Manager wants me gone

Cilantro2000 · 09-08-2018 9:41am #1

My manager recently told me that he thinks I'm underperforming and doesn't think I'm a right fit for the role. He said "off the record" that it might be a good idea to look for a job elsewhere, otherwise he'll have to go down the HR route. I'm in the job jist over a year, would just like to get other people's thoughts on this.

Mr. Incognito · 09-08-2018 9:42am

Do you feel they are correct?

Cilantro2000 · 09-08-2018 9:46am

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Do you feel they are correct?

Now that he actually discussed what he expects from me I can agree that I wasn't meeting those expectations, but he never had that discussion before, given I passed my probabation period I assumed I was more or less on track. I think I can meet those expecations and am closer to them now since we had our discussion. I'm through to the 2nd round interview somewhere else so hopefully I get an offer as don't fancy playing the pip game.

Wanderer78 · 09-08-2018 9:49am

Unfair dismissal could be an interesting journey in life, but do you really wanna go down that road?

Cilantro2000 · 09-08-2018 9:53am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Unfair dismissal could be an interesting journey in life, but do you really wanna go down that road?

I wouldn't want to go down any road that involves a disruption to my monthly wages as have a mortgage and two kids.

Wanderer78 · 09-08-2018 9:56am

Cilantro2000 wrote:

I wouldn't want to go down any road that involves a disruption to my monthly wages as have a mortgage and two kids.

'increasing worker insecurity' at it's finest! Completely understand where you're coming from, you sound very deflated, I'd imagine you're doing the best you can in all circumstances. Is your manager approachable, are they reasonable?

Cilantro2000 · 09-08-2018 10:01am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

'increasing worker insecurity' at it's finest! Completely understand where you're coming from, you sound very deflated, I'd imagine you're doing the best you can in all circumstances. Is your manager approachable, are they reasonable?

He seems to have made up his mind that I won't be able to meet these expectations, I think I can, but leaning towards just leaving now regardless as damage is done.

Wanderer78 · 09-08-2018 10:04am

Cilantro2000 wrote:

He seems to have made up his mind that I won't be able to meet these expectations, I think I can, but leaning towards just leaving now regardless as damage is done.

There's no harm in looking at your options outside of this business, but don't be pushed over either, doesn't particularly sound like the nicest working environment though

Cocobeans101 · 09-08-2018 10:32am

I think move on. Very demoralising working for someone who won't give you a chance. If you aren't hurting your career by leaving, then I would go.

Best of luck

skallywag · 09-08-2018 10:46am

Your manager has handled this very badly.

Yes, it often happens that a team member may not be meeting expectation, but any competent manager is going to have a sit down with the employee and point this out, before coming to the stage that you are advising them to look elsewhere. I have seen many cases where a team member has taken such criticism in a positive way and acted on it, with some going on to really star in the role.

If your short to mid term future is reporting into this same manager then I would certainly look elsewhere.

punisher5112 · 09-08-2018 10:50am

I would be putting in a complaint to hr and keep records of all correspondence.

Do not let this Wiesel walk all over you.

Have had similar and they have tried to push me out but never succeeded.
I do my job and all I'm asked to do by the way.

Try and see are others under similar pressure or have had a similar experience without name dropping or giving all the details.

gauralordon · 09-08-2018 11:00am

Very sorry to hear this is happening to you. Highly unusual that your employer would let you pass your probation period without pulling you up on things they now feel you're not up to standards on. I worked in HR and it was always drilled into us to monitor probation staff, and extend or get rid in first 6 months if they're not performing. Highly unusual also that your manager would just seemingly casually tell you they're trying to get rid of you and not offer you help, re-training, etc...

Nevertheless, I'd be inclined to now do the bare minimum work wise, look for something new, and try to get out before they let you go. Always better to leave on your terms rather than theirs.

If it really means a lot to you that your manager basically up and told you they're looking to push you out the door, I'd be advising you to weigh up the pros and cons of pursuing a complaint etc. Is the pay off worth the hassle and stress? Do you see yourself working for this company for a substantial amount of time and do you really want to stay knowing they wanted to get rid of you in the first place? It's almost always an unspoken feeling, but if you pursue a complaint, and end up staying on, your employer resents you for the hassle caused by dealing with the complaint. Trust me, I've seen the ugly side of employee-employer relations first hand.

Whatever you decide to do, always keep in mind that this company would replace you in a heartbeat regardless of whether they let you go, or you leave on your own terms.

Wishing you all the best ☺

gozunda · 09-08-2018 11:17am

Firstly your 'manager' for want of a better description is way out of line imo.

The managers behaviour is extremely stupid and is effectively pushing a constructive dismissal type agenda - all against current employment law. By pushing you out - he is also attempting to circumvent having to pay you any monies you would recieve if your employer was to legally lay you off.

The manager has apparently failed to provide any opportunity for improvement via a normal review process.

A question - what is this manager like to work with? And more importantly what is the company like in relation to dealing with workplace issues? This should help you decide what you need to do next.

Whatever you decide to do - The manager needs to be reported for inappropriate behaviour.

If you do leave I would ask for an exit interview - and use that give the company the full details of your managers behaviour and your reason for leaving.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

uck51js9zml2yt · 09-08-2018 11:36am

gozunda wrote: »

Firstly your 'manager' for want of a better description is way out of line imo.

The managers behaviour is extremely stupid and is effectively pushing a constructive dismissal type agenda - all against current employment law. By pushing you out - he is also attempting to circumvent having to pay you any monies you would recieve if your employer was to legally lay you off.

The manager has apparently failed to provide any opportunity for improvement via a normal review process.

A question - what is this manager like to work with? And more importantly what is the company like in relation to dealing with workplace issues? This should help you decide what you need to do next.

Whatever you decide to do - The manager needs to be reported for inappropriate behaviour.

If you do leave I would ask for an exit interview - and use that give the company the full details of your managers behaviour and your reason for leaving.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

He'd have nothing If laid off other than outstanding pay and holidays.

gozunda · 09-08-2018 11:45am

Leanna Calm Scar wrote: »

He'd have nothing If laid off other than outstanding pay and holidays.

Redundancy money if he is being left go as described. Not probably much but all the same the manager seems to want to go down the stupid route and risk a complaint about his behaviour and in a worse case scenario - The matter being investigated and ruled on externally...

Fairly typical bulky boy / head in the sand type of stupid management practices engaged in this country ime

sillysmiles · 09-08-2018 11:45am

Can you call a meeting with you manager and discuss it again - that you've thought about what s/he said and agree that you weren't meeting that standard, but weren't aware that was what was expected but that you are happy to work towards what is expected, and that'd you'd appreciate their feedback on your improved performance. Document what they said the problem was. Document what you've done to resolve the problem. Document the results of your meeting.

In the background, be looking for another role.

OldMrBrennan83 · 09-08-2018 11:47am

Have a look but don't go and make it easy for them unless it suits you 100%. Let then go the HR route and tell them so.

Bandana boy · 09-08-2018 11:50am

How the manager approached it is not good from his companies point of view as it possibly leaves them open to not following proper procedures but in reality he is being open and candid with you .
As such take it as a positive you can leave on your own steam without any bad blood or you can step up your performance to an acceptable level.

Hearing bad news is never nice , particularly in cases like this which will bruise anybodies ego , but dressing up the same conversation in a PIP will cost both parties way more energy.

Pa8301 · 09-08-2018 11:57am

As you're there over a year, the manager will find it pretty hard to get rid of you as long as you don't give him actual proper grounds to start the disciplinary process. I wouldn't give in to your manager too easy if you want to stay there.

martingriff · 09-08-2018 2:20pm

Your managers approach was very stupid and I fell he ran on this solo as if HR or his manager knew about this they would have stopped him. He is hoping you just go so he does not have to go HE route.

If you feel like leaving then do but I would call his bluff and go the HR route. I feel you have an idea that once you go that route you be out no second chances. However in reality I say if they see your making an effort and improving not much will happen. Yes they will monitor for a while. What HR will say to the boss on his discussion well your relationship with him will never be the same

_Brian · 09-08-2018 6:18pm

Speaking as a manager your manager is handling this all wrong.
My fear somis if you try and stick it out they won’t be able to correctly manage the pip either which will just end badly.

Firstly I’d advice start job hunting, always good to have another avenue on the horizon.

Don’t resign, no matter what. You need the regular cash and they owe you procedure even if they are an incompetent bunch.

If you are going down the pip route as I expect you are, remember when agreeing to goals and timelines the idea is you are to perform as an average employee to pass, goals should not be hyped up so you can prove yourself - this is how pips are constructed to manage an employee out - I’ve done this myself.
As part of the pip ask for and get in writing a regular set of reviews where you get feedback and can correct issues well before the end decision date.

Cilantro2000 · 09-08-2018 8:10pm

_Brian wrote: »

Speaking as a manager your manager is handling this all wrong.
My fear somis if you try and stick it out they won’t be able to correctly manage the pip either which will just end badly.

Firstly I’d advice start job hunting, always good to have another avenue on the horizon.

Don’t resign, no matter what. You need the regular cash and they owe you procedure even if they are an incompetent bunch.

If you are going down the pip route as I expect you are, remember when agreeing to goals and timelines the idea is you are to perform as an average employee to pass, goals should not be hyped up so you can prove yourself - this is how pips are constructed to manage an employee out - I’ve done this myself.
As part of the pip ask for and get in writing a regular set of reviews where you get feedback and can correct issues well before the end decision date.

Hopefully I'll have a job offer after my second round interview later in the month. But yes, if it does go down the pip route I will be benchmarking my peers to what's expected in the pip process so they can't impose unrealistic expecations to get me out.

TG1 · 09-08-2018 8:17pm

gozunda wrote: »

Redundancy money if he is being left go as described. Not probably much but all the same the manager seems to want to go down the stupid route and risk a complaint about his behaviour and in a worse case scenario - The matter being investigated and ruled on externally...

Fairly typical bulky boy / head in the sand type of stupid management practices engaged in this country ime

Absolutely not a redundancy situation. Redundancy only occurs if the role is no longer required, not if an individual is being let go for whatever reason but the role is still there.

gozunda · 09-08-2018 11:54pm

TG1 wrote: »

Absolutely not a redundancy situation. Redundancy only occurs if the role is no longer required, not if an individual is being let go for whatever reason but the role is still there.

The point us that the manager has apparently failed to follow due process and therefore cannot let the op 'go for whatever reason'. In asking the OP to leave the manager is attempting to circumvent normal procedure including rights to review pip redundancy (if so required) etc etc

s7ryf3925pivug · 10-08-2018 12:01am

Look for a new job. Quit when you have one. The time and energy you'd spend fighting this would be better spent lining up the best move available.

Cheerful Spring · 10-08-2018 12:33am

Cilantro2000 wrote: »

My manager recently told me that he thinks I'm underperforming and doesn't think I'm a right fit for the role. He said "off the record" that it might be a good idea to look for a job elsewhere, otherwise he'll have to go down the HR route. I'm in the job jist over a year, would just like to get other people's thoughts on this.

Did he only tell you this one time or has he said a few times to you? If it was only one time that blatantly unfair that you were not given a chance. Might you not have been aware you were underperforming?

TG1 · 10-08-2018 4:00am

gozunda wrote: »

The point us that the manager has apparently failed to follow due process and therefore cannot let the op 'go for whatever reason'. In asking the OP to leave the manager is attempting to circumvent normal procedure including rights to review pip redundancy (if so required) etc etc

Be that as it may, it's not right to say he is entitled to more money. He isn't. He may get something if he goes down a legal route but he may not. He may get a compromise pay out if he pushes it with the company, but given all he has is an "off the record conversation" I doubt it. But it's incorrect to set an expectation that he is immediatly entitled to anything other than accrued Al and pay in lieu of notice if he is let go.

Glass fused light · 10-08-2018 7:25am

gozunda wrote: »

The point us that the manager has apparently failed to follow due process and therefore cannot let the op 'go for whatever reason'. In asking the OP to leave the manager is attempting to circumvent normal procedure including rights to review pip redundancy (if so required) etc etc

The manager has not done anything yet which could be classed as failing to follow due process. A single comment would not be classed as bullying or harassment. It may breach under the dignity at work or general HR policy but that would be a disiplinary issue against the manager and of little help to the OP. It clearly shows that the manager is a very poor communicator and I suspect that the job is poorly organised if they waited a year to comment on the OP's ongoing performance.

Irrespective of what happens next to the OP the job will be preformed by someone. Therefore OP has no right to redundancy as the role is not being removed or reorganised.

gozunda wrote: »

A question - what is this manager like to work with? And more importantly what is the company like in relation to dealing with workplace issues? This should help you decide what you need to do next.

This is very good advice.

The manager has said that he will go down the HR route to remove the OP, and did not bother to do reviews so I would say he is a poor manager but good enough to cover his ass using HR. The important thing is not the work but that the manager has decided the OP is not a good fit. The OP can become the best worker in the place but will the manager be happy?

gozunda wrote: »

Whatever you decide to do - The manager needs to be reported for inappropriate behaviour.

If you do leave I would ask for an exit interview - and use that give the company the full details of your managers behaviour and your reason for leaving.

This is good advice in theory, but I prefer to be Christian about it:

Jesus says, “And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, leave that place and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.”

Misguided1 · 10-08-2018 1:06pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

The manager has not done anything yet which could be classed as failing to follow due process. A single comment would not be classed as bullying or harassment. It may breach under the dignity at work or general HR policy but that would be a disiplinary issue against the manager and of little help to the OP. It clearly shows that the manager is a very poor communicator and I suspect that the job is poorly organised if they waited a year to comment on the OP's ongoing performance.

Irrespective of what happens next to the OP the job will be preformed by someone. Therefore OP has no right to redundancy as the role is not being removed or reorganised.

This is very good advice.

The manager has said that he will go down the HR route to remove the OP, and did not bother to do reviews so I would say he is a poor manager but good enough to cover his ass using HR. The important thing is not the work but that the manager has decided the OP is not a good fit. The OP can become the best worker in the place but will the manager be happy?

That is good advice Glass fused light!

The manager has given the 'OP' a shot across the bough. The OP doesn't deny the suggestion of under-performance. You could go back to your manager and say "I now know what you expect of me and am certain I can meet those expectations. I'm not interested in finding another job. Thanks for the heads up - I really think we can make this work." See how the manager responds to that...

davo10 · 10-08-2018 1:45pm

gozunda wrote: »

Redundancy money if he is being left go as described. /quote]

Op would have to have 104 weeks of service to qualify for redundancy payment, he/she posted that only in the job just over a year.

_Brian · 10-08-2018 9:16pm

Here’s an angle and it’s something worth thinking about.

Maybe a senior manager has indicated to op’s manager that op needs issues addressed and the manager is giving op the opportunity to leave rather than be managed out.

In the past I’ve worked in a large company where senior managers would meddle in employee affairs and have been instructed to “manage that fella out” or “run him through a pip” to put manners on him.
It could be for many petty reasons, lads who don’t work overtime, snotty attitude, asking awkward questions of senior managers in open meetings, you’d be surprised why senior managers take the hump with employees well below their grade.

I’ve been put in the position when I pushed back where “it’s him or it’s you”

sillysmiles · 11-08-2018 12:40am

_Brian wrote: »

Here’s an angle and it’s something worth thinking about.

Maybe a senior manager has indicated to op’s manager that op needs issues addressed and the manager is giving op the opportunity to leave rather than be managed out.

In the past I’ve worked in a large company where senior managers would meddle in employee affairs and have been instructed to “manage that fella out” or “run him through a pip” to put manners on him.
It could be for many petty reasons, lads who don’t work overtime, snotty attitude, asking awkward questions of senior managers in open meetings, you’d be surprised why senior managers take the hump with employees well below their grade.

I’ve been put in the position when I pushed back where “it’s him or it’s you”

Jaysus, people are assholes sometimes aren't they.

No matter what your level, no one is irreplaceable so why do some people go out of their way to be assholes or to have a power trip. Is it really so hard to do your job as a manager without being a dick to someone.

Cilantro2000 · 11-08-2018 5:45am

_Brian wrote: »

Here’s an angle and it’s something worth thinking about.

Maybe a senior manager has indicated to op’s manager that op needs issues addressed and the manager is giving op the opportunity to leave rather than be managed out.

In the past I’ve worked in a large company where senior managers would meddle in employee affairs and have been instructed to “manage that fella out” or “run him through a pip” to put manners on him.
It could be for many petty reasons, lads who don’t work overtime, snotty attitude, asking awkward questions of senior managers in open meetings, you’d be surprised why senior managers take the hump with employees well below their grade.

I’ve been put in the position when I pushed back where “it’s him or it’s you”

He definitely is giving me an opportunity to leave, as don't think he wants the hassle of a pip process for months.

jon1981 · 11-08-2018 6:45am

I'd play hard ball and ask your manager to provide detailed examples and start addressing those.

He is predetermining your outcome of any process by saying you should move on now. That's a big HR no no and could land him in trouble. He sounds pretty inexperienced in this.

The pip process is horrible and really the manager feels all the pain, of course he wants the easy road. Don't give it to him.

Start documenting every engagment with your manager.

P.s. PIPs tend to end like this

1) employee gets fed up after month on month of improvement plans and leaves
2) manager can't design the pip well enough that the employee fails and so eventually pays off to leave
3) employee fails the pip

Number 3 is less common.

Glass fused light · 11-08-2018 7:05am

jon1981 wrote: »

I'd play hard ball and ask your manager to provide detailed examples and start addressing those.

He is predetermining your outcome of any process by saying you should move on now. That's a big HR no no and could land him in trouble. He sounds pretty inexperienced in this.

The pip process is horrible and really the manager feels all the pain, of course he wants the easy road. Don't give it to him.

Start documenting every engagment with your manager.

The OP will be feeling all the pain too and deciding to stick in a work place who have decided they dont like your face can be very damaging to that persons mental health. If the OP is sure that there is no reasonable hope of keeping the job he is much better off spending his energy on interviewing for new jobs to find one which he likes. And being open with the manager so that he can get time off work to do this.

OP good luck with the job hunting. You have improved your performance but can I suggest that you also try find out what made you a "poor fit" for the company? While other peoples perceptions of us can be hurtful, this knowledge may help you in your next job, particularly if as _Brian suggests you p-ed off a senior member of staff.

davemc180 · 11-08-2018 7:08am

Start taking notes, date and time all interactions with him/her

Ask for a copy of your contract. Have you had any warnings? If so written warning? If not then you are in a work place bullying situation, off the record as they said to you. That's intimidating

Go to your gp, get a letter saying your stressed out . It's affecting you mentally in your personal life, ie paying for kids upcoming events etc. Not sure if you will be working

This will all boil down to your work record. If you have a history of lates or missing deadlines. Well you ain't got a pot to piss an you will be let go if your in the spotlight again for what ever reason that gives them an excuse to pull you up on.

Buf if you are as clean as a whistle and do your role without issue. You could be in the position to swap roles with the power trips.

Request a written referal of your character and work performance from your manager/ foreman

They legally can not lie on it if you have been a role model member of staff. If your a let go a couple of weeks down the road. Happy days new car paid for and new job with he copy of your gp visit, which seems will be happening either way by the sound of the manager.

Don't be walked over
Best wishes

Cyrus · 11-08-2018 7:15am

Instead of the militant approach above take a look at yourself and ask were you working hard enough, were you doing a good job, should you have known what was reasonably expected of you looking at what others were doing ?

If you haven’t been performing then it’s your fault , maybe you can rectify it but in my experience people rarely do so I’d assume your manager is thinking the same and assumes you’ll end up going after a pip so is going you both a favour

Wanderer78 · 11-08-2018 7:31am

Cyrus wrote:

If you havenâ€™t been performing then itâ€™s your fault , maybe you can rectify it but in my experience people rarely do so Iâ€™d assume your manager is thinking the same and assumes youâ€™ll end up going after a pip so is going you both a favour

People say the weirdest of things on the internet, humans are not production machines, our most basic of needs are complicated by our modern society, resulting in complex stresses and anxiety. We ve been indoctrinated to believe we are in fact production machines, that can be switched on and off at will, and if we don't perform and meet these production targets, it of course must be due to the failings of the human production machine, but the truth is in fact far more complicated. Be careful what you say to people in such circumstances, as modern society is indeed highly stressful for these human production machines, as external factors can play a critical role in creating such circumstances. Appolgies for the rant.

realitykeeper · 11-08-2018 7:41am

Is it possible the manager needs a scapegoat to blame for his blunders? He doesn`t sound like the best communicator.

Glass fused light · 11-08-2018 7:43am

davemc180 wrote: »

Request a written referal of your character and work performance from your manager/ foreman

They legally can not lie on it if you have been a role model member of staff.

The manager has no legal obligation to write a character referral. And as it is the managers personal opinion of the OP as a person and as it would be handed directly to the OP, the manager could write just about anything. But as the manager has already mentioned HR nothing will be provided that can be used against the company. If there is a strict HR policy the manager would be prohibited from giving any kind of reference at all. The manager has no legal obligation to write a work performance referral either and will refer the OP to HR who will likely only provide a OP worked from/to reference.

ichabod · 11-08-2018 7:56am

gozunda wrote: »

Redundancy money if he is being left go as described. Not probably much but all the same the manager seems to want to go down the stupid route and risk a complaint about his behaviour and in a worse case scenario - The matter being investigated and ruled on externally...

Fairly typical bulky boy / head in the sand type of stupid management practices engaged in this country ime

The OP has worked with this company for just over a year. Therefore no redundancy. There is a minimum requirement of two years continuous service over the age of 16 with a company in order to qualify for redundancy. This is a simple case of trying to get the OP to leave. If he does so, he has a possible case for constructive dismissal. However, unlike being fired where the dismissal is always assumed to be unfair and it is up to the employer to prove otherwise, the onus is on the employee to prove constructive dismissal.
Some posters seem to be confusing lay off, redundancy and simple dismissal. These are all different kettles of fish and the rules and procedures different in each one.
It is difficult to know which way to go here. My own instinct would to take a
" do your worst " attitude but the OP says he has a young family and a mortgage to protect. Another poster has given some good advice. Record and take notes on any future adverse conversations, casual or formal with any management even if he decides to look for secure job. Note any witnesses to the conversation. He can then decide on a constructive dismissal or harassment claim once he has sufficient evidence. One casual conversation does not constitute harassment or even sufficient grounds for constructive dismissal.
I really feel sorry for anyone in this position which is all too common. I often wonder too what the criteria is for promotion to a management position in some companies. I think there is only one in many cases - Thick.

Montgolfier · 11-08-2018 8:00am

Your manager may have a friend or relation he is trying to get your job.
Probably asked hr and they said they can't hire anyone unless someone leaves.
That's the only senario where I would see a manager saying something so stupid.
Don't fold talk to the hr about this to confirm.

TG1 · 11-08-2018 8:08am

People will go to any lengths to avoid admitting the possibility that maybe an employee is actually underperforming.

Op, I would ask for specific examples, and then be prepared to hear them. Maybe there is an issue you are not aware of?

I'm not saying your manager was correct in how he went about it, but there is a possibility that there is a genuine performance issue there. Maybe talk to your manager to get specifics, work on those areas and have your proof of improvements made ready to go if it gets formalised, rather than putting all your energy into getting upset about wild unfounded theories about nepotism etc.

Cyrus · 11-08-2018 10:14am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

People say the weirdest of things on the internet, humans are not production machines, our most basic of needs are complicated by our modern society, resulting in complex stresses and anxiety. We ve been indoctrinated to believe we are in fact production machines, that can be switched on and off at will, and if we don't perform and meet these production targets, it of course must be due to the failings of the human production machine, but the truth is in fact far more complicated. Be careful what you say to people in such circumstances, as modern society is indeed highly stressful for these human production machines, as external factors can play a critical role in creating such circumstances. Appolgies for the rant.

Or you pay someone to do a job if they can’t do it they aren’t worth the payment you are giving them , why should someone suffer for the poor performance of another.

The op hasn’t pointed to any complex stresses maybe they just aren’t suited to the role or co they work for ?

Wanderer78 · 11-08-2018 11:35am

Cyrus wrote:

The op hasnâ€™t pointed to any complex stresses maybe they just arenâ€™t suited to the role or co they work for ?

They have to me, to be honest, in the first few posts, I do think it's far more constructive to give possible solutions to people in such situations, rather than being critical, the working world can be extremely stressful in modern society. Maybe I've misread your advice as being critical, in that case, I do apologise, but it does sound critical

davo10 · 11-08-2018 11:54am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

They have to me, to be honest, in the first few posts, I do think it's far more constructive to give possible solutions to people in such situations, rather than being critical, the working world can be extremely stressful in modern society. Maybe I've misread your advice as being critical, in that case, I do apologise, but it does sound critical

Not many people have the luxury of a stress free job, most are dependent on competency, performance of tasks, reaching targets etc. If you are not competent at your job, why should you have the job? Other members of society would be grateful of the opportunity.

Wanderer78 · 11-08-2018 12:00pm

davo10 wrote:

Not many people have the luxury of a stress free job, most are dependent on competency, performance of tasks, reaching targets etc. If you are not competent at your job, why should you have the job?

Being critical towards strangers on the internet's, particularly under such circumstances, is not very productive, have a little compassion and understanding towards their situation, in order to be so

Avatar MIA · 11-08-2018 12:01pm

A few things...

A written referral isn't worth the paper it's written on - when was the last time any company relied on a written referral when they can phone?

And you're not obliged to give a reference, for some reason an ex colleague gave me as a reference even though they were a complete liability, work shy and we were delighted when they left, and I simply ignored the potential employer, they eventually took the hint.

On the other hand I've given ex colleagues excellent references, one for a senior role with a large MNC and she came back to me and told me it was my reference that got her the job.

Clearly the OP's case is not a redundancy situation. Likewise, I don't think there's much chance of a successful disciplinary case against the manager.

The OP is doing the right thing, trying to get another job if that's an option.

Cyrus · 11-08-2018 12:08pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Being critical towards strangers on the internet's, particularly under such circumstances, is not very productive, have a little compassion and understanding towards their situation, in order to be so

Strangers on the internet ask for advice , no one is being critical but some introspection is required here it can’t always be someone else’s fault

beauf · 11-08-2018 12:53pm

Cyrus wrote: »

Strangers on the internet ask for advice , no one is being critical but some introspection is required here it can’t always be someone else’s fault

In my experience someone being badly managed is 10 times more likely than someone not being able to do a job.

But is always worthwhile to self diagnose and see what you can do to fix a situation yourself. I'm a fan of agreeing a list with someone them working through it. Once you have hard numbers on tasks completed, time taken etc. It's much easier to show progress or the lack of it.

Doing things verbal and non specific is not helpful. For me that's an indicator of poor planning and management. Both by the manager and the employee.

Cyrus · 11-08-2018 1:15pm

beauf wrote: »

In my experience someone being badly managed is 10 times more likely than someone not being able to do a job.

But is always worthwhile to self diagnose and see what you can do to fix a situation yourself. I'm a fan of agreeing a list with someone them working through it. Once you have hard numbers on tasks completed, time taken etc. It's much easier to show progress or the lack of it.

Doing things verbal and non specific is not helpful. For me that's an indicator of poor planning and management. Both by the manager and the employee.

In your experience how many people who have performed badly enough to be put on a pip are ever really suitable for the job that they are in?

Manager wants me gone

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