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Off the Fence....and looking to go sub 3 hrs

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Duanington


    Nutrition is something that I've just gotten into the habit of taking care of as the mileage has gone up over the last 12-18 months....while simultaneously pi$$ing of family\friends\GF !

    You're probably already well versed on all of this M and most of it is common sense but on the off chance that you might pick up something:

    I eat fruit, not dessert or sweets ( much to my GF's annoyance)
    I only run once per week on empty ( ideally I'd do this on my long run but can't because of the timing), usually my Saturday morning session is run on empty.
    I would normally have a post session smoothie with fruit, peanut butter and a bit of whey - I know people say its a waste of money but I do find the whey makes a difference. ( I only use it after sessions though)
    I snack a lot - fruit, berries, nuts, peanut butter on apple slices\bananas.
    I would usually carry a bottle of water around with me in work, sipping on it throughout the day but not guzzling gallons of the stuff either
    I try to eat veg with every meal and cook most things in bulk on a Sunday so I can just take it out of the fridge during the week.
    I carry fruit and home-made protein\porridge\flapjack bars around with me a lot of the time :o ( they're lovely though, the kids are even starting to like them)
    I eat lots of eggs ...similar to AMK, a second breakfast and again maybe an hour before going to bed.
    Homemade pasta dishes, curries, lasagna, stew are the staple of my diet but I do go crazy and get the odd takeaway...a little, sometimes.

    If I'm hungry , I eat, I'm always mindful that with 60+ miles each week, the body is usually trying to recover and rebuild...if that means grabbing a sandwich at a garage because I forgot to bring food then so be it.

    Wholegrains, fruits, nuts, lean meats, potatoes, veg, porridge, eggs, seeds, coconut oil for cooking...prepare as much as I can in bulk...eat lots and lots of it....water and tea....that kind of sums it up really

    EDIT - real peanut butter by the way, not that salty panda $hite


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    anyone want to start a thread on the main forum?! lots of good advice to be swapped around no doubt

    + 1 to the real peanut butter or this for better control on salt/sugar ratios..

    500g raw peanuts, preferably skin-on
    1 tbsp groundnut oil, preferably the semi-refined Chinese variety
    ½ tsp salt, or to taste
    1 tbsp honey, or to taste

    Heat the oven to 180C/350F/gas mark four and spread the nuts out in one layer on a baking tray. Roast for about 10-20 minutes until evenly browned. Allow to cool completely.

    Whiz in a food processor to coarse crumbs then, if making crunchy peanut butter, scoop out a quarter and set aside.

    With the motor running, add the oil, then whiz again, pausing to scrape down the sides if necessary, until you have a smooth, creamy texture. Add any flavourings and taste, then stir in the reserved nuts and spoon into a jar. It will keep in the fridge for a couple of months.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Duanington wrote: »
    Nutrition is something that I've just gotten into the habit of taking care of as the mileage has gone up over the last 12-18 months....while simultaneously pi$$ing of family\friends\GF !

    You're probably already well versed on all of this M and most of it is common sense but on the off chance that you might pick up something:

    I eat fruit, not dessert or sweets ( much to my GF's annoyance)
    I only run once per week on empty ( ideally I'd do this on my long run but can't because of the timing), usually my Saturday morning session is run on empty.
    I would normally have a post session smoothie with fruit, peanut butter and a bit of whey - I know people say its a waste of money but I do find the whey makes a difference. ( I only use it after sessions though)
    I snack a lot - fruit, berries, nuts, peanut butter on apple slices\bananas.
    I would usually carry a bottle of water around with me in work, sipping on it throughout the day but not guzzling gallons of the stuff either
    I try to eat veg with every meal and cook most things in bulk on a Sunday so I can just take it out of the fridge during the week.
    I carry fruit and home-made protein\porridge\flapjack bars around with me a lot of the time :o ( they're lovely though, the kids are even starting to like them)
    I eat lots of eggs ...similar to AMK, a second breakfast and again maybe an hour before going to bed.
    Homemade pasta dishes, curries, lasagna, stew are the staple of my diet but I do go crazy and get the odd takeaway...a little, sometimes.

    If I'm hungry , I eat, I'm always mindful that with 60+ miles each week, the body is usually trying to recover and rebuild...if that means grabbing a sandwich at a garage because I forgot to bring food then so be it.

    Wholegrains, fruits, nuts, lean meats, potatoes, veg, porridge, eggs, seeds, coconut oil for cooking...prepare as much as I can in bulk...eat lots and lots of it....water and tea....that kind of sums it up really

    EDIT - real peanut butter by the way, not that salty panda $hite


    Great post there that sums it up.

    Only thing I'd add there is Greek Yogurt/natural yogurt and cottage/feta cheese. all full fat varieties. Some people may turn their noses up at these but after a few days the taste buds adjust and there is nothing nicer for dessert than fresh fruit & Greek yogurt with a few nuts &/seeds sprinkled on top.

    Quinoa is another great protein source that you can add to any meal/salad

    Oatcakes is another great find for me and i use them for snacks every day (2 per portion) with cottage cheese/hummus or peanut butter/almond butter etc on them.

    If you can get your hands on any of the Cook books especially by athletes themselves (Derval O Rourkes & David Gillics are good) or any of the "Clean eating" books there are some great recipes in them.

    Cutting out sugar is tough for about 3 - 4 days and after that you are full of energy. Definitely worth doing!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    Younganne wrote: »

    Cutting out sugar is tough for about 3 - 4 days and after that you are full of energy. Definitely worth doing!

    It depends a bit on how far into the abyss you've gone as to how long it takes to get out. After a few false starts I more or less cut our refined sugar from my diet about 18 months ago. The bit that got me over the edge was cutting out fruit. It acted like a gateway drug for me. I made exceptions at Christmas and special occasions e.g. weddings. When I first cut it out it took a couple of months for the cravings to subside to the point where I wasn't craving it every day and on those occasions where I do consume sugar even if I don't overdo it by conventional standards it takes about 10 days for my body to settle down again.

    I've started eating an apple a day recently but as a general rule of thumb I think that vegetables are a much better option than fruit. It's my impression that they have a wider variety of vitamins and minerals.

    Otherwise I think that aiming to eat high quality food is a pretty good principle, the less processed the better. I think that the 20-30 minute window is good to observe if you're in heavy training but otherwise I wouldn't get too hung up about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,237 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Clearlier wrote: »
    The bit that got me over the edge was cutting out fruit.

    This is the confusing bit for me and I've not heard any 'proper' advice around the subject of fruit.
    Surely the benefits of fruit outweigh the natural occurring sugars??


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    This is the confusing bit for me and I've not heard any 'proper' advice around the subject of fruit.
    Surely the benefits of fruit outweigh the natural occurring sugars??

    My understanding of this is that sugar is sugar, the body doesn't know whether you're eating an apple or a bar of chocolate in that respect. Yes the apple contains other nutrients and fiber etc that the chocolate doesn't but clierlier is right, veg is a much better option. I try (and sometime succeed!) to eat 10 portions of 'fruit & veg' a day, only two of 10 are fruit, a baby apple (the bag of fun size ones you can get) and a mandrain orange. Its still sugar and while I continue to do this I'm not eating clean. Of course the chocolate I eat at the weekend is a complete disaster :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Clearlier


    This is the confusing bit for me and I've not heard any 'proper' advice around the subject of fruit.
    Surely the benefits of fruit outweigh the natural occurring sugars??

    I can't really go into the science behind (at least not without sounding stupid!) but (for me in my experience and experiment of one) the sugar that I got from fruit lead to an overwhelming desire for other sugars and before I knew it the chocolate/ice-cream etc. was being demolished. I found it much easier to resist when I also cut out fruit.

    I do think that a small amount of fruit is probably a good thing to eat hence why I've started eating apples again but when I chose to cut it out the choices that I felt I had were fruit + a half kilo of chocolate, tub of Ben & Jerry's and a pack of biscuits or none of it so I tried none of it and it worked for me. It absolutely might not be appropriate or work for others but I thought that I'd highlight that sugar cravings can last for more than 3-4 days just in case anyone trying it got disheartened after those 3 or 4 days and thought that the cravings would never go away.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭diego_b


    Clearlier wrote: »
    I can't really go into the science behind (at least not without sounding stupid!) but (for me in my experience and experiment of one) the sugar that I got from fruit lead to an overwhelming desire for other sugars and before I knew it the chocolate/ice-cream etc. was being demolished. I found it much easier to resist when I also cut out fruit.

    I do think that a small amount of fruit is probably a good thing to eat hence why I've started eating apples again but when I chose to cut it out the choices that I felt I had were fruit + a half kilo of chocolate, tub of Ben & Jerry's and a pack of biscuits or none of it so I tried none of it and it worked for me. It absolutely might not be appropriate or work for others but I thought that I'd highlight that sugar cravings can last for more than 3-4 days just in case anyone trying it got disheartened after those 3 or 4 days and thought that the cravings would never go away.

    Dr. Eva Orsmond was on with Marian Finucane at the weekend and she recommended no more than two portions of fruit a day due to the Fructose. She did recommend vegetables with every meal though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    Thanks for all the excellent feedback so far, Folks. There is a lot of good stuff in it. The core items I will take from it straight away are to cut out the sh*t (sorry TbL that includes Skittles :p) and don't let the "magic" window close without give the body something to help recovery.

    I am a self confessed chocoholic and do some fair damage on the caffeine front too.....well you can't have one without the other it just wouldn't be right.

    So in the context of baby steps the first thing I will address is the post-run routine and the double breakfast option. The low hanging fruit per say. Next I will focus on rebalancing the diet and minimising or if needs be dumping the junk.

    My youngest has just received a copy of Roz Purcell's Book"Natural Born Feeder" for her birthday so I am pretty sure my diet in about to be changed for me anyway.

    It would indeed be good to get a wider discussion going on this and I will look into it this eve. If a wider discussion does get going but gets derailed as can happen sometimes feel free to come back here with any views, ideas or using tips on this topic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭Myles Splitz


    FBOT01 wrote: »
    Thanks for all the excellent feedback so far, Folks. There is a lot of good stuff in it. The core items I will take from it straight away are to cut out the sh*t (sorry TbL that includes Skittles :p) and don't let the "magic" window close without give the body something to help recovery.

    I am a self confessed chocoholic and do some fair damage on the caffeine front too.....well you can't have one without the other it just wouldn't be right.

    So in the context of baby steps the first thing I will address is the post-run routine and the double breakfast option. The low hanging fruit per say. Next I will focus on rebalancing the diet and minimising or if needs be dumping the junk.

    My youngest has just received a copy of Roz Purcell's Book"Natural Born Feeder" for her birthday so I am pretty sure my diet in about to be changed for me anyway.

    It would indeed be good to get a wider discussion going on this and I will look into it this eve. If a wider discussion does get going but gets derailed as can happen sometimes feel free to come back here with any views, ideas or using tips on this topic.


    There a great post here regarding starting point for nutrient dense types of foods

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63214469&postcount=26


    Start trying to focus on doing small things right and the rest will fall into place.

    This is also a great recipe generator for simple idea's to keep things fresh

    https://www.eatthismuch.com/


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭Myles Splitz


    This is the confusing bit for me and I've not heard any 'proper' advice around the subject of fruit.
    Surely the benefits of fruit outweigh the natural occurring sugars??

    Depends on the goal

    If you are looking for the vitamins etc to balance your diet then yes.

    If you are looking from a weight loss perspective spiking blood sugars will cause cravings so should probably be avoided and the vitamins supplemented.

    Personally I can't snack on fruit because I end up just as hungry or worse. Tend to have my fruit as part of a meal ( with porridge in morning and a bit of protein, as a smoothie with protein or with a wrap etc at lunch)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    Here's an article for those interested about the benefits of eating fruit, despite the fructose content ... the real danger is 'fruit drinks' or juice which has the sugar without the fibre etc.

    http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/making-the-case-for-eating-fruit/?_r=0

    The best food advice I ever came across is from Michael Pollan, who writes about eating food your granny would recognise as food, etc.

    He sums it up in seven words: Eat food*, not too much, mostly plants.

    *i.e., real food... anything you buy with more than 4 ingredients on the label he doesn't count as food.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    God I'm starving reading all that !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    Mrs Mc wrote: »
    God I'm starving reading all that !

    Off to binge on junk food and coke :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭aquinn


    annapr wrote: »
    Off to binge on junk food and coke :p

    I went for a curly wurly myself. No great shock that Wed weigh-in didn't go so well. Another lb gained.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    aquinn wrote: »
    I went for a curly wurly myself. No great shock that Wed weigh-in didn't go so well. Another lb gained.

    You just homed in on the wrong post, A. Wednesday weigh-in went fine here after my Quinoa Pizza last night :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    FBOT01 wrote: »
    You just homed in on the wrong post, A. Wednesday weigh-in went fine here after my Quinoa Pizza last night :)

    Recipe?! I can't cook that bloody stuff, have tried and always make a pigs ear of it... more practice perhaps!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    Firedance wrote: »
    Recipe?! I can't cook that bloody stuff, have tried and always make a pigs ear of it... more practice perhaps!

    put less water than it states on the packet, and add spices to give it more flavour, I love it cold with salads!!:p and i use it as replacement for pasta or rice sometimes

    most of Roz Purcels recipes are available on naturalbornfeeder.com


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭HelenAnne


    If people refuel with chocolate milk (delicious!) after a long run, do they then cut that amount of calories out of the next meal? I feel when I have something like that straight after a run (rarely, as I only have it after long runs and I haven't done a long run in ages :(), that I just eat as normal after as well, so maybe that's too many extra calories.
    Also, when people say 'avoid sugar', does that mean reading the labels of everything (cereals / cream crackers / oatcakes etc) or just avoiding obviously sugary things like sweet treats / sugary cereals / tomato sauce in a jar etc?
    I get v anxious when I think about needing to stick to a strict running diet and watch everything I eat, but what FBOT is saying about repairing muscles etc makes sense, and probably helps prevent injury, so maybe I'll start doing it ...
    FBOT - I presume your diet questions / ruminations above are about trying to eat enough calories / good calories because you run so much. Any tips for making sure someone isn't eating too much, while still not being too hungry to run (so the opposite question to yours, really)? (PS I am not giving up my post-parkrun scone!!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭HelenAnne


    Younganne wrote: »
    put less water than it states on the packet, and add spices to give it more flavour, I love it cold with salads!!:p and i use it as replacement for pasta or rice sometimes

    most of Roz Purcels recipes are available on naturalbornfeeder.com

    PS I love quinoa too. It's so filling! David Gillick came to my house and showed me how to make it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    HelenAnne wrote: »
    PS I love quinoa too. It's so filling! David Gillick came to my house and showed me how to make it.

    Look at you and "me mate Dave dropped in to help me with me cooking".....name dropper :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    FBOT01 wrote: »
    Look at you and "me mate Dave dropped in to help me with me cooking".....name dropper :p

    And not even a tip for the rest of us either!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    HelenAnne wrote: »
    If people refuel with chocolate milk (delicious!) after a long run, do they then cut that amount of calories out of the next meal? I feel when I have something like that straight after a run (rarely, as I only have it after long runs and I haven't done a long run in ages :(), that I just eat as normal after as well, so maybe that's too many extra calories.
    Also, when people say 'avoid sugar', does that mean reading the labels of everything (cereals / cream crackers / oatcakes etc) or just avoiding obviously sugary things like sweet treats / sugary cereals / tomato sauce in a jar etc?
    I get v anxious when I think about needing to stick to a strict running diet and watch everything I eat, but what FBOT is saying about repairing muscles etc makes sense, and probably helps prevent injury, so maybe I'll start doing it ...
    FBOT - I presume your diet questions / ruminations above are about trying to eat enough calories / good calories because you run so much. Any tips for making sure someone isn't eating too much, while still not being too hungry to run (so the opposite question to yours, really)? (PS I am not giving up my post-parkrun scone!!)

    I don't know anyone who is training pretty regularly that eats too much it is usually the other way around. I would certainly not calorie count or label check and the big issue for me is to get the right mix and cut out the crap.

    I would certainly not reduce due to any post run recovery drinks or snacks as I would generally need them and more.

    As an overall check I do a Wednesday weigh in ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 595 ✭✭✭rooneyjm


    I have the results of a study somewhere, they concluded a glass of milk (normal) and a banana performed no worse than flavored milk or any fancy recovery drinks. Come in off your long run banana and milk down the hatch into the shower, no messing with shakes or trying to hide chocolate milk from the kids. "No kids thats daddy's special drink".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭HelenAnne


    FBOT01 wrote: »
    I don't know anyone who is training pretty regularly that eats too much it is usually the other way around. I would certainly not calorie count or label check and the big issue for me is to get the right mix and cut out the crap.

    I would certainly not reduce due to any post run recovery drinks or snacks as I would generally need them and more.

    As an overall check I do a Wednesday weigh in ;)

    Well, my downfall is big portions I think. I need to eat a bit less so there's less of me to drag up hills / lift out of the sucking muck of xc etc 😀. My one concession to watching what I eat at the moment is avoiding the biscuit tin in work, but my weekly weigh ins are telling me I went a bit mad on holidays in France, so I am trying to cut back a bit, but suppose I should still eat something after a run. How soon would you eat after a speed session where the actual mileage isn't high but the effort is? Straight away or wait till you get home / cook dinner etc?
    Also, none of you are getting my David Gillick tips - I won them fair and square!! (Only joking, ask me for his tips on anything and I will try to remember).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭HelenAnne


    rooneyjm wrote: »
    I have the results of a study somewhere, they concluded a glass of milk (normal) and a banana performed no worse than flavored milk or any fancy recovery drinks. Come in off your long run banana and milk down the hatch into the shower, no messing with shakes or trying to hide chocolate milk from the kids. "No kids thats daddy's special drink".

    Sadly I hate milk, but love choc milk!! But usually I just have a yoghurt. All my choc milk talk is just wishful thinking.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    rooneyjm wrote: »
    I have the results of a study somewhere, they concluded a glass of milk (normal) and a banana performed no worse than flavored milk or any fancy recovery drinks. Come in off your long run banana and milk down the hatch into the shower, no messing with shakes or trying to hide chocolate milk from the kids. "No kids thats daddy's special drink".

    Cheers RJM. Funny you said that as that is actually what I have started back doing since last week after sessions and long runs.

    I remember when I was teenager and doing some gym work we used to drink milk as a recovery on the basis that it had all you needed and if you wanted to add a bit of extra kick into it you would break in a raw egg and throw a spoonful of sugar. Simple but affective.

    PS....obviously I am not recommending the sugar bit :o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    HelenAnne wrote: »
    Sadly I hate milk, but love choc milk!! But usually I just have a yoghurt. All my choc milk talk is just wishful thinking.

    Add some mixed nuts to that yoghurt and Bob's your uncle .

    Current advice is protein within 20 mins of hard session or long run


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭Younganne


    HelenAnne wrote: »
    Well, my downfall is big portions I think. I need to eat a bit less so there's less of me to drag up hills / lift out of the sucking muck of xc etc 😀. My one concession to watching what I eat at the moment is avoiding the biscuit tin in work, but my weekly weigh ins are telling me I went a bit mad on holidays in France, so I am trying to cut back a bit, but suppose I should still eat something after a run. How soon would you eat after a speed session where the actual mileage isn't high but the effort is? Straight away or wait till you get home / cook dinner etc?
    Also, none of you are getting my David Gillick tips - I won them fair and square!! (Only joking, ask me for his tips on anything and I will try to remember).

    To help reduce my portion sizes, I moved to a smaller plate. its simple but effective. The mind is a funny thing, full (smaller) plate registers full belly, half filled big dinner plate registers not enough food, go for more!

    I always have a banana after a session and long runs with some peanut butter on an oatcake!! Then shower & then usually eggs of some sort!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    It’s been a while since I updated but there has been little to report. With the Belfast 24hr relay being next on my agenda at the end of June I have been happy out just getting in plenty of easy runs with as many as possible on grass. While hips are far from sorted they don’t complain too much when I keep the pace easy and the run duration below 2 hrs. I have been running consistently but have not been as dedicated as I need to be with the exercises. This remains a key limiter for me.

    Belfast 24 will involving running 3x2hr legs during the 24hrs with 6hr breaks between each. To train for this I decided I should be doing as many double days as possible to get the body used to a quicker turnaround between runs than has been the norm in the past.

    w/c 23/05/2016

    Total Miles : 74.2m
    Number of double days : 5
    Number of rest days : 1
    Longest single run : 12.8m


    One session in the Company of Ferris and Murph. 10m including 3x1m at 10m pace (06:11/06:11/06:03). This session should have been 5k pace but was happy enough not to force it and just went with comfortable hard.

    w/c 30/5/2016

    Total Miles : 64.1m
    Number of double days : 4
    Number of rest days : 1
    Longest single run : 15.1m


    St Anne’s parkrun on Saturday 4th turned out to be my “session” for this week. Ran it as a progression run with a target of mile 1 Sub 8, mile 2 Sub 7 and mile 3 sub 6. Mile 1 was fine at 07:31 and mile 2 came in at 06:58 so just had a sub 6 to deliver. Wasn’t feeling the love for this until with about 800 to go I spotted Killerz up ahead pushing the double buggy. I hadn’t seen him beforehand and didn’t know that he was running but now that I saw him I couldn’t just sit back  There was going to no glory on beating him after all he was pushing twins in a double buggy and probably had 10m done before parkrun but there would be plenty of stick on offer if I was that close and didn’t. Not leaving anything to chance I hit the accelerated and passed him at pace before the final hill. If you are going to do it you might as well as get on with it. I never looked back or taught about taking my foot of the accelerator as buggy or no buggy if he had have been in touching distance of me after the hill he’d have been a hard man to beat…….so no glory but no stick and a decent workout ;)

    Finish off the week with the first of the holiday runs in Croatia.

    w/c 6/6/2016 (Holidays in Croatia)

    Total Miles : 51.6m
    Number of double days : 2
    Number of rest days : 1
    Longest single run : 12m


    All in all not a bad week for a holiday week with daytime temperatures in the high 20s every day. Some lovely runs in some lovely place. All easy and mostly enjoyable ;) There were day that the heat really sucked the life out of me and even with AC sleep was less than ideal but sure that holidays for you!!!


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