Anti-Irish sentiment in England. Civil War? etc.

greenpilot · 30-08-2019 3:14pm #1

Hi,

Interesting article detailing the change of heart in the UK towards Irish, some living there for over 30 years and are now thinking of moving back.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/anti-irish-sentiment-in-britain-i-feel-like-i-am-back-in-the-1980s-1.3992131

I live in Roscommon and the amount of English living in and around the Ballaghaderreen area is incredible. I know quite a lot of them as I work in local retail and to say that they are keeping their heads down is an understatement. There is not a word said to them regarding Brexit or the issues the UK are causing.
Contrast this with the reception that the Irish in England are getting.

The UK is extremely Polarised at the moment and, to my surprise, a lot of folks from the UK who are living here are expecting a Civil War within the next year.

I have heard these comments from 4 different couples in the last month.

Interesting Times..

j8wk2feszrnpao · 30-08-2019 4:42pm

Not surprised by the Anti-Irish/Foreign sentiment. Look at the blame game directed at the EU/Ireland, and that filters down to those who believe in the Brexit unicorns. All their ills are the fault of Johnny Foreigner, not their own domestic policies. Just check out that idiot Ian Holloway blaming VAR on the EU; that’s the level your dealing with.

Charles Babbage · 30-08-2019 6:44pm

I hope this guy stays in Britain, he should feel right at home.

alchemist33 · 30-08-2019 6:47pm

Some of them do want us to clean up their mess (they agreed a backstop, couldn't push it through, then want is to pretend they never agreed it), but from looking at some UK forums, most of them see us as blameless in the current situation.

James Brown · 30-08-2019 7:55pm

Johnson will be hitting out at everyone and anyone to both get his way and then explain as it falls apart around his ears. He's an ignorant man. On Varadkar, 'Why isn't he called Murphy like the rest of them?'.

briany · 30-08-2019 8:07pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Johnson will be hitting out at everyone and anyone to both get his way and then explain as it falls apart around his ears. He's an ignorant man. On Varadkar, 'Why isn't he called Murphy like the rest of them?'.

We cannot assume Boris Johnson is an ignorant man, though it's very easy to see how anyone would come to that conclusion.

I'd say Sun Tzu would have agreed with the principal that there's no real disadvantage in your opponents believing you to be stupid/ignorant as this lowers their guard. Look at how wonderfully it worked for Donald Trump.

James Brown · 31-08-2019 7:41pm

briany wrote: »

We cannot assume Boris Johnson is an ignorant man, though it's very easy to see how anyone would come to that conclusion.

I'd say Sun Tzu would have agreed with the principal that there's no real disadvantage in your opponents believing you to be stupid/ignorant as this lowers their guard. Look at how wonderfully it worked for Donald Trump.

I said ignorant not stupid. Our own Bertie use to play the fool too. The stutter, the acting the happy go lucky chap from down the road. Two nasty pieces of work.

ilkhanid · 01-09-2019 1:17pm

I think talk about Civil war is far-fetched, but I wouldn't totally rule violent incidents. One person has already died. Words can have serous consequences-as people always point out in Trump's case-and when the more demented of the Brexiteers are coming out with words like Collaborators and Traitors one couldn't rule out some of the hotheads taking those terms literally. If things go pear-shaped after a No-deal exit, some of them might start looking around for somebody to blame, and not just the Irish.

Harry Palmr · 01-09-2019 1:31pm

Civil war? get a grip! They'll be too busy fighting for food to have an ideological based conflict.

MadYaker · 01-09-2019 2:28pm

If there’s genuine food and medicine shortages and a deep prolonged recession there maybe civil unrest comparable to 2011 but I think talk of civil war is a bit much and to be honest, such talk probably does more harm than good. The brexiteers are an angry bunch at the best of times and when brexit doesn’t bring the unicorns they’ve been promised they’ll get even angrier. Best not to give people ideas with talk of civil war and the like.

Larbre34 · 01-09-2019 4:43pm

There won't be a civil war in the UK, there'll be some grumbling and navel gazing and Scotland will depart and eventually the 6 counties as well and the little Englanders foolish enough to have had their futures decided by the Daily Express, Aaron Banks and Mark Francois will carry on shrieking and finger pointing and qouting Enoch Powell as the rest of the World pulls down the fader on their noise and carry on with our lives.

NIMAN · 01-09-2019 4:46pm

Civil war?

What is it, the 1800s?

Ace Attorney · 01-09-2019 4:53pm

Wouldnt say a civil war, but can imagine lots of protesting and possibly some clashes with groups of opposite views until brexit actually happens

briany · 01-09-2019 5:03pm

There'll be nothing close to civil war in the way it's traditionally defined, i.e. two formal armies, both of the country, who are vying for control of the country. Can't rule out skirmishes with the police or very heated arguments over Sunday lunch, though.

briany · 01-09-2019 5:06pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

There won't be a civil war in the UK, there'll be some grumbling and navel gazing and Scotland will depart and eventually the 6 counties as well and the little Englanders foolish enough to have had their futures decided by the Daily Express, Aaron Banks and Mark Francois will carry on shrieking and finger pointing and qouting Enoch Powell as the rest of the World pulls down the fader on their noise and carry on with our lives.

Brexit isn't the only goal of someone like Mark Francois. I mean it's certainly a very pertinent goal right now, but beyond that comes the goal of exporting the revolution, so to speak. If a no-deal Brexit occurs, and the relationship between the UK and the EU ices over, the tactic becomes widening the fault lines of the EU. And if you ignore people like Mark Francois, or people like Steve Bannon, you're giving them free rein to work with impunity. A fatal strategy.

Larbre34 · 01-09-2019 8:40pm

briany wrote: »

Brexit isn't the only goal of someone like Mark Francois. I mean it's certainly a very pertinent goal right now, but beyond that comes the goal of exporting the revolution, so to speak. If a no-deal Brexit occurs, and the relationship between the UK and the EU ices over, the tactic becomes widening the fault lines of the EU. And if you ignore people like Mark Francois, or people like Steve Bannon, you're giving them free rein to work with impunity. A fatal strategy.

Fair enough, but you have to look at the relative influence and indeed the potential influence of such people. The world has awoken to a far-right threat, a bulwark is setting itself up whether to Trump or AfD or Orban or Balsonaro. Those bigger countries are to be concerned about, but I just don't see it in Britain. Brexit is far from achieved, far from decided.

Manach · 01-09-2019 10:01pm

I can only speak of the historical narrative. There has been centuries of casting the Irish as both the "Other", ie non-English as well as a potential backdoor to outside forces ( from Catholicism, to various powers hostile to state). It is the latter, in modern terms Ireland's adherence to the EU which I'd suppose irks some sections of the political establishment.

ThePanjandrum · 01-09-2019 11:05pm

ilkhanid wrote: »

I think talk about Civil war is far-fetched, but I wouldn't totally rule violent incidents. One person has already died.

Which person do you mean? The only one I can think of is the Brexiter who was killed by his neighbour and that was probably for different reasons.

Britain is fine, there's no more hatred here than anywhere else and a lot less than in most of Europe. My Portuguese neighbours want to stay here, the Polish driver at work wants to bring up his child here, the Irish girl I worked with was having panic attacks at the toughts of returning and my Mother-in-Law who was brought up near Galway loves the odd visit home but knows that she could never live there.

Britain is a tolerant place in general so why are you so anxious to make it sound different?

ThePanjandrum · 01-09-2019 11:12pm

A few years ago I went to an Irish historical meeting with my wife which featured a Welshman telling the old boys there how terribly they were treated by the English when they came over to work.

Their response was that the English were fine, it was the other Irish you had to look out for. If you came from the wrong county then there was no way you were going to be given a job.

01-09-2019 11:18pm

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

it was the other Irish you had to look out for. If you came from the wrong county then there was no way you were going to be given a job.

Lol what a load of bollocks.

These Irish you speak of were the ones putting up “No blacks, no dogs, no Irish” signs up in their windows presumably?

Big_Evil · 01-09-2019 11:47pm

Ah hear. Its a bit of a stretch to say Civil War, but in saying that, I would put the UK at its closest to Civil War since the War of the Roses.

A lot of bad decisions and unfortunate events over a period of time need to happen for it to come to that, but its not at all beyond the bounds of possibility.

Nor would BREXIT be the reason for it, but rather, the complete stratification of society which has been happening for quite a long time now, and exacerbated by a hard BREXIT.

Scuffles and riots are possible once the BREXIT pinch starts to be felt by the population. How the authorities react to this is key.

For a civil disturbances to escalate to Civil War, the military are all important here. Should the UK government introduce Martial Law to maintain order, the situation then becomes weaponized. How the army reacts to this is crucial. Should the Army defect, or worse, split, then there are grounds for Civil War.

These events take time to boil over. Whatever the UK does by end of October will have a profound impact on the for decades. When coupled with a divided society, how profound remains to be seen.

fash · 02-09-2019 4:35am

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Which person do you mean? The only one I can think of is the Brexiter who was killed by his neighbour and that was probably for different reasons

Jo Cox was a Brexiter? Plus you've clearly been fooled by the name : "Jo" was short for Joanne - not Joseph - an easy mistake to make.

flanna01 · 02-09-2019 5:34am

What a load of complete and utter nonsense....

The word trolling springs to mind....

Brexit was the will of the people, the British Government have to follow through with their instruction.

Did the voting population really understand what Brexit entailed - That's another question for another thread?

The suggestion that the UK is a hate filled, racist, anti-Irish nation, bordering on civil war is ridiculous and pathetic.

I know many Irish families living in the UK, happy as Larry, all nervous and uncertain as to what Brexit will bring to their doorsteps... Not an ounce of intolerence from the British hosts..

Can't believe the rubbish people post on line....

toleratethis · 02-09-2019 10:12am

Batrachotox wrote: »

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

it was the other Irish you had to look out for. If you came from the wrong county then there was no way you were going to be given a job.

Lol what a load of bollocks.

Actually there is truth in that point. Local man here often told such stories. Spent most of his life working in the UK. Burying cables for the Post Office I believe (the harder the deadline the shallower the cables got buried under the footpaths). You'd have to be from the same area as the ganger, or related to someone already working for him or sling your hook. He has good Irish so often he'd pretend to have no English if posing as someones relation.

careless sherpa · 02-09-2019 10:20am

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Which person do you mean? The only one I can think of is the Brexiter who was killed by his neighbour and that was probably for different reasons.

Britain is fine, there's no more hatred here than anywhere else and a lot less than in most of Europe. My Portuguese neighbours want to stay here, the Polish driver at work wants to bring up his child here, the Irish girl I worked with was having panic attacks at the toughts of returning and my Mother-in-Law who was brought up near Galway loves the odd visit home but knows that she could never live there.

Britain is a tolerant place in general so why are you so anxious to make it sound different?

... and that's when the cannibalism started

j8wk2feszrnpao · 02-09-2019 10:25am

flanna01 wrote: »

Brexit was the will of the people, the British Government have to follow through with their instruction.

Actually, that's rubbish, they didn't. Can't believe the rubbish people post on line....

MadYaker · 02-09-2019 2:47pm

flanna01 wrote: »

What a load of complete and utter nonsense....

The word trolling springs to mind....

Brexit was the will of the people, the British Government have to follow through with their instruction.

Did the voting population really understand what Brexit entailed - That's another question for another thread?

The suggestion that the UK is a hate filled, racist, anti-Irish nation, bordering on civil war is ridiculous and pathetic.

I know many Irish families living in the UK, happy as Larry, all nervous and uncertain as to what Brexit will bring to their doorsteps... Not an ounce of intolerence from the British hosts..

Can't believe the rubbish people post on line....

Who’s supporting ukip and the brexit party so? They seem to have considerable support and there are no parties like them Ireland. For many UK voters brexit is all about getting foreigners out of the country.

partyguinness · 02-09-2019 3:26pm

I have been living in England for the past 10 years. For my sins, I am in a staunchly Brexit region.

Brexit voters can be classed into two general categories:

1. Male (and female), pale, stale retirees pining for the 1960s (and they vote in large numbers)

2. White working class tantrum who love to blame everyone else for their ****ty lives (see below), poorly educated and will believe any old rubbish

You have Johnny Foreigner who comes in and gets on with it. The (white) English will sit around bitching and moaning.

The Pakistanis like to joke that they are buying up the country from under their noses.

QEII in a very rare moment about 30 years was quoted as stating how insular the British people are in general. And it is true. For all the notions about being the centre of the world- they can barely look past their own nose.

As I read at the weekend, being completely ignorant of other cultures and the world at large is taken as a positive national trait over here.

They believe any old ****e as long as it is in a paper hence the sway tabloids have over politicians. The Irish have a healthy skepticism and distrust of authority- over here they believe anything you tell them if you dress it up to sound any bit official or important. Double barrelled name and plummy accents will also help.

Sure no wonder the Travelers make a killing over here. Easy pickings.

Another trait which I have noticed here is the willingness to blame others. They love nothing more than to bitch and moan about everyone else causing them problems and expecting someone else to wipe their ass (the EU has been the whipping boy for the last 40 years odd years).

There is no real 'get off your ass and sort it out yourself' attitude with the English and intellectually very lazy not stupid but lazy.

I can safely say that in any given social gathering I am more knowledgeable about UK history, current affairs, politics and geography than the natives. It's so effing well depressing that I now actively avoid social outings as the conversations are so bland and mind numbingly mundane it's untrue. A two hour conversation about the dog or little Sam's bed time routine.

Of course I am speaking generally based on my surroundings and not everyone is as above (don't get me started on the numerous individual instances of crass ignorance over the years). Even by English standards the area I work in is not noted for its academic or intellectual rigor.

Let's put it this way- the EDL and National Front have marches here a few times a year...

seamus · 02-09-2019 3:45pm

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Which person do you mean? The only one I can think of is the Brexiter who was killed by his neighbour and that was probably for different reasons.

Jo Cox.

The funny thing is that in an historical context we tend to view civil unrest and civil wars as things that kick off in a few days after a couple of heated arguments. Although we read about the build-up, we forget to immerse ourselves in it and to consider just how long these things actually take to kick off. It's all the little incidents in the years, months and weeks leading up to it. A parliamentary falling-out, someone gets killed, things go quiet for a while, protests, marches, etc.

It's only in retrospect that you realise that a civil war isn't a week of violence ending with the palace being stormed and the guillotines being rolled in. It's something that was going on for years.

Britain is fine, there's no more hatred here than anywhere else and a lot less than in most of Europe. My Portuguese neighbours want to stay here, the Polish driver at work wants to bring up his child here, the Irish girl I worked with was having panic attacks at the toughts of returning and my Mother-in-Law who was brought up near Galway loves the odd visit home but knows that she could never live there.

This is an example of survivorship bias - the people who are staying there like being there. Seems like an obvious relationship. The people who don't want to be there have left already.

In raw numbers, Irish passports issued to UK residents has more than doubled while British passports issued to NI residents has dropped. This would indicate that people are eager to give themselves the option of living somewhere that's not the UK.

flanna01 · 02-09-2019 3:55pm

MadYaker wrote: »

Who’s supporting ukip and the brexit party so? They seem to have considerable support and there are no parties like them Ireland. For many UK voters brexit is all about getting foreigners out of the country.

Clap trap.... Utter clap trap!!

Brexit is to leave the EU, not a racial thing....

'' For many UK voters brexit is all about getting foreigners out of the country''

??????

I thought the UK voters voted to leave the EU no..????

We had the civil war scenario previously, are you now suggesting this is about to become a race war..??

Poor England... They have enough on their plate with the real Brexit issues at the moment, thanks for enlightening us to your interpretation of it... Not!

partyguinness · 02-09-2019 4:03pm

I believe when the dust settles in maybe 5-10 years you will see the break up of the UK.

You will have Tory England and when they look at it in the cold light of day they do not give a flying fcuk about Scotland, Wales or NI. In fact there do not give a crap about anything past Watford.

Their attitude is "Why the hell are we joined together in this forced marriage? We do not need the rest so to hell with Scotland et al. What is so good about the UK of GB and NI anyway?"

partyguinness · 02-09-2019 4:42pm

flanna01 wrote: »

Clap trap.... Utter clap trap!!

Brexit is to leave the EU, not a racial thing....

'' For many UK voters brexit is all about getting foreigners out of the country''

??????

I thought the UK voters voted to leave the EU no..????

We had the civil war scenario previously, are you now suggesting this is about to become a race war..??

Poor England... They have enough on their plate with the real Brexit issues at the moment, thanks for enlightening us to your interpretation of it... Not!

Hate to interject but every single Brexit voter I have spoken to over the past 3 years in England cited 'too many emigrants' as a reason for voting for Brexit. In fact, it was the only reason I heard.

Nigel from Bromely does not give a crap or understand customs union or free trade. He sees too many Johnny Foreigner types taking 'our jobs and women'.

The fact that most emigrants are from south east Asia and eff all to do with the EU is totally lost on him. But it's convenient to blame Brussels.

It was about 'Taking back control [of the border]'

But no, there is no race war or civil war or anything of that nature. They are too busy with Love Island.

02-09-2019 4:53pm

seamus wrote: »

In raw numbers, Irish passports issued to UK residents has more than doubled while British passports issued to NI residents has dropped. This would indicate that people are eager to give themselves the option of living somewhere that's not the UK.

or just eager to avoid queues at passport control, which is the biggest advantage an Irish passport would give a British citizen.

partyguinness wrote: »

The fact that most emigrants are from south east Asia and eff all to do with the EU is totally lost on him. But it's convenient to blame Brussels.

is it lost on the South Asians though https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/11/03/why-did-south-asians-vote-for-brexit/

briany · 02-09-2019 5:10pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Hate to interject but every single Brexit voter I have spoken to over the past 3 years in England cited 'too many emigrants as a reason for voting for Brexit. In fact, it was the only reason I heard.

Nigel from Bromely does not give a crap or understand customs union or free trade. He sees too many Johnny Foreigner types taking 'our jobs and women'.

The fact that most emigrants are from south east Asia and eff all to do with the EU is totally lost on him. But it's convenient to blame Brussels.

We can't say that Brexit was entirely about immigration, but it cannot be denied that it was a large factor. Just look at the background. The migrant crisis and Merkel saying that these people should be distributed more evenly throughout Europe did not sit well with people in the UK. Look at Nigel Farage with his 'Breaking Point' poster, depicting a thick snaking caravan of non-Caucasian people. To add to that, the Dover-Calais route is seen as a primary vector for illegal immigration to the UK, and when Brexit politicians talk about 'controlling our borders', they're really talking about the Channel Tunnel.

partyguinness · 02-09-2019 5:11pm

Aegir wrote: »

or just eager to avoid queues at passport control, which is the biggest advantage an Irish passport would give a British citizen.

is it lost on the South Asians though https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/11/03/why-did-south-asians-vote-for-brexit/

Indeed. I am friends with an Asian guy (born and raised in the UK). His father was an emigrant from India.

While he voted Remain his father voted Out and cited emigrants. The son was like WTF? You fell off the boat less than 50 years ago.

02-09-2019 5:22pm

partyguinness wrote: »

While he voted Remain his father voted Out and cited emigrants. The son was like WTF? You fell off the boat less than 50 years ago.

My area voted remain, but I have a couple of friends of Pakistani descent who voted leave, because a group of Poles had set up a taxi company that was undercutting them on their fixed fair routes.

No one ever sees themselves as an immigrant I guess.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/the-irish-in-britain-who-back-brexit-in-my-circle-everyone-voted-leave-1.3820951

Mearings · 02-09-2019 7:29pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Civil war? get a grip! They'll be too busy fighting for food to have an ideological based conflict.

Let them eat Gateaux.

johnnyskeleton · 02-09-2019 7:45pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Sure no wonder the Travelers make a killing over here. Easy pickings.

Mod note:

Making prejudiced comments is a breach of the site rules. Doing so jn an attempt to prove how prejudiced British people are is just poor taste

partyguinness · 02-09-2019 8:13pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Mod note:

Making prejudiced comments is a breach of the site rules. Doing so jn an attempt to prove how prejudiced British people are is just poor taste

Hold on. Talk about completely misreading a post.

I was alluding to the fact that Irish Travelers do a lot of business and make a lot of money in England whereas in Ireland they would’ve told to get lost, the English can be a little too trusting and naive in believing everyone at face value.

I have no idea how that is an example of ‘British prejudice’ or how you came to that idea. If anything it’s quite the opposite. You have made yourself look very silly.

flanna01 · 02-09-2019 11:16pm

The title of this thread was ''Anti-Irish sediment in the UK''

My response to that title is - What utter nonsense!

The Irish living and working in Britain are treated respectfully, and have mainly integrated into British society without a problem. A lot of the Irish that left these shores back in the 1950s and 1960s as young teenagers and twenty somethings, have chosen to remain in Britain, and raised their children there.

Ireland currently has around 5% unemployment (which is basically full Employment), yet the amount of graduates still heading off to London / UK is amazing...

Of course you will still get the mindless moron shouting Irish out, Blacks out, Jews out, Gays out, Santa Claus out....
Its hardly a reflection of the majority of the British public is it...??

I have been to many towns and Citys in Britain, they are friendly, accommodating, and really couldn't give a hoot about you being Irish...

It's nonsense and trolling threads like, this that plant seeds of resentment in weak minds..

careless sherpa · 03-09-2019 1:45am

flanna01 wrote: »

The title of this thread was ''Anti-Irish sediment in the UK''

My response to that title is - What utter nonsense!

The Irish living and working in Britain are treated respectfully, and have mainly integrated into British society without a problem. A lot of the Irish that left these shores back in the 1950s and 1960s as young teenagers and twenty somethings, have chosen to remain in Britain, and raised their children there.

Ireland currently has around 5% unemployment (which is basically full Employment), yet the amount of graduates still heading off to London / UK is amazing...

Of course you will still get the mindless moron shouting Irish out, Blacks out, Jews out, Gays out, Santa Claus out....
Its hardly a reflection of the majority of the British public is it...??

I have been to many towns and Citys in Britain, they are friendly, accommodating, and really couldn't give a hoot about you being Irish...

It's nonsense and trolling threads like, this that plant seeds of resentment in weak minds..

I think you will find that it is the current British government and right wing media and their increasingly desperate attempts to make the Irish a scapegoat for their disastrous course of action which is resulting in some reactionary threads. Apportion blame appropriately

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2019 8:25am

flanna01 wrote: »

It's nonsense and trolling threads like, this that plant seeds of resentment in weak minds..

Don't accuse people of trolling here please. Use the report function.

partyguinness · 03-09-2019 12:11pm

I would echo that there is virtually no anti-Irish sentiment in England. I have been here over 10 years and I have never experienced any sort of anti-Irish sentiment whatsoever.

Quite the opposite in fact. Barely a week goes by that somebody will say 'Oh you're Irish. My I]insert relation of choice[/I was Irish. What part are you from?'

Sure to begin with I was a little self conscious but after a few weeks I realised nobody gives a crap. The vast majority of workplaces will have people from a variety of different backgrounds and cultures. I have experienced nothing but goodwill.

We are white and we speak fluent English. People need to appreciate that the UK has nearly 70m million people. It is a complex multi layered and multicultural society at the centre of world commerce and trade. It is on a level that Ireland can never imagine. Of course, it's not all roses and perfume but let's leave that to another thread.

Ireland (yes I know we love to think we are great altogether and everyone loves us) is a small indigenous island of 4m people off an island off the coast of Europe.

While we are little obsessed with British culture and Irish history has been 99.99% dominated by Britain the same cannot be said for Ireland's influence over Britain.

I work in a nondescript post industrial town in the West Midlands with over 280k people. A town the vast majority of Irish people will never have heard of but yet it is more populous than Galway, Waterford, Tallaght and Limerick combined. There are 6 million people within a 40 mile radius.

I deal with the public and just off the top of my head I have dealt the following nationalities on a weekly and daily basis over the past 12 months:-

Indian
Pakistani
Bengali
Chinese
Sri Lankan
Ghana
Ivory Coast
Iran
Iraq
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
Ukraine
France
Greece
Germany
Cyprus
Romania
Poland
Irish
South Africa
Jamaican
Grenada
Lithuanian
Vietnamese
Malaysian

My point being that while we are held in high regard for sure we are nothing special.

The Irish need to get over themselves looking for a persecution complex- we are old news. There has been some awful cringe worthy articles in the Irish Times in recent months.

Of course this is just my experience and I do not speak for anyone else.

cryptocurrency · 04-09-2019 7:26am

Not heard this from any Irish friends. I know substantial amounts who have noted dramatic increases in anti british abuse but hey, that doesn't or hasn't ever even been acknowledged as remotely important in irish society has it? Seems to be the acceptable type of abuse.

LoughNeagh2017 · 13-09-2019 3:04am

The average English person wouldn't know a thing about Anglo-Irish history, apart from whatever the Daily Mail feeds them about IRA attacks, as far as they are concerned the IRA were killing jolly young British soldiers who were playing scrabble and listening to Elvis Presley on the wireless at the time.

del_c · 24-09-2019 3:42pm

There are proportionally more people in Ireland born outside of Ireland living here than the comparable number in the UK.....so this idea that the UK is an exceptionally mixed populace, and Ireland "is a small indigenous island" is disingenuous.

"at the centre of world commerce and trade."//Ireland is a more open economy and a much bigger trading economy than England.

Talk of Ireland being merely an "island ... off an island", makes me think you need to get home for a while sir!

...though you'd probably enjoy this article
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/backdoor-backstop-ireland-s-shifting-relationship-britain-and-europe

partyguinness · 24-09-2019 5:15pm

del_c wrote: »

There are proportionally more people in Ireland born outside of Ireland living here than the comparable number in the UK.....so this idea that the UK is an exceptionally mixed populace, and Ireland "is a small indigenous island" is disingenuous.

14.4% of the UK population was born outside the UK
12.2% of the Irish population was born outside Ireland (coming from a very small base. What was it 20 years ago I wonder?)

Two important factors:

1. The percentage of people born in the UK to emigrants say, 2nd and 3rd generation The overwhelming number of emigrants in Ireland are first generation.
2. The sheer diversity of emigrants in the UK

Take out the Polish (predominantly white and Catholic like the Irish) community and it is not that diverse in Ireland and the percentage above would come way down. How people many from South Asia do you know in Ireland. Tiny tiny percentage.

del_c wrote: »

"at the centre of world commerce and trade."//Ireland is a more open economy and a much bigger trading economy than England.

GDP
$2.8 trillion v $450 billion

I guess the UK is far more dependent on Ireland than Ireland is on the UK. Right.

del_c wrote: »

Talk of Ireland being merely an "island ... off an island", makes me think you need to get home for a while sir!

...though you'd probably enjoy this article
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/09/backdoor-backstop-ireland-s-shifting-relationship-britain-and-europe

Read that weeks ago. And?

Don't confuse the political ****fest that is Brexit with the overall health of the country.

Ireland is an island off an island off the coast of Europe. That's a statement of geographical fact.

I lived in Ireland for over 30 years and back 4-5 times a year- it's not like I am in NZ. I have perspective.

I am not some apologist for the UK. All I am doing is giving it some context. As I have written here before, we love to think we are awfully important and big player in the world. Sorry to break it but we are not.

del_c · 24-09-2019 7:34pm

we're 1/8 the size of UK, but exports are a third of theirs in terms of volume...that's trade is a much bigger part of our economy

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/ireland/uk?sc=XE34

partyguinness · 24-09-2019 8:01pm

del_c wrote: »

we're 1/8 the size of UK, but exports are a third of theirs in terms of volume...that's trade is a much bigger part of our economy

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/ireland/uk?sc=XE34

Well yes because trade/manufacturing/industry is 38% of the Irish ecomony whereas it is 19% of the UK. Ireland is more reliant on industry.

Whereas services (finanical, legal, insurance) comprises 80% of the UK econ (London accounts for 49% alone), it is 60% of Ireland's.

It is a lot easier to trade in financial services than industry.

Anti-Irish sentiment in England. Civil War? etc.

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