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Speed cameras in Ireland - a guide

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Comments

  • #902
    alta stare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭alta stare


    :D


  • #903
    alta stare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭alta stare


    steo_magra wrote: »
    Your replies are getting weaker and it’s draining.

    Well then there ya go. You called me out :D

    Mod note - banned for real.


  • #904
    JamesBond2010
    Registered Users Posts: 2,444 ✭✭✭JamesBond2010


    Close the thread there.


  • #905
    newmember2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,599 ✭✭✭newmember2


    JamesBond2010 wrote: »
    Close the thread there.

    You being serious? Close a near 1000 post thread cos two users wanna act the ass?


  • #906
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Back on topic folks.


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  • #907
    JamesBond2010
    Registered Users Posts: 2,444 ✭✭✭JamesBond2010


    newmember? wrote: »
    You being serious? Close a near 1000 post thread cos two users wanna act the ass?
    :D:D
    No i only wanted people to start being serious again Ur grand bud :cool:


  • #908
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    newmember? wrote: »
    You being serious? Close a near 1000 post thread cos two users wanna act the ass?

    As the OP to this thread, I want to see it closed or even deleted. No one bothers to read it anyway and the same questions come up ad naseum. It's beyond infuriating when you spend so much time to give back to a community and no one bothers to take the few minutes to do a quick search.


  • #909
    mrawkward
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭mrawkward


    Pity to see such an informative and interesting thread get so badly mangled.

    I did a road trip around Ireland with an American friend a couple of months back. He brought a new-fangled 2018 model Uniden R3 multiband long range detector that he had recently acquired along with him. It apparently covers X K Ka bands and laser. He said it works brilliantly in the US.

    We did about 950Km with it running...our activation results were quite quite odd.

    The "your speed is" display signs..Nothing.

    Lots of KA band bleeps for traffic light mounted sensors, door openers and even some trailer mounted temporary road signage.

    Tolling stations and M50 overheads..nothing.

    We encountered only 2 speed vans, both with rear doors facing towards us, in both cases it pinged intensely, but only as we were just alongside/past. We were travelling at or below the limit in each case.


  • #910
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    mrawkward wrote: »
    Pity to see such an informative and interesting thread get so badly mangled.

    I did a road trip around Ireland with an American friend a couple of months back. He brought a new-fangled 2018 model Uniden R3 multiband long range detector that he had recently acquired along with him. It apparently covers X K Ka bands and laser. He said it works brilliantly in the US.

    We did about 950Km with it running...our activation results were quite quite odd.

    The "your speed is" display signs..Nothing.

    Lots of KA band bleeps for traffic light mounted sensors, door openers and even some trailer mounted temporary road signage.

    Tolling stations and M50 overheads..nothing.

    We encountered only 2 speed vans, both with rear doors facing towards us, in both cases it pinged intensely, but only as we were just alongside/past. We were travelling at or below the limit in each case.

    It's all been answered here already.

    Gosafe operate on K band (the lower part of the spectrum )
    It's at an angle
    It's polarised (that device would have to be positioned vertically to improve detection range)
    That device is illegal here.

    Toll roads use different technology, and that device isn't designed to detect it.

    Lots of other things use the same freqs, ie, lane departure etc etc.

    Full explanations of the technology used, and it's limitations have already been mentioned in this thread.

    Just go back to pg1, put the kettle on,, open a packet of jaffa cakes and have a good read.

    I don't mean to be in any way rude or dismissive, but, some of us are getting tired of constantly explaining and referring to technical documentation., which has already been explained and linked to.

    Happy reading.


  • #911
    Pretzeluck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 325 ✭✭Pretzeluck


    Doesn't matter.
    I use a motorbike on my commute which doesn't have a number plate on the front therefore I avoid any fines and I speed every day going to work. I can only be caught by the hairdryer. For all other tasks I use a car which is the perfect solution.


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  • #912
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Pretzeluck wrote: »
    Doesn't matter.
    I use a motorbike on my commute which doesn't have a number plate on the front therefore I avoid any fines and I speed every day going to work. I can only be caught by the hairdryer. For all other tasks I use a car which is the perfect solution.

    You also need to read the thread from the start.

    Gosafe van can take a pic of the rear of the bike under certain conditions


  • #913
    Pretzeluck
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 325 ✭✭Pretzeluck


    mikeecho wrote: »
    You also need to read the thread from the start.

    Gosafe van can take a pic of the rear of the bike under certain conditions

    I literally speed every single day and accelerate upon passing the van, still haven't received anything.


  • #914
    mrawkward
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭mrawkward


    mikeecho wrote: »
    It's all been answered here already.

    Gosafe operate on K band (the lower part of the spectrum )
    It's at an angle
    It's polarised (that device would have to be positioned vertically to improve detection range)
    That device is illegal here.

    Toll roads use different technology, and that device isn't designed to detect it.

    Lots of other things use the same freqs, ie, lane departure etc etc.

    Full explanations of the technology used, and it's limitations have already been mentioned in this thread.

    Just go back to pg1, put the kettle on,, open a packet of jaffa cakes and have a good read.

    I don't mean to be in any way rude or dismissive, but, some of us are getting tired of constantly explaining and referring to technical documentation., which has already been explained and linked to.

    Happy reading.

    I have given the thread a couple of hours, and read some terrible sh*te. That such devices are illegal here is stating the bleeding obvious. I ignore trite little comments about fairy cakes and the like.

    Neither have I any interest in opinions just empirical data that answers the questions posed.

    So you say GoSafe use the lower end of the K spectrum.. do you have an actual number/value?
    I get the angle of beam/visible spread profile etc, so why would I be alongside/or past before detection?

    Was hoping Ironclaw would respond as I know him to be a real quality poster from other forums.


  • #915
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    mrawkward wrote: »
    I have given the thread a couple of hours, and read some terrible sh*te. That such devices are illegal here is stating the bleeding obvious. I ignore trite little comments about fairy cakes and the like.

    Neither have I any interest in opinions just empirical data that answers the questions posed.

    So you say GoSafe use the lower end of the K spectrum.. do you have an actual number/value?
    I get the angle of beam/visible spread profile etc, so why would I be alongside/or past before detection?

    Was hoping Ironclaw would respond as I know him to be a real quality poster from other forums.

    I'm here! :pac:

    What mikeecho said is bang on. There is not a device on the market that can detect these vans at a considerable distance that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. If you really want to detect these vans, you'll need a Stinger DSI (About €3k installed)

    The reason? Escort and Bel, the major radar detector manufacturers have not improved their technology in years (And I mean 15+ years) as the police in the US haven't done it either. These devices are legal in many US states and red light / fixed cameras are more common, hence most of the development has been in adding GPS etc them.

    On the technical side, you have three things against you:

    - GoSafe uses a very low powered beam compared to a 'hairdryer' radar gun. Basically, it's whispering as opposed to shouting so your device won't 'hear' it until you are on top of it.
    - GoSafe beams are highly polarized in the vertical direction. Your average device is better in the horizontal, so your detection range is lower.
    - GoSafe radar is right on the edge of K band (24GHz dead as opposed to 24.1+GHZ for other devices) meaning your bandpass filter in the device is struggling to hear it as it's more sensitive towards the centre of the band. This is an engineering limitation and if you can solve it, you'll make a lot of money.

    To absolutely ram home, these devices are extremely illegal in Ireland. You can't even walk around with one in your bag, let alone in your car. Do not, whatever you do, buy one and think you can speed around the country. That's not how they work and they won't work in 99% of cases.

    How do I know the above? I've had an unhealthy obsession with this tech since I was younger and have the good fortune of being in areas where they are legal, I've been at locations where they are being tested, and I've met with individuals who are experts in the field.

    Slow down, arrive alive. It's far easier and far cheaper.

    Edit: Changed frequency, thanks mikeecho.


  • #916
    mrawkward
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭mrawkward


    Excellent...I now understand why we got the results we did.


  • #917
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    @ironclaw

    24ghz


  • #918
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    mikeecho wrote: »
    @ironclaw

    24ghz

    Whoops. Thanks!


  • #919
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    ironclaw wrote: »
    To absolutely ram home, these devices are extremely illegal in Ireland. You can't even walk around with one in your bag, let alone in your car. Do not, whatever you do, buy one and think you can speed around the country.

    Indeed, it is illegal to:-
    • Use your car with one in it in a public place (weather the device is in use or not).
    • Import or supply a device.
    • Fit a device to a vehicle.
    • Have one in your possession.

    In other words it is illegal to import, supply, fit or use/have one in a vehicle or on your person.

    It is also worth noting that not only can Customs and Gardaí seize such devices, but can also actually seize the vehicle they are in too, this rarely happens though.


  • #920
    JamesBond2010
    Registered Users Posts: 2,444 ✭✭✭JamesBond2010


    GM228 wrote: »
    Indeed, it is illegal to:-
    • Use your car with one in it in a public place (weather the device is in use or not).
    • Import or supply a device.
    • Fit a device to a vehicle.
    • Have one in your possession.

    In other words it is illegal to import, supply, fit or use/have one in a vehicle or on your person.

    It is also worth noting that not only can Customs and Gardaí seize such devices, but can also actually seize the vehicle they are in too, this rarely happens though.


    For Sale

    Stinger Going Cheap Only used a small bit :p:p:D:D:D


  • #921
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,287 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Pretzeluck wrote: »
    I literally speed every single day and accelerate upon passing the van, still haven't received anything.
    Are you walking or on a bicycle?


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  • #922
    JamesBond2010
    Registered Users Posts: 2,444 ✭✭✭JamesBond2010


    Pretzeluck wrote: »
    I literally speed every single day and accelerate upon passing the van, still haven't received anything.






    U Rebel!!!!:p:p:D:D:D:D:D


  • #923
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    I figuratively speed past the vans everyday in a car.
    No ticket yet. :confused:


  • #924
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Just to put the range of these speed vans to bed.
    Have a look at this video.
    At 48seconds you can see the Infra Red flash from the roof of the van.
    That's how close you have to be before your speed/pic

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRS7ev_efxc


  • #925
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    People they catch must be busy checking facebook!


  • #926
    pm.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭pm.


    mikeecho wrote: »
    Just to put the range of these speed vans to bed.
    Have a look at this video.
    At 48seconds you can see the Infra Red flash from the roof of the van.
    That's how close you have to be before your speed/pic

    Edit. Oops.. link reveals my personal details.
    I'll upload it to youtube or similar and repost in the morn

    Please do I'd be interested is seeing that


  • #927
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    pm. wrote: »
    Please do I'd be interested is seeing that

    It's up and running now.


  • #928
    Aston martin
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Aston martin


    I thought in Ireland , you are innocence until found guilty,!!!!! If you go to court and you weren't speeding there are some people who are caught and weren't how do you prove you weren't .. only way is to get an expert in from England that will cost Stg £3500 that's if you can find one thats free on the date of your case.. Over 200,000 people have gone to court saying they didn't get the ticket and get off for free. How is that a fair legal system . In the UK for a conviction the police or GO Safe in Wales need two independent bits of evidence why is that not here in Ireland where they only seem to have one. In UK the Calibration certs are published on line in Ireland you might get a quick flash of a sheet of paper in a court case..
    and told that you need to bring it to another country to get it checked . I understand that the Calibration certs for Go -Safe are supply by the same company that supply the Radars is that fair. Has anyone been caught in Pembroke Road D4 or in Donnybrook driving a VW Crafter ... Wonder how does the picture get from the van to the fines office , real interesting subject .


  • #929
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Aston martin wrote: »
    I thought in Ireland , you are innocence until found guilty,!!!!! .

    Yes , but you can admit guilt by paying the ticket
    Or you can go to court and play it all out.
    Aston martin wrote: »
    I If you go to court and you weren't speeding there are some people who are caught and weren't how do you prove you weren't .. .

    ??? You only have to disprove the evidence against you (not easy)
    Aston martin wrote: »
    only way is to get an expert in from England that will cost Stg £3500 that's if you can find one thats free on the date of your case.. Over 200,000 people have gone to court saying they didn't get the ticket and get off for free. How is that a fair legal system .
    I don't think the legal system was ever described as fair

    Aston martin wrote: »
    In the UK for a conviction the police or GO Safe in Wales need two independent bits of evidence why is that here in Ireland where they only seem to have one. In UK the Calibration certs are published on line in Ireland you might get a quick flash of a sheet of paper in a court case...

    Because there is no legal obligation to prove that the device was callibrated.. however.. believe it or not.. they are all callibrated yearly.. I've seen the certs

    Aston martin wrote: »
    I and told that you need to bring it to another country to get it checked . .

    Neve heard of that happening.

    All of the Garda lti speed guns are callibrated in Dublin..... Would you like the address?
    Aston martin wrote: »
    I I understand that the Calibration certs for Go -Safe are supply by the same company that supply the Radars is that fair.

    It's not uncommon for manufacturers of devices, whether it be speed or medical equipment to calibrate / certify their own equipment.

    .
    Aston martin wrote: »
    I Has anyone been caught in Pembroke Road D4 or in Donnybrook driving a VW Crafter.

    I've no idea

    .
    Aston martin wrote: »
    . Wonder how does the picture get from the van to the fines office , real interesting subject .

    When the van returns to its base the data is uploaded via a secure connection to Garda HQ.... Not that interesting


  • #930
    Aston martin
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Aston martin


    Aston: Not possible to disprove you are not guilty , I would think there hasn't been anyone able to disprove the Radar or equipment evidence was faulty
    you can't look at the contract appointing GO-SAFE ,GO Safe don't have phone Number ? as far as I know its and off shore company based Isle of man.

    Surely as innocence you should be given a fair chance to defend your self , some people get caught and they weren't speeding !!!! Radar manufactories have warning on them that mistakes can happen.

    In UK two separate evidence and two photos in Ireland one photo.

    Its is common that people self regulate but we all know from building regulations in Ireland where people regulated them selfs and there was a mess left behind .

    Say the company that make the radar AGD/Redflex {Redflex are shareholder in Go Safe}
    come along at end of the year to the GO Safe Van and find out that the radar hasn't been calibrating properly for last six months ,
    957 drivers have been caught incorrectly and fined and paid .

    the question I am wondering does Radar company that self regulate by issuing their own certs point out the problem,
    1) does it cost the radar couple hundred thousands and maybe the whole Go Safe company and system collapse
    2) or do the just say all correct , and reissue cert for another 12 months : does anyone know the answer ???

    I can get you certified court extract from an Irish court where the prosecution state clearly the calibration cert used by Go Safe can only be read out of Ireland , Happy to meet you you to show you.

    Interesting I understand that the pictures are uploaded by Redflex software , {Redflex are a third share holder in Go Safe ,}

    There was a very brave Whistle blower in Go-Safe that pointed out , that people had been fined incorrectly , why was he fired ???


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  • #931
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Aston martin wrote: »
    Aston: Not possible to disprove you are not guilty , I would think there hasn't been anyone able to disprove the Radar or equipment evidence was faulty
    you can't look at the contract appointing GO-SAFE ,GO Safe don't have phone Number ? as far as I know its and off shore company based Isle of man.

    Surely as innocence you should be given a fair chance to defend your self , some people get caught and they weren't speeding !!!! Radar manufactories have warning on them that mistakes can happen.

    In UK two separate evidence and two photos in Ireland one photo.

    Its is common that people self regulate but we all know from building regulations in Ireland where people regulated them selfs and there was a mess left behind .

    Say the company that make the radar AGD/Redflex {Redflex are shareholder in Go Safe}
    come along at end of the year to the GO Safe Van and find out that the radar hasn't been calibrating properly for last six months ,
    957 drivers have been caught incorrectly and fined and paid .

    the question I am wondering does Radar company that self regulate by issuing their own certs point out the problem,
    1) does it cost the radar couple hundred thousands and maybe the whole Go Safe company and system collapse
    2) or do the just say all correct , and reissue cert for another 12 months : does anyone know the answer ???

    I can get you certified court extract from an Irish court where the prosecution state clearly the calibration cert used by Go Safe can only be read out of Ireland , Happy to meet you you to show you.

    Interesting I understand that the pictures are uploaded by Redflex software , {Redflex are a third share holder in Go Safe ,}

    There was a very brave Whistle blower in Go-Safe that pointed out , that people had been fined incorrectly , why was he fired ???

    Lots of , if's, buts, maybes and I think.

    I don't know where you're going with this.


  • #932
    Mc Love
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,015 ✭✭✭✭Mc Love


    Any idea how to get the revenue collectors on a road close to where I live?


  • #933
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Mc Love wrote: »
    Any idea how to get the revenue collectors on a road close to where I live?

    This is the speed camera thread. You are looking for taxation.


  • #934
    rabbitinlights
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,008 ✭✭✭rabbitinlights


    Aston martin wrote: »
    Aston: Not possible to disprove you are not guilty , I would think there hasn't been anyone able to disprove the Radar or equipment evidence was faulty
    you can't look at the contract appointing GO-SAFE ,GO Safe don't have phone Number ? as far as I know its and off shore company based Isle of man.

    Surely as innocence you should be given a fair chance to defend your self , some people get caught and they weren't speeding !!!! Radar manufactories have warning on them that mistakes can happen.

    In UK two separate evidence and two photos in Ireland one photo.

    Its is common that people self regulate but we all know from building regulations in Ireland where people regulated them selfs and there was a mess left behind .

    Say the company that make the radar AGD/Redflex {Redflex are shareholder in Go Safe}
    come along at end of the year to the GO Safe Van and find out that the radar hasn't been calibrating properly for last six months ,
    957 drivers have been caught incorrectly and fined and paid .

    the question I am wondering does Radar company that self regulate by issuing their own certs point out the problem,
    1) does it cost the radar couple hundred thousands and maybe the whole Go Safe company and system collapse
    2) or do the just say all correct , and reissue cert for another 12 months : does anyone know the answer ???

    I can get you certified court extract from an Irish court where the prosecution state clearly the calibration cert used by Go Safe can only be read out of Ireland , Happy to meet you you to show you.

    Interesting I understand that the pictures are uploaded by Redflex software , {Redflex are a third share holder in Go Safe ,}

    There was a very brave Whistle blower in Go-Safe that pointed out , that people had been fined incorrectly , why was he fired ???

    You should get caught speeding and then use all your well researched information to bring down the system.


  • #935
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    In UK two separate evidence and two photos in Ireland one photo.

    There is a lot of error in your post to go through but I'll focus on this for now. You are comparing two different systems. In the UK, and Ireland when we had them, there were two photos from fixed cameras. Why? It was a fixed camera with lines painted on the road. So the two photos were your car in two positions hence distance (From the lines on the road) and time between photos gives you verification of speed to the radar reading.

    This does not apply for GoSafe in Ireland or any camera system that is mobile.

    With respect to your core argument, you are forgetting that the Irish statute has no requirement for equipment to be validated or calibrated. Is this insane? Yes. But it's the law and until that law is examined and challenged (Read 'deep pockets' and 'days in the supreme court') then it's not going to change. Therefore we can wax lyrical on here and present hypotheticals but the second you land in front of a judge, they'll point out that statute and you'll hear a gavel not in your favour.


  • #936
    Aston martin
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Aston martin


    ironclaw wrote: »
    There is a lot of error in your post to go through but I'll focus on this for now. You are comparing two different systems. In the UK, and Ireland when we had them, there were two photos from fixed cameras. Why? It was a fixed camera with lines painted on the road. So the two photos were your car in two positions hence distance (From the lines on the road) and time between photos gives you verification of speed to the radar reading.

    reply :Thanks for clarification on the two photos , but still in UK they require two bits of evidence but as you say we are in Ireland so its not the same standard.

    This does not apply for GoSafe in Ireland or any camera system that is mobile.
    Reply: Is there a Video of the speeding cars ?

    There was a case in Thurles before judge Elizabeth Mcgrath threw a case out said only one picture and the case was reported on RTE radio 1 Sean O Rourke show.

    If you were to go before the Ennis court the Judge seems to have a great understanding of the law and does a great job
    and dismiss a lot of case he is not happy with, in fairness to the local solicitors they do a great job and argue for the clients and put up strong legal arguments ..

    With respect to your core argument, you are forgetting that the Irish statute has no requirement for equipment to be validated or calibrated. Is this insane? Yes. But it's the law and until that law is examined and challenged (Read 'deep pockets' and 'days in the supreme court') then it's not going to change. Therefore we can wax lyrical on here and present hypotheticals but the second you land in front of a judge, they'll point out that statute and you'll hear a gavel not in your favour.

    Agree totally with you the law is written that you are guilty as doesn't allow or consider any errors which are possible .


    Please point out any other errors you think as this is a discussion board so please let me know


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  • #937
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    On an unrelated note .

    Is it a record that this is an 8yr old thread, yet still relevant, and Still active.

    Bula Bus to ironclaw


  • #938
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Is there a Video of the speeding cars ?

    There is video, but it would be useless as you have no fixed reference point i.e. Lines painted on the road.
    There was a case in Thurles before judge Elizabeth Mcgrath threw a case out said only one picture and the case was reported on RTE radio 1 Sean O Rourke show.

    I can't find the judgement/news article but I'm guessing that relates to the permanent record precident? I'd need to read the case notes to see what was actually discussed but there is plenty of judgements in favour of GoSafe and speeding in general in Ireland.


  • #939
    Aston martin
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Aston martin


    Thanks very much Ironclaw, Maybe the video could help people in there defence, there are plenty measurement in an urban setting , tress, lines on road ,bus stops ,pot holes drains , other cars in the picture that may also be speeding , items that can reflect the radar ,radar reflection Video may also show Van may parked on a grass verge just after a comer they don't always park in great places , or the van parked on a slope

    The program was Sean O Rourke and Paddy O Gorman said case dismissed by judge as there was not two photos case heard Thurles court before a very good Judge Elizabeth McGrath broadcast on the main Irish National radio RTE 1 on 26.09.18 at about 6 mins and 50 secs
    you can search it in the RTE player under Thurles you need Adobe to listen to it or you may find it on the RTE link https://rte.ie/r.html?rii=b9_21437788_15036_26-09-2018_


  • #940
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    The above highlights, at least to me, that you may not have a great understanding of how this technology works.
    there are plenty measurement in an urban setting , tress, lines on road ,bus stops ,pot holes drains

    Taking aside the rural setting with no point of reference, you would need to know the distance between the van, car and every object in the snap, exactly. Contrast to Fixed Gatso, the lines on the road are painted in a tight tolerance and the system is in a known location in relation to these lines. The same is said for Red Light cameras. The measurements are exact. Likewise, you have two points of evidence, a radar reading and an entirely separate timing element for the camera to measure the time between snaps, which show the lines on the road, hence the two pieces of evidence are comparable.

    A video doesn't aid your defence in the slightest as there is no way of knowing, with great accuracy, how fast you were travelling from the footage.

    Remember, if you are in front of a judge, the chances are you were close to the limit and likely far over it given the tolerance to actually get a ticket. Hence, if your video footage is say +/- 10% accurate, which would be generous, you are not helping your case.
    other cars in the picture that may also be speeding

    RedFlex makes systems that are capable of tracking multiple 'targets' and the presence of other cars doesn't influence the reading. To give an example of the complexity, the system can measure the length of a car.
    items that can reflect the radar ,radar reflection

    This problem has long been solved by the engineering of the system itself. Radar has come a long way since the 1940's and even consumer based radar systems have extreme fault tolerance to this. You need only look at self-driving cars and radar-based cruise controls.
    may also show Van may parked on a grass verge just after a comer they don't always park in great places , or the van parked on a slope

    This has no impact on the van as the system and the system is calibrated prior to being used. If you ever have the good fortune of seeing a van being set up, you'll see a small tripod out the back. This calibration is what is occurring and was the focus of the investigation (I think Prime Time) a few years ago.

    In closing, anyone who reads my post history will notice I'm not the greatest fan of these cameras but I'm generally of the opinion, from every ounce of research I've done, that if someone ends up in front of a judge for a speeding ticket, they probably deserve to be there. Trying to get off on a technicality is not a mature way to act on the road. If someone is speeding, at least accept there is a possibility you will get caught and when you do get caught, pay the piper. Of course, that does not apply if someone was genuinely not speeding but the chances of that happening are very, very low.

    My personal recommendation is to expend your energy in fitting to your own car a method of determining your own speed accurately (Read 'race spec gps not cheap china dvr') and when you get caught, check your speed. If you were over, pay the fine, if you were under, try to fight it on those terms.


  • #941
    Aston martin
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Aston martin


    Thanks ironclaw,

    Very helpful, and have you have great knowledge I will look at 'race spec gps sounds interesting , as I don't speed hopefully won't get caught unless in error by a Go Safe/Garda and could use this in defence but don't think it would be accepted.

    A video could work clearly in anyones defence with some accuracy as if you play the video , two cars traveling opposite directions closely within 3 to 5 ft of each other in a very urban setting loads of reflections one doing car 30kph and one car doing 65kph radar makes a mistake or the software makes a mistake or operator makes a mistake, wrong car caught.
    it’s very easy to see simply from the footage which car was speeding not rocket science .

    There is only one way you can get off if you are innocent , that's to say you didn't get the summons (No penalty points no cost over 250,000 people have done this it’s easy)

    The other way is go to court explain under oath that you are not guilty, you can't prove the radar wasn't working properly as law states it was ,if you had loads of money you can get an radar expert from UK , Stg £3,500 for the day
    DPP will asks then for new date so you might have another day at Stg £3,500 Total Stg £7,000 and you might get off on technically issue its very unfair as you have to be rich to get expert.

    if you louse you get 3 points plus 2 points for saying your innocent and remember you weren't speeding.

    It is possible to get caught when driving carefully and not over the speed limit and many many other offenses that you’re not guilty off and the Garda have mentioned before that over 14,000 errors have happened https://www.odwyersolicitors.ie/garda-error-on-traffic-convictions/

    This came out at the time of the 2,000,000 (yes Two million) drink drive tests that were falsified illegally as they didn't happen as before mentioned the brave GO Safe whistle blower who tried to tell the truth ,why was he fired ? its covered here https://www.thejournal.ie/wrongly-fined-1393534-Apr2014

    Did you get a chance to listen to the Sean O Rourke link , ? wonder why the judge was looking for two photos ?


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  • #942
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Aston martin wrote: »
    Thanks ironclaw,

    Very helpful, and have you have great knowledge I will look at 'race spec gps sounds interesting , as I don't speed hopefully won't get caught unless in error by a Go Safe/Garda and could use this in defence but don't think it would be accepted.

    A video could work clearly in your defence with some accuracy as if you play the video , two cars traveling opposite directions closely within 3 ft of each other in a very urban setting loads of reflections one doing car 30kph and one car doing 65kph radar makes a mistake or the software makes a mistake wrong car caught
    it’s very easy to see from the footage which car was speeding.

    There is only one way you can get off if you are innocent , that's to say you didn't get the summons (No penalty points no cost over 250,000 people have done this it’s easy)

    The other way is go to court explain under oath that you are not guilty, you can't prove the radar wasn't working properly as law states it was ,if you had loads of money you can get an radar expert from UK , Stg £3,500 for the day
    DPP will asks then for new date so you might have another day at Stg £3,500 Total Stg £7,000 and you might get off on technically issue its very unfair as you have to be rich to get expert.

    if you louse you get 3 points plus 2 points for saying your innocent and remember you weren't speeding.

    It is possible to get caught when driving carefully and not over the speed limit and many many other offenses that you’re not guilty off and the Garda have mentioned before that over 14,000 errors have happened https://www.odwyersolicitors.ie/garda-error-on-traffic-convictions/

    This came out at the time of the 2,000,000 (yes Two million) drink drive tests that were falsified illegally as they didn't happen as before mentioned the brave GO Safe whistle blower who tried to tell the truth ,why was he fired ? its covered here https://www.thejournal.ie/wrongly-fined-1393534-Apr2014

    Did you get a chance to listen to the Sean O Rourke link , ? wonder why the judge was looking for two photos ?

    The new dual radar systems are pretty accurate.

    You've very very unlikely to be caught incorrectly.

    If you get a ticket, .. just pay it. The chances of being incorrectly recorded are so very very small that the eliminate of doubt is so dismisminhed, you wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of successfully contrasting it.

    But. Like so many posters before that claim that they will contest.. you'll never hear a follow up.

    If you're caught. You're caught.

    Take your medicine


  • #943
    pauldavis123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 354 ✭✭pauldavis123


    Are there any radar detectors to alert you to the presence of these dual radar systems?


  • #944
    Aston martin
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Aston martin


    Thanks mikeecho,

    i am in general pro speed traps (not Goldfish ones ) and people should not speed.

    Agree totaly with you if you are speeding and caught speeding , simply pay the fine simply easy.

    If you were not speeding then you should have an option of going to court and telling the truth, unless you are prepared to say you were guility
    when you weren't and pay a fine that is not due really good idea.

    Remember other option if you go to court you get off automatically very simply " say i didn't get the fine.." takes a few minutes 250,000 have done this successfully its great.

    But in Ireland "The presumption of innocence is the legal principle that one is considered innocent unless proven guilty" the speed laws overwrite that you could be innocence and found guilty, does anyone know what counties in Europe have the same law just out of interest

    The dual radars are very good very advanced, but every radar has limits and is outlined clearly for all radars that in a urban environment . tress trucks .buses , houses, metal surfaces they can make mistakes, they also can have mistakes made by the operator, clearly this has happened as reported in the national papers with the Go safe whistle blower who said he made a mistake.. got fired for telling the truth. Not an easy job sitting in a van for 8 hours no toilet two radars beside you and with loads batteries
    looking at a screen in the dark no sun light hot on your own no social interaction a very unhealthy job... quite easy to make a human error.

    If you make an error point it out and become a whistle blower you get fired as is reported in national papers

    Any Go-Safe people on here could update us how it is in the back of the van on a hot summers day , don't think they have air conditioning


  • #945
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    pauldavis123 wrote: »
    Are there any radar detectors to alert you to the presence of these dual radar systems?

    There are, but because of the way that gosafe radar operates , it's difficult to detect.
    You'll be looking at specialist systems that cost well in excess of €1,000.

    Not worth the investment, better to use your eyes and a bit of common sense


  • #946
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    mikeecho wrote: »
    There are, but because of the way that gosafe radar operates , it's difficult to detect.
    You'll be looking at specialist systems that cost well in excess of €1,000.

    Not worth the investment, better to use your eyes and a bit of common sense

    Very much seconded.

    As I've said a few times on this thread, it's far cheaper to slow down and keep an eye out. If you get caught with one, the sound of the book hitting you will be heard in Timbuktu.


  • #947
    Aston martin
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Aston martin


    Is this the same RedFlex company that own a third of Go-Safe in Ireland

    https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-based-redflex-photo-radar-firm-to-pay-20-million-to-chicago-for-bribery-scheme-9059028


  • #948
    ironclaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    Aston martin wrote: »
    Is this the same RedFlex company that own a third of Go-Safe in Ireland

    https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-based-redflex-photo-radar-firm-to-pay-20-million-to-chicago-for-bribery-scheme-9059028

    Yes, RedFlex are based in Arizona but they supply all over the world. You need to be careful regarding their US track record as laws/protections and other sundries are very different, even more so state to state.


  • #949
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    ironclaw wrote: »
    Yes, RedFlex are based in Arizona but they supply all over the world. You need to be careful regarding their US track record as laws/protections and other sundries are very different, even more so state to state.

    Might be time to call a day on this thread.

    Maybe.. just maybe if ironclaw has the time, we might get (pretty please) an updated new thread, with lots of FAQ's answered, and info on ANPR average speed cams..

    It'll take a bit of work.


  • #950
    Aston martin
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Aston martin


    worth searching on the web on this one
    America is a great country.

    https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/karen-finley-ex-ceo-of-redflex-pleads-guilty-to-bribery-7425914
    Seems from this article a whistle blower helped , around the world whistle blowers can do a lot of good we had it here with a brave Garda Sargent.

    Anyway to move back to Ireland and the difference Ireland and UK it seems in the UK Radar vans have a rear opening window
    the reason why the window opens is that the radar can be deflected when used through glass ,it may also be possible that there is radar reflection back into the van, this surely wouldn't be helpful to the operator.

    In the UK vans also have additional air conditioning which must be good under health and safety for a hot day .

    Any GOSafe experts know why are the van windows in Ireland not open like in the UK ?


  • #951
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Aston martin wrote: »
    worth searching on the web on this one
    America is a great country.

    https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/karen-finley-ex-ceo-of-redflex-pleads-guilty-to-bribery-7425914
    Seems from this article a whistle blower helped , around the world whistle blowers can do a lot of good we had it here with a brave Garda Sargent.

    Anyway to move back to Ireland and the difference Ireland and UK it seems in the UK Radar vans have a rear opening window
    the reason why the window opens is that the radar can be deflected when used through glass ,it may also be possible that there is radar reflection back into the van, this surely wouldn't be helpful to the operator.

    In the UK vans also have additional air conditioning which must be good under health and safety for a hot day .

    Any GOSafe experts know why are the van windows in Ireland not open like in the UK ?

    They use laser guns in the van in the UK,
    images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQxV6xpjtNlNuYj5McObUMsTNcese5Gl4KQon5eDZCE2vNu9qA9


    It's a radar unit in Ireland.


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