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Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

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    #4352
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #4353
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    I have been looking at the polls, and I'm afraid it looks like the Yes side may have it. Is there any way the No side can win?

    They could start by cutting out lying, misrepresenting facts, manipulating statistics to further their agenda, scare-mongering and posting up extremely graphic images around primary schools.

    That might be a good one to go off.


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    #4354
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    end of the road wrote: »
    fetuses are human beings, but not persons. they are not awarded any rights at the expence of the women carying them, they only have the right to life, and that is only as far as it is practical to uphold that right to life. the costs of children are better value for money for the tax payer as they have a good chance of being contributing members of society. the law that prevents the killing of the unborn except in extreme circumstances is also there to protect our society. i gave you possible options that were availible, they did not suit you, but that doesn't mean they aren't options.

    Fetus's are not members of society. Women are members of society. The woman should trump the fetus unless she choose otherwise.
    Are you suggesting that we have more children just to prop up the pension funds of the older generation? Seriously?

    Nope, not that they didn't suit me, they were rubbish options.
    "Work more hours" is useless advice to an unemployed mother with no babysitter. Who minds her child while she's working all these hours?

    Your other option was "contacting a charity". Charities are there as a lifeline during periods of emergency for families. Charities are not there to supplement the income or lifestyle for an entire family over a number of years.

    So really you've just proven that you can't provide any alternative options. Your suggestions are impractical and of no use. They simply do not stack up at all.
    So you've come up with nothing.


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    #4355
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    Fetus's are not members of society. Women are members of society. The woman should trump the fetus unless she choose otherwise.
    Are you suggesting that we have more children just to prop up the pension funds of the older generation? Seriously?

    Nope, not that they didn't suit me, they were rubbish options.
    "Work more hours" is useless advice to an unemployed mother with no babysitter. Who minds her child while she's working all these hours?

    Your other option was "contacting a charity". Charities are there as a lifeline during periods of emergency for families. Charities are not there to supplement the income or lifestyle for an entire family over a number of years.

    So really you've just proven that you can't provide any alternative options. Your suggestions are impractical and of no use. They simply do not stack up at all.
    So you've come up with nothing.


    ireland does actually need a population increase and more workers and a greater tax income base to support better services. mass-immigration won't be able to help us in that regard.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4356
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    just to mention that pro-life have not and do not lie, have not and do not misrepresent facts, have not and do not manipulate statistics, have not and do not scaremonger as has been claimed by another poster.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4357
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    end of the road wrote: »
    just to mention that pro-life have not and do not lie, have not and do not misrepresent facts, have not and do not manipulate statistics, have not and do not scaremonger as has been claimed by another poster.

    The fake nurse.
    1 in 5 of all pregnancies end in abortion.
    90% of babies with Down Syndrome are aborted.
    Abortion up until birth.
    The 8th hasn't contributed to women's deaths.
    Posting pictures of aborted fetuses next to primary schools (so that young children may see them).

    Give your head a shake.


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    #4358
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the fake nurse was a simple failure to check credentials. a stupid mistake, absolutely. deliberate, i don't believe so.
    the 1 in 5 isn't a lie. it cannot be proved or disproven. some people want other factors included rather then just abortion and others believe just including abortion is fine.
    90% of babies with Down Syndrome are aborted i believe is another one that hasn't been disproved.
    abortion up until birth is technically correct all be it the proposal is that it is for FFA cases. however there is nothing in theory stopping a government from legislating for abortion up to birth in the future, so it should be debated now while we have the chance to, as if repeal is passed that is the last referendum we will have in relation to abortion. so i wouldn't call it a lie.
    the 8th not causing deaths is a very debatible 1. 2 of the claimed deaths, 1 was before the 8th was introduced, and another died due to a mismanagement of an underlying condition.
    so no actual lies there from what i can find.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4359
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    end of the road wrote: »
    just to mention that pro-life have not and do not lie, have not and do not misrepresent facts, have not and do not manipulate statistics, have not and do not scaremonger as has been claimed by another poster.

    I seem to remember them claiming that abortion causes breast cancer not too long ago.

    Not lie :rolleyes:


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    #4360
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I seem to remember them claiming that abortion causes breast cancer not too long ago.

    Not lie

    1 clinic apparently. a rather ridiculous thing to tell someone i agree, but it's not representative of the whole pro-life campaign. so my point still stands.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4361
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    end of the road wrote: »
    the fake nurse was a simple failure to check credentials. a stupid mistake, absolutely. deliberate, i don't believe so.

    It was entirely deliberate. He deliberately lied about his credentials.

    end of the road wrote: »
    the 1 in 5 isn't a lie. it cannot be proved or disproven. some people want other factors included rather then just abortion and others believe just including abortion is fine.

    It is a lie, 1 in 5 of all pregnancies do not end in abortion. Miscarriage and stillbirths are excluded so the figure has been manipulated. If you say 1 in 5 of all pregnancies end in abortion, then you include all pregnancies.
    end of the road wrote: »
    90% of babies with Down Syndrome are aborted i believe is another one that hasn't been disproved.

    It was proven that the pro-life crowd deliberately misrepresented this statistic. 64% of cases of Down Syndrome diagnoses are found prenatally (before birth), 36% are diagnosed after they are born. So 90% of babies prenatally diagnosed with Down Syndrome are aborted. Not 90% of babies with Down Syndrome are aborted. Lies, misrepresentation and scaremongering there by insinuating lamely that it's a form of genocide.
    end of the road wrote: »
    so no actual lies there from what i can find.

    I found lies just there, lies that have been proven to be lies.

    You just don't believe they are lies, and yet again just because you don't believe something is a lie, does not make it so.

    Sit down, cop on.
    end of the road wrote: »
    1 clinic apparently. a rather ridiculous thing to tell someone i agree, but it's not representative of the whole pro-life campaign. so my point still stands.

    Your point just got knocked on its hole.


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    #4362
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    I have been looking at the polls, and I'm afraid it looks like the Yes side may have it. Is there any way the No side can win?

    Firstly, there's the fact it's a poll. Polls aren't by any means a guarantee of anything.

    Secondly, polls measure the viewpoints of people at a particular time. They don't measure whether people will turn up at the polling station or not.

    A viewpoint not expressed in the polling station doesn't count towards victory.


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    #4363
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    end of the road wrote: »
    1 clinic apparently. a rather ridiculous thing to tell someone i agree, but it's not representative of the whole pro-life campaign. so my point still stands.

    One clinic that was caught by an undercover reporter....how many others saying the same thing?

    Precious Life also claim on their website that abortion causes cancer

    And one public meeting that was due to be held last year by a pro life group was cancelled because they link abortion with breast cancer


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    #4364
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    It was proven that the pro-life crowd deliberately misrepresented this statistic. 64% of cases of Down Syndrome diagnoses are found prenatally (before birth), 36% are diagnosed after they are born. So 90% of babies prenatally diagnosed with Down Syndrome are aborted. Not 90% of babies with Down Syndrome are aborted. Lies, misrepresentation and scaremongering there by insinuating lamely that it's a form of genocide.

    Talk about winning the battle and losing the war!

    When able to detect D.S. prenatally 90% of cases will be aborted. It doesn't take much of a brain to figure out what would have happened to the 36% if they hadn't been missed by the prenatal trawling net.


    It appears you'd argue that the holocaust wasn't genocide because some Jews managed to find a hiding place under the floorboards?


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    #4365
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Talk about winning the battle and losing the war!

    When able to detect D.S. prenatally 90% of cases will be aborted. It doesn't take much of a brain to figure out what would have happened to the 36% if they hadn't been missed by the prenatal trawling net.


    It appears you'd argue that the holocaust wasn't genocide because some Jews managed to find a hiding place under the floorboards?

    It wouldn't take much of a brain to figure out that telling people 90% of all babies with Down Syndrome is a lie. Do you even have any clue what the "prenatal trawling net" is? The other 36% either could not or did not have the test. It is a test that is done upon request, if you don't request it, you won't find out the results, simple as.

    No, I wouldn't. Holocaust again is completely irrelevant to what we're discussing here but nice strawmanning.


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    #4366
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    Talk about winning the battle and losing the war!

    When able to detect D.S. prenatally 90% of cases will be aborted. It doesn't take much of a brain to figure out what would have happened to the 36% if they hadn't been missed by the prenatal trawling net.


    It appears you'd argue that the holocaust wasn't genocide because some Jews managed to find a hiding place under the floorboards?

    Are you suggesting everyone with a DS child would have aborted them had that been an option?


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    #4367
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    It was entirely deliberate. He deliberately lied about his credentials.

    on his part only. him lying is down to him only, nobody else. the campaign failed to check his credentials, which is their fault on that score, but ultimately the blame lies with him, and his lying is not the fault of the pro-life campaign.
    robarmstrong wrote: »
    It is a lie, 1 in 5 of all pregnancies do not end in abortion. Miscarriage and stillbirths are excluded so the figure has been manipulated. If you say 1 in 5 of all pregnancies end in abortion, then you include all pregnancies.

    it is not a lie, as the figure is about abortions only. we have 1 article today in the journal stating it cannot be proved or disproved. some want certain factors included such as miscarrages and stillbirths, which are tragic natural occurrences rather then abortion, whereas others wish to simply include abortion only. the figure has not been manipulated. if you say 1 in 5 of all pregnancies end in abortion, then you include abortion only, as abortion is what is being discussed and not miscarrages and stillbirths. you can argue a miscarrage is a form of abortion, but the figure is talking about interventionist abortions.
    robarmstrong wrote: »
    It was proven that the pro-life crowd deliberately misrepresented this statistic. 64% of cases of Down Syndrome diagnoses are found prenatally (before birth), 36% are diagnosed after they are born. So 90% of babies prenatally diagnosed with Down Syndrome are aborted. Not 90% of babies with Down Syndrome are aborted. Lies, misrepresentation and scaremongering there by insinuating lamely that it's a form of genocide.

    there is no lie or scaremongering there. the figure is 90% of downs babies are aborted, it goes without saying that those have been diagnosed as such. that amount of abortions of 1 specific group would certainly fit the term of genocide.
    robarmstrong wrote: »
    I found lies just there, lies that have been proven to be lies.

    You just don't believe they are lies, and yet again just because you don't believe something is a lie, does not make it so.

    Sit down, cop on.



    Your point just got knocked on its hole.

    you have found no lies, you have found statements you want to be lies but which aren't, they don't suit your point of view is all. that's okay that they aren't what you want to hear, but they aren't lies. just because you believe something to be a lie, doesn't make it so. sit down, cop on. your point just got knocked on its hole. oh dear, try again.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4368
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    eviltwin wrote: »
    One clinic that was caught by an undercover reporter....how many others saying the same thing?

    Precious Life also claim on their website that abortion causes cancer

    And one public meeting that was due to be held last year by a pro life group was cancelled because they link abortion with breast cancer


    that's on them only, they are responsible for making that claim. they are wrong to make it, but they only represent themselves when they make the claim.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4369
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    end of the road wrote: »
    on his part only. him lying is down to him only, nobody else. the campaign failed to check his credentials, which is their fault on that score, but ultimately the blame lies with him, and his lying is not the fault of the pro-life campaign.

    Nope, both lied. The campaign lied about his credentials as well as him in attempt to defend him but it was figured out and now he isn't part of the campaign anymore, I wonder why?


    end of the road wrote: »
    it is not a lie, as the figure is about abortions only. we have 1 article today in the journal stating it cannot be proved or disproved. some want certain factors included such as miscarrages and stillbirths, which are tragic natural occurrences rather then abortion, whereas others wish to simply include abortion only. the figure has not been manipulated. if you say 1 in 5 of all pregnancies end in abortion, then you include abortion only, as abortion is what is being discussed and not miscarrages and stillbirths. you can argue a miscarrage is a form of abortion, but the figure is talking about interventionist abortions.

    It is a lie. 1 in 5 of all pregnancies do not end in abortion. "Some want certain factors included" because the certain factors are excluded for the sole purpose of misrepresenting the facts. Miscarriages and stillbirths are included in ALL pregnancies, so if you say 1 in 5 of ALL pregnancies, you need to include miscarriages and stillbirths. Figure was manipulated to bits.
    end of the road wrote: »
    there is no lie or scaremongering there. the figure is 90% of downs babies are aborted, it goes without saying that those have been diagnosed as such. that amount of abortions of 1 specific group would certainly fit the term of genocide.

    90% of DS pregnancies aren't aborted. 90% of pregnancies prenatally diagnosed with DS were aborted. "It goes without saying those have been diagnosed as such" - is that a fact, is it? The fact is that 90% of all babies with DS aren't aborted. Figure was manipulated to bits.


    end of the road wrote: »
    you have found no lies, you have found statements you want to be lies but which aren't, they don't suit your point of view is all. that's okay that they aren't what you want to hear, but they aren't lies. just because you believe something to be a lie, doesn't make it so. sit down, cop on. your point just got knocked on its hole. oh dear, try again.

    I've found plenty of lies, which have been proven to be lies/misrepresentations/manipulation of statistics/misleading by conveniently leaving key parts out (ah but sure it goes without saying).

    Believe they're lies? They have been proven and are now known to be lies.

    Not gonna last much longer now are you son?


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    #4370
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    end of the road wrote: »
    that's on them only, they are responsible for making that claim. they are wrong to make it, but they only represent themselves when they make the claim.

    It just goes to show its not just one group or individual pushing this claim, it's a few and unfortunately people take it as fact and pass it on. I haven't seen any pro life group refute these claims either. The pro life base their entire campaign on lies.


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    #4371
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    2009: Prenatal diagnosis: 1,171 (terminations – 876), postnatal diagnoses: 716 = 1887 pregnancies with Down Syndrome.
    2010: Prenatal: 1,188 (terminations - 942 ), postnatal: 680 = 1868 pregnancies with Down Syndrome.
    2011: Prenatal: 1,211 (terminations – 931), postnatal: 662 = 1873 pregnancies with Down Syndrome
    2012: Prenatal: 1,259 (terminations – 983), postnatal: 723 = 1982 pregnancies with Down Syndrome.

    Gonna make this easier for you eotr as you seem to have some difficulty here.

    2009: 876/1887 = 46% of pregnancies with DS are aborted.
    2010: 942/1868 = 50% of pregnancies with DS are aborted.
    2011: 921/1873 = 49% of pregnancies with DS are aborted.
    2012: 983/1982 = 49% of pregnancies with DS are aborted.

    So yeah, that's definitely equal to 90% of pregnancies/babies with DS are aborted.

    Sit down lad.


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    #4372
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    Nope, both lied. The campaign lied about his credentials as well as him in attempt to defend him but it was figured out and now he isn't part of the campaign anymore, I wonder why?

    nope, noel lied, the campaign failed to check his credentials. he is responsible for the lying only. the campaign are responsible for a simple failure to check. they ditched him when it came out.
    robarmstrong wrote: »
    It is a lie. 1 in 5 of all pregnancies do not end in abortion. "Some want certain factors included" because the certain factors are excluded for the sole purpose of misrepresenting the facts. Miscarriages and stillbirths are included in ALL pregnancies, so if you say 1 in 5 of ALL pregnancies, you need to include miscarriages and stillbirths. Figure was manipulated to bits.

    the figures are for induced abortions which would not include miscarrage or stillbirths, which are tragic natural occurrences. you are not going to include natural occurrences in figures that are in relation to induced acts.
    robarmstrong wrote: »
    90% of DS pregnancies aren't aborted. 90% of pregnancies prenatally diagnosed with DS were aborted. "It goes without saying those have been diagnosed as such" - is that a fact, is it? The fact is that 90% of all babies with DS aren't aborted. Figure was manipulated to bits.

    the figure refers to diagnosed downs babies from anything i have saw in relation to the claim on the posters.
    eviltwin wrote: »
    It just goes to show its not just one group or individual pushing this claim, it's a few and unfortunately people take it as fact and pass it on. I haven't seen any pro life group refute these claims either. The pro life base their entire campaign on lies.

    the pro-life certainly don't base their campaign on lies. the odd element have lied but they represent themselves only. there are individuals on both sides who are undesirable, the same for any campaign. they represent nobody but themselves.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4373
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,869 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    I think someone missed a trick not bringing up this clanger.


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    #4374
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    end of the road wrote: »
    nope, noel lied, the campaign failed to check his credentials. he is responsible for the lying only. the campaign are responsible for a simple failure to check. they ditched him when it came out.

    Both the campaign and Noel lied about his credentials, John McGuirk was the one at fault for it as well.


    end of the road wrote: »
    the figures are for induced abortions which would not include miscarrage or stillbirths, which are tragic natural occurrences. you are not going to include natural occurrences in figures that are in relation to induced acts.

    No, their statement is that 1 in 5 of all pregnancies ends in abortion. That has been proven wrong.


    end of the road wrote: »
    the figure refers to diagnosed downs babies from anything i have saw in relation to the claim on the posters.



    https://httpsak-a.akamaihd.net/1795463433001/1795463433001_5722382363001_5722371216001-vs.jpg?pubId=1795463433001&videoId=5722371216001 Uh oh!


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    #4375
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,468 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    Both the campaign and Noel lied about his credentials, John McGuirk was the one at fault for it as well.





    No, their statement is that 1 in 5 of all pregnancies ends in abortion. That has been proven wrong.







    https://httpsak-a.akamaihd.net/1795463433001/1795463433001_5722382363001_5722371216001-vs.jpg?pubId=1795463433001&videoId=5722371216001 Uh oh!

    Ah lads why bother feeding it? God knows how many weeks now of the same copy/paste soapboxing from the same posters constantly repeating the same.lies. there's reasons why they are banned from most of these threads.


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    #4376
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    good article. have a read.

    https://www.healthline.com/health-news/the-debate-over-terminating-down-syndrome-pregnancies#modal-close

    absolutely shocking figures. no words.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4377
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    end of the road wrote: »
    good article. have a read.

    https://www.healthline.com/health-news/the-debate-over-terminating-down-syndrome-pregnancies#modal-close

    absolutely shocking figures. no words.

    Oh look, you're ignoring the facts I've posted.

    I'll help you out.
    robarmstrong wrote: »
    2009: Prenatal diagnosis: 1,171 (terminations – 876), postnatal diagnoses: 716 = 1887 pregnancies with Down Syndrome.
    2010: Prenatal: 1,188 (terminations - 942 ), postnatal: 680 = 1868 pregnancies with Down Syndrome.
    2011: Prenatal: 1,211 (terminations – 931), postnatal: 662 = 1873 pregnancies with Down Syndrome
    2012: Prenatal: 1,259 (terminations – 983), postnatal: 723 = 1982 pregnancies with Down Syndrome.

    Gonna make this easier for you eotr as you seem to have some difficulty here.

    2009: 876/1887 = 46% of pregnancies with DS are aborted.
    2010: 942/1868 = 50% of pregnancies with DS are aborted.
    2011: 921/1873 = 49% of pregnancies with DS are aborted.
    2012: 983/1982 = 49% of pregnancies with DS are aborted.

    So yeah, that's definitely equal to 90% of pregnancies/babies with DS are aborted.

    Sit down lad.

    So is the pro life poster truth or a lie?

    https://httpsak-a.akamaihd.net/1795463433001/1795463433001_5722382363001_5722371216001-vs.jpg?pubId=1795463433001&videoId=5722371216001


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    #4378
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    robarmstrong wrote: »
    Oh look, you're ignoring the facts I've posted.

    I'll help you out.



    So is the pro life poster truth or a lie?

    https://httpsak-a.akamaihd.net/1795463433001/1795463433001_5722382363001_5722371216001-vs.jpg?pubId=1795463433001&videoId=5722371216001


    the pro-life poster is the truth, i addressed the figures, it's not my fault or problem if you don't believe the figure, i can only give the information, after that it's up to you what you do with it, i won't be engaging in a never ending circle jerk, believe the figure or don't.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4379
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    end of the road wrote: »
    good article. have a read.

    https://www.healthline.com/health-news/the-debate-over-terminating-down-syndrome-pregnancies#modal-close

    absolutely shocking figures. no words.

    Irrelevant article, because our laws won't include disability as grounds for an abortion at any stage during the pregnancy.

    But seeing as how you're back, I'm still waiting on an answer to this question.


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    #4380
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    end of the road wrote: »
    the pro-life poster is the truth, i addressed the figures, it's not my fault or problem if you don't believe the figure, i can only give the information, after that it's up to you what you do with it, i won't be engaging in a never ending circle jerk, believe the figure or don't.

    The pro-life poster isn't the truth.

    From a fact check
    Is the statement on the billboard correct?

    The statement on the billboard poster is:

    In Britain, 90% of babies with Down Syndrome are aborted.
    On a basic level, the statement does not clarify that the 90% rate refers to prenatally diagnosed Down syndrome.

    In order to be fully correct, the poster could say:

    In England and Wales, 90% of pregnancies with prenatally diagnosed Down syndrome are terminated.

    Here is the factual evidence (i.e THE MEDICAL REPORTS) stating the babies/pregnancies terminated due to DS.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/abortion-statistics-for-england-and-wales
    http://archive.wolfson.qmul.ac.uk/ndscr/reports/NDSCRreport09.pdf
    You are outright refusing factual evidence now, you are genuinely refusing the evidence right in your face dictating that the pro-life poster is a lie/misrepresentation/manipulation or misleading statistic.

    Here are links to articles essentially discounting the "1 in 5 of ALL pregnancies end in abortion.

    http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=669
    https://www.genesisresearchtrust.com/our-work/problems/1-in-4-pregnancies-ends-in-miscarriage
    https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/miscarriage/ - states 1 in 6 in UK.
    https://www.tommys.org/pregnancy-information/im-pregnant/early-pregnancy/how-common-miscarriage

    They show that the 1 in 5 of all pregnancies poster is a blatant lie.

    Wriggle your way out of this one.


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    #4381
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Irrelevant article, because our laws won't include disability as grounds for an abortion at any stage during the pregnancy.

    But seeing as how you're back, I'm still waiting on an answer to this question.


    it's not irrelevant as the law can be changed in the future to include such babies. the current proposals cannot be guaranteed to be the laws indefinitely.
    NuMarvel wrote: »
    Yep. And there's a separate law preventing abortions, except in life-threatening circumstances, with a completely different crime and penalty for illegal abortions. Because the law doesn't regard the unborn as a human being.

    But if you regard abortions as the killing of human beings, do you think the women who use imported abortion pills should stand trial and sent to prison if found guilty?

    ideally yes, they imported illegal pills, they should be treated the same as any other drug importer. however, the problem with that is it may make these women marters, and that would also be a problem for me.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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