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Ultra-Orthodox Jews in mass protest against integration

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  • 21-06-2010 1:42pm
    #1
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭


    Ultra-Orthodox Jews have staged one of the biggest protests seen in Israel, to demand their children be educated separately from other Israelis.

    Police said 120,000 Ashkenazi Jews rallied in Jerusalem and near Tel Aviv.

    They turned out to support parents who refused to let their girls share classrooms with Jewish pupils of Sephardic or Middle Eastern descent.

    The protests were triggered by a court ruling sentencing some 80 Ashkenazi parents to jail.

    The parents face two weeks in jail for contempt of court and were due to start their sentence on Thursday.

    'Court is fascist'
    The Ashkenazi parents, who are of European descent, want segregated classrooms because they say Sephardi families are not religious enough.

    Some 100,000 protesters marched through Jerusalem with the 40 couples, who planned to hand themselves over to the police in compliance with a Supreme Court ruling.

    About 10,000 police officers were mobilised in the city.

    Continue reading the main story
    I don't want my daughter to be educated with a girl who has a TV at home

    Marchers brandished placards and banners. "The Supreme Court is fascist," one poster read.

    One protester, parent and rabbi, Meir Elmaliach, told the crowd from a makeshift stage: "We are strong because God is with us."

    A similar protest in Bnei Brak near Tel Aviv drew about 20,000 people, said police.

    The families at the centre of the legal battle come from a strictly observant sect of Hasidic Jews called Slonim, who have Ashkenazi lineage.

    'Not a drop of racism'
    They have pulled their children out of Beit Yaakov girls' school in the West Bank settlement of Immanuel, and set up lessons elsewhere in the area.

    The Slonim parents say their objections are based on differences in religious observance between the Ashkenazi and Sephardi traditions.

    Yakov Litzman, an MP from the ultra-Orthodox Ashkenazi party, United Torah Judaism (UTJ), told army radio there was "not a drop of racism" in the parents' decision.

    "There is a set of rules [in the ultra-Orthodox community]. We don't want televisions in the home, there are rules of modesty, we are against the internet," Mr Litzman was quoted as saying by AFP news agency.

    "I don't want my daughter to be educated with a girl who has a TV at home."

    The court had given the parents until Wednesday to send their children back to school, but they refused.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10338900.stm

    120,000 people marched in protest against integration? Another protest in another area gathered a further 20,000. That is absurdity at the highest of levels.

    They are against the internet and television. I mean, god forbid their children become open minded and break away from their outdated and sectarian ideologies.


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    #2
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    dlofnep wrote: »
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10338900.stm

    120,000 people marched in protest against integration? Another protest in another area gathered a further 20,000. That is absurdity at the highest of levels.

    They are against the internet and television. I mean, god forbid their children become open minded and break away from their outdated and sectarian ideologies.

    I'm pretty sure that they are also exempt from doing national service, receive an income from the state but have a disproportionate amount of influence within the Knesset and are known to be very hard line when it comes to the Palestine question.

    In other words, these guys live an idillic traditional life, paid for by the blood and sweat of normal Israelis.


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    #3
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    All of gods chosen people are equal, but some are more equal than others.


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    #4
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that they are also exempt from doing national service, receive an income from the state but have a disproportionate amount of influence within the Knesset and are known to be very hard line when it comes to the Palestine question.

    In other words, these guys live an idillic traditional life, paid for by the blood and sweat of normal Israelis.

    Thats exactly right, Haredi get extensive exemptions from IDF service so they expect secular soldiers to protect them but they also expect not to have to integrate into secular society.

    The Haredi do not represent the jewish people as a whole and to try and represent it as such is a falsity.

    Also there are groups in other societies that live a more traditional life like Amish and Mennonites so I don't think you can criticise them on that front. The only reason I can see for you posting this is that the Haredi are in Israel and you'll bring up any story to try and criticise Israel.

    The story here is that the Supreme court did its job and applied the law impartially.


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    #5
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Rather underlines what I often say though...theres no such thing as "the Jews", anymore than "the muslims" etc.


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    #6
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Nodin wrote: »
    Rather underlines what I often say though...theres no such thing as "the Jews", anymore than "the muslims" etc.

    Of course, no more than anyone can say "All jews are this" or "All muslims are that"


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    #7
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Thats exactly right, Haredi get extensive exemptions from IDF service so they expect secular soldiers to protect them but they also expect not to have to integrate into secular society.

    The Haredi do not represent the jewish people as a whole and to try and represent it as such is a falsity.

    Also there are groups in other societies that live a more traditional life like Amish and Mennonites so I don't think you can criticise them on that front. The only reason I can see for you posting this is that the Haredi are in Israel and you'll bring up any story to try and criticise Israel.

    The story here is that the Supreme court did its job and applied the law impartially.

    I posted it to put some context on the situation in Israel. These guys are to all intents and purpose, extremists that commkand a lot of power within Israel and they should not be considered to be the norm.

    The vast majority of Israelis view this lot with disdain.


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    #8
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I posted it to put some context on the situation in Israel. These guys are to all intents and purpose, extremists that commkand a lot of power within Israel and they should not be considered to be the norm.

    The vast majority of Israelis view this lot with disdain.

    Nothing I said contradicts what you said, indeed I would say it supports it.

    I've posted in a number of threads that the Israel needs the Haredi like a hole in the head.


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    #9
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    The Haredi do not represent the jewish people as a whole and to try and represent it as such is a falsity. .

    Out of curiosity, who did that?


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    #10
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    The only reason I can see for you posting this is that the Haredi are in Israel and you'll bring up any story to try and criticise Israel.

    The thread has nothing to do with the state of Israel. It has to do with Ultra-Orthodox Jewish minority who live there, and who are unwilling to integrate.

    If that's the only reason you can see for someone posting this thread, then I feel sorry for you. You need to get rid of that defensive attitude. I only caught wind of this story because I saw it on Google News. I didn't post it here with intent of criticizing Israel. I posted it with intent of showing that there is a serious integration problem that exists there, that's spurred on by ultra-orthodox Jewish folk.

    If the above doesn't satisfy your curiosity, that's unfortunate.


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    #11
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    feckin religon


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    #12
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    there are nutters in every country.

    What`s the question/point of this thread again?


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    #13
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    1. Reasonable mutual politeness is expected.

    2. Idiotic ramblings with abusive language are not expected or wanted. They just look idiotic and are just going to be deleted at the very least.

    3. Using the "The only reason I can see for you to post..." is pointless, kindly don't do that again or similar, preferably ever.

    4. Having said that, dlofnep, given that you're particular about saying that you didn't start this thread to have any view on the state of Israel, please establish (not for me, for the participants) your rationale for it having a Politics dimension as I'm sure you'll be wanting to do that in your next post or so (and this forum just being the most likely fit doesn't cut it). While you don't have to try very hard, you have to try.

    /mod


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    #14
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    No problem.

    In response to a discussion about the state of Israel, it would imply that I was attempting have a go at Israel, at a state level - ie: criticise their Government, or indeed the state as a whole. That was certainly not my intention for creating this thread. My intentions therefore were to highlight an underlying problem within Israeli society from the Orthodox community, which normal Israelis will need to overcome to achieve stability in not only their own state, but indeed the region as a whole. I felt it was worth discussing the impact that such a community may have on society overall.

    I felt this had particular importance as it was one of the largest protests in Israeli history - a protest which objected to the idea of integration. This has political implications for the region, as it will not allow it to move forward until this minority element of Israel changes from the ground up. I felt it was worth discussing.


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