Cycle train

Fighting Tao · 26-01-2019 6:51pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Its not. The parents are still driving to work. They've just got someone else to do the school dropoff for them.

How do you know that they parents drive to work or even work in the first place?

Every school should have something like this operate. It’s delightful to see and happy children should cheer up even the grumpiest of adults in cars.

punisher5112 · 26-01-2019 6:52pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Without the adults protecting the children, cars would speed past them closely and scare and endanger them. Do you think that’s ok?

Not only that some driver's do not have any spacial awareness at all.

I see it a lot where the dithering idiot hasn't a breeze and is within an inch of taking them out.

Charles Babbage · 26-01-2019 6:56pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Cyclists are 'traffic' too and a bicycle is defined as a 'vehicle' in road traffic legislation.

Why differentiate them? Do you see cyclists as some sort of second class road users?

Of course they are, but you cannot proceed on to a roundabout just because the cyclist in front of you had a clear road. It is not clear that they are not doing that, they seem to following the person in front.

This is a disgrace, especially cycling across zebra crossings, which should be reserved for pedestrians, the most vulnerable class of road user. Encouraging children to break the law is never a good plan.

hmmm · 26-01-2019 6:57pm

I see two sides to this.

The parents are right to block the road to protect large numbers of kids on bikes.

On the other hand, it's a bit self indulgent to think your kid and their enjoyment is so important that you can block everyone else going about their business.

As a once off it's fine, but if this becomes a thing they need to have more consideration for other road users.

Fighting Tao · 26-01-2019 6:59pm

hmmm wrote: »

I see two sides to this.

The parents are right to block the road to protect large numbers of kids on bikes.

On the other hand, it's a bit self indulgent to think your kid and their enjoyment is so important that you can block everyone else going about their business.

As a once off it's fine, but if this becomes a thing they need to adhere to the cycle lanes.

Regardless of when I’m in the car, on the bike or on the bus, I get held up by motorists. It’s very self indulgent of them blocking me from going about my business.

Charles Babbage · 26-01-2019 7:01pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Regardless of when I’m in the car, on the bike or on the bus, I get held up by motorists. It’s very self indulgent of them blocking me from going about my business.

If motorists are going about their business lawfully then that is congestion. This film shows people obstructing the road deliberately because they consider their business more important.

loyatemu · 26-01-2019 7:06pm

"cyclists should pull in to let cars pass"

you'd be pulling in every 10 seconds if you followed that advice. Wait until it's safe, then overtake, same as anywhere else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GqCHdG1dLQ

Fighting Tao · 26-01-2019 7:07pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

If motorists are going about their business lawfully then that is congestion. This film shows people obstructing the road deliberately because they consider their business more important.

The people on bikes in the cycle bus are going about their business lawfully (apart from the guy stopping on the roundabout) but I’m sure you agree that him stopping is better than a distracted driver taking out a dozen children. As for crossing at the zebra crossing. I don’t know the road but surely the safety of people should be paramount and if it’s safer then great.

beauf · 26-01-2019 7:18pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

If motorists are going about their business lawfully then that is congestion. This film shows people obstructing the road deliberately because they consider their business more important.

People sitting in a car knowing it's the most congested city in Ireland are deliberately causing congestion.

https://www.thejournal.ie/galway-bad-traffic-3-3727711-Dec2017/

Cyclists are perfectly lawful in using the roundabout as they do.

beauf · 26-01-2019 7:22pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Its not. The parents are still driving to work. They've just got someone else to do the school dropoff for them.

Off the road on this route. Did that really need explaining.

Drivers spend endless threads complaining about school time traffic. Some of it gets removed and they are still complaining.

The only solution to that is stop driving to work and causing your own problem.

Lord Glentoran · 26-01-2019 7:31pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Without the adults protecting the children, cars would speed past them closely and scare and endanger them. Do you think that’s ok?

At what point do young people cease to be wrapped in cotton wool?

beauf · 26-01-2019 7:38pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Of course they are, but you cannot proceed on to a roundabout just because the cyclist in front of you had a clear road. It is not clear that they are not doing that, they seem to following the person in front.

This is a disgrace, especially cycling across zebra crossings, which should be reserved for pedestrians, the most vulnerable class of road user. Encouraging children to break the law is never a good plan.

"...It is not clear that they are not doing that..."

It's a disgrace they might be doing something even if they are not doing it. Lol.

Kids under 12 are not allowed in the road unless accompanied and they aren't allowed to cycle on paths. So pretty much kids aren't allowed to cycle in Ireland.

This in a thread complaining about traffic and congestion. Talk about sawing the branch you're standing on.

Duffryman · 26-01-2019 7:43pm

Going back to the thing about indicators - I phrased my earlier post badly. It's more precise to say there's no penalty set down in law for not using an indicator. Which means that even if you should (or "must") use your indicator, nobody can do anything about it if you don't.

And if anybody wants to contradict me on this one, please point me towards the exact provision in the Road Traffic Act (or anything else) that says otherwise.

Fighting Tao · 26-01-2019 7:48pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

At what point do young people cease to be wrapped in cotton wool?

Probably the most idiotic post ever given what is being spoken about. Next time you are in a train station stand the far side of the yellow line on the platform when an express whizzes by. If you survive, come back here and tell us how you think kids would feel with motor vehicles doing exactly that.

RacoonQueen · 26-01-2019 7:50pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

At what point do young people cease to be wrapped in cotton wool?

As far as cycling on open roads go? When they're old enough to be able to understand how to interpret danger caused by other road users and anticipate the stupid moves people in motor vehicles may make before they make them.

I'm really not surprised there has been negative reaction to this. Does anyone here even drive in Galway and have they been 'inconvenienced' by this?

26-01-2019 8:15pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I'm really not surprised there has been negative reaction to this. Does anyone here even drive in Galway and have they been 'inconvenienced' by this?

On the contrary, the reaction locally has been hugely positive with multiple other schools looking at starting their own cycle bus (that's the actual name, not cycle train).

As for being "inconvenienced", what you are talking about is a road with cars going about 5kmh at this time of the morning.

Locally, nobody is against this and its being seen as a way to motivate the council into finally put in proper, segregated cycling infrastructure.

They are currently finalising plans for additional cycle buses in Remore and Oranmore.

One is starting shortly in Limerick too.

RacoonQueen · 26-01-2019 8:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

On the contrary, the reaction locally has been hugely positive with multiple other schools looking at starting their own cycle bus (that's the actual name, not cycle train).

As for being "inconvenienced", what you are talking about is a road with cars going about 5kmh at this time of the morning.

Locally, nobody is against this and its being seen as a way to motivate the council into finally put in proper, segregated cycling infrastructure.

I was talking about on boards/this thread specifically.

magicbastarder · 26-01-2019 8:55pm

Duffryman wrote: »

Going back to the thing about indicators - I phrased my earlier post badly.

that's one way of saying 'what i wrote was clearly incorrect'.

the_syco · 26-01-2019 8:57pm

How about they make cycle lanes on the paths with laws to remove anything parking on them, and no signs/bus shelters put on them?

magicbastarder · 26-01-2019 9:06pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Yes, but they also need to have respect.

It goes both ways.

this is the attitude i find most bemusing. a child on a bicycle who is probably able to travel faster than the average car at that time (and which probably has the same number of occupants as the bike), is asked to have respect for the car, by getting out of the way; even though it's the car who's utimately causing the slowness in traffic

if a 10 year old on a bike is probably able to maintain about 15km/h without breaking sweat, the worst case scenario, that both the motorist and cyclist are travelling the full 3km in question, the motorist will be stuck behind the bikes for 12 minutes assuming at no point can they pass.
how fast does traffic move in galway at 8:30am?

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2019 11:36pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

If motorists are going about their business lawfully then that is congestion. This film shows people obstructing the road deliberately because they consider their business more important.

I presume you call out every other possible case of obstruction, Charlie? Every time you see a truck or van parked illegally on the path or bike lane to deliver to a shop or restaurant? Every cement mixer or HGV taking up most of the road while delivering to a building site? Every double-parked car while the motorists picks up the dry-cleaning or a Happy Meal?

Because if it's only obstruction by cyclists that you call out, the issue isn't the obstruction.

Lord Glentoran · 27-01-2019 12:39pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Probably the most idiotic post ever given what is being spoken about. Next time you are in a train station stand the far side of the yellow line on the platform when an express whizzes by. If you survive, come back here and tell us how you think kids would feel with motor vehicles doing exactly that.

Overreact much? Seriously though, what’s with the perpetual hand holding of kids who need to be taught personal independence as early as practicable, and not be either molly-coddled or collectivised

Zebra3 · 27-01-2019 12:40pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Probably the most idiotic post ever given what is being spoken about. Next time you are in a train station stand the far side of the yellow line on the platform when an express whizzes by. If you survive, come back here and tell us how you think kids would feel with motor vehicles doing exactly that.

You’re right, we need to remove these speeding death traps as much as possible.

Shai · 27-01-2019 12:44pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Overreact much? Seriously though, what’s with the perpetual hand holding of kids who need to be taught personal independence as early as practicable, and not be either molly-coddled or collectivised

just to be clear, you are advocating for 10 year olds to cycle through Galway morning traffic by themselves, even though a sizable amount of Irish adults claim they don't cycle because they think it's dangerous?

I'm not sure why you think providing adult supervision for children is "molly-coddling". Seems pretty sensible to me.

Fighting Tao · 27-01-2019 12:45pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Overreact much? Seriously though, what’s with the perpetual hand holding of kids who need to be taught personal independence as early as practicable, and not be either molly-coddled or collectivised

So you’re ok to let under 12’s mix with traffic alone just to teach them? :rolleyes:

Twenty Grand · 27-01-2019 12:47pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

You’re right, we need to remove these speeding death traps as much as possible.

Trains?

beauf · 27-01-2019 12:52pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Overreact much? Seriously though, what’s with the perpetual hand holding of kids who need to be taught personal independence as early as practicable, and not be either molly-coddled or collectivised

Legally under 12s are not allowed on the road without supervision.

So in that context what point are you trying to make?

Twenty Grand · 27-01-2019 1:03pm

beauf wrote: »

Legally under 12s are not allowed on the road without supervision.

So in that context what point are you trying to make?

That's not true.

Lord Glentoran · 27-01-2019 1:14pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

That's not true.

Indeed. It’s what some posters think is true, is more important.

Shai · 27-01-2019 1:23pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Indeed. It’s what some posters think is true, is more important.

wanna answer the question about whether you want 10 year olds cycling by themselves through Galway's morning rush hour? or do you just wanna pretend you didn't see it?

AndrewJRenko · 27-01-2019 1:29pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Overreact much? Seriously though, what’s with the perpetual hand holding of kids who need to be taught personal independence as early as practicable, and not be either molly-coddled or collectivised

Are you a parent? At what age have you sent your kids out cycling?

Lord Glentoran · 27-01-2019 2:15pm

Shai wrote: »

wanna answer the question about whether you want 10 year olds cycling by themselves through Galway's morning rush hour? or do you just wanna pretend you didn't see it?

I don’t answer questions to order, least of all one with assumptions about what I “wanna”. I imagine one of the reasons traffic is so fecked in Galway is induced demand from parents frightened that Mary or Johnny will be squashed unless they are in Mammy’s 4x4.

Then when Mary or Johnny become adults they only see the car as the key to the personal freedom denied them up to that point.

A vicious cycle of induced helplessness.

beauf · 27-01-2019 2:29pm

Hes complaining about kids cycling and kids not cycling. Also about parents driving and those cycling their kids to school.

He's covered all bases by complaining about everything and offering nothing

beauf · 27-01-2019 2:33pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are you a parent? At what age have you sent your kids out cycling?

You won't get any answers from someone who only complains about everything and offers no alternatives. Because they have none.

beauf · 27-01-2019 2:42pm

It's interesting that cyclists are not allowed on motorways but are allowed on roads with 80 limit. Often in cities people are doing 50+ in urban areas. Galway has had some high profile speeding reports.

I've never cycled in Galway but it comes across as pretty anti cycling place from everything that gets reported about it.

Sounds like the perfect place to let kids of all ages loose on the roads.

AndrewJRenko · 27-01-2019 2:54pm

beauf wrote: »

It's interesting that cyclists are not allowed on motorways but are allowed on roads with 80 limit.

And on 100 kmph roads too

Shai · 27-01-2019 3:19pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

I don’t answer questions to order, least of all one with assumptions about what I “wanna”. I imagine one of the reasons traffic is so fecked in Galway is induced demand from parents frightened that Mary or Johnny will be squashed unless they are in Mammy’s 4x4.

Then when Mary or Johnny become adults they only see the car as the key to the personal freedom denied them up to that point.

A vicious cycle of induced helplessness.

And how will kids learn to cycle in traffic if adults won't teach them by, for example, running a cycle bus? Don't bother answering, I'm not sure you yourself know what you're arguing for or against at this point. You just seem to want to be angry at something.

Lord Glentoran · 27-01-2019 3:39pm

beauf wrote: »

You won't get any answers from someone who only complains about everything and offers no alternatives. Because they have none.

Tough talk, tiger.

Lord Glentoran · 27-01-2019 3:46pm

Shai wrote: »

And how will kids learn to cycle in traffic if adults won't teach them by, for example, running a cycle bus? Don't bother answering, I'm not sure you yourself know what you're arguing for or against at this point. You just seem to want to be angry at something.

Simples.

Parents teach kids from an early age to ride a bike safely.
They then move from being supervised to riding on their own.
All this on the basis that the kids know and use the Rules of the Road and are confident in differing levels of traffic.
This involves a hands on and tailored level of supervision until the kid is responsible to travel on the roads themselves.
It involves parents taking responsibility, and children learning responsibility.

It couldn’t be any clearer than that.

beauf · 27-01-2019 3:52pm

Bit old...

https://connachttribune.ie/eight-out-of-ten-motorists-speeding-survey-shows/

"The rates of speeding in Galway were “100 times greater than the official detection rate on national primary and secondary roads” around the country as recorded by the Garda national operation, according to COSAIN."

I wonder has it changed since.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/galway-races-traffic-problems-year-round-4155045-Jul2018/

Shai · 27-01-2019 3:53pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Simples.

Parents teach kids from an early age to ride a bike safely.
They then move from being supervised to riding on their own.
All this on the basis that the kids know and use the Rules of the Road and are confident in differing levels of traffic.
This involves a hands on and tailored level of supervision until the kid is responsible to travel on the roads themselves.
It involves parents taking responsibility, and children learning responsibility.

It couldn’t be any clearer than that.

If you replace "parents" with "adults", have you not just described the cycle bus?

AndrewJRenko · 27-01-2019 3:59pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

This involves a hands on and tailored level of supervision until the kid is responsible to travel on the roads themselves.

And what age do you think kids are generally responsible to travel on the roads themselves, given hands-on and tailored supervision in the early years?

beauf · 27-01-2019 3:59pm

Considering in the majority of cases it's driver behaviour causing accidents, perhaps it's drivers that need training and enforcement not the cyclists. But let's blame cyclists for traffic and accidents instead of what's actually causing it. Keep everyone in cars. Makes perfect sense.

Lord Glentoran · 27-01-2019 4:00pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And what age do you think kids are generally responsible to travel on the roads themselves, given hands-on and tailored supervision in the early years?

Every child is different.

It’s down to parents to judge how mature and capable their children are.

AndrewJRenko · 27-01-2019 4:02pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Every child is different.

It’s down to parents to judge how mature and capable their children are.

Which is exactly what the parents in the cycle bus have done.

Fighting Tao · 27-01-2019 4:32pm

It’s a case of proving yourself wrong and still arguing that you are right. You seem confused. It might be all the extra fumes you are inhaling while in the car?

magicbastarder · 27-01-2019 4:42pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Simples.

Parents teach kids from an early age to ride a bike safely.
They then move from being supervised to riding on their own.
All this on the basis that the kids know and use the Rules of the Road and are confident in differing levels of traffic.
This involves a hands on and tailored level of supervision until the kid is responsible to travel on the roads themselves.
It involves parents taking responsibility, and children learning responsibility.

It couldn’t be any clearer than that.

'they shouldn't be doing what they are doing, they should in fact instead be doing what they are doing'.
gotcha.

beauf · 27-01-2019 5:17pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

And what age do you think kids are generally responsible to travel on the roads themselves, given hands-on and tailored supervision in the early years?

We have to assume any age. Parents could decide age 2 is fine and people here have no problem with that if the parents say it's ok.

I always thought even inexperienced adults would benefit from mentoring from experienced cyclists in modern traffic conditions.

Some primary schools have cycling courses and the parents have to give permission for that.

Some seen oblivious to all this.

27-01-2019 9:20pm

The Galway Cycle Bus does much more.

It's also getting drivers more used to seeing kids & adults out cycling and thereby increasing their awareness of other road users.

That, in itself, makes this project much more valuable to the average road user (drivers and cyclists).

Corca Baiscinn · 29-01-2019 9:41pm

Hurrache wrote: »

"Cycle buses are great but they shouldn't be on the road".

That's why they should be trains:rolleyes:

Cycle train

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