Should Dublin Football be split?

blanch152 · 25-06-2018 9:54am

DONTMATTER wrote: »

I was discussing Games Development funding, Dublin have got millions upon millions more than anyone else. Did you look at the video True Gael just posted. The underage system in Dublin is a hugely financed machine. It's led to 52 titles in the past 13 years.
I posted a table that showed what other counties received in Games Development funding.
County grounds or centres of excellence aren't included in any of this. If it was Dublin would be even further ahead!

Of course you are only discussing Games Development Funding.

Neither you nor TrueGael want to discuss the way that Kerry have been funded to produce elite minor teams and feed up into their senior team while ignoring the average kid around the county.

Four minor All-Irelands in a row is the biggest sign of financial doping. 3-22 to 0-1 against Waterford in an U-20 match.

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 10:00am

blanch152 wrote: »

Of course you are only discussing Games Development Funding.

Neither you nor TrueGael want to discuss the way that Kerry have been funded to produce elite minor teams and feed up into their senior team while ignoring the average kid around the county.

Four minor All-Irelands in a row is the biggest sign of financial doping. 3-22 to 0-1 against Waterford in an U-20 match.

Oh you must of missed True Gaels youtube link, here ya go:

https://youtu.be/Z8fVgRDrlfA?t=4159

Powerhouse · 25-06-2018 10:06am

DONTMATTER wrote: »

I caught you out trying to pull a fast one. :D The Leinster Final between Westmeath and Laois had an attendance of over 56,000, the Saturday evening replay was 38,000. The Leinster final yesterday had an attendance of 41,000.
The claim was made that Dublin was financing the Leinster championship.

There is no fast one being pulled. 38,300 attended the 2004 Leinster football final replay which did not involve Dublin. That's a fact. That's an incontrovertible truth which can be verified. How is that a "fast one"?

Even taking the drawn 2004 final attendance. It was lowish at the time and it took until 2010 for another Leinster final attendance to be as low. No prizes for guessing which county was not involved that year.

By contrast, the next three Leinster finals involved Dublin against Laois, Wexford and Offaly and all attracted 80k+ Again, no "fast one" - just the plain facts.

It is a simple reality that a successful Dublin team brings bigger attendances to Croke Park than any other county. That might seem unfair, undesirable, unequal or whatever, but it is also undeniable. Even at a time when there might be falling attendances this probably remains true as well which you have demonstrated yourself by pointing out that the attendances yesterday outstripped a peak Celtic Tiger attendance (2004 final replay) when Dublin were not playing.

It might also be pointed out that Dublin and Tyrone pulled a full house to Croke Park for the opening National League game in 2007 and Dublin and Kerry pulled a full house to Croke Park for last year's League final. No other pairing could have done those and you see the common factor easily enough.

Of all the accusations you have made against Dublin challenging the idea that they more than pull their weight with regard to attendance is the oddest as the evidence could not be clearer. No need for any "fast ones". I could not be on more solid ground.

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 10:12am

Powerhouse wrote: »

There is no fast one being pulled. 38,300 attended the 2004 Leinster football final replay which did not involve Dublin. That's a fact. That's an incontrovertible truth which can be verified. How is that a "fast one"?

Even taking the drawn 2004 final attendance. It was lowish at the time and it took until 2010 for another Leinster final attendance to be as low. No prizes for guessing which county was not involved that year.

By contrast, the next three Leinster finals involved Dublin against Laois, Wexford and Offaly and all attracted 80k+ Again, no "fast one" - just the plain facts.

It is a simple reality that a successful Dublin team brings bigger attendances to Croke Park than any other county. That might seem unfair, undesirable, unequal or whatever, but it is also undeniable. Even at a time when there might be falling attendances this probably remains true as well which you have demonstrated yourself by pointing out that the attendances yesterday outstripped a peak Celtic Tiger attendance (2004 final replay) when Dublin were not playing.

It might also be pointed out that Dublin and Tyrone pulled a full house to Croke Park for the opening National League game in 2007 and Dublin and Kerry pulled a full house to Croke Park for last year's League final. No other pairing could have done those and you see the common factor easily enough.

Of all the accusations you have made against Dublin challenging the idea that they more than pull their weight with regard to attendance is the oddest as the evidence could not be clearer. No need for any "fast ones". I could not be on more solid ground.

You were hoping no one would know that you were talking about the replay. Ie you were pulling a fast one.

The rest of the post is all great except for the fact that no one claimed that Dublin don't bring big crowds! I don't know where you're getting that from. People have said that crowds are falling.

Powerhouse · 25-06-2018 10:37am

DONTMATTER wrote: »

You were hoping no one would know that you were talking about the replay. Ie you were pulling a fast one.

.

I don’t get the notion of a “fast one”. These figures are in the public domain.I was more than happy to draw significant attention to the drawn game and the replay in my subsequent reply. Both were low attendances by the standards of the time but the 38,000 one was especially notable as a spectacularly low attendance for the time. Why should I not draw attention to that?

Powerhouse · 25-06-2018 10:43am

DONTMATTER wrote: »

The rest of the post is all great except for the fact that no one claimed that Dublin don't bring big crowds! I don't know where you're getting that from. .

I’m getting it from your comment yesterday that yesterday’s attendance was “tiny”. Dublin bring big crowds and bring even bigger relative attendances. As Colm O’Rourke said they are bankrolling the coaching in the rest of Leinster who appear to have little enough interest.

Lord knows what will happen these counties when a tiered championship comes in and people stop even discussing the problems of these counties as they will be out of sight and out of mind.

TrueGael · 25-06-2018 10:45am

blanch152 wrote: »

Of course you are only discussing Games Development Funding.

Neither you nor TrueGael want to discuss the way that Kerry have been funded to produce elite minor teams and feed up into their senior team while ignoring the average kid around the county.

Four minor All-Irelands in a row is the biggest sign of financial doping. 3-22 to 0-1 against Waterford in an U-20 match.

I exposed your lies last night with the 2 videos which lays out the facts for all to see

When Kerry played Waterford and the others in Munster in Hurling from Underage all the way up to Senior there were far far heavier beatings but I guess you couldnt give a fk about that?

Kerry usually receive 40k from Croke Park and not a million and a half so we are winning organically and from natural talent and not draining national resources from those who desperately need them

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 10:53am

Ok, time to look at this from another angle. How is the financial doping of Dublin affecting other counties?

You hear a lot about the standard of the Leinster football championship and how bad it is. It's true that the standard hasn't been that strong but with Dublin handing out hammerings it has made standards drop even further. Players have dropped away and asked what the point is. What's the point of training all year, sacrificing so much just to enter a competition where one county has all the advantages including being bankrolled by the GAA?
These counties are demoralised, you seen it with Paddy O'Rourke saying it, Longford have had numerous players drop away, Westmeath with over 10 I think. Can you blame them?
In hurling, for years counties like Antrim, Laois, Carlow, Westmeath, Kerry were crying out for investment but their requests were rejected time after time until they were given some scrapes to divide amongst them. There's no reason why they couldn't have been at Dublin's level now. Who could be against having more teams competitive? Funding makes teams more competitive, it's been proven.

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 10:56am

Powerhouse wrote: »

I don’t get the notion of a “fast one”. These figures are in the public domain.I was more than happy to draw significant attention to the drawn game and the replay in my subsequent reply. Both were low attendances by the standards of the time but the 38,000 one was especially notable as a spectacularly low attendance for the time. Why should I not draw attention to that?

When I caught you out you mentioned the drawn game, you conveniently forgot to mention the 38,000 attendance was for a replay in your first post.
You're who'll post was about something that no one's being saying anyway so it was pretty pointless.

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 10:59am

Powerhouse wrote: »

I’m getting it from your comment yesterday that yesterday’s attendance was “tiny”. Dublin bring big crowds and bring even bigger relative attendances. As Colm O’Rourke said they are bankrolling the coaching in the rest of Leinster who appear to have little enough interest.

Lord knows what will happen these counties when a tiered championship comes in and people stop even discussing the problems of these counties as they will be out of sight and out of mind.

Well wasn't yesterdays crowd tiny? As you said, Dublin games have been getting double that amount so crowds have been dropping.

Other Leinster counties may appear to lack interest but that's because of the bankrolling of Dublin's coaching, not the other way round.
A tiered championship will kill Gaelic football in many counties, we can't let this happen.

Powerhouse · 25-06-2018 11:04am

DONTMATTER wrote: »

When I caught you out you mentioned the drawn game, you conveniently forgot to mention the 38,000 attendance was for a replay in your first post.
You're who'll post was about something that no one's being saying anyway so it was pretty pointless.

If it didn’t matter you wouldn’t have replied several times. You are now declaring attendances to not matter because they are verifiable rather than purely arguable. Onto a different angle now I presume?

Powerhouse · 25-06-2018 11:07am

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Well wasn't yesterdays crowd tiny? .

It was bigger than the 2004 final replay.

But you said that nobody said Dublin don’t bring big crowds. Now you are saying the crowd was “tiny”. Which is it?

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 11:13am

Powerhouse wrote: »

If it didn’t matter you wouldn’t have replied several times. You are now declaring attendances to not matter because they are verifiable rather than purely arguable. Onto a different angle now I presume?

What are you talking about? I corrected your attempt to pull a fast one and showed that yesterdays attendance proved that crowds were falling, you've gone on to back this up for some reason and then you were were arguing a point that no one had made!

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 11:14am

Powerhouse wrote: »

It was bigger than the 2004 final replay.

But you said that nobody said Dublin don’t bring big crowds. Now you are saying the crowd was “tiny”. Which is it?

But not the drawn game!

I said that crowds were falling, you've gone to the trouble of proving my point! 80,000 + were attending games, yesterday there was 41,000, that is tiny!

Powerhouse · 25-06-2018 11:23am

DONTMATTER wrote: »

But not the drawn game!

I said that crowds were falling, you've gone to the trouble of proving my point! 80,000 + were attending games, yesterday there was 41,000, that is tiny!

For something that doesn’t matter you are keeping it going.

As mentioned earlier figures involving Laois-Westmeath in 2004 (both days) were low figures for the time. You seem desperate to avoid the 2004 replay but 38k was smaller than yesterday. Yesterday’s figure compares reasonably well with say the 2010 final (48k) involving Meath and Louth who hadn’t been in a final for 50 years. It was the biggest crowd of any provincial final. It’s 9nly considered “tiny” because Dublin have spoiled the GAA.

BarryD2 · 25-06-2018 11:25am

Another boring facile Leinster Champ for the mighty Dubs. Does it even mean anything anymore to the players or punters at this stage? When will reality finally slap the GAA in the face - when the Dubs have 10 Leinster titles in a row or 15?, 20?, 50?

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 11:28am

Powerhouse wrote: »

For something that doesn’t matter you are keeping it going.

As mentioned earlier figures involving Laois-Westmeath in 2004 (both days) were low figures for the time. You seem desperate to avoid the 2004 replay but 38k was smaller than yesterday. Yesterday’s figure compares reasonably well with say the 2010 final (48k) involving Meath and Louth who hadn’t been in a final for 50 years. It was the biggest crowd of any provincial final. It’s 9nly considered “tiny” because Dublin have spoiled the GAA.

Who said it doesn't matter? Of course crowds falling matters!

It matters because it shows the lack of interest even amongst Dublin supporters. It's another issue caused by the financial doping.

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 11:39am

To add to True Gaels videos yesterday, we have another inside source of the structures in place in Dublin to create players. This time it's John O'Loughlin, a Laois player who played against Dublin yesterday. He's a former Games Promotion Officer in Dublin, he made these comments in an article a few months ago:

“It's a huge resource," said O'Loughlin. "If you went through the figures of what Dublin have had compared to other counties over the last 15 years, I’d say they would tell a story.

“I think people are of that opinion so is it going to be acted upon or not, we have to wait and see.

“If you want to be strategic about it, there are 12 counties (in Leinster), so the 12 counties should get an equal proportion.

“Dublin GAA is a powerhouse - it’s a phenomenon. It’s a professional, near Premier League organisation in an amateur association.

"It’s great to say you’re watching them and they’re a huge team and they’re phenomenal - but I think Dublin GAA have it in a lot of ways that other counties probably don’t have it, so that’s a huge thing.

“Every club in Dublin has one, if not two full-time coaches, which is a huge resource to have that other counties don’t have. Financially and logistically, other counties can’t compete, which is an issue."

That's coming from someone who knows the story on the ground in Dublin. His comments should be taken on board. It's not anti-Dublin, it's pointing out the realities and the complete unfairness of the system currently in place. That it's been like this since 2005 is a total scandal and something the GAA should be ashamed of.

Powerhouse · 25-06-2018 11:41am

BarryD2 wrote: »

Another boring facile Leinster Champ for the mighty Dubs. Does it even mean anything anymore to the players or punters at this stage? When will reality finally slap the GAA in the face - when the Dubs have 10 Leinster titles in a row or 15?, 20?, 50?

Maybe reality will slap the GAA in the face about the Le8nster championship around the same time the penny drops about Kerry’s dominance in Munster?

Powerhouse · 25-06-2018 11:49am

DONTMATTER wrote: »

It matters because it shows the lack of interest even amongst Dublin supporters. It's another issue caused by the financial doping.

It’s what can happen when you have a Division 1 team against a Division 4 team. Then again it could be worse, a Division 1 team (Monaghan) played a Division 4 team (Waterford) in the qualifiers and 3,500 showed up. Like I said, Dublin have spoiled the GAA to the point that someone thinks 41,000 is a “tiny crowd”. It is surely the biggest crowd in the championship so far?

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 11:55am

Powerhouse wrote: »

It’s what can happen when you have a Division 1 team against a Division 4 team. Then again it could be worse, a Division 1 team (Monaghan) played a Division 4 team (Waterford) in the qualifiers and 3,500 showed up. Like I said, Dublin have spoiled the GAA to the point that someone thinks 41,000 is a “tiny crowd”. It is surely the biggest crowd in the championship so far?

Crowds are falling, that's the point. You've proved the point even! That's the effect of financial doping as I said. 80,000 v 41,000. It's gone from sell outs to half sold out, hence it's a tiny attendance. You understand?

Bonniedog · 25-06-2018 12:19pm

DONTMATTER wrote: »

“Every club in Dublin has one, if not two full-time coaches, which is a huge resource to have that other counties don’t have.

Every club in Dublin does not have two full time coaches! O'Loughlin thinks there are 500 full time coaches in Dublin

Did he get sun stroke running around after Michael Darragh and Fenton?

My club never had a coach, full time or otherwise, and never had a visit from GPO. I did attend seminars organised by GPO, that was the height of it. Local schools had occasional visits.

500 full time coaches, by the way would amount to annual cost of 20 million!

Even if they all had just one full time coach it would be 10 million.

This argument is becoming more ludicrous by the day.

Powerhouse · 25-06-2018 12:24pm

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Crowds are falling, that's the point. You've proved the point even! That's the effect of financial doping as I said. 80,000 v 41,000. It's gone from sell outs to half sold out, hence it's a tiny attendance. You understand?

No, I don’t understand how 41,000 is (a) a “tiny” attendance (it was the biggest of the championship, hurling or football and 8,000 more than the 2004 replay - it’s just that Dublin’s crowd-pulling has given you lazy expectations) and (b) relates to financial doping. There was 30,000 at Clones yesterday but over a decade ago the Ulster final could pull twice this attendance. Is someone in Ulster being financially doped or how is that drop in attendance explained? Is it Dublin’s fault?

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 12:27pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Every club in Dublin does not have two full time coaches! O'Loughlin thinks there are 500 full time coaches in Dublin

Did he get sun stroke running around after Michael Darragh and Fenton?

My club never had a coach, full time or otherwise, and never had a visit from GPO. I did attend seminars organised by GPO, that was the height of it. Local schools had occasional visits.

500 full time coaches, by the way would amount to annual cost of 20 million!

Even if they all had just one full time coach it would be 10 million.

This argument is becoming more ludicrous by the day.

The defence of the doping is getting more ludicrous by the day.

He said this over a month ago. He didn't say every club had 2 full time coaches.

Obviously the club he worked for; St Bridgets, are set up to a professional level and other Dublin clubs are set up at that level.

Medium to big clubs in Dublin all have access to at least one paid coach.

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 12:32pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

No, I don’t understand how 41,000 is (a) a “tiny” attendance (it was the biggest of the championship, hurling or football and 8,000 more than the 2004 replay - it’s just that Dublin’s crowd-pulling has given you lazy expectations) and (b) relates to financial doping. There was 30,000 at Clones yesterday but over a decade ago the Ulster final could pull twice this attendance. Is someone in Ulster being financially doped or how is that drop in attendance explained? Is it Dublin’s fault?

41,000 v 80,000. Crowds are falling. Even Dublin supporters are losing interest, it can be traced back to the financial doping.
Are you talking about an Ulster final in Croke Park? You're being very dishonest and I've caught you out a few times now. You're also ignoring all the points I've brought up and are arguing something that no one has said.
You are a time waster and for these reasons; welcome to my ignore list. Congratulations.

Bonniedog · 25-06-2018 12:46pm

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Medium to big clubs in Dublin all have access to at least one paid coach.

Brigids are huge club, not at all representative of Dublin, nor even of the part of county they are in where there are much smaller clubs - and much more successful ones in fact

O'Laughlin said that ALL clubs have at least one full time coach. That is just not true. How many full time coaches does his former club Portlaoise have? They are as much a financially doped super club vis a vis other clubs in county as Dublin are nationally in your vision.

DONTMATTER · 25-06-2018 1:05pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Brigids are huge club, not at all representative of Dublin, nor even of the part of county they are in where there are much smaller clubs - and much more successful ones in fact

O'Laughlin said that ALL clubs have at least one full time coach. That is just not true. How many full time coaches does his former club Portlaoise have? They are as much a financially doped super club vis a vis other clubs in county as Dublin are nationally in your vision.

They are a huge club but they're not the only huge club team in Dublin. O'Loughlin has in depth knowledge of clubs of this size, obviously because he worked there. He has seen up close what the set ups are like. Professional level stuff.

Obviously he doesn't know much about smaller clubs in Dublin. Doesn't take away from the main point. I don't believe he's from Portlaoise.

Dr. Bre · 25-06-2018 1:26pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Another boring facile Leinster Champ for the mighty Dubs. Does it even mean anything anymore to the players or punters at this stage? When will reality finally slap the GAA in the face - when the Dubs have 10 Leinster titles in a row or 15?, 20?, 50?

Did u see the other one sided provincial finals? Maybe it’s just the Leinster that annoys you..

LuckyLloyd · 25-06-2018 1:35pm

Div 1:

Kildare, last place (Pl 7 W 0 D 0 L7)

Div 2:

Meath, 5th
Louth, last (Pl 7 W 0 D 0 L7)

Div 3:

Westmeath, 3rd
Longford, 4th
Offaly, 6th
Wexford, last (Pl 7 W 1 D 0 L7)

Div 4:

Carlow, 1st
Laois, 2nd
Wicklow, last (Pl 6 W 0 D 2 L4)

It's not Dublin's fault that these counties have allowed their standards to drop; that they cannot compete throughout the year and are slipping down the national pecking order as a collective grouping. Leaving aside the Leinster Championship, these counties play a number of matches each year in the league and the qualifiers against opposition in and around their own size / level. They aren't competing.

Dublin are doing the right things, their opponents in Leinster are not. Dublin want these counties to sort out their ****, believe me.

TrueGael · 25-06-2018 2:02pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

Maybe reality will slap the GAA in the face about the Le8nster championship around the same time the penny drops about Kerry’s dominance in Munster?

Leinster has 10 Football Counties, Munster has 1 and a half (and thats with regard to participation with regards to the paying punter it's clearly Hurling)

Should Dublin Football be split?

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