Declaration of identity when buying a house

flogen · 20-04-2015 3:37pm #1

Hey all - I posted this in Accommodation/Property but figure this forum might be a better fit... if the mods would rather me not have two threads running feel free to lock/move/delete.

I'm in the middle of buying a property and am in a bit of a muddle over the need for a declaration of identity.

My solicitor tells me that this is required by the bank (though friends of mine who have bought recently with the same bank didn't encounter the same issue).

When I told the surveyor I'm using that I'd need one he said he does a boundary check as part of the survey but would have to charge extra (€250 on top of the €500 he's going to charge for the survey) for a formal declaration of identity.

If it's the case that I have to get it done then so be it, I'll bite the bullet... but I just want to check here to see if someone has gotten their wires crossed - or if they surveyor is extracting the urine with his quote - and I'm about to pay out €750 for nothing.

Thanks for any thoughts on this...

coylemj · 20-04-2015 4:01pm

I don't what that stuff about the surveyor is about but your solicitor will ask you for your PPS number as the Revenue want to know who's buying houses to make sure that the source of the money can be accounted for i.e. that you are a taxpayer and haven't suddenly 'magiced' the money from nowhere.

flogen · 20-04-2015 4:43pm

coylemj wrote: »

I don't what that stuff about the surveyor is about but your solicitor will ask you for your PPS number as the Revenue want to know who's buying houses to make sure that the source of the money can be accounted for i.e. that you are a taxpayer and haven't suddenly 'magiced' the money from nowhere.

Sorry - I should have been clearer; the declaration of identity is relating to the property, not me!

Uno my Uno. · 20-04-2015 4:48pm

If the bank require a Declaration of identity the Vendor should be providing it and paying for it not you.

flogen · 20-04-2015 5:24pm

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

If the bank require a Declaration of identity the Vendor should be providing it and paying for it not you.

Thanks - if that's the case I'm a bit confused as to why my solicitor is telling me to arrange/pay for it.

Johnboy1951 · 20-04-2015 7:10pm

flogen wrote: »

Thanks - if that's the case I'm a bit confused as to why my solicitor is telling me to arrange/pay for it.

According to this page it is the seller who provides that .....

If your house is a “one off” house, possibly constructed by you, then you should provide your solicitor with the following.

A copy of the Planning Permission granted and receipts for financial contributions as required in the Planning Permission. These should include a receipt for the Commencement Notice (if applicable).
A valid Certificate of Compliance with Planning Permission and Building Regulations.
A Declaration of Identity for the property.

http://www.sfr.ie/sellers-guide/

flogen · 20-04-2015 7:32pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

According to this page it is the seller who provides that .....

http://www.sfr.ie/sellers-guide/

Thanks... that's worded in an odd way; not clear if it only applies to 'one off' builds or all properties.

Johnboy1951 · 20-04-2015 7:57pm

flogen wrote: »

Thanks... that's worded in an odd way; not clear if it only applies to 'one off' builds or all properties.

I hope you read the complete page to decide which situation applied to the seller of the property you are buying

There is also this page

http://www.sfr.ie/buyers-guide/

flogen · 20-04-2015 8:04pm

I did - and from reading the two of them I'd still feel it's the vendor's job... What I've since been told that, as the "entire folio is being sold" it's my job to arrange. I'm not sure what that means exactly, as opposed to any other type of property sale, so another phone call will be required!

Pat Mustard · 20-04-2015 8:44pm

You are going to get conflicting information here. Some is correct and some is not.
People may advise you to look at general condition 14 of the contract for sale which deals with the identity of the property. Others might say that general condition 14 might be excluded by the special conditions of the contract.

One thing is certain: nobody can tell you without having had sight of the contract and the correspondence on the file.

With regards to the bank, if you borrow over a certain amount (75k I think?) the bank will appoint a solicitor from its panel to deal with the mortgage. This is almost always a pain in the backside. Depending on who the bank's solicitors are, they sometimes look for the kitchen sink before they will agree to release money. Your solicitor tells you that they are looking for a declaration of identity. Some buddy of yours may have borrowed €40k and the issue may not have arisen with his bank.

Then there is the cost of the declaration of identity. Your surveyor has already checked the boundaries but now he wants €250 to sign a piece of paper to confirm that he did so. I wouldn't be the slightest bit impressed with that attitude. Many of them will sign for no additional charge.

Don't take my word for it. Your solicitor knows the details and should be able to confirm any of this.

flogen · 20-04-2015 9:16pm

Pat Mustard wrote: »

You are going to get conflicting information here. Some is correct and some is not.
People may advise you to look at general condition 14 of the contract for sale which deals with the identity of the property. Others might say that general condition 14 might be excluded by the special conditions of the contract.

One thing is certain: nobody can tell you without having had sight of the contract and the correspondence on the file.

With regards to the bank, if you borrow over a certain amount (75k I think?) the bank will appoint a solicitor from its panel to deal with the mortgage. This is almost always a pain in the backside. Depending on who the bank's solicitors are, they sometimes look for the kitchen sink before they will agree to release money. Your solicitor tells you that they are looking for a declaration of identity. Some buddy of yours may have borrowed €40k and the issue may not have arisen with his bank.

Then there is the cost of the declaration of identity. Your surveyor has already checked the boundaries but now he wants €250 to sign a piece of paper to confirm that he did so. I wouldn't be the slightest bit impressed with that attitude. Many of them will sign for no additional charge.

Don't take my word for it. Your solicitor knows the details and should be able to confirm any of this.

Thanks - Yes I'm not too sure if I'm willing to go with the surveyor in question (they've not done the survey yet) if I end up having to get the declaration done. Am going to try another to see if they charge less.

On the issue itself, though, my solicitor has said that as it's the "entire folio" being sold I have to sort the declaration - the vendor would do so if it was a new property.

I don't see anything in the special conditions that refer to the declaration etc but I may well be missing something.

Just getting more confused as time goes on!

Pat Mustard · 20-04-2015 10:20pm

Well, here's how this dance often goes;

-Gis a declaration of identity.
-No.
-G'wan.
-I said no chance.
-Well it's up to you to give it. You're the seller.
-Don't care. I'm not putting my client to that expense. Your client already has an engineer: Get him to do it.
-*big sigh* Grand so.

busylady · 20-04-2015 11:35pm

It's a requirement for the banks also - your solicitor has to obtain a Declaration of Identity in order to be able to comply with the bank'so title requirements.

Uno my Uno. · 21-04-2015 10:39am

Declarations of Identity are usually only necessary where a house/property has been "carved out" of another property or is part of a development. eg the large garden of a house has had 3 townhouses built on it. In such circumstances it would be typical for a vendor to provide a declaration of identity and I would expect any buyer's solicitor to insist on it (after all the vendor should have got one when he bought the place himself).

If that isn't the case here but the Bank requires a declaration for reasons best known to themselves you may be on a sticky wicket trying to get the vendor to pay for it.

flogen · 21-04-2015 11:03am

Thanks for all of that.

Can anyone understand why it being the whole folio would put the onus on me, rather than the vendor, to supply it?

If it's the case that the vendor is simply refusing that's another thing but that's not what I'm being told...

Uno my Uno. · 21-04-2015 2:15pm

flogen wrote: »

Thanks for all of that.

Can anyone understand why it being the whole folio would put the onus on me, rather than the vendor, to supply it?

If it's the case that the vendor is simply refusing that's another thing but that's not what I'm being told...

If the entire folio is being transferred then a declaration of Identity wouldn't normally be required (unless the folio in question was subdivided from another larger Folio.)

Why exactly do you need a declaration of Identity? Is it simply a bank matter or is the property part of a development?

flogen · 22-04-2015 6:16pm

Uno my Uno. wrote: »

If the entire folio is being transferred then a declaration of Identity wouldn't normally be required (unless the folio in question was subdivided from another larger Folio.)

Why exactly do you need a declaration of Identity? Is it simply a bank matter or is the property part of a development?

Bank have asked for it before they'll draw down.

Declaration of identity when buying a house

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