Woman Loses Job for Holding Gender Critical Opinions.

One eyed Jack · 09-05-2019 12:12pm

klaaaz wrote: »

The 2,617 scientists that you dismissed, glad you remember the scientific experts. Yes, the WPath do recognise a person can change sex just like our own HSE do.

I didn’t dismiss them at all. I dismissed what you claimed they were saying, which they weren’t, and I dismissed your link to a website which is years out of date which only acts as a placeholder for information they have copied and pasted from the NHS advisory body in the UK, information which is nullified by their own disclaimer.

You’re perfectly aware of course that the neither the HSE nor any of the authorities you link to will back up your claim, yet the fact you continue to make the claim is one thing, the fact that you try and claim any legitimate authority agrees with your claim is quite something else entirely!

You claim a fringe element are poisoning people’s minds as though that isn’t exactly what you’re attempting to do, and you’re getting nowhere with it because people aren’t as gullible for one thing as you need them to be, and secondly they aren’t bending to your will as easily as you wish you could make them using instruments of the law to do so. Current Irish legislation places an obligation on the State and on certain organisations providing their services to the public to recognise your preferred gender. It doesn’t place any obligation on individuals in their private capacity to recognise your preferred gender, which has nothing to do with your sex.

Zorya · 09-05-2019 12:16pm

rgodard80a wrote: »

It makes you rational and an independent thinker who questions changes being pushed into our society by pressure groups and activists who use social media to attack any discenting voices.

I'm regularly called unpleasant things here or accused of being nasty - like poisoning minds, for example. Or saying things that are ugly, intolerable, prejudiced. Thankfully I'm anonymous, but it must be awful for women in the public eye who speak up. Always have been an independent thinker, but I'm not brave like those who are publicly speaking out. I've seen some of the attacks on people online in other places and I would not be able for that kind of thing - truly poisonous and horrible. People's jobs at stake, people deplatformed from public spoeaking, people refused funding, people having to get protection, people who feel like they cannot leave their homes, people forced to leave citizen media or social platforms where they have been advertising their work for example, constant death and rape threats, doxxing, the ugliest imaginable things hurled about all the time.
And they/we are told in response to stay quiet and ''be nice''....

klaaaz · 09-05-2019 12:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A question for you klaaaz, as a member of the LGBT community, what in your mind constitutes a woman? Is the feeling that you are a woman enough?

Nice jump to conclusions there, i'm a citizen of Ireland unlike some posters here who are doing their best to import controversies from abroad. You are asking the same question that was answered many times many pages ago.

eagle eye wrote: »

The majority of people think that a trans person is still the gender they were born.

Prove it. The vast majority of western countries including Ireland disagree with you.

How Soon Is Now · 09-05-2019 12:29pm

****ing stupid argument.

How about we go out and do a survey on the streets ffs :pac:

I doubt there's stats that claim as fact what people actually think on this subject ? Its more a case for common sense something that's seriously lacking here.

09-05-2019 12:31pm

klaaaz wrote:

Nice jump to conclusions there, i'm a citizen of Ireland unlike some posters here who are doing their best to import controversies from abroad. You are asking the same question that was answered many times many pages ago.

Well that post makes no sense. It's a logical conclusion. You post on the LGBT forum, you direct people to LGBT websites and helplines, if you aren't LGBT yourself, then you certainly appear to be an "ally" which makes you part of their community.

Or am I mistaken and in order to be part of the community you must yourself be LGBT?

Anyway, congratulations on your Irish citizenship but I'm sure it doesn't matter anyway. You could be Dutch if you believed it enough I assume.

I must have missed your explanation a couple of pages ago. Apologies. When I get a chance I will try to find it.

klaaaz · 09-05-2019 12:35pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn’t dismiss them at all. I dismissed what you claimed they were saying, which they weren’t, and I dismissed your link to a website which is years out of date which only acts as a placeholder for information they have copied and pasted from the NHS advisory body in the UK, information which is nullified by their own disclaimer.

You’re perfectly aware of course that the neither the HSE nor any of the authorities you link to will back up your claim, yet the fact you continue to make the claim is one thing, the fact that you try and claim any legitimate authority agrees with your claim is quite something else entirely!

We had this discussion before, the pathway for transgender people seeking treatment in Ireland has not changed in many years. Medical professionals(who you disagree with) from different fields are still required to treat transgender people, the website is correct in 2019 as it was in 2014.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You claim a fringe element are poisoning people’s minds as though that isn’t exactly what you’re attempting to do, and you’re getting nowhere with it because people aren’t as gullible for one thing as you need them to be, and secondly they aren’t bending to your will as easily as you wish you could make them using instruments of the law to do so. Current Irish legislation places an obligation on the State and on certain organisations providing their services to the public to recognise your preferred gender. It doesn’t place any obligation on individuals in their private capacity to recognise your preferred gender, which has nothing to do with your sex.

It ain't my fault if some posters are not open to opposing views and only want to discuss their own views and trying to import controversies from other countries. There was always recognition of a change of gender and sex before 2015, it was for transsexuals(people who changed sex) who had it very tough jumping through hoards of red tape.
What happened with legislation in 2015 in Ireland was to streamline the issue, it also included for the first time "self ID" recognition of gender which if I recall was not opposed by any group/organisation/political party.

rgodard80a · 09-05-2019 12:44pm

klaaaz wrote: »

The vast majority of western countries including Ireland disagree with you.

You've switched there, from "people" to "countries".

At a state level, it's just another checkbox on a government form and widening of
the definition of some laws.
As I mentioned before, it only need a quorum of something like 10,000 people for the state to "recognise" their religion. An "Jedi" is now a recognised religion in Ireland.

That's not the same as saying the people recognise it.
There was no referendum specifically on this issue.

eagle eye · 09-05-2019 12:50pm

klaaaz wrote:

Prove it. The vast majority of western countries including Ireland disagree with you.

I don't need to prove anything, I'm certain of it.
You go and prove that I'm wrong.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 09-05-2019 1:02pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well that post makes no sense. It's a logical conclusion. You post on the LGBT forum, you direct people to LGBT websites and helplines, if you aren't LGBT yourself, then you certainly appear to be an "ally" which makes you part of their community.

Or am I mistaken and in order to be part of the community you must yourself be LGBT?

Anyway, congratulations on your Irish citizenship but I'm sure it doesn't matter anyway. You could be Dutch if you believed it enough I assume.

I must have missed your explanation a couple of pages ago. Apologies. When I get a chance I will try to find it.

Don't bother, klaaz has never given an explanation. They just keep obsfucating, answering questions that weren't asked, putting words in people's mouths and answering questions with questions.

klaaaz · 09-05-2019 1:10pm

rgodard80a wrote: »

You've switched there, from "people" to "countries".

At a state level, it's just another checkbox on a government form and widening of
the definition of some laws.
As I mentioned before, it only need a quorum of something like 10,000 people for the state to "recognise" their religion. An "Jedi" is now a recognised religion in Ireland.

That's not the same as saying the people recognise it.
There was no referendum specifically on this issue.

In a democracy, people vote for political parties to pass laws. The Gender Recognition Act in Ireland was passed by our own elected parliament with not a single voice from a single political party opposing it. That is a thumping overwhelming majority in support, the same for other countries who have passed gender recognition into law.

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't need to prove anything, I'm certain of it.
You go and prove that I'm wrong.

See above reply.

rgodard80a · 09-05-2019 1:16pm

klaaaz wrote: »

In a democracy, people vote for political parties to pass laws. The Gender Recognition Act in Ireland was passed by our own elected parliament with not a single voice from a single political party opposing it. That is a thumping overwhelming majority in support, the same for other countries who have passed gender recognition into law.

So the "Water Services Act 2014" had the overwhelming majority in support too for the same strained reason ? Yeah, people love "Irish Water" :rolleyes:

klaaaz wrote: »

... not a single voice from a single political party opposing it.

See my previous post on pressure groups and activists using social media as a weapon.
It would be political suicide to oppose it.
Lack of public opposition doesn't mean implicit support.

suicide_circus · 09-05-2019 1:21pm

klaaaz wrote: »

You won't find the truth here with fringe elements poisoning people's minds, ask for the truth in the LGBT forum for example.

Stay klaaazy

klaaaz · 09-05-2019 1:24pm

rgodard80a wrote: »

So the "Water Services Act 2014" had the overwhelming majority in support too for the same strained reason ? Yeah, people love "Irish Water" :rolleyes:

See my previous post on pressure groups and activists using social media as a weapon.
It would be political suicide to oppose it.
Lack of public opposition doesn't mean implicit support.

There were political parties in the Dail at the time who opposed that Water act. Lots of lobby and protest groups too as well with the massive street protests.

Not a single protest was held against the Gender Recognition Act in 2015 in Ireland from any political party, lobby groups, unions, special interest groups, legal profession, medical profession you name it, no-one voiced protest!

And there is still no protest against the Irish Gender Recognition Act 4 years later in 2019 unless you and your pals here in AH intend of setting up a protest activist group?

eagle eye · 09-05-2019 1:34pm

klaaaz wrote:

In a democracy, people vote for political parties to pass laws. The Gender Recognition Act in Ireland was passed by our own elected parliament with not a single voice from a single political party opposing it. That is a thumping overwhelming majority in support, the same for other countries who have passed gender recognition into law.

You are not talking about ordinary people on the street here. You are talking about bureaucrats who are passing laws because they are afraid of their lives of being designated as bigots or even worse titles.
Most regular people don't agree that trans persons are a different gender to what they were born.

One eyed Jack · 09-05-2019 1:35pm

klaaaz wrote: »

We had this discussion before, the pathway for transgender people seeking treatment in Ireland has not changed in many years. Medical professionals(who you disagree with) from different fields are still required to treat transgender people, the website is correct in 2019 as it was in 2014.

Your continued obfuscation is patently obvious. I don’t disagree with some of the medical professionals in this area. Medical professionals who specialise in transgender healthcare disagree among themselves as to what they believe is the most effective treatment for people who are experiencing gender dysphoria.

The issues (because contrary to your beliefs there isn’t just the one “transgender issue) have become infinitely more complicated in the intervening years between 2014 and 2019 due to the rising numbers of people presenting with gender dysphoria, the rising numbers of people who are unsatisfied following treatments which they have undergone to treat gender dysphoria, the rising numbers of people who are detransitioning, and the rising numbers of people who identify themselves as transgender though they do not experience gender dysphoria.

klaaaz wrote: »

It ain't my fault if some posters are not open to opposing views and only want to discuss their own views and trying to import controversies from other countries. There was always recognition of a change of gender and sex before 2015, it was for transsexuals(people who changed sex) who had it very tough jumping through hoards of red tape.
What happened with legislation in 2015 in Ireland was to streamline the issue, it also included for the first time "self ID" recognition of gender which if I recall was not opposed by any group/organisation/political party.

I’m not holding you responsible for anyone else’s views but your own. I think the fact you’re still here shows at least that you are open to opposing views, but you appear to want those opposing views to conform to your beliefs. The conversation hasn’t moved an inch thanks to your obfuscation and people’s resistance to your obfuscation.

Nobody is “importing controversies from other countries”, we’re communicating on a medium which has no geographic boundaries, and people’s beliefs are influenced by their experiences or lack thereof. When people witness what people who hold a fringe political view are capable of, they perceive it to be what’s coming down the line for them, and they’re acting now to ensure it doesn’t gain a foothold in this jurisdiction.

Even your attempted obfuscation above is just more of the same - you know that before the Gender Recognition Act was recognised in Irish law, there was no legal recognition in Irish law of people who wished to present themselves as their preferred gender. The new legislation didn’t streamline “the issue” (there you go again trying to maintain that there is one single issue where there are many issues), it only addresses one single issue - legal recognition for people who are transgender. That is all.

It does nothing to address issues such as young people experiencing gender dysphoria.
It does nothing to address issues such as the very specific healthcare concerns of both females who are experiencing gender dysphoria, and males who are experiencing gender dysphoria.
It does nothing to address the concerns of people who identify themselves as transgender who do not experience gender dysphoria.
It does nothing to address the concerns of people who do not identify themselves within the binary gender paradigm.
It does nothing to address the concerns of people who are not transgender.

In short klaaaz, it was legislation that was snuck in through the back door in the hope that nobody would notice before it has time to bed down and Government could point to it existing for years if anyone raised any objections. There was no need for any controversy to be imported if everything was done on the quiet. It’s the sneakiness of it people don’t like klaaaz, much like the sneaky language you’re using when nobody is able to take your beliefs seriously.

Claiming that science and medicine has your back? Things are moving at such a pace now klaaaz that even you are getting left behind :pac:

klaaaz · 09-05-2019 1:43pm

eagle eye wrote: »

You are not talking about ordinary people on the street here. You are talking about bureaucrats who are passing laws because they are afraid of their lives of being designated as bigots or even worse titles.
Most regular people don't agree that trans persons are a different gender to what they were born.

That's tin foil hat stuff just like the science deniers. The scientists and the medical professionals disagree with you not just the lawmakers, it's ok to admit you're wrong. If you want to live in a dictatorship and disregard our democracy and laws go ahead and live in one.

rgodard80a · 09-05-2019 1:44pm

klaaaz wrote: »

There were political parties in the Dail at the time who opposed that Water act. Lots of lobby and protest groups too as well with the massive street protests.

Yet still it passed.
So it didn't have the "overwhelming majority in support".

klaaaz wrote: »

Not a single protest was held against the Gender Recognition Act in 2015 in Ireland from any political party, lobby groups, unions, special interest groups, legal profession, medical profession you name it, no-one voiced protest!

Irish people just don't protest unless it hits them personally, typically money or health.
As I said, no political party opposed it, for fear of the backlash from activists and its just not a key issue for the vast majority of people, so the risk vs reward balance was very much skewed to apathy in the political parties.

Look at the number of acts that were enacted in 2015 : http://www.bailii.org/ie/legis/num_act/2015/

Do you think the public overwhelmingly supported the "Vehicle Clamping Act 2015" in the same year ?
http://www.bailii.org/ie/legis/num_act/2015/0013.html

You cannot be that naive to interpret no protests as "overwhelming support".

BattleCorp · 09-05-2019 1:49pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Prove it. The vast majority of western countries including Ireland disagree with you.

You are not in the real world if you think the majority of people think that someone biologically born a male can transition to become a biological female. I certainly don't.

The vast majority of people probably believe that people have the right to transition and live as the gender that they want, but they aren't going to deny basic biology and say that a transgender woman is a real woman, because biologically they are not.

Look at this thread for example. The vast majority here aren't on your side of the debate. Why do you think therefore that the rest of the world would be any different?

To simplify matters, most people here wouldn't think that the woman who tweeted 'suck my lady d1ck' is a real woman. That's the point I am talking about. Biologically, real women don't have d1cks. I don't mean that to be harsh, but biology is biology and you can't change it based on feelings.

She can live her life as a woman, I've no problem with that. But that doesn't make her a real woman.

klaaaz · 09-05-2019 2:09pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The issues (because contrary to your beliefs there isn’t just the one “transgender issue) have become infinitely more complicated in the intervening years between 2014 and 2019 due to the rising numbers of people presenting with gender dysphoria, the rising numbers of people who are unsatisfied following treatments which they have undergone to treat gender dysphoria, the rising numbers of people who are detransitioning, and the rising numbers of people who identify themselves as transgender though they do not experience gender dysphoria.

Disagree to the rising numbers of people who are detransitioning, there is no evidence of this.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m not holding you responsible for anyone else’s views but your own. I think the fact you’re still here shows at least that you are open to opposing views, but you appear to want those opposing views to conform to your beliefs. The conversation hasn’t moved an inch thanks to your obfuscation and people’s resistance to your obfuscation.

My views are based on facts in the real world, not AH opinions.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Nobody is “importing controversies from other countries”, we’re communicating on a medium which has no geographic boundaries, and people’s beliefs are influenced by their experiences or lack thereof. When people witness what people who hold a fringe political view are capable of, they perceive it to be what’s coming down the line for them, and they’re acting now to ensure it doesn’t gain a foothold in this jurisdiction.

Yes there is an attempt to import controversies from other countries, specifically the UK and USA. In AH, it is being constantly highlighted as an agenda by a tiny number of posters who tend to be fond of the twitterati with their "gender ideology" nonsense.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Even your attempted obfuscation above is just more of the same - you know that before the Gender Recognition Act was recognised in Irish law, there was no legal recognition in Irish law of people who wished to present themselves as their preferred gender. The new legislation didn’t streamline “the issue” (there you go again trying to maintain that there is one single issue where there are many issues), it only addresses one single issue - legal recognition for people who are transgender. That is all.

Transsexuals were able to change legal documents pre 2015 except their birth certs from which a case ended up in the courts. The 2015 Act did streamline the process for changing legal documents for transsexuals and also introduced for the first time self ID gender recognition.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It does nothing to address issues such as young people experiencing gender dysphoria.
It does nothing to address issues such as the very specific healthcare concerns of both females who are experiencing gender dysphoria, and males who are experiencing gender dysphoria.
It does nothing to address the concerns of people who identify themselves as transgender who do not experience gender dysphoria.
It does nothing to address the concerns of people who do not identify themselves within the binary gender paradigm.
It does nothing to address the concerns of people who are not transgender.

Yes, they need better healthcare. Long waiting lists are exacerbating the problem hence the recent protests by transgender people to the Health minister. Non-binary people indeed have been waiting a long time for better healthcare and legal recognition.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

In short klaaaz, it was legislation that was snuck in through the back door in the hope that nobody would notice before it has time to bed down and Government could point to it existing for years if anyone raised any objections. There was no need for any controversy to be imported if everything was done on the quiet. It’s the sneakiness of it people don’t like klaaaz, much like the sneaky language you’re using when nobody is able to take your beliefs seriously.

Claiming that science and medicine has your back? Things are moving at such a pace now klaaaz that even you are getting left behind :pac:

The legislation was not snuck through the back door, there was a public consultation for years. As certain people ignore public consultations in a democracy, they cannot give out afterwards claiming "they didn't know". The issue was all over the Irish media but those set of people tend to ignore news in Ireland and prefer news of a conspiracy agenda type from international sites like theblaze.com for example. And yes, the medical field and scientists who you don't like do have my back

eagle eye · 09-05-2019 2:17pm

klaaaz wrote:

That's tin foil hat stuff just like the science deniers. The scientists and the medical professionals disagree with you not just the lawmakers, it's ok to admit you're wrong. If you want to live in a dictatorship and disregard our democracy and laws go ahead and live in one.

This isn't about being wrong or right. We are talking about what people believe. The large majority of people believe that you remain the gender you are born.
A lot of people believe that people who want to change gender have psychological issues.

klaaaz · 09-05-2019 2:27pm

rgodard80a wrote: »

Yet still it passed.
So it didn't have the "overwhelming majority in support".

Irish people just don't protest unless it hits them personally, typically money or health.
As I said, no political party opposed it, for fear of the backlash from activists and its just not a key issue for the vast majority of people, so the risk vs reward balance was very much skewed to apathy in the political parties.

Look at the number of acts that were enacted in 2015 : http://www.bailii.org/ie/legis/num_act/2015/

Do you think the public overwhelmingly supported the "Vehicle Clamping Act 2015" in the same year ?
http://www.bailii.org/ie/legis/num_act/2015/0013.html

You cannot be that naive to interpret no protests as "overwhelming support".

Out of all this, you agree that the Gender Recognition Act(Ireland) does not hit people personally who are not transgender, progress!
There was no backlash in 2015, you're making that up. There were no objections from anyone, anywhere at the time.
It is not a key issue for most people yes so why is it suddenly a key issue for you and your fellow posters who oppose the Gender Recognition Act in Ireland?

eagle eye wrote:

This isn't about being wrong or right. We are talking about what people believe. The large majority of people believe that you remain the gender you are born.
A lot of people believe that people who want to change gender have psychological issues.

Where is your evidence for this? It's ok to say that you're spouting a groundless opinion

One eyed Jack · 09-05-2019 3:15pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Disagree to the rising numbers of people who are detransitioning, there is no evidence of this.

If a number goes above zero, then that number is rising. I have already given you evidence of the existence of people who have detransitioned, yet you still persist in claiming there is no evidence of this as though they don’t exist. That continued denial doesn’t sound familiar to you at all?

klaaaz wrote: »

My views are based on facts in the real world, not AH opinions.

If you’re claiming that a person can change their sex, then your views are not based upon facts in the real world. Your opinions are based upon a minority political ideology, which is why people are opposed to it. Your opinions aren’t based upon scientific evidence because the scientific evidence you’re claiming as proof that a person can change their sex just doesn’t exist! There is none! As it relates to gender, the concept of transgender relates specifically to Western understanding of a binary gender paradigm. In other parts of the world they have different understanding of gender which isn’t based upon a binary gender paradigm. The concept of gender is entirely a social construct, whereas humans as a sexually dimorphic species is inarguable scientific fact regardless of the society in which one lives.

klaaaz wrote: »

Yes there is an attempt to import controversies from other countries, specifically the UK and USA. In AH, it is being constantly highlighted as an agenda by a tiny number of posters who tend to be fond of the twitterati with their "gender ideology" nonsense.

These stories aren’t being imported, they’re happening in the real world. Where they’re happening is important because legislation, politics and social policies in other countries influences legislation, politics and social policies in this country. I’m not fond of twitter or anything else besides Boards and I’ve been aware of the existence of alternative explanations for the experiences of people in other cultures and societies since I was in primary school. This is nothing new, and certainly not controversial. It becomes controversial when people are experiencing the negative effects of having an opinion which doesn’t align with other people’s political and social agendas. Gender ideology isn’t an entirely inaccurate description of the phenomenon, I would suggest your own interpretation is in regard specifically to people’s sex, given that you are of the belief that people can change their sex.

klaaaz wrote: »

Transsexuals were able to change legal documents pre 2015 except their birth certs from which a case ended up in the courts. The 2015 Act did streamline the process for changing legal documents for transsexuals and also introduced for the first time self ID gender recognition.

More obfuscation in substituting the medical term transsexual for the social and political term transgender. The GRA 2015 only streamlined the process for persons wishing to be identified in law as their preferred gender. It did nothing to encourage the idea that person’s ability or capacity to change their sex. There are no references to a person’s sex in the act, just their gender and their preferred gender -

Gender Recognition Act 2015

klaaaz wrote: »

Yes, they need better healthcare. Long waiting lists are exacerbating the problem hence the recent protests by transgender people to the Health minister. Non-binary people indeed have been waiting a long time for better healthcare and legal recognition.

You rarely ever acknowledge this though. And this is what we should be talking about. It won’t be talked about though while you’re still attempting to convince anyone that it is possible for a person to change their sex from male to female or from female to male, and continue to refuse to acknowledge the existence of people for whom medical and surgical treatments are not effective. I’m struggling to give you the benefit of the doubt that it isn’t just insincere tokenism on your part with reference to people who have no wish to undergo medical and surgical treatments, while identifying themselves as transgender. I’ve witnessed you be dismissive of their experiences which you consider invalid already. I can understand why you do it, I do the same myself, I’m just not trying to be deceitful about it.

klaaaz wrote: »

The legislation was not snuck through the back door, there was a public consultation for years. As certain people ignore public consultations in a democracy, they cannot give out afterwards claiming "they didn't know". The issue was all over the Irish media but those set of people tend to ignore news in Ireland and prefer news of a conspiracy agenda type from international sites like theblaze.com for example. And yes, the medical field and scientists who you don't like do have my back

There was feckall public consultation about the legislation klaaaz, same as there’s feckall public consultation about the current proposals to review the current legislation. The thing is though that in a democracy people can still object to legislation which they become aware of, whether or not they were previously aware of it’s existence - that’s precisely how legislation is often changed and reviewed, and there’s been plenty of legislation changed and reviewed lately with very little in the way of public discourse. I don’t think there’s any conspiracy either btw, I just think people generally aren’t interested in politics, so lobby groups which people generally have never heard of, have the ears of politicians.

With regard to the idea of medical professionals and scientists that I don’t like? I don’t like their ideas. There’s a difference - I really couldn’t care less for them as people, I’m not interested in them to that degree. Their opinions regarding gender and sex and so forth are all I’m concerned with, and in that regard you’re quite right- I don’t like their opinions, because I think they’re not basing their opinions upon either science nor medicine, but they’re basing their opinions upon their political beliefs. They, much the same as yourself klaaaz, are doing a piss poor job of deflecting from the fact that people cannot change their sex, and medical and surgical treatments are not the appropriate treatment for everyone who identifies themselves as transgender.

eagle eye · 09-05-2019 4:12pm

klaaaz wrote:

Where is your evidence for this? It's ok to say that you're spouting a groundless opinion

You prove that I'm wrong.

hatrickpatrick · 09-05-2019 4:17pm

Is there any chance we could split this into two threads - one for discussing the issue of gender politics, and the other for discussing the issue of freedom of expression and how far that should go? I don't know about anyone else, but I view these as two very distinct issues. One can disagree with everything this woman said and still believe that people shouldn't be punished for airing their views, and indeed one can approve of people facing repercussions for airing their views while at the same time agreeing with everything this woman said. There are two equally important but very distinct societal issues raised by this particular case, at least in my view - one being the trend towards "wrongthink" and "thought crime", the other being the ongoing gender politics culture war. While the two issues regularly intertwine (and are, in several ways, fundamentally dependent on one another), they are still separate issues both worthy of serious discussion in society.

That's my view anyway.

BattleCorp · 09-05-2019 4:19pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That's my view anyway.

That's it. You're sacked. You can't air your view anymore. Bye.

Zorya · 09-05-2019 4:24pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Is there any chance we could split this into two threads - one for discussing the issue of gender politics, and the other for discussing the issue of freedom of expression and how far that should go? I don't know about anyone else, but I view these as two very distinct issues. One can disagree with everything this woman said and still believe that people shouldn't be punished for airing their views, and indeed one can approve of people facing repercussions for airing their views while at the same time agreeing with everything this woman said. There are two equally important but very distinct societal issues raised by this particular case, at least in my view - one being the trend towards "wrongthink" and "thought crime", the other being the ongoing gender politics culture war. While the two issues regularly intertwine (and are, in several ways, fundamentally dependent on one another), they are still separate issues both worthy of serious discussion in society.

That's my view anyway.

I think they are specifically intertwined.

hcf500 · 09-05-2019 4:29pm

Their needs to be spaces set aside in politics for trans and gender non conforming persons. Their will never be a trans td in Ireland otherwise! They are at such a disadvantage. Just look at some of the comments on this tread. Proves it really!

How Soon Is Now · 09-05-2019 4:30pm

Pitty we couldnt have one thread for all the transsexual gender related issues in here.

We get a lot of threads posted around this subject that start one way then end pretty much how this thread is now.

xckjoo · 09-05-2019 4:36pm

hcf500 wrote: »

Their needs to be spaces set aside in politics for trans and gender non conforming persons. Their will never be a trans td in Ireland otherwise! They are at such a disadvantage. Just look at some of the comments on this tread. Proves it really!

Anecdotal, but the Students Unions around the country and USI in general seem to have a disproportionate number of LGBT representatives. It'll be interesting to see how many transition into mainstream politics.

Zorya · 09-05-2019 4:39pm

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Pitty we couldnt have one thread for all the transsexual gender related issues in here.

We get a lot of threads posted around this subject that start one way then end pretty much how this thread is now.

I don't see anything particularly wrong with it, to be honest. People being irritated things don't go their way (on either side)is not a big deal. No matter what kind of transgender politics thread there could be there will always likely be drift and edgy remarks, passive aggressiveness, smart jibes, calls to shut it down, people who simply give their opinion from either side. That's life. I think the very context of a professional being disciplined or let go for public expression of a political opinion based on biology gives the subject solid context.

Woman Loses Job for Holding Gender Critical Opinions.

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