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Would Mike Tyson have had sustained success against today's Super Heavy weights?

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  • 29-06-2017 11:00pm
    #1
    badabing106
    Registered Users Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭


    I know that alot of people will look back with rose tinted glasses and say he would have knocked out everyone today within 3 rounds, but I don't think he would

    I'm not sure he would have had much success against the best biggest guys today. Not sustainable success

    Sure he could knock them out if they make a mistake , but if he doesn't do it within the first few rounds. He's kind of absolutely shot, and in for a long beating

    He would have no intimidation factor over today's Big heavyweights. I can't imagine Anthony joshua, Deontay Wilder or Tyson Fury quaking in their boots facing a 5 foot ten boxer? I think the blue print for defeating a much smaller heavyweight has been well and truely written?


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    #2
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    A focused and hungry Tyson would have no problems against today's heavies, madness to think otherwise

    He gave Lewis problems in the first few rounds and was a decade past his best then.

    A fat past prime Lewis tore the face off the best Heavy of the last 15 years in Vitali

    Fury would have been tough for Mike, a bit tall and awkward, but would still be beatable

    Joshua and Wilder would be easy, both very average,

    Wlad would be tough to hit, if Mike did connect it's over

    Vitali would beat Mike everytime too big and hard


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    #3
    badabing106
    Registered Users Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭badabing106


    thierry14 wrote: »
    A focused and hungry Tyson would have no problems against today's heavies, madness to think otherwise

    I could say the same thing about Tyson Fury. If a disciplined and focused Tyson Fury fought a focused and hungry Mike Tyson. Tyson Fury would win


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    #4
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Prime Tyson would demolish wilder very early.
    I'd be pretty confident of him getting the k/o on both AJ and wlad before the 6th.
    In the case of fury it'd pretty much be over whenever Mike landed and to date nearly every fury opponent has landed something of note over the 12rds.

    Also Prior to the Buster Douglas fight Mike's stamina was always pretty much grand he could and did go the distance on a number of occasions and also got a number of stoppages in the latter rounds so again I don't see the issue.

    Anyone saying Mike can be competitive against today's heavies isn't looking through rose tinted glasses at all IMO, they're simply acknowledging how good he was.

    And finally to think a Mike Tyson with a 35-0 win streak wouldn't be intimidating is quite a statement.


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    #5
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,094 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Just go watch the 1986/1987/1988 and 1989 tapes.

    These threads pop up all the time.

    Look at the best today. Are they really special? Can they be hurt? Absolutely, and with a peak Tyson who had a granite chin, very good fitness and the speed of feet and hands to get in and whack the bigger men, then the likes of AJ would be demolished in no time. He thinks that extended right hand that Wlad hit him with was heavy?

    Tyson would absolutely rule today if he was at his best. Too good in all areas, and and areas that is sometimes overlooked is his boxing ability and defense.

    Tyson Fury would likely be broken down with vicious body attacks. Seriously, does Tyson Fury land anything on a bobbing and weaving Tyson? And if he does, do they deter Tyson? No way. Plus, Tyson will be able to reach Fury's head. It's not an impossibility.


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    #6
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,094 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    BTW, what SHs are out there today?

    Wilder is not a SHW in the same sense that Bowe and Lewis were

    AJ is a SHW, but really, so what. He is too hittable, and with Tyson connecting he gets decimated. Tyson fights to "kill," not to win.

    Wlad has no hope against a prime Tyson

    Vitali.....yes. Big, tough and can box and spoil. Still think he would need to be at his best. No way he just strolls in there and beats Tyson handy. But a few years retired now, so not relevant.

    Who else today? Haye, Bellew, Parker.........what a joke.


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    #7
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,945 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Vitali at his best is the only one who beats Tyson imo, and even then that's not a guarantee, but I'd favour him. Anyone else over the last 10-15 years is blown out of there tbh


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    #8
    Phil.x
    Registered Users Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Anthony joshua!! Please, he'd be only cannon fodder to tyson.


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    #9
    thierry14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭thierry14


    titan18 wrote: »
    Vitali at his best is the only one who beats Tyson imo, and even then that's not a guarantee, but I'd favour him. Anyone else over the last 10-15 years is blown out of there tbh

    That would be my feeling too

    I don't give Mike any chance though, it's a bad much up for him, Vitali can take his shots and give it back

    Vitali is a bad matchup for everyone

    Vitali would beat Joshua and the likes today lol, don't rate any of them

    Holyhead vs today's heavies would have been a better topic as he didn't have the power Mike had


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    #10
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,094 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Holyfield, like Mike would rule today. He's a different kind of operator, but his rhythm, fluidity, chin, combination punching, overall variety and game, as well as his indomitable spirit would see him carve up any HW today.

    Watch the tapes from 1991-1992..he may not have had crippling one punch power, but he could hurt you, and more impressively was his follow up shots.

    AJ is lauded as number 1 today. Barring a one shot KO he has no chance. Anyone doubting that go watch Bowe-Holyfield 1. Bowe for me clearly superior in every department compared to both AJ and Wlad.

    Holyfield gets right through AJ and Wlad to land heavy and sustained combinations taking both out early to mid rds.

    Fury offers nothing but height and awkwardness.

    Wilder has only a punchers chance, and for me he won't do it.


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    #11
    badabing106
    Registered Users Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭badabing106


    Wlad and fury would have stolen Mike's soul. The frustration of not being able to get near them. Getting peppered with shots, leaned on, man handled thrown to the floor. By the 4th or 5th with all his energy gone, his legs shot . quitting in the stool or getting disqualified is his only way out. Have we not seen this all before. Everyone wishes to imagine him highlight reel knocking out everyone like he was some cartoon character. The reality would be and was different

    A prime Tyson lost to a gatekeeper. His cleverly crafted aura was gone. He was only 24 years old. Had he fought Holyfield after his loss to Douglas, he would have lost. Holyfield was a better fighter, and obviously better mentally.


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    #12
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,094 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Douglas was no gatekeeper. He was 6'4" and circa 230 lbs and in his prime against an underprepared Tyson. Douglas was ranked elite in 1990.

    Simple. Tyson got to the chins of bigger men and knocked them out. Wlad's chin is far too vulnerable to have any confidence in it. Tyson will land on it and knock Wlad out.

    Fury? Not even going to entertain that lump as having the remotest chance to survive, let alone beat a peak Tyson..


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    #13
    boxer.fan
    Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭boxer.fan


    Tyson was a different animal to any of those around these days. His bodywork was ferocious and his ability to get inside and create havoc was a joy to watch. He would make today's heavyweights look like plodders.
    I can't see any way Wlad, AJ, Fury, Wilder or any of the other jokers would drag Tyson into later rounds.


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    #14
    Littlehorny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,351 ✭✭✭Littlehorny


    This debate is exactly why Tyson must be the most talked about fighter since Ali, he is a riddle wrapped in a puzzle. We all seen his highlight reels when he was young and in love with the sport, his speed, movement, power and ferocity has us lining up to watch his fights. Even if they only lasted a round!
    But when you talk of Tyson you also have to be balanced in your analysis.
    1. He beat good fighters, no greats, when he met the two best of his era (Holyfield and Lewis) he lost.
    2. He never came from behind to win a real war in his career.
    3. He was finished and "past it" at 24, no other fighter in the world gets to use this as an excuse, when i here the words "prime Tyson" it makes my teeth curl. What does it mean?
    4. He was made to look human by a few lesser fighters in his early twenties (James Tillis, Mitch Green,Tony Tucker)
    Saying that Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis would be competitive in any era and if they were around today we would be the better for it. The Klitchko's have done enough to be part of this debate but the rest have done fub all to convince me that Tyson wouldn't blow them away.


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    #15
    megadodge
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭megadodge


    Littlehorny wrote: »
    This debate is exactly why Tyson must be the most talked about fighter since Ali, he is a riddle wrapped in a puzzle. We all seen his highlight reels when he was young and in love with the sport, his speed, movement, power and ferocity has us lining up to watch his fights. Even if they only lasted a round!
    But when you talk of Tyson you also have to be balanced in your analysis.
    1. He beat good fighters, no greats, when he met the two best of his era (Holyfield and Lewis) he lost.
    2. He never came from behind to win a real war in his career.
    3. He was finished and "past it" at 24, no other fighter in the world gets to use this as an excuse, when i here the words "prime Tyson" it makes my teeth curl. What does it mean?
    4. He was made to look human by a few lesser fighters in his early twenties (James Tillis, Mitch Green,Tony Tucker)
    Saying that Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis would be competitive in any era and if they were around today we would be the better for it. The Klitchko's have done enough to be part of this debate but the rest have done fub all to convince me that Tyson wouldn't blow them away.

    Point 3 is a long standing bugbear of mine. I have mentioned here on a few occasions about how no other boxer in history would ever be allowed that as an excuse, but Tyson gets a free pass.

    By the way, he was 23 in the Douglas fight. Worse again.


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    #16
    Too Tough To Die
    Registered Users Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭Too Tough To Die


    The Gypsy King would've boxed his ears off.


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    #17
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,094 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    megadodge wrote: »
    Point 3 is a long standing bugbear of mine. I have mentioned here on a few occasions about how no other boxer in history would ever be allowed that as an excuse, but Tyson gets a free pass.

    By the way, he was 23 in the Douglas fight. Worse again.

    I don't think most people are saying he was finished and passed it by 24. I know I am not.

    My point in the Tokyo loss was to do with Mike not being as prepared mentally and physically for that fight as he was when Rooney was his man.

    Tyson's life was spiralling out of control, and this affected him in Tokyo. No doubt about it. There was a sharpness missing. Clear to me.

    Is that an excuse? Yes, but not to say that he was finished or passed his best. Simply to say that he was not the same fighter that night that he was previously, particularly when Rooney was his man.


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    #18
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,094 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Too Tough To Die wrote: »
    The Gypsy King would've boxed his ears off.

    Until Mike hit him!


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    #19
    ThinkProgress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭ThinkProgress


    Littlehorny wrote: »
    3. He was finished and "past it" at 24, no other fighter in the world gets to use this as an excuse, when i here the words "prime Tyson" it makes my teeth curl. What does it mean?

    Because he was no ordinary heavyweight (in any sense of the word)

    It is perfectly conceivable that a 5ft 10in heavyweight could very well be past their athletic prime by mid twenties... in an era of giants!

    I think people underestimate just how physically incredible you need to be, in order to blitz through the HW division KO'ing everyone, when you are shorter than some middleweights!!

    And also, just how clever your fighting style needs to be.

    The very early mike tyson, is the only tyson that I personally rate. We got a small glimpse at something very special and unique... and then it was gone!

    That version of tyson, could have given any HW in history a serious headache!!


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    #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Did Tyson ever fail a test for PEDs? or was it only for recreational drugs?


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    #21
    sReq | uTeK
    Registered Users Posts: 6,005 ✭✭✭sReq | uTeK


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Did Tyson ever fail a test for PEDs? or was it only for recreational drugs?

    Fantastic contribution...lets muddy the waters for no reason other than to do so.


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    sReq | uTeK wrote: »
    Fantastic contribution...lets muddy the waters for no reason other than to do so.

    I am not trolling or anything. I honestly love Tyson, I am genuinely curious if he ever failed because of PEDs :confused: Tyson is a legend, the guy is amazing. The point of a forum is to ask questions and find out information, I thought this being the boxing forum, someone might know what I asked.


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    #23
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Lads Tyson would have eaten today's HW's no bother. The man was in a spiral of self abuse when he fought Douglas. If he had managed to keep his nose (literally) clean and stayed dedicated to boxing, he would have passed marciano's figure. He was a machine...every fighter he came up against was destroyed. His movement was unreal and his punching power was unsurpassed.


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    #24
    deadybai
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭deadybai


    Mike Tyson is a bit like Wayne Rooney in the soccer . One of the most gifted around but when it came to game day he underwhelmed.

    Rooney is England an Man United's top scorer. Yet he probably would be lucky to make top ten greats for either of them.

    Similar to rooney, Tyson has all the kos in the world but any of his biggest fights he was destroyed.

    Its funny how sport can be like that.

    i thinkTyson would be similar today if he was around. Hed beat the lesser fighters like Joshua but lose against the proven apponents like vitali.


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    #25
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,983 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    The problem with all Tyson debates is his longevity. 'Prime' Tyson only lasted a few years in his early 20s and at that time his opposition wasn't great. Maybe this prime Tyson was TBE but who will ever know? Most TBE contenders hung around for a much longer period....

    Tyson had potential to be the best ever but self discipline let him down.


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    #26
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,094 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    normanoffside wrote: »
    The problem with all Tyson debates is his longevity. 'Prime' Tyson only lasted a few years in his early 20s and at that time his opposition wasn't great. Maybe this prime Tyson was TBE but who will ever know? Most TBE contenders hung around for a much longer period....

    Tyson had potential to be the best ever but self discipline let him down.

    The thread is not asking about atg or tbe..


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    #27
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,983 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    walshb wrote: »
    The thread is not asking about atg or tbe..

    Yeah but it's really hard to evaluate someone on such a limited timespan


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    #28
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,094 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Yeah but it's really hard to evaluate someone on such a limited timespan

    4 years he ruled..

    He also had some real success post 1990.

    Surely there is enough there to give a view on how he fares against the best of today.


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    #29
    robfowler78
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭robfowler78


    The fact with Tyson is no one will every know how good he could have been. In his early career he was clearly unstoppable in his division. He had beaten everyone put up in front of him. He never really ducked anyone he just happened to go of the rails before he was to fight holyfield. After his release he still had enough to beat some of the heavy weights around including two champions. He was clearly not the same fighter he had no stamina and his movement was nonexistent. Yet he was able to go more then 10 rounds with Lewis and holyfield. I think that shows that even a bad Tyson was dangerous to today's heavyweights. Tyson biggest problem was money and yes men any boxing person can see he completely changed once he had money and fame.


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    #30
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,094 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    deadybai wrote: »
    Mike Tyson is a bit like Wayne Rooney in the soccer . One of the most gifted around but when it came to game day he underwhelmed.

    Rooney is England an Man United's top scorer. Yet he probably would be lucky to make top ten greats for either of them.

    Similar to rooney, Tyson has all the kos in the world but any of his biggest fights he was destroyed.

    Its funny how sport can be like that.

    i thinkTyson would be similar today if he was around. Hed beat the lesser fighters like Joshua but lose against the proven apponents like vitali.

    So the ten or so championship fights that just happened to include unifying the championship in quite a dominant fashion, they weren't the game days, only the losses post prison when clearly past his best, they were the game days?

    The selectivity here is bewildering.

    Tyson accomplished more than enough in the 7-8 years of success for us to make an assessment of how he fares against the best around today.

    1986-1990 is 5 calendar years. 1991 is one more year

    1995 is another year. That is 7 calendar years with one single defeat, and circa 13 championship fights with 12 wins..and on game day he underwhelmed? Wtf...

    1996 saw his 14th championship fight, and 2nd loss, that to Evander.


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    #31
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,094 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    That Louis and Ali duo. Just couldn't perform on game days...that angle can be thrown at any fighter...

    For the record. I am not saying this is true. Just pointing out the absurdity of it.


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