Serious Problem with aggressive housemate

SamuelFox · 29-10-2009 1:48pm #1

I’ve got involved in a pretty serious dispute with my housemate and I’d love if there was someone here who could advise me. I know that disputes between tenants are ten-a-penny but this is an incident that has really shook me and I really want to get it sorted.

I live with a girl (mid 30s) and she’s pretty highly strung, but until now we’ve got on grand. However on Monday night she absolutely flipped at me and started shouting. She seemed out of sorts when she had first came in and while I was annoyed at her shouting at me I wanted to give her a chance to cool down so we could discuss it rationally. I finished up what I was doing (about 10 mins) and knocked on her door where I got a torrent of abuse – really aggressive, full on stuff. I have to say here that I am 5’10 and reasonably big, and she is very petite, but I was still shook by the intensity and aggression.

Next day I texted her to see if we could sit down and discuss it and it turned into a litany of insults by text. The upshot of it is that she isn’t interested in sorting it out and seems happy to live in this hostile environment she has created.

I spoke to the landlord and while he says it is an internal matter we need to sort out, he has agreed to facilitate a discussion. Saying that, he was clear that really his options are limited, and doesn’t know if eviction is possible. I ran the situation by Threshold, and they said that firstly I should make a report to the Guards as her texts had accused me of bullying her and cornering her, and if it progresses any more a serious allegation might be made; and additionally ask the Landlord to issue an anti-social behaviour notice. Personally I don’t feel that the Guards should be involved but it underlines how serious this thing has escalated into.

If there is anyone who can advise me on what I can do I’d be very grateful! To be honest, I don’t see the shared tenancy working out any more and as she is the newest tenant, pays the least rent and has already driven another tenant out I feel it is she that should go, nevertheless I’m stuck for what to do so any advice would be great.

AARRRGH · 29-10-2009 2:00pm

Could you tell us why she is so angry with you?

SamuelFox · 29-10-2009 2:28pm

What sparked the row was the bins – it was a long weekend and both of us had been away with the other girl staying in the flat to move her stuff out. The bins hadn’t been emptied (it was full, not overflowing) and the other tenant had a load of rubbish bags left at the foot of the stairs. That’s what sparked the row, although why it was directed at me when I was cleaning when she arrived into the flat is a mystery.

marmalade3 · 29-10-2009 2:50pm

Hmm ... sounds like a bit of an over-reaction to a bin issue IMO. I also think going to the gardai is an over-reaction, however I understand why, when you felt so intimidated, you would consider this.

E + R = O (event + response to that event = outcome)

My advice is to behave well in all circumstances and keep records to protect yourself.

Good luck.

convert · 29-10-2009 4:38pm

Living with housemates like that is a real hassle and can be really stressful, especially when there's a constant air of tension or hostility in the house as a restult. It can make for an unpleasant place to live.

Probably the best thing to do is to keep a record of everything that happens, what's said, etc. and keeping all the text messages, etc. that you've received from her (plus the ones that you've sent to her). Probably best not to text her again, as it could lead her to say you're bullying her by sending her texts. Once somebody accuses you of bullying, it's very hard to prove otherwise, even if you haven't done anything wrong. Accusations of bullying are very common defence mechanisms used by people when they feel they can't win in a situation or if they feel insecure. Be polite if you meet her in the house, but don't engage in any conversation/behaviour that could provide her with an opportunity to accuse you of harassment/bullying, etc.

It's great that your landlord is willing to mediate between you. Ask him to arrange a meeting between the two of you and then take it from there, asking her what the issue is, what can be done to rectify it, and arrange steps that can be taken to sort it out. As you said, going to the guards isn't really an ideal solution and will probably cause much more hassle than it's worth.

Is the housemate in question still paying her portion of the bills and rent? If not, then that might be grounds for eviction, but if she is paying then it's a very difficult situation.

Best of luck

antoinolachtnai · 29-10-2009 11:59pm

Are you all joint tenants in this property on a single lease? Or are some of you licensees (i.e., not named on the lease)?

At the end of the day, you will have to find a way to resolve this between yourselves, all the tenants of the house. Otherwise you will have to find a way to dissolve the tenancy and move on.

SamuelFox · 31-10-2009 3:03pm

Hi guys,

We all have separate leases with the landlord, and we look after bills collectively. I handle ESB, she does NTL.

In terms of the hassle in the house, I got a text off her on Thurs saying she is moving out and would start looking for a new place. We had a chat, as she said she wanted to part as friends. In the course of the discussion we had another row over cleanliness (not an issue before this) and over her using terms like bullying, intimidation etc. However, we agreed to part as friends and keep things civil in the interim.

I rang the Landlord on Friday to tell him she was moving and we wouldn’t need him to mediate. He told me that she had rang him to say she wasn’t moving, or not at least before Christmas. I was surprised as this was a total change from the night before.

I rang her to see the story and her deal was “well we agreed to be civil, you’re the one with the problem now” and also said it would cost her money to move. Couple of hours later the landlord rang me to say she had again rang him to “stop her evicting her as she had no-where to go.” Needless to say this is complete BS as her being evicted was never on the cards, especially after the chat we’d had.

I appreciate the advice so far and I realise now that there is no easy solution, and I don’t want to move myself if I can help it at all.

As regards the advice to keep records etc I’ll certainly do that. The biggest worry I have, as expressed by the chap from Threshold, is that the allegations will get serious, but I suppose the fact that I have made a fuss at this stage will be some protection.

Thanks again!

Diarmuid · 31-10-2009 4:28pm

Just move out. If she stays and is as highly strung as you say she is, something like this will happen again. Considering how favourable the rental market is at the moment, why not move?

convert · 31-10-2009 5:24pm

From what you've written, it seems that your housemate is a little volatile and this, unfortunately, will only get worse with time, and become extremely unpleasant and uncomfortable for all concerned.

I know it's not something you want to do, but if feasible, and you can afford it, I would consider moving out, if you can find suitable alternative accommodation. I lived in a similar situation and unfortunately I couldn't afford to move and was stuck with an extremely difficult and volatile housemate. It became exceptionally unpleasant for all housemates and there was a constantly awful atmosphere in the house. It even got worse as they were moving out, with the said housemate publicly screaming at another housemate in the front garden. If at all possible, I would really think about moving out to avoid any stress and hassle, in addition to potentially serious accusations in the future.

Best of luck with whatever you decide

eth0_ · 01-11-2009 9:31pm

This sounds a bit familiar to me. I moved in with a stranger last November and she was fine at the start but then quit her job citing bullying and hit in her room for a week - I sh*t you not, she would only come out of her room after i'd gone to bed, was in the living room with the door shut, or if i'd gone out. At one stage I was coming out of my bedroom when she came in the front door and I said "Hi Agnes :-) " and she walked past me as if I wasn't there. Next morning I ran into our downstairs neighbour and he said she had come down and banged on their front door, and accused him of abusing his son (the kid was autistic and screamed quite a lot).

Her behaviour kept swinging from normal to totally nuts - at one point I received a phone call from our letting agent saying they were missing over £700 rent from us, but flatmate blamed it on the girl who'd been in my room before I moved in but she later admitted she hadn't paid her rent in three months and we had actually received an EVICTION LETTER which she hid!

After all that, I gave notice to move out. I told the flatmate I was moving because I couldn't afford to live there anymore. A few days later the letting agent wrote to us saying the landlord wanted her out given all the "problems" she'd caused. She completely turned on me and accused me of having her evicted (I mean why on earth would I do that when *I* was moving out anyway?), and became really malevolent towards me - she'd come right up into my face and tell me I was evil and I would go to hell for what I had done to her. She sent me really bizarre emails asking if I wouldn't mind sitting down and telling her how it feels to be "pure evil" etc etc... I ended up moving out 2 weeks before I was due to move out because I was afraid to be in the flat with her - for the last couple of days I was commuting from my friends house 50 miles away into work every day. When another friend of mine gave me a hand moving out, crazy flatmate kept coming into my bedroom screaming a load of bizarre stuff - it was terrifying.

I recently found out she ended up moving in with 5 others, and shortly after tried to kill herself, was sectioned and kept in hospital for nearly 2 months. I dread to think what could have happened if i'd stayed in that flat with her.

It sounds to be like the OP's flatmate could have similar issues. After that experience I will *never* move in with strangers again. You really have no way of knowing who you're living with, what their background is etc..

the_syco · 02-11-2009 12:52am

SamuelFox wrote: »

Needless to say this is complete BS as her being evicted was never on the cards, especially after the chat we’d had.

convert wrote: »

in addition to potentially serious accusations in the future.

I second this. Remember: if she likes to call wolf, you'd wonder what she'd cry wolf about. I'm taking you're a dude, so her crying wolf would worry me, if I were you

My advice: get the f**k out ASAP. Doesn't sound like she's all that right in the head.

SamuelFox · 03-11-2009 3:01pm

Guys, thanks very much for the advice. We had the landlord mediating last night, or at least sitting there while we argued. She accused me of following her into her room, and abusing her on the phone, which I shot down, so I know what ye say about crying wolf. TBH I have a feeling she is going to move, but if thats the case I'll have to look myself. I might be over-optimistic but she didn't seem too worried about who moves into an empty room we have so maybe she's not here long term. Thanks again!

AARRRGH · 03-11-2009 3:24pm

SamuelFox wrote: »

Guys, thanks very much for the advice. We had the landlord mediating last night, or at least sitting there while we argued. She accused me of following her into her room, and abusing her on the phone, which I shot down, so I know what ye say about crying wolf. TBH I have a feeling she is going to move, but if thats the case I'll have to look myself. I might be over-optimistic but she didn't seem too worried about who moves into an empty room we have so maybe she's not here long term. Thanks again!

I know on principle you probably feel she should be the one who has to move out, but when you look at the bigger picture, your happiness is more important.

With the way the rental market is at the moment, you'll probably find a nicer place for less money, and most importantly, you'd have the psycho out of your life.

Zamboni · 03-11-2009 3:42pm

What Diarmuid and AARRRGH said

+1

I cannot stand neurotic muppets.

analbumcover · 03-11-2009 3:57pm

Well having been in the same exact situation I suggest you stay away from her all together. Right now, her behavior is making the living situation untenable so it's just as well she's moving out.

All I can do is sympathize with you... I clearly remember what this was like, or me it was like I couldn't be comfortable in my own home and I dreaded her presence.

This just outlines how important it is to be compatible with the person you live with... landlords couldn't care less, they'll throw any combination of people together just as long as they get paid.

The people who you spend your time with, at home, at work have a major impact on your wellbeing and psyche.

How I coped with the situation I went through was by staying away from the apartment as much as possible until she moved out. I would go surf the net on my laptop in the library, hang out with friends, I even went to meetup.com and got involved in the groups there... but long story short I stayed well away from home.

SamuelFox · 03-11-2009 4:14pm

analbumcover wrote: »

Well having been in the same exact situation I suggest you stay away from her all together. Right now, her behavior is making the living situation untenable so it's just as well she's moving out.

Thats the problem - she says she won't be moving until well after Christmas, its just a gut feeling of mine that she will go. I'm going to wait and see but I'm keeping an eye out for a new place too.

analbumcover · 03-11-2009 4:35pm

SamuelFox wrote: »

Thats the problem - she says she won't be moving until well after Christmas, its just a gut feeling of mine that she will go. I'm going to wait and see but I'm keeping an eye out for a new place too.

Okay, well in that case I would send a registered letter to the landlord giving a detailed account of what has taken place and that as a result of her behavior the living situation has become untenable and explain the impact her behavior has had on you. You said she sent you insulting txt messages, yes? Transcribe them word for in quotes in the letter, it sounds like her behavior is very anti-social. Sending a registered letter has an impact, it means you're serious. Give him a couple of days to reply either in writing or in person, and if the situation is still not resolved then I highly suggest you take this matter to Threshold and the PRTB. These are conflict resolution services, and this sure is a conflict!

Lastly, the letter serves as documentation if you leave abruptly and move to another apartment. No one can expect you to keep on living with a psycho for weeks on end. Please note that if you leave, and the landlord has your deposit, you won't have much hope of getting it back... unless you use it as the last month's rent.

SamuelFox · 03-11-2009 5:15pm

I've had the landlord into mediate already, to be honest he dosen't seem to care. I've offered to show him the messages and he's declined. When he was round last night he said he dosen't feel any anti-social behavior occured, which is perceptive of him given that he hasn't got the full story yet. Threshold, on the other hand, advised me to make a statement to the Guards. The landlord want's his rent and an easy life and thats it. He also said that if more problems arise he will ask for an empty flat, which I didn't appreciate.

In regard to rent I've paid for this month (Nov) and he has another month as a deposit, but if there is hassle I'll just use the deposit as last months rent. I don't like doing that but seems this desire for a quiet life is catching!

Thanks again!

bangersandmash · 03-11-2009 5:28pm

SamuelFox wrote: »

I've had the landlord into mediate already, to be honest he dosen't seem to care. I've offered to show him the messages and he's declined. When he was round last night he said he dosen't feel any anti-social behavior occured, which is perceptive of him given that he hasn't got the full story yet. Threshold, on the other hand, advised me to make a statement to the Guards. The landlord want's his rent and an easy life and thats it. He also said that if more problems arise he will ask for an empty flat, which I didn't appreciate.

To be honest I can see it from the landlord's perspective. Even good landlords will not want to get involved in personal disputes between tenants unless there is an extreme need. It's a slippery slope - some tenants would be happy to call their landlord every time somebody else didn't put the bins out. Your case is obviously more serious and I do sympathise with your situation. But I think he's been accommodating even offering to mediate between you two.

On principle this fruitcake should move out. In reality I'd agree with Diarmuid and AARRRGH. At best the next few months at home will be unpleasant. At worst she could make some serious allegations against you. You may be rational, but she isn't. And the rational thing to do in this case is to get away asap.

eth0_ · 03-11-2009 7:27pm

Trust me - get out of there ASAP. She's either mentally ill or just an extremely vindictive person. And if she's accused you of following her into her room(!) what will her next accusation be?

Do you have a girlfriend or mate who could stay over a lot in case she accuses you of something you'd have a witness?

the_syco · 03-11-2009 10:37pm

SamuelFox wrote: »

She accused me of following her into her room, and abusing her on the phone, which I shot down, so I know what ye say about crying wolf.

If she likes to cry wolf, be aware that if she cries rape wolf again, you may get into some serious sh|t. You tell the Gardai about the txts F**KING NOW, and you may have some proof that she's been like this for some time.

SamuelFox wrote: »

He also said that if more problems arise he will ask for an empty flat, which I didn't appreciate.

That's actually not as bad as it sounds. If he wants you out, he'll have to give you your deposit back. If you move out now, he doesn't really have to give it to you.

analbumcover · 04-11-2009 6:18pm

SamuelFox wrote: »

I've had the landlord into mediate already, to be honest he dosen't seem to care. I've offered to show him the messages and he's declined. When he was round last night he said he dosen't feel any anti-social behavior occured, which is perceptive of him given that he hasn't got the full story yet. Threshold, on the other hand, advised me to make a statement to the Guards. The landlord want's his rent and an easy life and thats it. He also said that if more problems arise he will ask for an empty flat, which I didn't appreciate.

In regard to rent I've paid for this month (Nov) and he has another month as a deposit, but if there is hassle I'll just use the deposit as last months rent. I don't like doing that but seems this desire for a quiet life is catching!

Thanks again!

Sounds like the landlord wants all the rewards without doing any of the work, this is the benefit of sending a registered letter. It communicates that you mean business and will force him into action and in the very least you will have doccumented what has gone on should he or this girl try to turn things around on you.

I would second going to the Guards and get the name of the Garda you speak with to cover your ass.

You need to force this landlord into action, if he kicks you or the both of you out, you get your deposit back and you're out on December 1st. if you use your deposit as a last months rent you're stuck until January 1st.

cojomo2 · 04-11-2009 6:40pm

analbumcover wrote: »

I would second going to the Guards and get the name of the Garda you speak withto cover your ass.
.

Yes, analbumcover seems to know what hes talking about here.:D

analbumcover · 04-11-2009 6:50pm

cojomo2 wrote: »

Yes, analbumcover seems to know what hes talking about here.:D

It's an album cover not anal bum cover

chalkitdown · 05-11-2009 6:39pm

analbumcover wrote: »

It's an album cover not anal bum cover

lol, I'd never have known.

Serious Problem with aggressive housemate

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