Property Market 2020

Dolbhad · 03-01-2020 3:52pm

SozBbz wrote: »

I think it just costs so much to get work done these days - the standards are so high, and builders charge a bomb. Properties with good fundamental characteristics, that have been maintained in an ongoing way by their previous owners etc will still sell quite easily. Delapidated wrecks however will need to be very competitively priced and will probably only appeal to those trading up who have equity, unless the govt were to offer more renovation incentives.

I think that’s very accurate. Turn key second houses or those that have been maintained will meet or exceed asking and will have people bidding on them. Those type of houses usually have sellers selling to buy another house. But with restrictions of 20% or equity in property and the lack of a suitable home to buy, they aren’t putting them up for sale. I think Brexit scared people a bit to “see how things go”..

My sister is in a smallish three bed end of terrace house. It’s already been extended as was a two bed but has a massive garden. Bought it when they first married but with three kids it’s now to small for them. They would love to sell and move. Bought it at height of boom so although it’s not in negative equity, they isn’t the equity in the house to cover the 20% deposit. But I say there are a lot of people in that position stuck in the homes they bought it the boom that could be more Suitable for others.

What I’ve seen in Cork last few months was those type of houses weren’t coming on the market. It was a lot of probate and ex rentals in need of work.

hmmm · 03-01-2020 5:05pm

SozBbz wrote: »

I think it just costs so much to get work done these days - the standards are so high, and builders charge a bomb. Properties with good fundamental characteristics, that have been maintained in an ongoing way by their previous owners etc will still sell quite easily. Delapidated wrecks however will need to be very competitively priced and will probably only appeal to those trading up who have equity, unless the govt were to offer more renovation incentives.

Yep - hard to get builders. Hard to get builders you trust. Hard to get tradespeople.

Plus, younger people in general are less DIY-competent these days, and are less confident about taking on a job themselves. They also have less time available in general. That's not a criticism, just an observation.

Added to all that, mortgage rates are very low and quite affordable. Why take on the headache of a fixer upper, when you can just add 20 grand to your budget and go for a better maintained property?

awec · 03-01-2020 8:22pm

hmmm wrote: »

Yep - hard to get builders. Hard to get builders you trust. Hard to get tradespeople.

Plus, younger people in general are less DIY-competent these days, and are less confident about taking on a job themselves. They also have less time available in general. That's not a criticism, just an observation.

Added to all that, mortgage rates are very low and quite affordable. Why take on the headache of a fixer upper, when you can just add 20 grand to your budget and go for a better maintained property?

I think this is it.

The stress of having to fix up a house means it would need to be considered a real bargain for someone to take it on. I think it's really driven by two things:

1. Builders are so busy these days that you'll be paying good money for any work, if you can even get one.
2. The state of the current rental market means nobody is willing to risk buying a house that they can't really live in while it's being renovated. It's not like finding alternative, temporary housing is easy.

Mic 1972 · 03-01-2020 9:21pm

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/6-roseneath-villas-military-road-st-lukes-cork-city-cork/4326164

This place has been for sale for longest time, recently dropped 50k in listed price from 310k down to 260k, it has now peaked my interest a little.

Wondering if any Cork folk have experience of this house or the area?

The picture of the exterior has been photoshopped to death, fake green grass and fake brick work to cover up for something bad, and that's just the outside.
Pictures like that don't sell a house at all. I wouldn't even bother viewing a property whose owner/selling agency went to such extent in faking.

Mic 1972 · 03-01-2020 9:40pm

The stats are out, if this is the beginning of a declining trend we are still at the top of the curve

https://bl.ocks.org/pinsterdev/raw/b52f2a466477d05576bc/?s=urban

riclad · 03-01-2020 11:41pm

If house,s are not selling in general ,they are over priced ,
or people may be waiting a year to see what happens ,how badly will brexit effect the irish economy.
will it cause a steep decline in house,s prices.
it costs nothing to view a house .
do,nt just go by photo,s .
we have a shortage of builder,s in ireland.
many builders left after 2008.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 03-01-2020 11:51pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The picture of the exterior has been photoshopped to death, fake green grass and fake brick work to cover up for something bad, and that's just the outside.
Pictures like that don't sell a house at all. I wouldn't even bother viewing a property whose owner/selling agency went to such extent in faking.

Cheers yeah, madness what they did with the grass alright!

GetWithIt · 04-01-2020 12:19am

I bought my home in 2013. If I’d bought it purely as an investment I’d sell in 2020. Not because of Brexit, supply concerns or even global warming. I’d sell because anyone who bought in 2012, 2013 and 2014 received an exemption for Capital Gains if the property was held for 7 years.

In a flat, or even a slowly rising market, I’d be losing money as the extra ordinary tax free gains start attracting Capital Gains.

Empty_Space · 04-01-2020 2:54am

2lazytogetup wrote: »

Prices of houses have been dropping alot more without people realising or the statistics properly showing.

This is due to a higher proportion of new houses on the market.

Take Naas for example, where there has been alot of new housing developments.

A 4 bed second house costs 300k on average. So when there were no houses being built, the average was 300k. Now for every brand new house that costs 350k, it drives up the average price of a 4 bed house. Even though the second hand house value hasnt gone up. Its just there is a bigger proportion of new houses. They are more expensive as better insulated and will have alot less maintenance.

So people in ireland were rejoicing that property prices were going up and their house was going up in value. their house wasnt. it was staying at 300k or even dropping. Just a higher proportion of new houses driving up the price.

Interesting take that I haven't heard before. Thanks.

Is there any data to back this up though?,

The_Conductor · 04-01-2020 10:43am

2lazytogetup wrote: »

Prices of houses have been dropping alot more without people realising or the statistics properly showing.

This is due to a higher proportion of new houses on the market.

As a proportion of sales- new homes have a smaller slice of the pie since anytime in the last decade. They comprise less than 20% of all sales- and as a percentage this proportion is falling. Your hypothesis does not hold.

ittakestwo · 04-01-2020 8:03pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

As a proportion of sales- new homes have a smaller slice of the pie since anytime in the last decade. They comprise less than 20% of all sales- and as a percentage this proportion is falling. Your hypothesis does not hold.

looking at the figures posted already 2018 and 2019 had the highest percentage of new sales since 2010. Still only about 20% but around 2012 to 2015 the figure was 15%

Dolbhad · 04-01-2020 8:10pm

ittakestwo wrote: »

looking at the figures posted already 2018 and 2019 had the highest percentage of new sales in the last 10 years. still only about 20% but around 2014/15 the figure was less than 15%

And new builds do seem to still be going up in price on each phase (unlike second hand houses). I’m waiting for a phase 2 in an estate in Cork to be released which I expect in next 2 months. It will be interesting to see what the price increase will be. I do know what the figure was for phase 1 in the house type I’m looking at. That builder had gone up 15k between phases in other estates they did in last two years. And still have one or two of heir most expensive houses in phase 1 still available.

JamesMason · 06-01-2020 10:21am

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/commuter-belt-bucks-trend-as-home-sales-tumble-across-state-38836298.html
Also
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/sales-of-houses-and-apartments-fall-4-overall-1.4130984
The slowdown looks official now

Marius34 · 06-01-2020 10:59am

JamesMason wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/commuter-belt-bucks-trend-as-home-sales-tumble-across-state-38836298.html
Also
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/sales-of-houses-and-apartments-fall-4-overall-1.4130984
The slowdown looks official now

The property price slowdown looks official. But the articles is abit of a joke.. "Sales of houses and apartments fall 4% overall", "almost two-thirds of counties are expected to have experienced a downturn in property sales when figures are finalised". Check again by the end of January, and you will realise that the actual numbers will be very different.. it's just around half of December sales has been added on PPR.

Graham · 06-01-2020 3:12pm

"Home sales 'tumble' 3.9% before sales for the remaining 3.85% of the year are recorded" isn't nearly hysterical enough as a headline.

Zenify · 06-01-2020 3:30pm

Graham wrote: »

"Home sales 'tumble' 3.9% before sales for the remaining 3.85% of the year are recorded" isn't nearly hysterical enough as a headline.

Would the end of December usually equate to that %of home sales for the year? I didn't see anything happening at the end of December.

SozBbz · 06-01-2020 3:41pm

Zenify wrote: »

Would the end of December usually equate to that %of home sales for the year? I didn't see anything happening at the end of December.

Surely things still complete in December, sales that began in Sept, Oct and November.

Agree, nothing much new happens in December, but whats recorded is completions, not properties going sale agreed. As such, I'd nearly expect Jan and Feb to the the quietest months for completion.

Marius34 · 06-01-2020 8:27pm

Zenify wrote: »

Would the end of December usually equate to that %of home sales for the year? I didn't see anything happening at the end of December.

Historically December has the highest number of completed sales. Especially new build, as for various reasons there is interest to complete sale before the end of the year. For some properties it takes time to be added to the Property register database, so we can't really know the numbers for December until at least till the end of January. But in general, based on previous 11 months, sales for 2019 should be higher than 2018.

tobsey · 07-01-2020 11:14am

GetWithIt wrote: »

I bought my home in 2013. If I’d bought it purely as an investment I’d sell in 2020. Not because of Brexit, supply concerns or even global warming. I’d sell because anyone who bought in 2012, 2013 and 2014 received an exemption for Capital Gains if the property was held for 7 years.

In a flat, or even a slowly rising market, I’d be losing money as the extra ordinary tax free gains start attracting Capital Gains.

I'm sure you're right that a lot of investment properties are being sold for that reason, but how would they be losing money from now? CGT I presume is only payable on the increase from on the value going forward 7 years after purchase. So if the property was 200k, now worth 300k, then CGT is payable on any increase above 300k I'd have thought? I know if the value is rising slowly then there isn't much of a return, but with rental yields so high they wouldn't need much appreciation in value. The 300k property would have a pre-tax yield of 7-8% or so. You wouldn't get that yield anywhere else. Even if it was a buy-to-let mortgage that would be for a max of 160k, paying 5% on that wouldn't hit the yield too bad.

If they sell, what would they reinvest in to get gains close to that? You could try the markets, but they can go down too.

mariaalice · 07-01-2020 11:21am

Graham wrote: »

"Home sales 'tumble' 3.9% before sales for the remaining 3.85% of the year are recorded" isn't nearly hysterical enough as a headline.

It very hard to tell what is happening, if prices along the Luas green line or similar very desirable areas were majorly droping that would be saying something about the property market, it's not talking about it sold for 580k last year and the same house is 570k this year.

There are dozens of property markets, not just one.

AlmightyCushion · 07-01-2020 11:36am

tobsey wrote: »

I'm sure you're right that a lot of investment properties are being sold for that reason, but how would they be losing money from now? CGT I presume is only payable on the increase from on the value going forward 7 years after purchase. So if the property was 200k, now worth 300k, then CGT is payable on any increase above 300k I'd have thought? I know if the value is rising slowly then there isn't much of a return, but with rental yields so high they wouldn't need much appreciation in value. The 300k property would have a pre-tax yield of 7-8% or so. You wouldn't get that yield anywhere else. Even if it was a buy-to-let mortgage that would be for a max of 160k, paying 5% on that wouldn't hit the yield too bad.

If they sell, what would they reinvest in to get gains close to that? You could try the markets, but they can go down too.

I could be wrong but I believe the CGT exemption is a use it or lose it type of thing. If they sell this year they get the 100k and pay no CGT, if they sell next year and the value goes up 10k, then they pay CGT on the whole 110k increase in value. In that case, they would lose money by not selling now. It would be better for them to sell the place and buy a similar property for the same money instead of keeping it as that way they lock in the CGT exemption.

07-01-2020 11:37am

I'm hoping to buy this year and it'll have to be a second-hand job.
More than likely I won't be able to buy something turn-key. I'm fine with doing some work but I only want to do work that is putting stuff in, not taking stuff out. I can paint it myself. I have mates who can lift stuff, I can get tiling done very cheap, same with plumbing.
I imagine the worry for people buying a fixer-upper would be along the lines of mine: How much? As soon as you start making structural or large changes it opens a can of worms. Moving a radiator can be a small job but what if it isn't? Something goes wrong and you have to get someone else in and hand over 100 quid for them to tell you who you need.
While there is an element of time/ability I think the potential cost and tight margins when getting a mortgage may be the bigger issue with people wanting somewhere they can more or less move straight into.

Graham · 07-01-2020 11:41am

mariaalice wrote: »

It very hard to tell what is happening, if prices along the Luas green line or similar very desirable areas were majorly droping that would be saying something about the property market, it's not talking about it sold for 580k last year and the same house is 570k this year.

There are dozens of property markets, not just one.

The percentages refer to volume of sales rather than value.

cruizer101 · 07-01-2020 12:35pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I could be wrong but I believe the CGT exemption is a use it or lose it type of thing. If they sell this year they get the 100k and pay no CGT, if they sell next year and the value goes up 10k, then they pay CGT on the whole 110k increase in value. In that case, they would lose money by not selling now. It would be better for them to sell the place and buy a similar property for the same money instead of keeping it as that way they lock in the CGT exemption.

Relief over 7 years is on a proportion basis, here is example, taken from here

Example: Property acquired on 1 March 2012 for €500,000 and sold on 2 March
2022 for €800,000 – i.e. property owned for a full 10 years.
Gain of €300,000 is partially relieved:
Gain €300,000
Less Relief 300,000 x 7/10 €210,000
Chargeable Gain € 90,000

So while there may be some incentive to dispose of the property its not a use it or lose it case where you have to sell by specific date or lose out.

07-01-2020 1:00pm

just taking a quick browse on the price changes on myhome in dublin.

The first page, listing price changes from 2nd on Jan on-wards has 19 properties listed. 14 of these have dropped their price and 5 increased. Biggest drops obviously in the 400k + market. So looks like the pre christmas trend is continuing. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. possibly stabilise out over this year, but cant see the overall trend going the other way anytime soon

Woshy · 07-01-2020 5:49pm

Is there a way on myhome or daft to see a history of a property - e.g .when it was first entered. Daftdrop isn't online anymore.

I'm looking at a property that was last refreshed in Oct 2019 but I'm wondering if it's been on the market longer than this.

ELM327 · 07-01-2020 5:51pm

Woshy wrote: »

Is there a way on myhome or daft to see a history of a property - e.g .when it was first entered. Daftdrop isn't online anymore.

I'm looking at a property that was last refreshed in Oct 2019 but I'm wondering if it's been on the market longer than this.

They used to display this but I think it was nerfed

RandomUsername · 07-01-2020 6:22pm

Woshy wrote:

I'm looking at a property that was last refreshed in Oct 2019 but I'm wondering if it's been on the market longer than this. Is there a way on myhome or daft to see a history of a property - e.g .when it was first entered. Daftdrop isn't online anymore.

You used to be able to search daft by date entered oldest first and it gave the date of first entry. I don't know if it still works but give it a try, just refine down to the local area.

beanyb · 07-01-2020 6:29pm

RandomUsername wrote: »

You used to be able to search daft by date entered oldest first and it gave the date of first entry. I don't know if it still works but give it a try, just refine down to the local area.

This does still work. It's after you do the search, you sort by date entered at the top of the results and it'll sort from new to old showing the date entered on each listing. A v handy trick!

Sheeps · 07-01-2020 11:28pm

Just as prices start to subside, boom, whack on another 4% on to new builds commencing from this year. Genuinly hope climate change wipes us out.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/tough-new-energy-ratings-expected-to-increase-construction-cost-of-residential-properties-by-up-to-4pc-38841043.html

awec · 07-01-2020 11:32pm

NZE is a good thing tbh. Doesn't really make sense why anyone wouldn't want it.

Sheeps · 07-01-2020 11:36pm

awec wrote: »

NZE is a good thing tbh. Doesn't really make sense why anyone wouldn't want it.

NZE doesn't save you money if you can't afford the house in the first place. Infact it reduces my options for purchasing to lower energy efficient housing because I'll need another 7 months to save the 15k I need to bridge the gap to what the cost increase will be. After 7 months I'll be back to where I am now in terms of what I can afford.

L1011 · 08-01-2020 12:13am

I'm beginning to think that the increased build quality requirements need to be allayed in another way cost-wise due to just how much more expensive a new house is to build - but I have no idea what would work best.

Removing/reducing VAT would require significant watching of the market to make sure it doesn't just become extra margin; ditto reducing development levies / infrastructure requirements. And doing that would create higher demands on the exchequer and local taxation while new builds are still not paying any property tax.

GetWithIt · 08-01-2020 12:38am

cruizer101 wrote: »

Relief over 7 years is on a proportion basis, here is example, taken from here

Example: Property acquired on 1 March 2012 for €500,000 and sold on 2 March
2022 for €800,000 – i.e. property owned for a full 10 years.
Gain of €300,000 is partially relieved:
Gain €300,000
Less Relief 300,000 x 7/10 €210,000
Chargeable Gain € 90,000

So while there may be some incentive to dispose of the property its not a use it or lose it case where you have to sell by specific date or lose out.

This is my understanding.

The incentive in a flat market is that after 7 years I may have a gain of 300k which attracts no capital gains. After 10 years I may still have a gain of 300k but now have a liability on 3/10s of that gain. With each passing year my liability increases.

GetWithIt · 08-01-2020 12:45am

tobsey wrote: »

I'm sure you're right that a lot of investment properties are being sold for that reason, but how would they be losing money from now? CGT I presume is only payable on the increase from on the value going forward 7 years after purchase. So if the property was 200k, now worth 300k, then CGT is payable on any increase above 300k I'd have thought? I know if the value is rising slowly then there isn't much of a return, but with rental yields so high they wouldn't need much appreciation in value. The 300k property would have a pre-tax yield of 7-8% or so. You wouldn't get that yield anywhere else. Even if it was a buy-to-let mortgage that would be for a max of 160k, paying 5% on that wouldn't hit the yield too bad.

If they sell, what would they reinvest in to get gains close to that? You could try the markets, but they can go down too.

Your presumption on the way CGT would be calculated is incorrect.

It doesn’t matter to as it’s my home. For someone with 1 or 2 properties, the hassle of selling and reinvesting may not be worth it. But if I was some form of REIT that bought a heap of apartment blocks then it would certainly be on the agenda at the AGM.

Assetbacked · 08-01-2020 1:08am

JamesMason wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/commuter-belt-bucks-trend-as-home-sales-tumble-across-state-38836298.html
Also
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/sales-of-houses-and-apartments-fall-4-overall-1.4130984
The slowdown looks official now

It's interesting timing too. Tens of thousands of homes absolutely must be built to sustain demand. Politically, this is the single biggest issue and will not go anywhere until meaningful action is taken.

As such, with significant more dwellings brought to the market over the next five to ten years, price growth must continue to slowdown or reverse it would seem for this time period.

08-01-2020 9:51am

will be interesting come election time what proposals they make as housing and health are going to be the 2 big issues. Is there a vacant property tax in?? i still see so many derelict properties in premium locations where i live

The_Conductor · 08-01-2020 10:38am

19233974 wrote: »

will be interesting come election time what proposals they make as housing and health are going to be the 2 big issues. Is there a vacant property tax in?? i still see so many derelict properties in premium locations where i live

What about all those properties which belong to people availing of the 'Fair Deal' scheme that are vacant- there are several tens of thousands of them...…...

08-01-2020 10:49am

The_Conductor wrote: »

What about all those properties which belong to people availing of the 'Fair Deal' scheme that are vacant- there are several tens of thousands of them...…...

that absolutely needs to be sorted, although id wonder how many are actually vacant and not being lived in rent free by family members.

Cuddlesworth · 08-01-2020 11:32am

19233974 wrote: »

that absolutely needs to be sorted, although id wonder how many are actually vacant and not being lived in rent free by family members.

There is no official documentation for it but from my experience, the houses are usually left empty.

08-01-2020 12:36pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

There is no official documentation for it but from my experience, the houses are usually left empty.

I managed to live rent free for 2 years in my girlfriends granny's house, family were happy to have us in there maintaining the place.

Absolute madness that these places are empty if so, government should allow them to be rented out for a set amount which could be a way of providing low cost rental accommodation. Win win for all

Browney7 · 08-01-2020 12:47pm

19233974 wrote: »

I managed to live rent free for 2 years in my girlfriends granny's house, family were happy to have us in there maintaining the place.

Absolute madness that these places are empty if so, government should allow them to be rented out for a set amount which could be a way of providing low cost rental accommodation. Win win for all

Except the property owner (potential landlord) is in residential care and probably not best placed to manage a tenancy or be au fait with the vagaries and technicalities of the tenancy act.

Graham · 08-01-2020 12:51pm

I think the biggest disincentive is likely the 'assessable income' part of the Fair Deal scheme.

Where is the incentive to rent out a property if the bulk of the rent is going to be swallowed?

Assetbacked · 08-01-2020 2:59pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/another-year-of-dysfunction-ahead-for-ireland-s-property-market-1.4133293

Some information in this article which stuck out for me;

"Realis is reported to be planning a 25-year agreement with Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, which will pay up to €3,000 a month to rent these properties to accommodate people on its social housing list.

This would set a high benchmark for people trying to rent under their own steam in the area, who then struggle to save the deposit required by the Central Bank to buy a house, which would be cheaper for them financially than paying sky-high rents."

This is astonishing - there is an extremely powerful lobby which has clearly come to some arrangement with the department in order to secure phenomenal returns on their investment at the expense of the taxpayer. €36k rent per annum is sickening for taxpayers to be paying. This is more than the median salary in Ireland! Talk about a disincentive to work.

The upcoming general election here is another possible fly in the ointment, with the potential for some politician or other to utter a throwaway comment on the housing crisis that could spook the market. It’s hard to imagine builders pressing the button on new builds until they know the shape of the next government and their likely policies on property.

"Throwaway comment" i.e. making a comment to speak out on behalf of the citizens rather than the institutional investors? Or talking about the market failure by not delivering to meet the needs of society? This is from the IT Business Editor so it is quite clear that his bread is buttered by certain vested interests.

opus · 08-01-2020 3:23pm

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Cheers yeah, madness what they did with the grass alright!

Weird pics for sure! Don't know anything about the house but certainly a good area, short walk to St Luke's cross. Bit unsure I'd call CUH a local amenity like it does in the blurb as it's ~5k away on the other side of the city

Sleepy · 08-01-2020 3:39pm

awec wrote: »

NZE is a good thing tbh. Doesn't really make sense why anyone wouldn't want it.

I'd have been of the same opinion but had an interesting conversation with a co-worker today that made me wonder about it. His 15 year old heat exchanger packed in on him on Christmas Eve. He didn't have the 12-15k he was quoted to replace it with a like-for-like heat exchanger and ended up having to get an oil-fired boiler based heating system and oil tank installed for about 8k.

When our own gas boiler went last year, we had a new one installed and all controls etc. upgraded for around 3k. Had we been looking at a similar level of bill as my colleague, we'd have been screwed.

It makes me wonder how maintainable some of the new standards will be for homeowners if the costs of replacing these highly efficient heating systems are so high...

Bigmac1euro · 08-01-2020 4:08pm

Sleepy wrote: »

12-15k

*Shudders

Facking hell

Sleepy · 08-01-2020 4:11pm

Yeah, not a bill you want to be facing unexpectedly and with little time to shop around to get sorted!

Unless the tech gets much, much cheaper, I can see a lot of these new A2/A3 homes ending up being retrograded to use oil / gas / solid fuel burners when the original units begin to reach end-of-life.

SozBbz · 08-01-2020 4:15pm

Hugh Wallace (architect and he's one of the House of the Year judges too) was on the radio recently saying that A rated houses are totally over the top and that Ireland is almost out on its own in enforcing such standards on all new builds.

He said a B rating would be much more achievable, make homes significantly more affordable and still end up with similar results. He also remarked that most A rated home owners just have their windows open non stop and the whole thing is a nonsense basically.

Ush1 · 08-01-2020 4:32pm

SozBbz wrote: »

Hugh Wallace (architect and he's one of the House of the Year judges too) was on the radio recently saying that A rated houses are totally over the top and that Ireland is almost out on its own in enforcing such standards on all new builds.

He said a B rating would be much more achievable, make homes significantly more affordable and still end up with similar results. He also remarked that most A rated home owners just have their windows open non stop and the whole thing is a nonsense basically.

Huh? Why would they do that?

Property Market 2020

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