Cheap accountant

CPTM · 17-04-2021 5:51am #1

I have a very simple business account with about 40 invoices, 10 expense receipts, and 1 large wage drawdown per year. Does anyone know a cheap enough crowd who could do the year-end accounts for me at a good rate? I'm currently paying over 2500 to someone, spread across the year, which feels a bit much.

Irishphotodesk · 17-04-2021 6:31am

Are you operating as self employed or a company? Is the accountant doing bookkeeping and income tax returns?
Can you explain what you mean by saying your accountant does invoices ?
What sector are you in ?

The accountant usually charges reflective on the amount of work needed, I'm self employed (sole trader) and my accountant calculates my vat monthly and income tax annually (give my accountant bank statements and receipts, and I outline any out of the ordinary income/receipts) I could have 20different sources of income in a given year and they store my documents for 7yrs.... For this my accountant charges under €1k .

Where in Ireland are you based ? Maybe try goto another accountant and ask how much they would charge, then decide if you want to change accountant ...or ask your accountant if they are willing to lower their fees.

Xander10 · 17-04-2021 6:33am

Sounds a bit expensive, I presume we are talking a Limited co, that has to file accounts?

CPTM · 17-04-2021 7:29am

Xander10 wrote: »

Sounds a bit expensive, I presume we are talking a Limited co, that has to file accounts?

Yes, thanks. It's a Ltd company with one single employee. There is a single client crediting the business account and a single employee receiving wages from it. It feels like a lot of money for something which could probably be done in an afternoon. In fairness, my current accountant is processing payroll and VAT on a monthly basis. But if it reduced costs I would do the VAT myself (if I'm allowed) and just take one or two salary payments in a given year.

CPTM · 17-04-2021 7:34am

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Are you operating as self employed or a company? Is the accountant doing bookkeeping and income tax returns?
Can you explain what you mean by saying your accountant does invoices ?
What sector are you in ?

The accountant usually charges reflective on the amount of work needed, I'm self employed (sole trader) and my accountant calculates my vat monthly and income tax annually (give my accountant bank statements and receipts, and I outline any out of the ordinary income/receipts) I could have 20different sources of income in a given year and they store my documents for 7yrs.... For this my accountant charges under €1k .

Where in Ireland are you based ? Maybe try goto another accountant and ask how much they would charge, then decide if you want to change accountant ...or ask your accountant if they are willing to lower their fees.

Sorry I didn't see this. I'm an IT contractor who invoices a single client under my ltd company. I invoice the client about 40 times in a year (some weeks are lumped together if I forgot to invoice) and I hand all those invoices to my accountant, and presumably he calculates VAT on the back of that. Based in Dublin.

How do you manage your payroll? Do you drawdown your wages from your account and calculate income tax etc yourself? Edit: I know the accountant calculates it yearly but I suppose you need to know how much income tax is to be paid to ensure enough is left in the account to pay to revenue at year-end?

davindub · 17-04-2021 8:00am

CPTM wrote: »

Sorry I didn't see this. I'm an IT contractor who invoices a single client under my ltd company. I invoice the client about 40 times in a year (some weeks are lumped together if I forgot to invoice) and I hand all those invoices to my accountant, and presumably he calculates VAT on the back of that. Based in Dublin.

How do you manage your payroll? Do you drawdown your wages from your account and calculate income tax etc yourself? Edit: I know the accountant calculates it yearly but I suppose you need to know how much income tax is to be paid to ensure enough is left in the account to pay to revenue at year-end?

Wages are handled differently for a sole trader, being drawings rather than salary.

A Ltd company is a lot more work than a sole trader and 2500 sounds about reasonable in Dublin for VAT, payroll, Ltd company accounts, filings and income tax/ CT tax return for a small operation.

DmanDmythDledge · 17-04-2021 10:32am

I'd be wary of anyone charging less than 2/2.5k

CPTM · 17-04-2021 10:57am

And is this feedback the same if I just received one payroll payment per year? I'm obviously vastly underestimating the amount of work which needs to happen aside from payroll? I'll admit I don't know much about accounting.

markmoto · 17-04-2021 12:13pm

CPTM wrote: »

I have a very simple business account with about 40 invoices, 10 expense receipts, and 1 large wage drawdown per year. Does anyone know a cheap enough crowd who could do the year-end accounts for me at a good rate? I'm currently paying over 2500 to someone, spread across the year, which feels a bit much.

Total Rip off.

1. Signup online to payroll software simplepay for 1 employer @ 50 euro per year.

2. Get FREE, VT Cash Book accounting software (PC windows) to record your expenses/purchases with auto vat return calculator

3. Hire accountant to teach you how to file income tax return etc end of year for 500e once off
If everything organize over the year it takes 20 min to file.

Need more help PM me or click Thanks button : )

Immy · 17-04-2021 12:21pm

markmoto wrote: »

Total Rip off.

1. Signup online to payroll software simplepay for 1 employer @ 50 euro per year.

2. Get FREE, VT Cash Book accounting software (PC windows) to record your expenses/purchases with automatic vat return calculator

3. Hire accountant to teach you how to file income tax return etc end of year for 500e once off
If everything organize over the year it takes 20 min to file.

Need more help PM me or click Thanks button : )

They are a limited company, they need more than just a form 11. They need abridged accounts for the CRO , CT return and B1 filing

Immy · 17-04-2021 12:22pm

I’m an accountant, I work from home part time around my kids. All my clients are small companies like yourself. You can PM me if you want.

markmoto · 17-04-2021 12:27pm

Immy wrote: »

They are a limited company, they need more than just a form 11. They need abridged accounts for the CRO , CT return and B1 filing

I am sure he could find accountant who teach him all that for 500e once off
No rocket science or some scary forms (CT, B1) everything pretty simple once someone explains.

markmoto · 17-04-2021 12:30pm

Immy wrote: »

I’m an accountant, I work from home part time around my kids. All my clients are small companies like yourself. You can PM me if you want.

When you start new business and limited finances, lots of bills you have no choice but to learn your self. In other hand if everything nice and easy I am sure accountant would give me peace of mind & more time with the family.

Immy · 17-04-2021 5:17pm

markmoto wrote: »

I am sure he could find accountant who teach him all that for 500e once off
No rocket science or some scary forms (CT, B1) everything pretty simple once someone explains.

I’m sure he wouldn’t.

markmoto · 17-04-2021 8:56pm

Immy wrote: »

I’m sure he wouldn’t.

I have made today simple spreadsheet to calculate payroll figures for each week/month.
Anyone interested in free payroll calculator let me know.

antix80 · 17-04-2021 10:33pm

Op, are you the single employee? I'm assuming you are

Anyway. I don't work in practice but it sounds like you want an accountant who wants your once-a-year business. Which is a yearly tax return calc taking into account your company's income, your salary and B1 annual return. No idea of the cost but not 2500.

Tell him you used the other accountant to get set up but you'll be taking on vat yourself and don't intend to do a monthly payroll. (folks, that's allowed isn't it?) withdraw a monthly income similar to a salary and do your income tax at year end

markmoto · 17-04-2021 11:11pm

antix80 wrote: »

intend to do a monthly payroll. (folks, that's allowed isn't it?) withdraw a monthly income similar to a salary and do your income tax at year end

Correct as company director you can assign weekly/monthly salary to your self.

davindub · 18-04-2021 12:01am

antix80 wrote: »

Op, are you the single employee? I'm assuming you are

Anyway. I don't work in practice but it sounds like you want an accountant who wants your once-a-year business. Which is a yearly tax return calc taking into account your company's income, your salary and B1 annual return. No idea of the cost but not 2500.

Tell him you used the other accountant to get set up but you'll be taking on vat yourself and don't intend to do a monthly payroll. (folks, that's allowed isn't it?) withdraw a monthly income similar to a salary and do your income tax at year end

You can't withdraw a salary without making the correct deductions/ returns anymore (paye modernisation has tightened up the scrutiny)

The directors loan account rules are also subject to restrictions, they apply at any point during the year.

Op talk to your own accountant if you want to take on the VAT yourself & get other quotes, but be aware the consequences of non compliance are aolied to the directors, pick the firm you use carefully.

davindub · 18-04-2021 12:05am

markmoto wrote: »

Correct as company director you can assign weekly/monthly salary to your self.

You can but make the correct returns and deductions. I think I know the answer to this already, but have you factored in the RPN information on your calculator?

markmoto · 18-04-2021 12:12am

davindub wrote: »

You can't withdraw a salary without making the correct deductions/ returns anymore (paye modernisation has tightened up the scrutiny)

As director you pay your self salary, running payroll each week/ month.
PRSI Class S

davindub wrote: »

Op talk to your own accountant if you want to take on the VAT yourself & get other quotes, but be aware the consequences of non compliance are aolied to the directors, pick the firm you use carefully.

Why would you have to scare people off with all this stuff.
Perhaps helping and showing some knowledge give them more confidence before they hire you.

markmoto · 18-04-2021 12:17am

davindub wrote: »

You can but make the correct returns and deductions. I think I know the answer to this already, but have you factored in the RPN information on your calculator?

If you read previous post I suggest using simplepay online payroll software.
With automatic payroll submission and RPN retrieval.

for 1 employer 50e yearly more empl. less to pay.

In relation to spreadsheet, you have to enter RPN info manually and submit payroll via ROS website.

antix80 · 18-04-2021 12:18am

davindub wrote: »

You can't withdraw a salary without making the correct deductions/ returns anymore (paye modernisation has tightened up the scrutiny).

Ah, that's what I was asking. I guess it complicates things somewhat for payroll .. While op's circumstances likely won't change, government can easy monkey with tax rates throughout the year. An even if op can do own payroll, the accountant still needs to pull everything together at year end. So likely op will be paying for payroll.

I'd say to the op, just work with your accountant.

markmoto you remind me of an IT project manager I work with. Everything's so simple, everything can be done on a spreadsheet. I dont trust project managers to find solutions

Sharpyshoot · 18-04-2021 12:18am

Op can you take some payment by Johnny cash to retune your business?

markmoto · 18-04-2021 12:20am

antix80 wrote: »

markmoto you remind me of an IT project manager I work with. Everything's so simple, everything can be done on a spreadsheet. I dont trust project managers to find solutions

I am giving hope

Cilldara_2000 · 18-04-2021 12:27am

It would be an incredibly foolish accountant who would attempt to "teach" someone to do their own returns. I wonder what sort of fall back on their PII there'd be after the inevitable mistake and revenue audit?

€2500 doesn't sound all that bad for accounts, abridged accounts, B1, form 11, monthly payroll, and VAT. You get what you pay for.

Ofc it's your business and you could take the chance of doing it yourself based on some spreadsheet that some randomer on the internet gave you. Sort of thing often ends up being an expensive mistake when the end of year accountant has to decipher poor books & records and correct mistakes and ends taking more time and money to do so.

markmoto · 18-04-2021 12:39am

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Ofc it's your business and you could take the chance of doing it yourself based on some spreadsheet that some randomer on the internet gave you. Sort of thing often ends up being an expensive mistake when the end of year accountant has to decipher poor books & records and correct mistakes and ends taking more time and money to do so.

OP they are not willing to help that's for sure

davindub · 18-04-2021 1:48am

markmoto wrote: »

As director you pay your self salary, running payroll each week/ month.
PRSI Class S

Why would you have to scare people off with all this stuff.
Perhaps helping and showing some knowledge give them more confidence before they hire you.

Mark, I don't think anyone doubted that a director can pay themselves salary after making the required deductions and returns.

Look nice that you are taking a interest but you will end up doing more harm than good if you are not 100% correct for the circumstances. In this regard, you are acting like a fool.

markmoto · 18-04-2021 1:57am

davindub wrote: »

Mark, I don't think anyone doubted that a director can pay themselves salary after making the required deductions and returns.

Look nice that you are taking a interest but you will end up doing more harm than good if you are not 100% correct for the circumstances. In this regard, you are acting like a fool.

If people make enough money no doubt they would hire accountant full time.
When asking for help because they cant afford to pay 2k per year on a smallish business you should help instead of scaring them off.

markmoto · 18-04-2021 2:10am

Cheap accountant? Give me a break, The whole accounting industry involved in rip off behavior.
Good thing to have professional on board however unnecessary greediness, profit purpose force startups and small business to take that into their own hands.

Yyhhuuu · 18-04-2021 2:25am

A cheap accountant? Are you for real?

They are more expensive than Solicitors.

It's about time both professions were tackled for their charging practices.

markmoto · 18-04-2021 2:26am

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

A cheap accountant? Are you for real?

They are more expensive than Solicitors.

It's about time both professions were tackled for their charging practices.

Totally agree !

Cheap accountant

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