinely is a must watch for everyone.

TomOnBoard · 26-10-2020 8:23am

Igotadose wrote: »

Hey, Trump! Your boss sez cut the Hunter Biden crap! https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN27A0TA?__twitter_impression=true

Putin has seen that the 'useful idiot' Manchurian Candidate can't be rescued and is cutting his strings. Russia sees that Biden will be the next POTUS and is trying to curry favour by exposing the Giuliani/Bannon and NY Post BS for what it is- a crass attempt to use the alleged antics of a sadly drug- addicted son to inculpate a loving father just because he cares about his son and didn't ever cut him loose when the son was at his lowest.

Any one of the Trump children would happily trade their father for one who cares like Joe!

Putin's distancing comes just days after Netanyahu refused to respond to Trump's crass attempt to belittle Biden at that stupid Israel/Sudan BS 'peace deal' announcement in the Oval last week.

Trump's goose is cooked! He's a busted flush! All the leeches and parasites that have clung to him like pond scum are going to be falling away now. Maybe actually, there is a God!

everlast75 · 26-10-2020 8:46am

stefanovich wrote: »

$400 billion worldwide in 2018 in fossil fuel subsidies. Under 200 billion for renewables. None of these alternatives can scale up to the level we need. And the amount of subsidies needed to make them viable as a percentage of energy they produce is significantly more.

Renewables are more expensive and not scalable. A dead end.

I have a sneaky feeling that if Trump was supportive of renewable enery, then so would you...

everlast75 · 26-10-2020 8:58am

Just in case anyone missed it, this is how the 60 mins interview ended

https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1320519094295240712?s=19

60 minutes has a massive audience, especially amongst seniors and I can only speculate how poorly this will resonate with them. Perhaps they may feel bad for him, like they do with their 4 year old grandson who throws a strop.

"Petulant, whiny and a temper tantrum. Awww... It's just like having little Timmy here for a sleep over when he's tired and won't go for his nap".

This can't be a good look for him.

On a side now, how anyone can consider this bloke an alpha male or a tough guy is absolutely and utterly beyond me.

ancapailldorcha · 26-10-2020 9:26am

Please do not drag the thread off topic. Posts deleted.

Gunmonkey · 26-10-2020 11:05am

everlast75 wrote: »

Just in case anyone missed it, this is how the 60 mins interview ended

https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1320519094295240712?s=19

60 minutes has a massive audience, especially amongst seniors and I can only speculate how poorly this will resonate with them. Perhaps they may feel bad for him, like they do with their 4 year old grandson who throws a strop.

"Petulant, whiny and a temper tantrum. Awww... It's just like having little Timmy here for a sleep over when he's tired and won't go for his nap".

This can't be a good look for him.

On a side now, how anyone can consider this bloke an alpha male or a tough guy is absolutely and utterly beyond me.

Jesus. My sister has been staying here with my 8 month old niece....and Ive seen less tantrums from her in several months than in those 2 minutes!

What a cretinous series of lines from a colossal child.

Itssoeasy · 26-10-2020 11:48am

I listened to president trump and Vice President pence on 60 minutes from last night and pence is more dangerous than trump in that he is able to dress up horrible policies and their response to the pandemic in a calm way and it sounds a considered response. Trump has none of that “skill” pence has and that was embarrassing to listen to. He’s turned the 2016 plan of amplifying others perceived grievances into the 2020 of his pity party and how mean and unfair everyone is to him. Is he 74 or 7.4 years old ?

everlast75 · 26-10-2020 11:58am

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I listened to president trump and Vice President pence on 60 minutes from last night and pence is more dangerous than trump in that he is able to dress up horrible policies and their response to the pandemic in a calm way and it sounds a considered response. Trump has none of that “skill” pence has and that was embarrassing to listen to. He’s turned the 2016 plan of amplifying others perceived grievances into the 2020 of his pity party and how mean and unfair everyone is to him. Is he 74 or 7.4 years old ?

Thankfully Pence has all the charisma of a wet sock. He has none of the bombastic car crash ridiculousness of Trump so cannot host rallies which for a limited time had a car crash type appeal.

He is a snakey politician, no doubt, but there's a reason why he held his own and could not do better til Trump tagged him along to muster evangelical support.

If Trump/Pence lose in November, he will slink back from whence he came IMHO.

US Presidential Election 2020

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