Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

2019 IT - already paid but cannot file tax return. What should I do?

Options
  • 22-05-2019 5:07pm
    #1
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭


    Folks,

    I'm here for asking your help with 2019 IT.

    I've sold a property and asked a Chartered Accountant to file 2018 and 2019 taxes on my behalf. I was a non-resident landlord so I would have preferred to close all my Irish-related business this year that's why I wanted to pay 2019 taxes as well.

    He assured me that there was no problem in filing taxes for 2019 now so I went ahead and got 2018 and 2019 IT debited in one go the other day.

    Today the accountant gets back to me saying that after multiple e-mail exchange with Revenue they confirmed that he cannot file taxes on my behalf till Jan, 2020.

    What should I do now? I already paid taxes and the accountant. I just would like to avoid issues in the future. What documentation should I request?

    Honestly I don't know what I am supposed to expect back from Revenue and Accountant so some guidance is really appreciated!

    Thank you!


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Stratvs
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭Stratvs


    You can file and pay 2018 now. Which you have done.

    You can file a payment for 2019 now. That is usually either 100% of the previous year (in this case 2018) or 90% of the ultimate 2019 liability (if you can reasonably estimate that) I'm guessing that your accountant got you to pay a 2019 amount based on one of those.

    You can't file the tax return for 2019 until 2020. The system just cannot take it. Who knows what income or claims someone might have in the remainder of the year. At that point the balance (if any) of the 2019 liability after deducting your payment on account will be known and can be paid/refunded. If your payment for 2019 has been worked out to be the likely actual liability for 2019 then the return when filed in early 2020 will show a nil balance. So it's not a big issue having to file that then, everything else is done.


  • Options
    #3
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    Stratvs wrote: »
    You can file and pay 2018 now. Which you have done.

    You can file a payment for 2019 now. That is usually either 100% of the previous year (in this case 2018) or 90% of the ultimate 2019 liability (if you can reasonably estimate that) I'm guessing that your accountant got you to pay a 2019 amount based on one of those.

    You can't file the tax return for 2019 until 2020. The system just cannot take it. Who knows what income or claims someone might have in the remainder of the year. At that point the balance (if any) of the 2019 liability after deducting your payment on account will be known and can be paid/refunded. If your payment for 2019 has been worked out to be the likely actual liability for 2019 then the return when filed in early 2020 will show a nil balance. So it's not a big issue having to file that then, everything else is done.

    Thank you for the clear explanation that I unfortunately didn't get from my accountant. Now it makes sense to me. Thanks again!


  • Options
    #4
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    Stratvs wrote: »
    You can file and pay 2018 now. Which you have done.

    You can file a payment for 2019 now. That is usually either 100% of the previous year (in this case 2018) or 90% of the ultimate 2019 liability (if you can reasonably estimate that) I'm guessing that your accountant got you to pay a 2019 amount based on one of those.

    You can't file the tax return for 2019 until 2020. The system just cannot take it. Who knows what income or claims someone might have in the remainder of the year. At that point the balance (if any) of the 2019 liability after deducting your payment on account will be known and can be paid/refunded. If your payment for 2019 has been worked out to be the likely actual liability for 2019 then the return when filed in early 2020 will show a nil balance. So it's not a big issue having to file that then, everything else is done.

    Can I borrow your time for another couple of questions?

    - property sale was subject to CGT but the actual amount due is zero due to expenses, etc. - should I file something by Dec, 15th? What kind of proof should I expect back from the accountant in that regard?

    - can tax payment be made from any EU current account? I'd like to close my Irish current account ASAP.

    Thank you!
    -


  • Options
    #5
    Stratvs
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭Stratvs


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    Can I borrow your time for another couple of questions?

    - property sale was subject to CGT but the actual amount due is zero due to expenses, etc. - should I file something by Dec, 15th? What kind of proof should I expect back from the accountant in that regard?

    - can tax payment be made from any EU current account? I'd like to close my Irish current account ASAP.

    Thank you!
    -

    CGT due on disposals 01/01/19 to 30/11/19 is due on/before 15/12/19. If as you say there is no liability to pay then there is no payslip to file. While there is no liability the actual transaction details must be filed on the on the 2019 Tax Return which your accountant will presumably be doing and Revenue will issue an assessment letter (headed "Self-assessment Ch4 of Part 41A TCA 1997") showing the nil liability as declared on the tax return.

    When your accountant sends you the 2019 tax return for approval/signature all the income tax and CGT entries will be on that.

    Regarding payment, you can change ROS Debit Instruction (RDI) payments to any SEPA area account all you need is the name on the account, the IBAN and the BIC. They need to be changed from the Irish one in ROS and you can do that yourself if you have ROS access or your accountant can do it and send you a copy of the changed RDI.


  • Options
    #6
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    Stratvs wrote: »
    CGT due on disposals 01/01/19 to 30/11/19 is due on/before 15/12/19. If as you say there is no liability to pay then there is no payslip to file. While there is no liability the actual transaction details must be filed on the on the 2019 Tax Return which your accountant will presumably be doing and Revenue will issue an assessment letter (headed "Self-assessment Ch4 of Part 41A TCA 1997") showing the nil liability as declared on the tax return.

    When your accountant sends you the 2019 tax return for approval/signature all the income tax and CGT entries will be on that.

    Regarding payment, you can change ROS Debit Instruction (RDI) payments to any SEPA area account all you need is the name on the account, the IBAN and the BIC. They need to be changed from the Irish one in ROS and you can do that yourself if you have ROS access or your accountant can do it and send you a copy of the changed RDI.

    Very clear, thanks a million again.

    The only thing I need to understand now is if the solicitor can release the proceeding of the sale that he is keeping as an indemnity while awaiting for the Tax Clearance Certificate to be issued by Revenue Office. I already got the 2018 one, not sure if he needs the 2019 as well?

    I hope I don't have to wait for 2020 to get the funds released!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Stratvs
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭Stratvs


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    Very clear, thanks a million again.

    The only thing I need to understand now is if the solicitor can release the proceeding of the sale that he is keeping as an indemnity while awaiting for the Tax Clearance Certificate to be issued by Revenue Office. I already got the 2018 one, not sure if he needs the 2019 as well?

    I hope I don't have to wait for 2020 to get the funds released!

    You should check with your accountant & solicitor on where this currently stands. As a non-resident vendor the solicitor can have what's called "secondary liability" to Revenue for CGT. While as you say there isn't a liability, the solicitor will only accept Revenue's confirmation not yours or your accountants.

    Item 11 here
    https://www.lawsociety.ie/Solicitors/Practising/Practice-Notes/Capital-gains-tax-clearance-certificates/.XOZH8hZKjX5


  • Options
    #8
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    Hello Folks,

    sorry to bring up this old thread but I'd like to have your opinion on this matter.

    Regarding CGT the accountant mentioned in one e-mail: "However at this stage we can confirm based on preliminary calculations there will be no Irish CGT due on the sale proceeds on the property"

    I've asked him 3 times by e-mail and 1 time over the phone to provide a breakdown showing zero CGT due but he never replied to my requests and now that the Dec, 15th deadline is approaching I am getting a bit nervous about it as I don't want to have any issues later on.

    My question is: is he supposed to send me on the CGT calculation? Any other suggestions?

    Thanks a million for your help!


  • Options
    #9
    Stratvs
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭Stratvs


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    Hello Folks,

    sorry to bring up this old thread but I'd like to have your opinion on this matter.

    Regarding CGT the accountant mentioned in one e-mail: "However at this stage we can confirm based on preliminary calculations there will be no Irish CGT due on the sale proceeds on the property"

    I've asked him 3 times by e-mail and 1 time over the phone to provide a breakdown showing zero CGT due but he never replied to my requests and now that the Dec, 15th deadline is approaching I am getting a bit nervous about it as I don't want to have any issues later on.

    My question is: is he supposed to send me on the CGT calculation? Any other suggestions?

    Thanks a million for your help!

    Has anything happened that might change their preliminary calculation?
    If there is no CGT due then there is nothing to file for 15/12/19. All that is required is the IT/CGT return for 2019 after 31/12/19 as referred to earlier in thread.

    I'd normally give the client a copy of the CGT calculation and see no reason not to, especially if it has been requested multiple times.


  • Options
    #10
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    Stratvs wrote: »
    Has anything happened that might change their preliminary calculation?
    If there is no CGT due then there is nothing to file for 15/12/19. All that is required is the IT/CGT return for 2019 after 31/12/19 as referred to earlier in thread.

    I'd normally give the client a copy of the CGT calculation and see no reason not to, especially if it has been requested multiple times.

    Thanks Stratvs, no nothing has changed since I've opened this thread.

    I don't see why he is not sharing it with me as he already did the calculation (so no additional work for him) and the fact that he used the words 'preliminary calculations' it feels like he want't to be safe from any issues so I'd like to have the final one.


  • Options
    #11
    pasquale83
    Registered Users Posts: 477 ✭✭pasquale83


    Stratvs wrote: »
    Has anything happened that might change their preliminary calculation?
    If there is no CGT due then there is nothing to file for 15/12/19. All that is required is the IT/CGT return for 2019 after 31/12/19 as referred to earlier in thread.

    I'd normally give the client a copy of the CGT calculation and see no reason not to, especially if it has been requested multiple times.

    Also, is he liable in case any issues with CGT?

    At the end he sent me that statement, I've asked him 4 times to see the calculation and if he doesn't want to provide it what can I do? I cannot force him to but at least I'd like to be covered in case Revenue finds something wrong with my 2019 IT next year...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    barneystinson
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    Also, is he liable in case any issues with CGT?

    At the end he sent me that statement, I've asked him 4 times to see the calculation and if he doesn't want to provide it what can I do? I cannot force him to but at least I'd like to be covered in case Revenue finds something wrong with my 2019 IT next year...

    Well he’s not liable for your tax. Your tax liability is yours alone.

    You might have an actionable case for damages against him if you were to suffer interest and penalties because of negligence / incompetence on his part. But you’d have to spend more time and money than it’d be worth, to pursue that (unless the interest / penalties were quite substantial).


  • Options
    #13
    Stratvs
    Registered Users Posts: 958 ✭✭✭Stratvs


    pasquale83 wrote: »
    Also, is he liable in case any issues with CGT?

    At the end he sent me that statement, I've asked him 4 times to see the calculation and if he doesn't want to provide it what can I do? I cannot force him to but at least I'd like to be covered in case Revenue finds something wrong with my 2019 IT next year...

    As per below

    barneystinson wrote: »
    Well he’s not liable for your tax. Your tax liability is yours alone.

    You might have an actionable case for damages against him if you were to suffer interest and penalties because of negligence / incompetence on his part. But you’d have to spend more time and money than it’d be worth, to pursue that (unless the interest / penalties were quite substantial).


Advertisement