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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Excellent. I love a project like that. Just be careful of the old confirmation bias.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Mick Tator


    Military records should show a next-of -kin, so that would be another bit of evidential proof.

    Seasons greetings to everyone; hopefully 2021 will see us getting out and about more regularly and easily. I've a couple of old books to review in the NLI - I'm terrified to conclude a research piece just in case all the indicators I have accepted might have led me to an incorrect conclusion!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I've just found an absolutely surreal coincidence

    Searching for a death record for my partners great-great-grandfather, I noticed the probable death record for his son of the same name. Definitely him, and the informant is his brother in law / partners great grandfather.

    The record directly above it is the same informant (same address) for the death of his own mother a few days earlier. Confirms her somewhat strange first name and gives me a confirmed census record of the family.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,264 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I have BNA if you wanted a quick sweep.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    Mick Tator wrote: »

    Seasons greetings to everyone; hopefully 2021 will see us getting out and about more regularly!

    Same to yourself and your family, especially Dick and Tess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Mick Tator


    tabbey wrote: »
    Same to yourself and your family, especially Dick and Tess.
    Thanks Tabbey,
    The twins Agi & Iri also send love, as does Uncle Anno. (Due to Covid Auntie Stenu is isolated but I'm sure she'd say "Hi!".)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Got my AncestryDNA results back; lots of matches to work through and a brick wall probably down it seems - only because the person I was talking to on the other side got his father to do a test; who is matching - his own test didn't!

    The ethnicity is very, very - almost disturbingly - accurate to where my fathers family are from. Not one element of my mothers; even though I have matches on that side. Is this normal?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Well, see previous discussions, it's taking the county level from trees from your matches, not your actual DNA. Mine shows a bunch of counties that I have confirmed ancestry in too.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I've huge volumes of matches on my mother's side with accurate county info - I'd be expecting Tipperary to have a significant impact from that. Odd anyway.

    The match that didn't make it one generation down was 5th (him) versus 4th once removed (his father) so pushing it. His research going back further is not of a documentary standard I'd be happy with doing myself now but better than I'd have done five years ago


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I specifically wanted to find a connection to that other user; and now have - slightly dearer than I'd like to have spent but its done now.


    I noticed some suggestions (edit: hints system not DNA, they were there already) for someone, no idea what relation, with a putative ScotlandsPeople entry for a marriage for the great grandparents I had most trouble getting further back on. I knew they'd worked in Scotland but never looked for a wedding there.

    Has to be them; gives me his mother's much rarer maiden name and I've managed to find a 1901 census record and a few birth and wedding certs - plus someone with his parents on her tree but inchorently, in a manner that'd suggest his father was married five times! Was widow on the wedding cert so twice definitely...

    edit: there was a post above this I was replying to, now its gone the start of this post looks very weird!


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    That is great - Ancestry has given me a couple of very valuable hints abroad over the years.

    Finding a marriage in Scotland is wonderful since they give so much detail.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Using some down time while waiting to see if any DNA matches reply to me to find certs that would have cost money and/or been impossible to track down in the past (common names)

    I'm able to track my great-great-grandfathers career in the DSER via his kids birth certs - ticket collector - clerk - assistant station master - station master. I'd intended to go to the IRRS to see if they had records but I may have found as much info via certs as they could give me!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭kanadams123


    I have just compiled a list of 134 first cousins of my Great- grandmother from county Cork!
    I was lucky to be provided with some hand written information from a 3rd cousin of mine. The information on these pages - was provided orally by one of the brothers of my great-grandmother many years ago to his son - who wrote it as he spoke.
    It took a while - but I found records to confirm all the information - and I was quite surprised with the accuracy of the verbal information. It is great as there is some information on the notes that would be impossible to find out via BMD records or census records etc.

    My great grandmothee's mother came from a family of 8 - each married with at least 10 children each. Similar situation with her paternal side.

    I plan to now compile the information into a book and provide it to as many relatives as I can!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Can you imagine finding all the requisite records in

    a: the RootsIreland pay per view, pay per search era or even worse,
    b: the pre-Internet era of GRO paper indices, search fees and cert fees


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭kanadams123


    L1011 wrote: »
    Can you imagine finding all the requisite records in

    a: the RootsIreland pay per view, pay per search era or even worse,
    b: the pre-Internet era of GRO paper indices, search fees and cert fees

    I would never have been able to do that with this particular family! Mother's side was the surname Sullivan/O'Sullivan - father was McCarthy !! Popular names of the cousins include Ellen, Mary, Con, John , Denis etc. ! Could the names get any more common ?!!
    In some cases I had to browse through 70/80 records on irishgeneaology before finding the right one!

    It goes to show how lucky we are to have these records on irishgeneaology available to us at a click !
    I am forever grateful for this and the work put in to have these available!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Mick Tator


    L1011 wrote: »
    Can you imagine finding all the requisite records in

    a: the RootsIreland pay per view, pay per search era or even worse,
    b: the pre-Internet era of GRO paper indices, search fees and cert fees
    I fully agree. Were I to have paid €5 per BMD cert looked at since Christmas I’d have spent well more than €1,000. Add to that my views of the Will Calendars and the Censuses and it’s probably near the same again. (Well, I would not have done it were it not free!:))

    However, it has been a fascinating bit of research – I’m working on a family story that dates to the 1870’s – a widow, somehow ancestrally related to my mother’s line, who married as a second husband my 2nd great uncle, was again widowed and subsequently remarried twice, the issue of the third marriage also intermarried with distant cousins. What I've discovered so far is the complex web of relationships that existed within a trade (victuallers), local community and an extended family grouping in the second half of the 19thC.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    That sounds like it would make a great article or presentation!

    I just finished some work for a client where one of the ancestors was married four times. 2 of his wives were sisters. At least 13 children. The last wife outlived him.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭mindhorn


    Speaking of articles/presentations, has anyone ever tried their hand at putting together some sort of family book? It would be nice to put what I've researched so far into some digestible format instead of family tress/reports/etc. Feel free to post links to other public examples as I'm looking for a bit of inspiration at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    Good topic! A subject I have struggled with... There are a few 'stand out' characters and a family tree chart does not do justice to their lives. I have thought of doing a novel type approach for them? Again pure luck to have discovered extra information on their lives. Thus perhaps unfair to highlight them as others had their stories too. Just to have survived to pass on life to next generation, sufficient to honour them, especially when you see the rough times the relatively poor had in 19th century and the millions who died in wars of the 20th century.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Mick Tator


    mindhorn wrote: »
    Speaking of articles/presentations, has anyone ever tried their hand at putting together some sort of family book? It would be nice to put what I've researched so far into some digestible format instead of family tress/reports/etc. Feel free to post links to other public examples as I'm looking for a bit of inspiration at the moment.

    There are several ‘family history’ examples online - the. best link to them is through links on this blogspot. (It’s a good portal for other sites also.)
    Turtle Bunburry has a few on there and you can see how he tackles it. Many of the books are dated, rather Victorian in language/format but you will get ideas.

    I’ve made a start by preparing a timeline of historical events – start at your earliest ancestor and describe what was happening in Ireland at that time with emphasis on the area in which they lived. For example (for 1900 onwards-
    1903 The Wyndham Act
    1905 Foundation of Sinn Fein
    1906 Home Rule / Redmond
    1914 / 18 The Great War
    1916 The Easter Rising
    1920 The War of Independence The Black and Tans
    1921 The Treaty Departure of the British
    1922 The Army Split and the Civil War

    Loads of stuff to cover there,

    I then took the key biographical detail of as many individuals as possible and working them up into a ‘brief bio’ format. For an idea of this have a look at the IGRS site – about 50 historic stories/bios by members.

    Next I interwove those stories into the timeline, outlining their roles (if he/she had one) in particular events. Don’t forget to put in photos, maps, etc. where possible. Readers love the salacious stuff, premarital pregnancies, petty sessions reports, crimes.

    Still a work in progress, a long way from finished.


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭mindhorn


    That's great, thanks Mick. Bookmarked both of those pages and have taken note of all of the above, especially including historical events to add some context.

    I found this book earlier today and it's sort of what I have in mind. Obviously they're fortunate to have an abundance of family photographs, so I'll have less of those but more newspaper clippings relevant to the area at the time.

    How are you handling citations and sources?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    Great inspiration there! and I have Daly in my lineage too but not the ones in that book....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Mick Tator


    mindhorn wrote: »
    .............I found this book earlier today and it's sort of what I have in mind. Obviously they're fortunate to have an abundance of family photographs,...........How are you handling citations and sources?
    It’s a good question and I’ve not yet fully decided. For the moment I’ve gone with the format of putting all my source notes as endnotes because I believe they interrupt the flow when they are footnotes and are a hindrance there to all except nerds. Keep the endnotes for sources, not for descriptive text. Check a style manual and keep to the same format for all notes (there are rules, use them from the outset). When I get an opportunity, I just write stuff, often roughly and cutting/pasting from the ‘person notes’ on my FTM tree. Get it down ‘on paper’ (hard drive), you can strip it out/tidy it up eventually. The important thing is to get it written down. You will be surprised at the large amount you have!

    Are you writing your book with a view to it being given free to family or sold to them? That will govern your two choices, you write one for genealogists or you write one that will entertain and educate your relatives about their ancestry (i.e. one that will be read/ sold!). The former would be quite turgid were it filled with copies of every BMD cert and riddled with source notes. The latter would include just one or two ‘typical’ GRO certs (e.g. with a note saying this is the first of the family registered when compulsory registration was brought in during 1864). Then contrast that with an image of the spidery writing Parish register variety. Or perhaps use a cert if it has interesting sponsors or witnesses. (E.g., Sponsor Jim, an uncle of the newborn, later married sponsor Mary, they emigrated and are the ancestors of the family now in Brooklyn, NY.) Try to stitch all together, make it a narrative if possible. I can go back quite far, so have branches in a few countries and I give each of them a chapter (eventually!).

    I don’t like the book you linked to, it’s more of a photo album, not a family story. It shows that an abundance of photos can be a hindrance! Nor do I like the trees or the way the maps are included – a county map showing where marriage partners/families hailed from make much more sense, showing distances between homesteads and- even better - a larger scale one of the townlands on which the family is centred. (Or if urban, e.g. a Dublin docker family.showing streets and proximity to work area.) But I see little point in having large-scale maps unless they really illustrate a point. Same with census data – strip it to an image of the family entry if they are sharing a house, no point in including the people on the same landing! People love newspaper clippings, although not all are easily reproduced.
    Photos – if you don’t have them you can use images from Wiki that are not copyright. I have ancestors who were ‘active’ in the War of Independence and in writing about them I included a piece on a distant relative who had a pub in Cork in the early 1900’s that was destroyed in the ‘Burning of Cork’ in 1920 - I’ve no photo of them, so just used a photo of smouldering city ruins to illustrate their story and it is more evocative than an image of a few uniformed soldiers/Tans. Works fine! Family photos can be over-rated, too many of the same individuals is plain boring. They need to be edited, it’s a book not a photo album.

    Start, keep writing and polish it periodically (but not too often)!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I've found what looks to be a rather extreme case of aging between two data points - 3x great grandfather is 70 in the 1901 census (only likely record)... and 100 when he dies in 1907!

    Registrar appears to share incredulity with that.


    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Nenagh_Rural/Tullahedy/1697348/

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05538/4552856.pdf


    Local newspaper obit - article not a notice - says he was 100 too, so I really don't know which is trustable.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I've seen other people who were 100 on death with it circled. Maybe the clerk was just saying "OMG COOL"

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    L1011 wrote: »
    I've found what looks to be a rather extreme case of aging between two data points - 3x great grandfather is 70 in the 1901 census (only likely record)... and 100 when he dies in 1907!

    Registrar appears to share incredulity with that.


    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Nenagh_Rural/Tullahedy/1697348/

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05538/4552856.pdf


    Local newspaper obit - article not a notice - says he was 100 too, so I really don't know which is trustable.

    Are you sure it's the same man?
    Did he have family in the town house, or was it a nursing home?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Plunkett Street is an area / sub-townland name in Tullaheady not an actual street, weirdly. Suspect it was the name given to the old Limerick road but it never really worked out like that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 311 ✭✭srmf5


    My great grandfather in the 10 years between 1901 and 1911 became a year younger. In 1901, he was recorded as 26 but was actually 22. In 1911, he was recorded as 25 but was actually 32. I'm suspicious that part of the reason for the discrepancy in 1911 was because he had only married less than two months before the census and his wife was 20 (although recorded as 19 in the census and recorded as 21 on the marriage). His age was correct on his death cert anyway.

    I think that there might have been some sort of a transcription error on the civil death register for my 2x great grandfather. In 1901, he was recorded as 75 but was 77. In 1911, he was recorded as 86 but was actually 87. When he died later in 1911, he was 88. However, his son registered his age as 66. I looked at the register to see if it was actually two eights but it definitely looks like two sixes. I could easily see how someone could mistaken an 8 for a 6 depending on the writing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭mindhorn


    Mick Tator wrote: »
    It’s a good question and I’ve not yet fully decided. For the moment I’ve gone with the format of putting all my source notes as endnotes because I believe they interrupt the flow when they are footnotes and are a hindrance there to all except nerds. Keep the endnotes for sources, not for descriptive text. Check a style manual and keep to the same format for all notes (there are rules, use them from the outset). When I get an opportunity, I just write stuff, often roughly and cutting/pasting from the ‘person notes’ on my FTM tree. Get it down ‘on paper’ (hard drive), you can strip it out/tidy it up eventually. The important thing is to get it written down. You will be surprised at the large amount you have!

    Are you writing your book with a view to it being given free to family or sold to them? That will govern your two choices, you write one for genealogists or you write one that will entertain and educate your relatives about their ancestry (i.e. one that will be read/ sold!). The former would be quite turgid were it filled with copies of every BMD cert and riddled with source notes. The latter would include just one or two ‘typical’ GRO certs (e.g. with a note saying this is the first of the family registered when compulsory registration was brought in during 1864). Then contrast that with an image of the spidery writing Parish register variety. Or perhaps use a cert if it has interesting sponsors or witnesses. (E.g., Sponsor Jim, an uncle of the newborn, later married sponsor Mary, they emigrated and are the ancestors of the family now in Brooklyn, NY.) Try to stitch all together, make it a narrative if possible. I can go back quite far, so have branches in a few countries and I give each of them a chapter (eventually!).

    I don’t like the book you linked to, it’s more of a photo album, not a family story. It shows that an abundance of photos can be a hindrance! Nor do I like the trees or the way the maps are included – a county map showing where marriage partners/families hailed from make much more sense, showing distances between homesteads and- even better - a larger scale one of the townlands on which the family is centred. (Or if urban, e.g. a Dublin docker family.showing streets and proximity to work area.) But I see little point in having large-scale maps unless they really illustrate a point. Same with census data – strip it to an image of the family entry if they are sharing a house, no point in including the people on the same landing! People love newspaper clippings, although not all are easily reproduced.
    Photos – if you don’t have them you can use images from Wiki that are not copyright. I have ancestors who were ‘active’ in the War of Independence and in writing about them I included a piece on a distant relative who had a pub in Cork in the early 1900’s that was destroyed in the ‘Burning of Cork’ in 1920 - I’ve no photo of them, so just used a photo of smouldering city ruins to illustrate their story and it is more evocative than an image of a few uniformed soldiers/Tans. Works fine! Family photos can be over-rated, too many of the same individuals is plain boring. They need to be edited, it’s a book not a photo album.

    Start, keep writing and polish it periodically (but not too often)!

    Thanks. I'm definitely not going with the footnotes option as agreed, more of a hindrance. Writing it with a view to giving it for free to some family members. I was originally planning to include all the certificates I have but it may be a bit overkill. I'll start compiling and see how it looks after a handful of pages.

    Like I said, it's sort of what I have in mind but not exactly what I'm planning to do. The photo album aspect doesn't bother me - an abundance of photos may be a hindrance but if used correctly then they add a whole lot to it IMO. I have some sortware that I use that generate various trees/reports so my plan is to incorporate them into the book.

    Naive of me but didn't even consider the issue of copyright as this will be for immediate family members only. I was taking some screenshots of some old maps/photos without even giving it a second thought.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭kanadams123


    In my experience - the age of death on death certs tend to be the most accurate - especially in comparison to Census ages and other sources.
    - obviously that's not always the case - but in general - death ages for me are usually spot on.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    Depends on the relationship of the person to the deceased. I have two cases 1959 and 1937 in Dublin where son supplied the information and age out by c 7 yrs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    In my experience - the age of death on death certs tend to be the most accurate - especially in comparison to Census ages and other sources.
    - obviously that's not always the case - but in general - death ages for me are usually spot on.

    Age at death is most unreliable.
    Even today, the informant often does not know the age of the deceased when registering the death. If the informant was asked again a couple of weeks later, a different age would often be given.
    In the 19th century It was even more unreliable.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Totally agree: death is by far the most inaccurate.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Scanning Ancestry's transcriptions of the NLI registers and I've noticed that, at least in part, the transcriber has put the made-up surname "Flancuss" in for what I'm fairly sure is Flannery / Flanery. Repeatedly in fact, but not consistently

    Suspect I won't find what I want as I think the births are in the missing 1810-1830; but with that quality of transcription who knows!


    edit: Just after posting, I've found someone that may be a sister of the two men I'm looking for, mistranscribed of course.

    edit2: despite the NLI saying they have baptisms 1792-1809, 1830- its actually 1792-1797, 1809, 1830 - so I suspect bugger all chance of every finding what I want; although that probably sister was a bonus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭kanadams123


    tabbey wrote: »
    Age at death is most unreliable.
    Even today, the informant often does not know the age of the deceased when registering the death. If the informant was asked again a couple of weeks later, a different age would often be given.
    In the 19th century It was even more unreliable.

    Perhaps it's just with my own ancestors then. Whenever im looking for a birth record - I use age of death and work back. 95% of the time it's within one year of the estimated birth.
    Same when searching for deaths - I search for whatever age the person would have been based on their birth record - and I find the death record exactly.
    In my personal experience the ages on census records are shocking.
    I wont generalise and say it's the same for everyone - but in my experience this is the case. I find death ages very reliable !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Anyone got an FMP sub currently? Looking at the military records for a J H Wainhouse that they have, seems to be three records.

    Should be a James Henry in the 20th Hussars if its the guy I'm looking for.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,264 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    L1011 wrote: »
    Anyone got an FMP sub currently? Looking at the military records for a J H Wainhouse that they have, seems to be three records.

    Should be a James Henry in the 20th Hussars if its the guy I'm looking for.

    Yes it's him, but very little.
    One is an index, showing which page a record is on. The second record is a list of men discharged from Aldershot on 14 March 1885, which says his cause of discharge is 'purchase'. The third record is a long service medal for what I think is a different man, in the Royal Garrison Artillery.

    Looking on fold3 I can't see any attestation papers for him. His attestation date was 20 May 1878 (from record 2).
    PM me an email if you want them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭mindhorn


    Remind me...is there any way to search online for baptism records in the early 1900s?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    mindhorn wrote: »
    Remind me...is there any way to search online for baptism records in the early 1900s?

    Records for some parishes are available.
    What area are you interested in?

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭mindhorn


    A number of different counties - Dublin, Cork, Offaly, Meath, Westmeath...


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,423 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Some parish registers on Irish Genealogy (mostly Kerry and Dublin) go into the 1900's.

    Same for NLI parish registers (mostly Dublin).

    Then there are three sets of parish records on Ancestry with some 20th century coverage.

    - Ireland, Select Catholic Birth and Baptism Registers, 1763-1917
    - Ireland, Select Catholic Marriage Registers, 1778-1942
    - Ireland, Select Catholic Death and Burial Registers, 1767-1992

    There's also Roots Ireland which I think have some coverage but I can't be sure on detail as I don't use it much.

    There might be other sources here and there which others could confirm.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    You can view the county resources page for each county on Rootsireland without a subscription.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Perhaps it's just with my own ancestors then. Whenever im looking for a birth record - I use age of death and work back. 95% of the time it's within one year of the estimated birth.
    Same when searching for deaths - I search for whatever age the person would have been based on their birth record - and I find the death record exactly.
    In my personal experience the ages on census records are shocking.
    I wont generalise and say it's the same for everyone - but in my experience this is the case. I find death ages very reliable !

    Perhaps this has been said before but there are a number of reasons why the age on the Census can be unreliable. First of all, the form asked for age and there were significant increases in years ending 0 and 5. When date of birth became the question, this problem disappeared. Secondly, if people could not read or write the enumerator filled out the form and may well have guessed the age. Thirdly (based on a family I checked) a single man may have understated his age and then reverted to the correct age at the next Census if then married. Lastly, the introduction of he old age pension led to ages being overstated in the hope of getting the pension early.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    The pension age thing is a bit of an urban legend. Age wasn't the only criterion.

    It really comes down to people not having to be precise about their age in the past, so they often didn't know exactly.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    The pension age thing is a bit of an urban legend. Age wasn't the only criterion.

    It really comes down to people not having to be precise about their age in the past, so they often didn't know exactly.

    Try to explain this (no real necessity for paperwork etc)to some people and you would wonder if they actually think you are joking.

    Couple of examples.
    My godfather born c.1930 told me that when he went looking for his baptismal cert in order to get married in adjoining parish the priest couldn't find it.
    He knew his birthday and year but never realised that he was christened (and on civil register )under a totally different given name as to what he was called all his life.Found entry in register and when he asked his mother she told him that she had actually forgotten about it.

    My father never knew exactly what age his own mother was until he went to register her death .This would have been the early 1970's.

    My aunt ,born 1933 had a birth cert dated 14th February and 15th February on passport.
    She was actually born 12th February 1933 as her mothers diary has "Eileen Mary born 12th Feb. at 4:35am weighing x pounds.Presume if anyone should know its the mother !!

    Have in my tree a cousin of my grandfather who died in USA in 1912.
    According to his New York death cert he died 16 March 1912 aged 42 years ie born c.1870.
    His naturalisation paperwork says he was born 1873 while according to his marriage cert he was born in 1871.

    His headstone (mentioned on family tombstone )says he died aged 45 on 20th March 1912 in New York City (actually the day he was buried according to New York paperwork) whilst his memory card (printed in Ireland)states he died 18th March 1912.

    He was born (well baptised anyways) on 14th September 1864 so aged 48 on death.
    No mistake with baptismal or civil birth record as parents on both and no other child born to them with same or even similar names ie name reused for sibling after first child of that name dies at or shortly after birth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭mindhorn


    Hermy wrote: »
    Some parish registers on Irish Genealogy (mostly Kerry and Dublin) go into the 1900's.

    Same for NLI parish registers (mostly Dublin).

    Then there are three sets of parish records on Ancestry with some 20th century coverage.

    - Ireland, Select Catholic Birth and Baptism Registers, 1763-1917
    - Ireland, Select Catholic Marriage Registers, 1778-1942
    - Ireland, Select Catholic Death and Burial Registers, 1767-1992

    There's also Roots Ireland which I think have some coverage but I can't be sure on detail as I don't use it much.

    There might be other sources here and there which others could confirm.
    pinkypinky wrote: »
    You can view the county resources page for each county on Rootsireland without a subscription.

    Thanks both. Unfortunately what I'm looking for isn't covered by the above. So am I all out of options?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I had a 2x great uncle who consistently got his day/month of birth spot on; but used every year between 1881 and 1888 (actual year: 1885) on different documents - and it wasn't being done for age restrictions for things as far as I can tell - and if it was, how on earth would you remember which lie it was?

    Can only guess birthdays were important enough but he couldn't remember his age!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    L1011 wrote: »
    I had a 2x great uncle who consistently got his day/month of birth spot on; but used every year between 1881 and 1888 (actual year: 1885) on different documents - and it wasn't being done for age restrictions for things as far as I can tell - and if it was, how on earth would you remember which lie it was?



    Can only guess birthdays were important enough but he couldn't remember his age!

    Well ,imagine once you were old enough to leave school (think it was 14 when my father was going but not sure) and old enough to marry what else did it matter.
    For the vast majority can imagine it was of no relevancy whether they were 38 or 43 or 49.Passports were only needed once usually ie when you emigrated and no driving licences pps numbers or proof of id for mortgage application.
    Looking at my tree even slight changes to christian name or surname seemed to be of no import.
    My grandmother mentioned above used a few slightly differing versions of her name throughout her life.
    She was variously;
    Eileen Mary Byrne
    Ellen Maria Byrne
    Ellen O Byrne
    Eileen O Byrne
    Nellie Byrne
    Ellen Burns

    These were from passport,renewal form for passport in British Counsel in New York,marriage cert and birth certs of children

    Imagine it would be "computer says no" nowadays


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,675 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    mindhorn wrote: »
    Thanks both. Unfortunately what I'm looking for isn't covered by the above. So am I all out of options?

    Very likely. What year are you talking about?
    Obviously, churches will have more recent records, so if you know the parish, you might be able to talk someone into a search. Some churches have archivists but they tend to be bigger city parishes.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭mindhorn


    I'm looking at 1900 - 1920. Wouldn't be familiar with the majority of the parishes concerned. I might just leave it as it's not essential, more of a case of me being curious. Though I was hoping that I could match some godparents to names I currently have an inkling about.


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