Football Leaks: UEFA Investigation into Manchester City

gstack166 · 01-11-2019 10:23pm

ERG89 wrote: »

Press in Germany, Italy, Spain, France and England have all printed about the allegations. The information was out there and the leaker wasn't extradited to Portugal & charged for having a laugh, he found dirt and stayed digging.

The press were reporting the Der Spiegel pieces.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/manchester-city-exposed-bending-the-rules-to-the-tune-of-millions-a-1236346-amp.html

And we know this about Der Spiegel:

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/2178802/exposed-german-weekly-der-spiegels-star-reporter-claas-relotius

Fitz* · 01-11-2019 10:33pm

Gstack, do you believe that the annual salary reports on Man City are accurate and that the players wages are not being misrepresented in any way? Apparently the 3rd highest in the league, even with a massively expensive squad and long list of players you would expect to be too earners in the league.

gstack166 · 01-11-2019 10:41pm

FitzShane wrote: »

Gstack, do you believe that the annual salary reports on Man City are accurate and that the players wages are not being misrepresented in any way? Apparently the 3rd highest in the league, even with a massively expensive squad and long list of players you would expect to be too earners in the league.

I actually do, and the Football Financial Advisors on Sky Sports who are on regularly agree too.

They are on highly lucrative incentive bonuses, it’s been that way since Soriano & Begeristein came to the club.

Little known fact because it doesn’t suit the narrative to print it but Aguero actually took a pay cut in his last contract extension but would be subsidised in bonus’s such as x amount of goals etc.

Manchester City do not need to overspend on wages these days, players are begging to join the club not the other away round like in the Sheiks early days. They have huge leverage with players, playing for the best manager in the world, consistently winning trophies, playing with the best squad in Europe.

They’re not a hard sell to any player.

Take this story about Fernandinho from 6 years ago that never did nor does get spoke about:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jun/06/fernandinho-signs-manchester-city-sport

Players are paying money to join them.

Bobeagleburger · 01-11-2019 10:48pm

Have all the allegations been dismissed or just one so far? They were 3 or 4 right?

gstack166 · 01-11-2019 10:49pm

6 wrote: »

Have all the allegations been dismissed or just one so far? They were 3 or 4 right?

About 824 I think.

UEFA is the last one, but they haven’t a leg to stand on now after the FA have dismissed Der Spiegels credibility.

Bobeagleburger · 01-11-2019 10:52pm

gstack166 wrote: »

About 824 I think.

UEFA is the last one, but they haven’t a leg to stand on now after the FA have dismissed Der Spiegels credibility.

Was there an allegation for overvalued sponsorship?

gstack166 · 01-11-2019 10:57pm

6 wrote: »

Was there an allegation for overvalued sponsorship?

That’s all tied into the UEFA investigation with FFP. They are all based on 7 year old stolen emails published in Der Spiegel and their only source of the leaks now facing a huge prison sentence for extortion it makes you wonder how UEFA can possibly substantiate any allegations.

Fitz* · 01-11-2019 10:57pm

While I agree with your point about City as a club being an easy sell to players and not just seen as a money pit, I don't really buy that players won't also ask for a massive contract when arriving at the club.

Performance based contracts are sound, I think they should be more prevailant in football but what exactly these bonuses are can be tricky and not really transparent. There's 2 scenarios I think that could be happening.

1) Aguero could have went from 250,000 a week base plus 30,000 goal bonus to a 200,000 base and 100,000 goal bonus and it will appear as lower on the contract. Also who pays this bonus? Is it direct from the club or is he being paid from another sister company?

2)Or maybe his image rights are being paid from a sister company and the 'shortfall' from his lower contract is being made up by this sister company and not directly out of the Man City club accounts. Aguero doesn't mind as he is being paid the same amount of money or maybe even more, and it appears as less money on Man City's accounts.

We saw recently that Juventus just magically received a 25 million euro bonus from Jeep their primary sponsor, in the middle of October for 'good performance'. The fact that the same family that owns Juventus is also the owner of Jeep makes this highly suspicious. It's basically just giving money to the club indirectly to fund the running of the club and in my opinion some of the massive salaries that they have taken on recently.

gstack166 · 01-11-2019 11:04pm

FitzShane wrote: »

While I agree with your point about City as a club being an easy sell to players and not just seen as a money pit, I don't really buy that players won't also ask for a massive contract when arriving at the club.

Performance based contracts are sound, I think they should be more prevailant in football but what exactly these bonuses are can be tricky and not really transparent. There's 2 scenarios I think that could be happening.

1) Aguero could have went from 250,000 a week base plus 30,000 goal bonus to a 200,000 base and 100,000 goal bonus and it will appear as lower on the contract. Also who pays this bonus? Is it direct from the club or is he being paid from another sister company?

2)Or maybe his image rights are being paid from a sister company and the 'shortfall' from his lower contract is being made up by this sister company and not directly out of the Man City club accounts. Aguero doesn't mind as he is being paid the same amount of money or maybe even more, and it appears as less money on Man City's accounts.

We saw recently that Juventus just magically received a 25 million euro bonus from Jeep their primary sponsor, in the middle of October for 'good performance'. The fact that family that owns Juventus is also own Jeep makes this highly suspicious. It's basically just giving money to the club indirectly to fund the running of the club and in my opinion some of the massive salaries that they have taken on recently.

I think it is a mixture of both 1 & 2 yes but I’d know little in that to be honest so can’t comment.

In regards players looking for big money, course they do, and they’ll pay it if they think he’s worth it but like Fred & Sanchez, they’ll walk away too if they feel they want more than they’re worth.

Soriano & Txixi are credited with turning Barcelona around financially. Everything I’ve read about them from people who’ve worked or dealt with them all say they’re the best in the business.

I just think it’s down to the fact they’ve done their jobs brilliantly in regards money with players.

Sam Lee for the Athletic wrote a piece the other week saying they plan their transfers 18months in advance and vet the player throughly down to knowing their favourite cereal before deciding to speak to the players agent.

IncognitoMan · 01-11-2019 11:59pm

gstack166 wrote: »

I actually do, and the Football Financial Advisors on Sky Sports who are on regularly agree too.

They are on highly lucrative incentive bonuses, it’s been that way since Soriano & Begeristein came to the club.

Little known fact because it doesn’t suit the narrative to print it but Aguero actually took a pay cut in his last contract extension but would be subsidised in bonus’s such as x amount of goals etc.

Manchester City do not need to overspend on wages these days, players are begging to join the club not the other away round like in the Sheiks early days. They have huge leverage with players, playing for the best manager in the world, consistently winning trophies, playing with the best squad in Europe.

They’re not a hard sell to any player.

Take this story about Fernandinho from 6 years ago that never did nor does get spoke about:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jun/06/fernandinho-signs-manchester-city-sport

Players are paying money to join them.

Steady yourself on there pal, Real Madrid and Barca still have to pay their best players massive wages but you think City are so big and desirable that they don't? Pull your head out of the sand will ya.

Augero never in a million years spent the best years of his career at City picking up a lesser wage than much lesser players in rival teams. Same for Silva, De Bruyne etc.. It's head in the clouds stuff to think otherwise tbh.

Top players cost top wages. City have more than a few. There's no shame in paying that to keep them, it's what every club has to do.

But hey I can't point out the obvious because I'm just a jealous hater :pac:

IncognitoMan · 02-11-2019 12:03am

gstack166 wrote: »

Ive never once voiced support of the owners actions in the Middle East. I’ve stated time and time again due to my own ignorance I know nothing of what they’re accused of by some.

They own the club you support. Would you not be the least bit curious?

gstack166 · 02-11-2019 12:04am

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Steady yourself on there pal, Real Madrid and Barca still have to pay their best players massive wages but you think City are so big and desirable that they don't? Pull your head out of the sand will ya.

Augero never in a million years spent the best years of his career at City picking up a lesser wage than much lesser players in rival teams. Same for Silva, De Bruyne etc.. It's head in the clouds stuff to think otherwise tbh.

Top players cost top wages. City have more than a few. There's no shame in paying that to keep them, it's what every club has to do.

But hey I can't point out the obvious because I'm just a jealous hater :pac:

You’ve completely twisted what I said. I’ve stated they’d pay big wages for those who they think deserve it. I answered in regards them being 3rd in the league in the amount of wages they pay, I was asked did I believe it and I said I did. It’s your head in the clouds Cos I’ve never said Aguero spent the best years of his career at City earning less money I said his LAST CONTRACT he took a pay decrease.

No need to tell me you’re a hater, all your past posts on the subject and the club confirm it.

IncognitoMan · 02-11-2019 12:12am

gstack166 wrote: »

You’ve completely twisted what I said. I’ve stated they’d pay big wages for those who they think deserve it. I answered in regards them being 3rd in the league in the amount of wages they pay, I was asked did I believe it and I said I did. It’s your head in the clouds Cos I’ve never said Aguero spent the best years earning less money I said his LAST CONTRACT he took a pay decrease.

No need to tell me you’re a hater, all your past posts on the subject and the club confirm it.

I haven't twisted anything. I'm talking about Aguero's entire time at City. How many new deals has that been probably 3 at least I'd guess?

And he's never been close to being the best paid player in the league despite often being regarded as the best striker. Come on man, it just doesn't make sense.

He'd have been off if he was only being offered whats reported. The best teams have to pay the best players the big bucks.

Why would City get away with what ever other big club doesn't?

I know you want to defend your club and believe that there's nothing dodgy going on but you have to be able to take a step back and look at it without the fan eyes.

gstack166 · 14-11-2019 6:12pm

https://twitter.com/samlee/status/1195024592622014464?s=21

Looks like we can finally close this thread. I know a lot of you will be upset.

Bobeagleburger · 14-11-2019 6:21pm

Nothing to see here

TitianGerm · 14-11-2019 6:22pm

gstack166 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/samlee/status/1195024592622014464?s=21

Looks like we can finally close this thread. I know a lot of you will be upset.

Why would anyone be upset? Looks like a large fine will be imposed so obviously they've been found guilty.

Don't think anyone expected them to be banned from the Champions League?

gstack166 · 14-11-2019 6:41pm

TitianGerm wrote: »

Why would anyone be upset? Looks like a large fine will be imposed so obviously they've been found guilty.

Don't think anyone expected them to be banned from the Champions League?

Didn’t they?

Read back through the thread, there was posters (Ozzy Jr specifically amongst others) were debating if they’d be happy with Liverpool being rewarded the title after City were stripped, posters saying it’ll make the players and pep leave.

Plus, maybe they have been found guilty, we’ll wait and see next month, my money is on City agreeing to a fine so UEFA can save some little face & them restructuring FFP to keep City out of taking them to court because it’s plainly obvious now if this article is true that UEFA would of been took to the cleaners if City wanted to, otherwise they would of been banned.

Some of us knew all along though that in its current guise FFP was immoral & against regulations preventing owners investing in their business.

ozzy jr · 14-11-2019 8:35pm

gstack166 wrote: »

Didn’t they?

Read back through the thread, there was posters (Ozzy Jr specifically amongst others) were debating if they’d be happy with Liverpool being rewarded the title after City were stripped, posters saying it’ll make the players and pep leave.

That's twice now you've mentioned me. Not once did I say what you claim I did above. I have 19 posts in the thread, i just went thought them all again, just to make sure. They're nearly all referring to the human rights abuses of the owners. It's easy to check them (my posts) if you want.

Feel free to point out where I did post what you claim, just in case I did miss it.

I await your findings

eagle eye · 14-11-2019 8:40pm

ozzy jr wrote:

That's twice now you've mentioned me. Not once did I say what you claim I did above. I have 19 posts in the thread, i just went thought them all again, just to make sure. They're nearly all referring to the human rights abuses of the owners. It's easy to check them if you want.

Soccer fans don't care about stuff outside their football team.
What they've done outside football doesn't have anything to do with their dealings as football club owners.

~Rebel~ · 14-11-2019 8:46pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Soccer fans don't care about stuff outside their football team.
What they've done outside football doesn't have anything to do with their dealings as football club owners.

Surely that's very much a person by person thing? Some care about that stuff, some don't.

Though it's definitely true to say that in most things, people (myself included for the most part) are happy enough to remain ignorant of the processes behind our convenience.

But I think most people have a line, somewhere.

ozzy jr · 14-11-2019 8:51pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Soccer fans don't care about stuff outside their football team.
What they've done outside football doesn't have anything to do with their dealings as football club owners.

You said the exact same thing in post 759, my reply in post 760 remains the same.

Anyway, I await gstack166 reply or apology for misrepresenting me

eagle eye · 15-11-2019 12:15am

ozzy jr wrote:

You said the exact same thing in post 759, my reply in post 760 remains the same.

Yeah, I asked a question and you said I'm talking ****e. Unreal.

Coillte_Bhoy · 15-11-2019 2:39am

eagle eye wrote: »

Soccer fans don't care about stuff outside their football team.
What they've done outside football doesn't have anything to do with their dealings as football club owners.

Speak for yourself, don't tar us all with the same brush, i could be here all night giving examples to prove you wrong but i feel my time would be wasted with the likes of you

ozzy jr · 15-11-2019 10:02am

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah, I asked a question and you said I'm talking ****e. Unreal.

Just looking back at what you wrote, and you were talking s****

eagle eye wrote: »

If we start going down the path of caring about the lives of owners of football clubs where do we stop? Do we go after anybody with a relationship with somebody controversial? Do we go after tax cheats?
Just wondering where you draw the line?

eagle eye · 15-11-2019 10:47am

ozzy jr wrote:

Just looking back at what you wrote, and you were talking s****

Yeah, four question marks. Did you miss them?

eagle eye · 15-11-2019 10:48am

Coillte_Bhoy wrote:

Speak for yourself, don't tar us all with the same brush, i could be here all night giving examples to prove you wrong but i feel my time would be wasted with the likes of you

Prove me wrong?

LuckyLloyd · 15-11-2019 11:27am

Pretty comfortable drawing the line at evil inherited wealth that commits multiple human rights abuses. I don’t think we have to worry about tax cheats in the context of this conversation.

LuckyLloyd · 15-11-2019 3:12pm

Fundamentally - as I have argued here numerous times through the years - FFP was always doomed to fail. It has not restored competitive balance nor has it pulled up the drawbridge around the old football powers as a last gasp attempt to protect them from oil money in the Middle East. Nor should it. If someone is willing to buy a football club and invest a wall of their own money in it to tilt the competitive balance in their direction so be it.

The licensing system UEFA introduced allied to FFP has been successful to ensure less debt and dodgy administrative practice up and down the European football food chain, and such initiatives can protect the Portsmouth / Leeds Utd scenarios: where the owner is a chancer who doesn’t actually have the money he is pumping in.

But City and PSG are something else, as would Utd were they bought by Saudi princes. This is real money, real intent with an army of legal acumen and resource to fight UEFA tooth and nail. As pointed out up thread, the decision not to ban City from the champions league does not absolve them from falling afoul of FFP - it just highlights the limits of sanction FFP can impose. UEFA do not have the confidence to try and apply a “nuclear” option. I am okay with this.

City’s victories or otherwise are of course a completely separate matter to the moral realities of their owners. City fans have decided to not care where the money that bankrolls them comes from. Would it bother me if Liverpool fell into such hands? **** yes. UEFA have always understood that this has the capacity to taint their competitions. Should Guardiola ever achieve the holy grail of the European Cup there will be an International focus placed on City’s owners, and that’s bad for business.

But here we are, nonetheless. This money was invited in to FIFA back rooms and it was given a place on Barcelona’s jersies and there was no stopping it from there. It is dirty morally bankrupt money and football fans probably *should* care about that - no legal victory changes that reality.

eigrod · 15-11-2019 4:07pm

Cas have said they can’t get involved at this stage.

If/when UEFA sanction City, City can then appeal to Cas

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50435304

Nunu · 15-11-2019 5:09pm

Milan qualified for the Europa League this season but got a 1 season ban over FFP.

Im not sure of the ins and outs of that decision but I’m guessing they agreed to the ban in lieu of a large fine. Easier to come to that decision when it’s Europa league I suppose? Are they the only club to get a European ban over FFP?

Football Leaks: UEFA Investigation into Manchester City

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