1billion to build children's hospital

I said · 23-02-2017 7:05pm #1

Cost has more than doubled from 400million in 2012 to 1 billion today.
All I want to know is what shower of thieving,greedy,corrupt and backhander specialists are the only ones who think they know best for the country.Another waste of mine and all our money.
It would be some country if someone with sense ran it.

Gatling · 23-02-2017 7:09pm

Crazy but typical project here that always seems to costs spiral out of control

Spanish Eyes · 23-02-2017 7:09pm

I hope there is a Public Accounts Committee looking at this every step of the way.

Baffled how the price has gone up so much, but we are a nation of people (in general) who just shrug their shoulders and let it happen.

Surely there is a procurement process, fixed price contracts and maybe a bonus for finishing the job on time and on budget? There should also be a penalty for price over runs after the contract has been signed imv.

But is anyone surprised at this? I'm not. It's a disgrace Joe.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 23-02-2017 7:12pm

The whole thing is beyond a joke at this stage. It has cost millions so far and is barely beyond consultation stage. its criminal how the government has mismanaged the whole debacle since day one.

No one from the government or HSE should be allowed anywhere next or near the project until the job is complete.

R P McMurphy · 23-02-2017 7:12pm

I said wrote: »

Cost has more than doubled from 400million in 2012 to 1 billion today.
All I want to know is what shower of thieving,greedy,corrupt and backhander specialists are the only ones who think they know best for the country.Another waste of mine and all our money.
It would be some country if someone with sense ran it.

If it is projected at 1 billion before it has even started, who knows how much the final figure will escalate to.

helimachoptor · 23-02-2017 7:13pm

R P McMurphy wrote: »

If it is projected at 1 billion before it has even started, who knows how much the final figure will escalate to.

This...

Incompetence.

sydthebeat · 23-02-2017 7:13pm

This will have to go to Europe wide tender, and it's most likely some Spanish firm will win the contract to build it.

The inflation in price is purely down to misunderstood construction inflation in 2012 (labour costs on the floor) and the selection of the site being a logistical nightmare.

23-02-2017 7:13pm

Or about a third as much as the current World Trade Centre.

the groutch · 23-02-2017 7:14pm

It's like the "Bertie Bowl" all over again.

Cheensbo · 23-02-2017 7:17pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

This will have to go to Europe wide tender, and it's most likely some Spanish firm will win the contract to build it.

The inflation in price is purely down to misunderstood construction inflation in 2012 (labour costs on the floor) and the selection of the site being a logistical nightmare.

It's already awarded to bam as the main contractor...

It will overrun, it's a needlessly fancy building.

23-02-2017 7:21pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

This will have to go to Europe wide tender, and it's most likely some Spanish firm will win the contract to build it.

The inflation in price is purely down to misunderstood construction inflation in 2012 (labour costs on the floor) and the selection of the site being a logistical nightmare.

It should go to the FBI to find out where the money went. Misunderstood labour costs doesn't explain a bill of a billion.

Wouldnt you love to see an itemized list of costs?

January · 23-02-2017 7:24pm

Should build it at Connolly.

sydthebeat · 23-02-2017 7:42pm

Cheensbo wrote: »

It's already awarded to bam as the main contractor...

It will overrun, it's a needlessly fancy building.

Bam, so the Dutch then....

The horse is far beyond the hill at this stage and the door is still swinging open

4068ac1elhodqr · 23-02-2017 7:42pm

Maybe what's needed, is someone like the Trump:

“We’re opening the Old Post Office. Under budget, ahead of schedule, saved tremendous money. I’m a year ahead of schedule. And that’s what this country should be doing.” —Donald Trump, remarks in the first presidential debate, Sept. 26, 2016.

Probably requires some fact-checking, but fair to say he wouldn't have time for quangos and pen-pushers.

That may not go down well with placard wavers, so another alternative could be to draft in Engineers from the Army if the building is deemed an emergency national requirement. Perhaps also a better use, than calling for them to attack rhododendrons at a national park.

Cheensbo · 23-02-2017 7:46pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Bam, so the Dutch then....

The horse is far beyond the hill at this stage and the door is still swinging open

Bam Ireland, so whatever way you want to look at it I guess.

It couldn't be built for 500m anyway so that estimate was way off, and 1bn doesn't include the full fit out either.

Special Circumstances · 23-02-2017 7:50pm

Makenzie Shaggy Marrow wrote: »

so another alternative could be to draft in Engineers from the Army if the building is deemed an emergency national requirement. Perhaps also a better use, than calling for them to attack rhododendrons at a national park.

I don't think that would be their area of expertise at all. In fact it sound like a terrible idea.

The hospital part I mean. Clearing the Rhodos is a pretty good idea tbf.

4068ac1elhodqr · 23-02-2017 8:12pm

The proposed €1 billion National Children’s Hospital in Dublin will be 'the most expensive children’s hospital to be built anywhere in the world', according to international data.

Interesting that recent comparable ones (Glasgow & Adelaide) feature robots for food and linen delivery, perhaps it will be cost saving after all?

Red Kev · 23-02-2017 8:21pm

Makenzie Shaggy Marrow wrote: »

The proposed €1 billion National Children’s Hospital in Dublin will be 'the most expensive children’s hospital to be built anywhere in the world', according to international data.

Interesting that recent comparable ones (Glasgow & Adelaide) feature robots for food and linen delivery, perhaps it will be cost saving after all?

The unions won't like that at all.

cnocbui · 23-02-2017 8:21pm

Well the Irish Times is thick, then.

The Adelaide Children's hospital has already cost more than double the projected cost, at €2.2 B already spent. For that they are getting 800 beds.

The Dublin children's hospital - if it only costs €1 B (highly unlikely) will provide 473 beds, so the cost is very comparable.

Try the new Apple spcaeship campus building. €4.7 B at €18,256 per sq meter, vs the DCH at €8,467 per sq meter.

dexter_morgan · 23-02-2017 8:24pm

One Billion! Nice round figure! Could they not have said it was going to cost 969 million? At least it would have sounded like they weren't plucking figures from the sky!

ChikiChiki · 23-02-2017 8:27pm

I said wrote: »

Cost has more than doubled from 400million in 2012 to 1 billion today.
All I want to know is what shower of thieving,greedy,corrupt and backhander specialists are the only ones who think they know best for the country.Another waste of mine and all our money.
It would be some country if someone with sense ran it.

So we are looking at 1.5 to 2bn in reality. Our govt is absolutely useless. So ineffective at meaningful change and good infrastructural delivery. But sure the economy is flying ehhhh!

Just look at all the children affected with scoliosis who cannot get treatment while these people dilly dally and take years to make a decision.

RobertKK · 23-02-2017 9:08pm

Sounds like Room to improve, where the budget is never big enough.

nice_guy80 · 23-02-2017 9:12pm

why it isn't being built on a greenfield site, i do not know

Anita Blow · 23-02-2017 9:13pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

why it isn't being built on a greenfield site, i do not know

Because a greenfield site doesn't have the level of public transport access nor co-location it would need.

punisher5112 · 23-02-2017 9:16pm

Hospital should be built out of the city for starters and have its own link road in and out.

I suppose they have the money from all the stealth taxes and property tax so they think oh great instead of getting rid of our debts they just want to add more.

Prison build is another important structure needed.

Allinall · 23-02-2017 9:25pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Hospital should be built out of the city for starters and have its own link road in and out.

I suppose they have the money from all the stealth taxes and property tax so they think oh great instead of getting rid of our debts they just want to add more.

Prison build is another important structure needed.

How do people without cars access the hospital?

nkav86 · 23-02-2017 9:26pm

Can I ask.... How do we as a country afford to spend millions on charitable cause in other countries and struggling to finance projects like this at home?

I know there's a huge difference in amounts there, and before anyone says anything this is not a 'we shouldn't be helping them when we cant help our own' kinda thing. I'm genuinely curious, is it that those donations are 'on paper' and don't get actually dished out for a number of years?

Surely for something like a hospital there has got to priority and if we have enough left over then we try help out others.... This is probably a stupid question, but I'm a bit clueless

suicide_circus · 23-02-2017 9:40pm

We as a society only need to look to ourselves, our families, our friends, our neighbours when we're trying to figure out why everything costs so much in ireland. Everyone is ripping everyone else off.

Allinall · 23-02-2017 9:42pm

nkav86 wrote: »

Can I ask.... How do we as a country afford to spend millions on charitable cause in other countries and struggling to finance projects like this at home?

I know there's a huge difference in amounts there, and before anyone says anything this is not a 'we shouldn't be helping them when we cant help our own' kinda thing. I'm genuinely curious, is it that those donations are 'on paper' and don't get actually dished out for a number of years?

Surely for something like a hospital there has got to priority and if we have enough left over then we try help out others.... This is probably a stupid question, but I'm a bit clueless

I don't think we have any problem affording both.

We are a very rich country, despite what left whingers say.

nice_guy80 · 23-02-2017 9:50pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

Because a greenfield site doesn't have the level of public transport access nor co-location it would need.

move the other hospital out too
how hard can it be to run a regular bus service to a new hospital?

Capt'n Midnight · 23-02-2017 9:50pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

Because a greenfield site doesn't have the level of public transport access nor co-location it would need.

For public transport they could have extended the Luas from Citywest to Peamount ?

Anita Blow · 23-02-2017 9:54pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Anita Blow wrote: »

Because a greenfield site doesn't have the level of public transport access nor co-location it would need.

move the other hospital out too
how hard can it be to run a regular bus service to a new hospital?

Move the largest hospital in the country? James is 3x larger than the proposed children's hospital in terms of beds. It doesn't make economic or practical sense to move it

Anita Blow · 23-02-2017 9:57pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Anita Blow wrote: »

Because a greenfield site doesn't have the level of public transport access nor co-location it would need.

For public transport they could have extended the Luas from Citywest to Peamount ?

And what about co-location? Or even proximity to the maternity hospitals, which is another important factor? The closest major maternity hospital is The Coombe, which is 30 minutes away by car

kirving · 23-02-2017 9:59pm

nkav86 wrote: »

Can I ask.... How do we as a country afford to spend millions on charitable cause in other countries and struggling to finance projects like this at home.

Surely for something like a hospital there has got to priority and if we have enough left over then we try help out others.... This is probably a stupid question, but I'm a bit clueless

Because it doens't matter a ****e how much money we pump into the health service, they'll just demand more.

Yourself isit · 23-02-2017 10:02pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

We as a society only need to look to ourselves, our families, our friends, our neighbours when we're trying to figure out why everything costs so much in ireland. Everyone is ripping everyone else off.

I'm not sure how I'm ripping my employer off. Explain?

punisher5112 · 23-02-2017 10:03pm

Allinall wrote: »

How do people without cars access the hospital?

Public transport and also design it that luas or similar can be used to get you to the door. Not everything needs to be in the centre where its near impossible to get in or out of.

Jane98 · 23-02-2017 10:15pm

The €1Bn doesn't even include fit out costs. They could be an extra 500m, so we're looking at €1.5Bn before any over runs.

Cartouche · 23-02-2017 10:19pm

I said wrote: »

Cost has more than doubled from 400million in 2012 to 1 billion today.
All I want to know is what shower of thieving,greedy,corrupt and backhander specialists are the only ones who think they know best for the country.Another waste of mine and all our money.
It would be some country if someone with sense ran it.

I would be more surprised if a project was done on budget

Theres no accountability in Ireland so the taxpayer will bear the cost and stay silent about it

mikeoneilly · 23-02-2017 10:37pm

It's getting the damn thing to function properly after its built that's the main concern imo

ChikiChiki · 23-02-2017 10:40pm

Cartouche wrote: »

I would be more surprised if a project was done on budget

Theres no accountability in Ireland so the taxpayer will bear the cost and stay silent about it

Irish people tend to stay silent and bicker amongst one another whilst never questioning the people whom the decision lies with.

Another thing about this project is the choice of location. The area around James suffers from severe traffic congestion As Is. With no sign of decent public transport on the horizon and people being forced to live out in the sticks and commute from there, that issue will only worsen. The choice of location is very poor imo and it should be built further out along the M50 which come to think of it is a disaster nowadays aswell.

Our way of thinking needs to change from oh **** what infrastructure do we need right now to what infrastructure will we need in 5-10 years down the line.

gramar · 23-02-2017 10:42pm

Surely someone like Mick Wallace could do it for less?

Allinall · 23-02-2017 10:44pm

gramar wrote: »

Surely someone like Mick Wallace could do it for less?

We'd save on the VAT at least.

farmerwifelet · 23-02-2017 10:47pm

When HP were getting planning permission in Leixlip, they had to have a dual purpose building so they chose a hospital. It meant it can easily be converted to a hospital, has large grounds, hundreds for car park spaces and is easily accessible. Why can't they use this instead? It wouldn't cost a billion! :rolleyes:

SILVAMAN · 23-02-2017 10:49pm

I said wrote: »

Cost has more than doubled from 400million in 2012 to 1 billion today.
All I want to know is what shower of thieving,greedy,corrupt and backhander specialists are the only ones who think they know best for the country.Another waste of mine and all our money.
It would be some country if someone with sense ran it.

Didn't Jimmy Sheehan of the Galway Clinic offer to build it fro free on a site on the outskirts of Dublin?
You'd wonder who's got their fingers in the pie that it has to be packed sardine-like in James's. Outrageous choice of site. Certainly the best interests of future patients don't figure in the plans.

etar · 23-02-2017 10:51pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

Because a greenfield site doesn't have the level of public transport access nor co-location it would need.

my son has been to temple street many many times, for major surgeries and check ups, public transport is only ok for check ups and even then not ideal and results in over night stays, however anyone facing into major surgery can never consider public transport due to the risks of infection and illnesses.
also keep in mind that public transport from most of the south of ireland to Dublin is non-existent or takes longer to get to dublin than most people take to get to America.

SILVAMAN · 23-02-2017 10:56pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

Because a greenfield site doesn't have the level of public transport access nor co-location it would need.

Don't pi** on my leg and tell me it's raining.
Can you explain an almost finished motorway to Tuam, of all places, or the train from Ennis to Galway which, carries a handful of passengers, serves no major employment centres close to the stations, and costs €90 subsidy per passenger?
Where there's a will there's a way.

gctest50 · 23-02-2017 10:58pm

How are they going to staff this wonderful creation ?

How long before it turns into another cesspit of doctors doing 36 hour shifts ?

Guy:Incognito · 23-02-2017 10:59pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Public transport and also design it that luas or similar can be used to get you to the door. Not everything needs to be in the centre where its near impossible to get in or out of.

Run special luas carriages with big red crosses on them.it'll be great on a hot day. Virus incubators. Yay.

Jump on with your broken arm crammer in with loads of other sick people and get a nice infection to boot.

ChikiChiki · 23-02-2017 11:13pm

farmerwifelet wrote: »

When HP were getting planning permission in Leixlip, they had to have a dual purpose building so they chose a hospital. It meant it can easily be converted to a hospital, has large grounds, hundreds for car park spaces and is easily accessible. Why can't they use this instead? It wouldn't cost a billion! :rolleyes:

That makes absolute sense if true! Then the money would be better spent on a second ringroad to the west of the M50 linking the M4 and M7.

The HP campus is accessible from the M4 with its own off ramp and has bus and rail close by.

farmerwifelet · 23-02-2017 11:23pm

Yes HP is very easily accessed. The clean rooms were designed so that they could be turned into operating theatres.

TheRiverman · 23-02-2017 11:24pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

Because a greenfield site doesn't have the level of public transport access nor co-location it would need.

What about the public transport needed for the rest of the country to get in and out of this hell hole if it is ever built?.It should be on a green field site out from the city somewhere on the M4 or M7.

1billion to build children's hospital

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