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Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

1525355575897

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I honestly don't see why GAI couldn't have some kind of temporary ad hoc agreement with the ferry terminal to allow them to park buses in the ferry terminal overnight. Surely they don't need planning permission just to park buses and the Harbour Company or the council could make money by charging them rent. It would make sense to me considering GAI do need a base nearer to its operational hubs than Ballymount. Not as a permanent agreement just a temporary one while GAI look for a nearer site.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Hearing a rumour that Go-Ahead may be storing buses in Collinstown for its Northside routes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    The issue wasn't the terminal, it was the hard standing used previously for the ferry.

    There is a separate application to build a cruise ship berth just to the left of the old HSS dock and provide parking, bus stands etc. This is with ABP currently, http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/PA0051.htm . As a result DLRCC won't entertain another application until the first is either withdrawn or refused

    The issue was that the foreshore licence for the terminal sat with the Harbour Company but when the HC transferred to the DLRCC the foreshore licence seems to have been forgotten about in the process.

    The entity that the licence was issued to, DLHC now no longer exists so DLRCC are in this weird limbo regarding the terminal. It's pretty interesting actually, if you're into that sort of thing.

    I had to deal with looking for documentary evidence of a foreshore licence being granted (It happened around 1933!!!) while working for DCC wrt the transfer of a water pumping station to Irish Water from the city council. Madness how things were let slide over the years in Irish admin.

    And still they are...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Hearing a rumour that Go-Ahead may be storing buses in Collinstown for its Northside routes

    I think that's the plan anyway. And then Dún Laoghaire and/or perhaps Bray for southside routes.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I think that's the plan anyway. And then Dún Laoghaire and/or perhaps Bray for southside routes.

    There are several places along the Boghall road that would be ideal, and even around the back road where Shoreline is. It is close to where DB do turn arounds and would be pretty much on route for most of their routes in the area. Last time I counted there were at least 5 decently sized places that would be large enough to accomodate a number of buses and maneuverability.

    Most would have toilets that need minor refurbishment or a portacabin could be easily installed.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    GM228 wrote: »
    Actually yes come to think of it I would say you are correct although without seeing the contract we can only currently speculate and remember that the NTA keeping the farebox does not necessarily mean they will keep income from advertising.

    The LUAS contract whilst not a PSO contract is similar to the type of competitive tendering contract GA have, advertising on the LUAS is managed by JC Decaux under contract with TII as opposed to Transdev so I would assume the NTA will contact advertising on GA services (as well as BE Waterford).

    Ah yes...that ol'contract thing again...wonder how many FoI's and trips to the High Court it's gonna take to get a peep at it ?

    Meanwhile,way down yonder in Singapore.....(again !!)

    https://landtransportguru.net/bus/bus-contracting-model/bukit-merah-bus-package/?fbclid=IwAR0Jnqv6-XxT1H0UB_orxExUfyBYvQVgwSyqqi81fbozuMTPqI_BrOf22e0

    https://landtransportguru.net/bus/bus-contracting-model/bukit-merah-bus-package/?fbclid=IwAR0Jnqv6-XxT1H0UB_orxExUfyBYvQVgwSyqqi81fbozuMTPqI_BrOf22e0
    Bidding Procedure

    As of the tender closing time, 6 bids were submitted from hopeful operators.
    S/No Country Tenderer Price for 5 Years
    Amount (S$)
    1. China / Local Jiaoyun Group Corporation / Travel GSH Pte Ltd Consortium 418,835,946.60
    2. Local SBS Transit Ltd 474,965,108.00
    Alternative Bid: 471,965,108.00
    3. China Shenzhen Bus Group Co. Ltd. 449,264,285.00
    4. Local SMRT Buses Ltd 444,925,777.00
    5. Local The Go-Ahead Group Plc 518,706,175.00

    6. Local Tower Transit Singapore Pte. Ltd. 483,796,997.00

    Contract Awarded:

    On Friday, 23 February 2018, LTA announced SBS Transit Ltd as the winner of the Bukit Merah Bus Package. The evaluation was conducted through a two-envelope process which included quality and price factors, with greater weightage given to the quality proposals submitted by tenderers. As per the LTA press release, SBST was awarded the contract because its proposal demonstrated a comprehensive understanding of the operational considerations, and strong competence in bus service scheduling that would enable the optimal deployment of buses and resources.

    In addition, SBST’s proposal showcased extensive experience in bus operations, while offering good value for money. It also had comprehensive contingency plans for cross-border services, and committed a significant number of experienced technicians to ensure high maintenance and reliability standards. SBST also demonstrated innovative IT solutions for infrastructure and asset maintenance, as well as security management, with the development of several in-house mobile applications for staff to report defects and incidents. It also presented a career development programme to up-skill its staff, with more opportunities for career progression, the authority said.

    The alternative proposal awarded involves SBS Transit leveraging on its existing bus infrastructure to optimise bus operations. This involved garaging some buses which operates on bus services as part of Bukit Merah Bus Package at other bus depots operated by SBS Transit.

    Additional Initiatives:

    SBS Transit introduced a telematics system, known as SAfe Green Eco System (SAGE), on all 730 buses under the Seletar and Bukit Merah Bus Packages to monitor the smoothness and comfort of bus rides provided by Bus Captains (BCs). The system records and monitors the BC’s driving behaviour such as speeding and harsh acceleration with feedback given in real-time through audio and visual alerts. This system is aimed at improving the safety of buses. Besides SAGE, these buses are also equipped with the Mobileye collision alert system.

    SBS Transit also set up a new Bus Technical Specialist Certification Centre at Ulu Pandan Depot for the Singapore Bus Academy (SGBA). This would enhance the professionalism of engineering and technical staff in the bus industry. SBS Transit’s experienced engineering staff would be involved in curriculum development and conducting assessments and certification.

    In addition, Free WiFi for commuters would be available for all bus services under the Bukit Merah Bus Package from February 2019.
    Bus Services:

    Bukit Merah Bus Package consists of 18 existing bus services, all of which are currently operated by SBS Transit. As a result, there will be no operator changes to all services.
    Service Destination 1 Destination 2 Type Description
    5 Bukit Merah Pasir Ris Trunk
    16 Bukit Merah Bedok Trunk
    57 Bukit Merah Bishan Trunk
    93 HarbourFront Eunos Trunk
    120 Kampong Bahru ↺ Telok Blangah Heights Trunk
    121 Kampong Bahru ↺ Telok Blangah Rise Trunk
    122 Kampong Bahru ↺ Commonwealth Drive Trunk
    123 Bukit Merah Beach Station Trunk
    123M Harbourfront ↺ Tiong Bahru Road Trunk Supplementary
    131 Bukit Merah St. Michael’s Trunk
    131M Bukit Merah ↺ Bt Purmei Ave Trunk Peak-hour Supplementary
    145 Buona Vista Toa Payoh Trunk
    160 Jurong East ↺ JB Sentral Trunk Cross Border
    170 Queen Street Larkin Trunk Cross Border
    170A Queen Street Woodlands Ctr Rd Trunk Supplementary
    170X Kranji MRT ↺ JB Sentral Trunk Cross Border
    195 Marina Centre ↺ Commonwealth Avenue Trunk
    198 Bukit Merah Boon Lay Trunk
    272 Bukit Merah ↺ Telok Blangah Rise Feeder
    273 Bukit Merah ↺ Henderson Road Feeder
    400 Shenton Way ↺ Marina Gardens Drive Trunk
    402 Shenton Way ↺ Marina Coastal Drive Trunk

    Services 123M, 131M, 170A and 170X are considered as supplementary services of their parent service and do not add to the overall service count. Short-Trip services are not included in the above list.

    Scope of Tender:

    As part of the tender, the new Operator will be required to fulfill responsibilities as such:

    Operate the eighteen (18) bus services in the areas in accordance with specified EWT performance standards
    Operate and maintain the buses and their onboard equipment provided by LTA
    Operate and maintain Bukit Merah and HarbourFront Bus Interchanges, Kampong Bahru, Queen Street, Shenton Way and Marina Centre Bus Terminals, and the new Ulu Pandan Bus Depot, including all equipment and systems provided therein
    Charge and collect the fares approved by the Public Transport Council, on behalf of the Government
    Provide bus service information at all bus stops and bus interchanges served by the 18 bus services
    Provide customer management services, such as lost and found service, and a hotline for commuter feedback and enquiries.

    All bus services will have scheduled headways of no more than 15 minutes for both directions during the morning and evening peak periods, with at least half of them having even shorter scheduled headways of no more than 10 minutes. Of these, the feeder services will run at even shorter intervals of 6-8 minutes. An estimated 45% of bus services will come at shorter intervals during peak periods when compared to the expanded BSEP.

    More guidelines can be found in the main Bus Contracting Model (BCM) article.

    Bus Interchanges & Terminals under the package:

    Bukit Merah Bus Interchange
    HarbourFront Bus Interchange
    Kampong Bahru Bus Terminal
    Queen Street Bus Terminal
    Shenton Way Bus Terminal
    Marina Centre Bus Terminal

    Bus Depot under the package:

    Ulu Pandan Bus Depot

    Route Package Timeline:

    2016 (11 Aug): Bukit Merah Bus Package mentioned as one of 11 Negotiated Contract (NC) Packages operated by SBS Transit.
    2017 (28 Apr): Bukit Merah Bus Package open for Tender. Closes on 28 Aug 2017, 12:00PM
    2017 (28 Aug): Tender closed with 6 bids received
    2018 (23 Feb): Tender awarded to SBS Transit Ltd (Alternative Bid)
    2018 (18 Nov): Start of Bukit Merah Bus Package (Tendered Contract)

    TLDR,as the NTA hope you'll say....;) ;);)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Ah yes...that ol'contract thing again...wonder how many FoI's and trips to the High Court it's gonna take to get a peep at it ?

    Meanwhile,way down yonder in Singapore.....(again !!)

    https://landtransportguru.net/bus/bus-contracting-model/bukit-merah-bus-package/?fbclid=IwAR0Jnqv6-XxT1H0UB_orxExUfyBYvQVgwSyqqi81fbozuMTPqI_BrOf22e0

    https://landtransportguru.net/bus/bus-contracting-model/bukit-merah-bus-package/?fbclid=IwAR0Jnqv6-XxT1H0UB_orxExUfyBYvQVgwSyqqi81fbozuMTPqI_BrOf22e0



    TLDR,as the NTA hope you'll say....;) ;);)

    I really don't understand why you constantly refer to Singapore? Different rules and all that, Singapore is an exception, not the norm.

    You do know that by law the NTA must refuse a FOI request where commercial sensitivity is involved? Yes there is a public interest test involved but should a case ever come before the courts (unlikely I would guess) I find it very hard to believe they will ever be released as the principles of commercial sensitivity are well established and protected by the courts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    GM228 wrote: »
    I really don't understand why you constantly refer to Singapore? Different rules and all that, Singapore is an exception, not the norm.

    You do know that by law the NTA must refuse a FOI request where commercial sensitivity is involved? Yes there is a public interest test involved but should a case ever come before the courts (unlikely I would guess) I find it very hard to believe they will ever be released as the principles of commercial sensitivity are well established and protected by the courts.

    Yep,Thanks GM....I fully accept that Singapore is...well...not Ireland,and yes again,I fully accept that YOU are very well versed in what the NTA must,or must not do in relation to how it administers Public (as in,our) Transport policy...lets all take that as a given...Yes ?

    However,as you probably can divine,I disagree with this principle,particularly in relation to the current BMO process,where,to a significant degree,the principles you espouse,and undoubtedly hold dear,are acting against the far greater principle of the common good.

    To be VERY clear on the issue...it is my opinion that,if democratic principles are being adhered to in this BMO process,the FoI act should not be required at all.

    The NTA should be required,by law,to fully release into the Public Domain,any,and all elements of the process which lead to the decision to award it's contracts....to whatever entity secures them.

    What is it about this entirely basic principle of "Openess & Transparency" that frightens so many people within & without the "System" :confused:

    Oh!....and apologies in advance.....I'll be returning to Singapore as matters progress......:)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    The NTA should be required,by law,to fully release into the Public Domain,any,and all elements of the process which lead to the decision to award it's contracts....to whatever entity secures them.

    What is it about this entirely basic principle of "Openess & Transparency" that frightens so many people within & without the "System" :confused:
    I would have thought the reasons for not showing the tender applications is obvious as alot of applicants would not want operational plans to be ripped off.

    What should be public is the reasoning behind the tendering decision. This would refer to the applications without divulging too much info. It would help the public understand the process, keep tenders on the straight and narrow, and allow the competition to see where they may have lost out for the next round of competition.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,526 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I have seen the Steetlite Max twice for the 1st time today. They are a very nice long enough single deck bus to have in GAI's fleet.

    Just about the timetable for the 45A, I was waiting for a 7 to get home opposite the Catholic Church near Tesco in Ballybrack this evening. A 45A to Dun Laoghaire went past the stop before the 7 arrived. There was a short gap of about 2 minutes between each bus then. When the 7 was about to arrive; the next 45A, going from the RTPI, was only another 3 minutes away.

    I know that this could sound really stupid to many here on Boards.

    When I was on the 7 before going around Glenageary Roundabout near Lidl at Sallynoggin. I see a 45A from Dun Laoghaire stopping outside Lidl. When the 7 just went off the roundabout to head down Silchester Road; another 45a from Dun Laoghaire comes up Silchester Road less than 5 seconds later. I know that the 45A frequency is about every 15 to 20 minutes throughout the day. But; can someone here try to answer why does the 45A suffers from apparent bus bunching during this evening? Is this a regular occurence with all of the GAI routes in Dun Laoghaire?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I have seen the Steetlite Max twice for the 1st time today. They are a very nice long enough single deck bus to have in GAI's fleet.

    The NTA have decided that the aswell as the 111, 184 and 185 that they will also be allocated to the 33a, 33b, 104, 114 161, 236, 238, 239 and 270 from what I believe. There could be one or two others but that's seems to be how the allocation will be for them
    When I was on the 7 before going around Glenageary Roundabout near Lidl at Sallynoggin. I see a 45A from Dun Laoghaire stopping outside Lidl. When the 7 just went off the roundabout to head down Silchester Road; another 45a from Dun Laoghaire comes up Silchester Road less than 5 seconds later. I know that the 45A frequency is about every 15 to 20 minutes throughout the day. But; can someone here try to answer why does the 45A suffers from apparent bus bunching during this evening? Is this a regular occurence with all of the GAI routes in Dun Laoghaire?

    Saw it on the 63 aswell two buses bunched at the lights near Dunnes in Cornelscourt at about 7pm couldn't understand how it would happen myself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,104 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    fun and games on the 184 yesterday - apparently one of the afternoon buses got to Greystones village and the driver realised he was supposed to be on the 185 and kicked everyone off (this is from the local FB group):

    HLTeRyv.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭john boye


    loyatemu wrote: »
    fun and games on the 184 yesterday - apparently one of the afternoon buses got to Greystones village and the driver realised he was supposed to be on the 185 and kicked everyone off (this is from the local FB group):

    HLTeRyv.png

    That seems to be just happen sometimes sadly. My Mrs and a load of others got turfed off a "15A" a few weeks ago as the driver had accidentally put it up instead of 15B.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,104 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    john boye wrote: »
    That seems to be just happen sometimes sadly. My Mrs and a load of others got turfed off a "15A" a few weeks ago as the driver had accidentally put it up instead of 15B.

    how did he get to Greystones before realising he was on the wrong route though? The 185 goes in a completely different direction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭john boye


    loyatemu wrote: »
    how did he get to Greystones before realising he was on the wrong route though? The 185 goes in a completely different direction.

    Ah OK I didn't realise they were such different routes, not completely familiar with the routes out that way


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    loyatemu wrote: »
    how did he get to Greystones before realising he was on the wrong route though? The 185 goes in a completely different direction.

    Maybe got a call on radio.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    loyatemu wrote: »
    how did he get to Greystones before realising he was on the wrong route though? The 185 goes in a completely different direction.

    Could have done a few rounds of the 184 before realising his next duty was on the 185.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭.G.


    It can't be helpful when you do several different routes as part of one duty, especially when all the routes and roads are new to you. Friend of mine who's wife uses several of the Go Ahead routes said drivers going the wrong way is happening a lot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    superg wrote: »
    It can't be helpful when you do several different routes as part of one duty, especially when all the routes and roads are new to you. Friend of mine who's wife uses several of the Go Ahead routes said drivers going the wrong way is happening a lot.

    I know it seems like a stupid decision not to give routes an allocation. I know DB did it from time to time where they might send out a bus on DL local after operating the 46a but not to the extent Go-Ahead are doing it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭KD345


    From observing the services it does seem like Go Ahead are stretching their resources too much. Many of the delays and bunching seems to be down to a delay on one route creating a knock on effect for the next route that bus is due to operate. The running time seems pretty tight on many duties too which may be an issue. I used Go Ahead services 4 times in the last week - two services ran on time, one was 20 minutes late and the other bus didn't turn up.

    They should just put double deckers back onto the 184 full time to cope with the crowds. Having passengers left at the side of the road is not the way to go. Possibly related, Dublin Bus have just announced an increase on the 84 from Monday with 4 additional departures. This should help with the crowds between Greystones and Bray. http://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Additional-Departures-on-Route-84a/

    I noticed online Wicklow County Council have sent a letter to the NTA to complain about the recent changes in the Greystones area on the 84, 184 and DART.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    KD345 wrote: »
    From observing the services it does seem like Go Ahead are stretching their resources too much. Many of the delays and bunching seems to be down to a delay on one route creating a knock on effect for the next route that bus is due to operate. The running time seems pretty tight on many duties too which may be an issue. I used Go Ahead services 4 times in the last week - two services ran on time, one was 20 minutes late and the other bus didn't turn up.

    When they take over more services they'll have to stop the practice of randomly assigning buses to drivers and routes. They should have a system where a bus and driver will operate the same bus and the same route for the duration of their shift and only making changes if absolutely nessecary. It's seems they have allocated the same buses for the routes terminating in DL and the same ones for Bray terminating routes rather than on a route by route basis which works better.
    They should just put double deckers back onto the 184 full time to cope with the crowds. Having passengers left at the side of the road is not the way to go. Possibly related, Dublin Bus have just announced an increase on the 84 from Monday with 4 additional departures. This should help with the crowds between Greystones and Bray. http://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Additional-Departures-on-Route-84a/

    I noticed online Wicklow County Council have sent a letter to the NTA to complain about the recent changes in the Greystones area on the 84, 184 and DART.

    Yeah it was stupid putting single deckers on the 184. My guess was that the NTA thought because the route wasn't very frequent on weekends until now they might have thought they could get away with putting single deckers on it as it wouldn't be that well used on weekends and they could increase frequency while saving fuel. Also it's a longish route so single deckers may save on fuel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    KD345 wrote: »
    They should just put double deckers back onto the 184 full time to cope with the crowds. Having passengers left at the side of the road is not the way to go. Possibly related, Dublin Bus have just announced an increase on the 84 from Monday with 4 additional departures. This should help with the crowds between Greystones and Bray. http://www.dublinbus.ie/News-Centre/General-News/Additional-Departures-on-Route-84a/

    I love the way they call it 'Good News!!!' when it's literally just a reversal of some of the cuts they made a month ago.
    superg wrote:
    Friend of mine who's wife uses several of the Go Ahead routes said drivers going the wrong way is happening a lot.

    It's happening a bit alright. Teething problems are an inevitable consequence of having lots of new drivers starting around the same time - many of whom have only just passed their test and are still getting used to driving buses. Not that it's any consolation to discommoded passengers, but it'll sort itself out in time.

    The problematic rosters are expected to be sorted out when Go Ahead have taken over all of their routes in the new year, and that'll hopefully improve things too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    superg wrote: »
    It can't be helpful when you do several different routes as part of one duty, especially when all the routes and roads are new to you. Friend of mine who's wife uses several of the Go Ahead routes said drivers going the wrong way is happening a lot.

    I think alot of that could be down to inexperience.

    Which will correct itself in time.

    I dont think they are doing several routes in on duty. That is not really possible.

    Lots of dublin bus duties have 2 different routes. Once you go the wrong way a few times, you soon learn to concentrate harder.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭Dave_Dublin


    I think alot of that could be down to inexperience.

    I dont think they are doing several routes in one duty. That is not really possible.

    As a Go-Ahead driver, I can tell you that we drive up to FOUR (4) different routes in one duty shift.

    Many duties have a gap of two to three hours after we've driven for a few hours.

    The shifts are usually between 11 and 13 hours long.

    We are stranded in Dún Laoghaire for the three-hour gap / we're not on a break, we are officially on "Stand-by" - - this means we can be requested to drive or do any other task assigned by a supervisor.

    Our 40-minute break is usually scheduled either at the start or the end of the *stand-by* period.

    As previously mentioned in the thread, there are no toilet facilities available to us.
    Yes: there are plenty of toliets in D.L. but many are "for customers only" or are PAY-as-you-use...

    I have had to eat my lunch sitting on the side of the road at the rear of the train station -or- at a bus stop at the front of the station if it was raining.


    If our first run is late (delayed in traffic), our subsequent runs are automatically late as there's usually only a 7-minute buffer between the scheduled arrival time of one route and the scheduled departure time of the next route.

    (Traffic delays, especially on route 75, can put us up to 20 minutes behind schedule)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I think alot of that could be down to inexperience.

    Which will correct itself in time.

    I dont think they are doing several routes in on duty. That is not really possible.

    Lots of dublin bus duties have 2 different routes. Once you go the wrong way a few times, you soon learn to concentrate harder.

    Maybe not several routes in one duty but what I have witnessed is in DL a 63 coming in to terminate and then going back out 5 mins later as a 75.

    I've never seen that happen with DB not denying that it may happen from time to time perhaps after a driver goes on a break but I've never witnessed a bus terminate and then go back out almost straight away on a different route with DB but have with GAI. A friend of mine was saying that he was on the 75 and internal displays were wrongly displaying 45a.

    It appears that GAI are randomly allocating buses day by day, duty by duty rather than having a set allocation for a particular route like DB would have with un allocated buses covering in case of buses in work or breakdowns etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭.G.


    With Dublin Bus it's things like the 25a and 25b or 79a and 79 on the same duty. The routes are largely the same except for a small section so it's different to what the go ahead drivers have to put up with.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,135 Mod ✭✭✭✭cherryghost




    As a Go-Ahead driver, I can tell you that we drive up to FOUR (4) different routes in one duty shift.

    Many duties have a gap of two to three hours after we've driven for a few hours.

    The shifts are usually between 11 and 13 hours long.

    We are stranded in Dún Laoghaire for the three-hour gap / we're not on a break, we are officially on "Stand-by" - - this means we can be requested to drive or do any other task assigned by a supervisor.

    Our 40-minute break is usually scheduled either at the start or the end of the *stand-by* period.

    As previously mentioned in the thread, there are no toilet facilities available to us.
    Yes: there are plenty of toliets in D.L. but many are "for customers only" or are PAY-as-you-use...

    I have had to eat my lunch sitting on the side of the road at the rear of the train station -or- at a bus stop at the front of the station if it was raining.


    If our first run is late (delayed in traffic), our subsequent runs are automatically late as there's usually only a 7-minute buffer between the scheduled arrival time of one route and the scheduled departure time of the next route.

    (Traffic delays, especially on route 75, can put us up to 20 minutes behind schedule)

    That's shockingly bad if true.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny




    As a Go-Ahead driver, I can tell you that we drive up to FOUR (4) different routes in one duty shift.

    Many duties have a gap of two to three hours after we've driven for a few hours.

    The shifts are usually between 11 and 13 hours long.

    We are stranded in Dún Laoghaire for the three-hour gap / we're not on a break, we are officially on "Stand-by" - - this means we can be requested to drive or do any other task assigned by a supervisor.

    Our 40-minute break is usually scheduled either at the start or the end of the *stand-by* period.

    As previously mentioned in the thread, there are no toilet facilities available to us.
    Yes: there are plenty of toliets in D.L. but many are "for customers only" or are PAY-as-you-use...

    I have had to eat my lunch sitting on the side of the road at the rear of the train station -or- at a bus stop at the front of the station if it was raining.


    If our first run is late (delayed in traffic), our subsequent runs are automatically late as there's usually only a 7-minute buffer between the scheduled arrival time of one route and the scheduled departure time of the next route.

    (Traffic delays, especially on route 75, can put us up to 20 minutes behind schedule)

    What are SIPTU doing on these matters? You should at least have shelter to eat your packed lunch in. Dublin bus have very little in the way of toilets either. They really do expect you to go 5 hours with out a toilet. You keep a bottle in your bag. As for lady drivers, they must have bladders of steel.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    What are SIPTU doing on these matters? You should at least have shelter to eat your packed lunch in. Dublin bus have very little in the way of toilets either. They really do expect you to go 5 hours with out a toilet. You keep a bottle in your bag. As for lady drivers, they must have bladders of steel.

    I'm out of the garage since 0630 this morning and won't get to a toilet till 1230.

    That's a db work out and no facilities anywhere on route or at ends.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,399 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    I think we all understand in the working environment that we'll have situations for a few hours where going to the toilet is difficult. The issue for me here is the complete lack of shelter / toilet provisions for staff working 12 hour shifts. How could anyone thing that's acceptable? How did the NTA sign off on Go Ahead's operational readiness without this being in place?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I think we all understand in the working environment that we'll have situations for a few hours where going to the toilet is difficult. The issue for me here is the complete lack of shelter / toilet provisions for staff working 12 hour shifts. How could anyone thing that's acceptable? How did the NTA sign off on Go Ahead's operational readiness without this being in place?

    But DB don't have those facilities either in many cases so it's not like GAI are unique in that sense. If we waited until we had the perfect situation every time something new was to be implemented we'd get nowhere teething problems are inevitable GAI are meant to be working on something in DL.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    But DB don't have those facilities either in many cases so it's not like GAI are unique in that sense. If we waited until we had the perfect situation every time something new was to be implemented we'd get nowhere teething problems are inevitable GAI are meant to be working on something in DL.

    Ah here they have had plenty of time.

    Would aib or the likes of Google etc etc set up and say oh by the way there is a box and and a laptop you work away there but provide your own facilities but you can't work from home.

    Stop making excuses for them they are a huge company who are quick to state such and that they are hugely experienced etc etc.

    Db has everything in place already from Depot to maintenance etc.

    I am annoyed at how people expect drivers to work in such conditions and db drivers, be etc should ha e facilities provided such as a basic toilet and wash basin at strategic places.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,399 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    But DB don't have those facilities either in many cases so it's not like GAI are unique in that sense. If we waited until we had the perfect situation every time something new was to be implemented we'd get nowhere teething problems are inevitable GAI are meant to be working on something in DL.

    Excuse me, when do DB expect a worker to put in a 12 hour shift without a place to have a sandwich or go to the toilet?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Excuse me, when do DB expect a worker to put in a 12 hour shift without a place to have a sandwich or go to the toilet?

    But there are plenty of places to use the toilets in Dun Laoghaire. Public toilets in the library, the People's Park, the shopping centre, McDonald's and in Bloomfields.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Excuse me, when do DB expect a worker to put in a 12 hour shift without a place to have a sandwich or go to the toilet?

    Wouldn't it be more accurate to say "without a place to bring a sandwich to eat or go to the toilet for free?" - because as your post is worded, those two definitely exist in Dun Laoghaire.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Ah here they have had plenty of time.

    Would aib or the likes of Google etc etc set up and say oh by the way there is a box and and a laptop you work away there but provide your own facilities but you can't work from home.

    Stop making excuses for them they are a huge company who are quick to state such and that they are hugely experienced etc etc.

    Db has everything in place already from Depot to maintenance etc.

    I am annoyed at how people expect drivers to work in such conditions and db drivers, be etc should ha e facilities provided such as a basic toilet and wash basin at strategic places.

    It's a bit different compared working on the move compared to a company which has fixed buildings do you not think would be drivers would have thought that before applying. Also not all DB breaks afaik are taken in the depot.

    I'm not making excuses for them all I'm saying is that they may have teething issues which has been apparent for the last couple of weeks. I hope these issues are only teething problems and they're sorted out when they take over more batches of routes.

    Yes agree there should be facilities provided but only where a lack of facilities currently exist DL is not one of these places.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    It's a bit different compared working on the move compared to a company which has fixed buildings do you not think would be drivers would have thought that before applying. Also not all DB breaks afaik are taken in the depot.

    I'm not making excuses for them all I'm saying is that they may have teething issues which has been apparent for the last couple of weeks. I hope these issues are only teething problems and they're sorted out when they take over more batches of routes.

    Yes agree there should be facilities provided but only where a lack of facilities currently exist DL is not one of these places.

    In dun Laoghaire though there is an issue a driver can be there before opening and after closing of all these places.

    They will need to sort something out or buses will be late all the time as it takes time to get to any of these facilities you mention.

    I believe we should be looking at the London model where 6 million is being spent on toilets for drivers.

    Some of these facilities are existing already just not enough where as the now sitting mayor is fixing it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Here we go


    From what Iv been told go ahead are currently fitting out a rest room/canteen area in DL and 15€ vouchers for the coffee shop in DL are avalible at the depot for drivers so they can sit in and eat and use facilities as paying customers with no cost to driver


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 315 ✭✭soundman45


    Here we go wrote: »
    From what Iv been told go ahead are currently fitting out a rest room/canteen area in DL and 15€ vouchers for the coffee shop in DL are avalible at the depot for drivers so they can sit in and eat and use facilities as paying customers with no cost to driver

    This is in fact correct. But dont let the truth ruin a good story.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Tarabuses


    soundman45 wrote: »
    This is in fact correct. But dont let the truth ruin a good story.

    Someone needs to tell Dave_Dublin.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,526 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I had seen of the ex DB GT's out in Marine Road; Dun Laoghaire today. It was 11901. It was Not in Service presumably on route training or going back to Ballymount Garage. The bus is now painted in the updated NTA livery with the yellow front. GAI have the new streetlites on the 111 but still not on the 59 yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Seen a new street lite with faulty rear brake lights yesterday on 111.

    Do they do a 1st bus check????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I had seen of the ex DB GT's out in Marine Road; Dun Laoghaire today. It was 11901. It was Not in Service presumably on route training or going back to Ballymount Garage. The bus is now painted in the updated NTA livery with the yellow front. GAI have the new streetlites on the 111 but still not on the 59 yet.

    They won't be on the 59 from what I believe as they're too long for the roundabout in Killiney Village.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    They won't be on the 59 from what I believe as they're too long for the roundabout in Killiney Village.

    Doesn't surprise me at all. Wv, av, ax and ev all fit around no issue.

    Easiest to get around was the EV.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    In dun Laoghaire though there is an issue a driver can be there before opening and after closing of all these places.

    They will need to sort something out or buses will be late all the time as it takes time to get to any of these facilities you mention.

    I believe we should be looking at the London model where 6 million is being spent on toilets for drivers.

    Some of these facilities are existing already just not enough where as the now sitting mayor is fixing it.

    I guess so but perhaps they could minimise this by having breaking during the day as much as possible as has been said they are fitting out a facility for drivers hopefully that's in or near the DART station rather than in the town to minimise walking distance causing delays.

    The thing about providing toilets for drivers while it's a good thing these would require planning permission which it they might not get to put them everywhere where they are needed and it could be a while before they could be implemented while objections are listened to.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I think we all understand in the working environment that we'll have situations for a few hours where going to the toilet is difficult. The issue for me here is the complete lack of shelter / toilet provisions for staff working 12 hour shifts. How could anyone thing that's acceptable? How did the NTA sign off on Go Ahead's operational readiness without this being in place?

    It once again all comes back to what they said on how ready they were in that (hidden) original tender award. Did anyone in the NTA process ask about fitting out facilities for drivers? Did they care?

    How long is it since it was awarded and in the best case scenario, they are still fitting out a canteen according to Here we go - is it a year? What have they been doing?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    In regards DL, are there not facilities for IR staff there? Can the NTA not look into accessing these?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    CramCycle wrote: »
    In regards DL, are there not facilities for IR staff there? Can the NTA not look into accessing these?

    Why would Irish rail provide for a private company.

    They removed the public toilets as drug addicts and thugs were destroying them.

    It's up to the government and operators to start something and get facilities put in for drivers across the city.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Why would Irish rail provide for a private company.

    They removed the public toilets as drug addicts and thugs were destroying them.

    It's up to the government and operators to start something and get facilities put in for drivers across the city.

    I didn't say give, i said look into accessing them. CIE is state owned, the NTA is also state run. Surely there is a simple solution in there.
    So are there staff toilets and break areas in DL for IR staff?

    This would be me pointing out what you are saying, the government should do something.
    Provide a small amount extra to IR for specifically cleaning and maintaining the higher usage of the facilities, if they are there, for the increased amount of use.
    The only people who would object to this are those who just want to be awkward.
    To be fair to GAI, if the previous posts are true, they are doing more than DB to provide for the drivers, but maybe the pay difference makes it palatable for the DB drivers.
    This is, at some endpoints, an easily solvable issue, that the dept of tourism...... should simply order via CIE and the NTA


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,206 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Just from a very pedantic view, Irish Rail own little or no property, that is all vested in CIE.

    CIE does not have an contract with the NTA, the contracts are with the subsidiary companies only.

    So the NTA can't twist any arms in DL or elsewhere.


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