Jose Mourinho, the new manager of Manchester United

JakeArmitage · 22-05-2016 11:14AM

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

"The "XXXXX Club" Way" is a load of old bollox though, it doesn't mean a damn thing.

Now, if Liverpool and, to a lesser extent, City fans are to believed, United have been the worst of the worst since forever anyway, so it's bloody hilarious to see these people hand-wringing and being all concerned about the club appointing Mourinho as manager.

Yeah lads, it's just awful isn't it. The club you hold in such high regard is appointing a manager you can't fúcking stand.

Good.

Their worried

JakeArmitage · 22-05-2016 11:20AM

Andre 3000 wrote: »

To be fair to United, didn't Chelsea give the boot to Di Matteo after he won the Champions League.

And how many points were City from Leicester when they announced Guardiola was coming? Pellagrini was a goner even if they had won the league

Andersonisgod · 22-05-2016 11:23AM

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

While its touching to see the concern our rivals have for the club losing their way, appointing Jose wouldn't be "the United way", etc I've quoted a post below from LTSC that pretty much nails it.

People are commenting that Jose would ruin the club, leave it in 3 years in tatters, so lets break down Jose's managerial record to date.

In two and a half years at Porto the club won the CL, the EL, Portuguese Cup and two league titles. Not a bad record and he left on good terms, not a tatter in sight.

He joined Chelsea and in his first spell they won two leagues, the FA cup and two league cups. In 3 and a bit years. Not a bad record.

He left because he fell out with Roman and the constant meddling in on pitch matters and transfers, the signing of Shevchenko being a prime example. Again, no tatters in sight.

Inter. In two years he won two league titles, the CL and the Italian cup. Not a bad record, left on good terms take the helm at Madrid. Still no tatters.

Madrid. The biggest circus in world football. A club that had 8 different managers in the 6 years before he took over. To even last 3 years in that job is an achievement in itself. Less success there but they still managed a league title and a Spanish cup. Not a bad record. Yet where are these tatters?

Chelsea again, a league title and a league cup in two years. Pretty decent. So now there are a few tatters alright. He behaved deplorably with the doctor and if you believe what you read, that caused players to down tools due to it. I don't know if its true or not, nor do I care.

So what do we have.

An out and out winner, proven time and time again.

Yes, some of his carry on has been terrible, the incident above, the eye gouging while in Madrid, his obsession with driving Wenger round the twist is weird but his abilities cannot be understated.

People fawn over the likes of Pep. He's had two jobs, one for 4 years and one for 3. Not exactly long term Vs Jose.

Carlo Ancellotti last 3 jobs have lasted only 2 years, less than or equal to any of Jose's appointments.

Would anyone use the "he will leave the club in less than 3 years" as a stick to beat either of the above?

No, I don't believe they would.

But Jose gets guff about the lengths of tenure he has had.

Mourinho would bring the fear factor back to United because since Fergies departure every team that comes to OT fancies getting something from the game.

And going by many non United fans reactions and comments, there is a fear factor there before he has even gotten the job.

I used to absolutely hate Wenger and Arsenal, when they were a threat, nowadays they are not so I pay no heed to them.

I hated Jose during his first spell at Chelsea, because they were winners because of him.

When you are successful you will be hated by some sections, that is true in every walk of life.

The board have bottled things since Fergie left, Jose should have gotten the job then. Hopefully they have finally seen sense. Whether he stays for 3 years or more is moot, though I have a suspicion that he would want to build a legacy at United, he idolises Fergie so its not that big a leap to think he would want to emulate his idols achievements.

Hopefully it does happen and even if it is only for 3 years, there will be success in those three years. Soccer is a results game, and Jose gets results, that's more than enough for most fans.

A coach of the past I think. To be very honest I think Man City, Liverpool and Spurs have the better coaches and 2 of those clubs have the advantage of those managers having had time already at their respective clubs. Maybe in 2008 or even 2010 this would have been like one of the biggest things to ever happen in the Premier League but not now.

DARK-KNIGHT · 22-05-2016 11:26AM

SALT AND LEMONS EVERYWHERE

THE SPECIAL ONE HAS LANDED

Alfred Borden · 22-05-2016 11:29AM

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

SALT AND LEMONS EVERYWHERE

THE SPECIAL ONE HAS LANDED

That was for a few months ago when City got Pep. Mourinho isnt a bad runners up prize.

Andersonisgod · 22-05-2016 11:32AM

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

SALT AND LEMONS EVERYWHERE

THE SPECIAL ONE HAS LANDED

Mate you're confusing salt and lemons with cold, hard logic. His last 2 jobs have been far from overwhelming successes. In both cases he left under a black cloud with the players of the respective clubs euphoric to see the back of him. In that time he won 1 Spanish league (a paltry return considering the money spent on that squad and the unprecedented control granted to him) and 1 English league. Meanwhile in Europe he's been comprehensively outclassed by coached with far more limited resources like Klopp and Simeone, even the PSG tie Chelsea went out with a whimper when the aim was to build a squad capable of challenging the elite for European glory. The days of Mourinho's triumph with Inter are over, he's changed as a coach and football too has changed.

Flint Fredstone · 22-05-2016 11:35AM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Wonder how many Utd supporters are now 100% paid up backers of Mourinho but hated him and his ways of doing things a year ago.

I wouldn't have wanted him anywhere near the club a year ago. A 4th place finish followed by a 5th can really make you take stock of what is needed in a manager.

PhlegmyMoses · 22-05-2016 11:35AM

Just as an FYI, he isn't actually our mananget yet

Let's save some of this for when he is actually announced.

Liam McPoyle · 22-05-2016 11:35AM

Andersonisgod wrote: »

A coach of the past I think. To be very honest I think Man City, Liverpool and Spurs have the better coaches and 2 of those clubs have the advantage of those managers having had time already at their respective clubs. Maybe in 2008 or even 2010 this would have been like one of the biggest things to ever happen in the Premier League but not now.

Time with tell of course but he has proven himself time and again so I'd be more confident of him getting a title with United before Klopp or Poch.

Pep is somewhat of an unknown quantity and the City job is going to be a helluva lot tougher than either of his previous roles. He walked into the best teams and the biggest draw for players in the leagues, City are neither the best team and not even close to being the biggest draw so it will make for some entertainment if nothing else.

Dave0301 · 22-05-2016 11:39AM

Andersonisgod wrote: »

A coach of the past I think. To be very honest I think Man City, Liverpool and Spurs have the better coaches and 2 of those clubs have the advantage of those managers having had time already at their respective clubs. Maybe in 2008 or even 2010 this would have been like one of the biggest things to ever happen in the Premier League but not now.

Your hard on for Pep blinds you to how good a coach Mourinho is. Don't get me wrong, he can be abrasive and crass, but he has had success at every club he has been at, and I expect it to happen again at United.

brinty · 22-05-2016 11:45AM

Saul T Nutzz wrote:

Pep is somewhat of an unknown quantity and the City job is going to be a helluva lot tougher than either of his previous roles. He walked into the best teams and the biggest draw for players in the leagues, City are neither the best team and not even close to being the biggest draw so it will make for some entertainment if nothing else.

Nail on the head
Pep has a huge job at Citeh this summer, a lot of older players to clear out,a bloated and unbalanced squad, an aging defence.. and he's not got a great transfer history.
Bayern buy their own players and the coach plays them in his system,Pep will have to do both now.. it'll be interesting to see how he gets on..

Andersonisgod · 22-05-2016 11:45AM

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Time with tell of course but he has proven himself time and again so I'd be more confident of him getting a title with United before Klopp or Poch.

Pep is somewhat of an unknown quantity and the City job is going to be a helluva lot tougher than either of his previous roles. He walked into the best teams and the biggest draw for players in the leagues, City are neither the best team and not even close to being the biggest draw so it will make for some entertainment if nothing else.

Before I get going on this I'm not going to do the Pep debate thing again. I've had it a million times on this forum, I've made my points very clear. He didn't walk into the best squad at Barcelona, the context is entirely incorrect, he walked into a squad that was quite a way off Real Madrid and had just lost a semi final to Man Utd without scoring a goal over 2 legs. His work was crucial in making that squad the best. I won't go further than that because otherwise this thread will turn into something it shouldn't be.

He has proven himself but you could make the argument, quite well too, that his last successful job ended in 2010, 6 years ago and since then he's failed with 2 clubs with crazy resources. Even more alarming has been how those 2 sides failed in Europe, in each campaign his teams looked like cheap copies of teams from a bygone era over matched by modern sides with far more solutions. See Real Madrid vs Barcelona, Real Madrid vs Borrussia Dortmund, Chelsea vs Atletico Madrid, Chelsea vs PSG. Where previously Mourinho was renowned for getting the right results in key games, more and more his teams have had to resort to total and complete defence, his Inter side certainly offered more than that in their pomp. Maybe this break will have done him good, the emotional turmoil of his Real Madrid reign has done untold damage, he's clearly needed time off so let's see how this plays out.

Andersonisgod · 22-05-2016 11:49AM

Dave0301 wrote: »

Your hard on for Pep blinds you to how good a coach Mourinho is. Don't get me wrong, he can be abrasive and crass, but he has had success at every club he has been at, and I expect it to happen again at United.

Success is relative. By the way it doesn't, I make no secret of my admiration for Pep, his proactive philosophy of football, his relationship with players, his ability to make players better footballers, and the solutions he offers his teams make him, in my mind, the best coach in the world. My admiration of Pep though doesn't have a huge bearing on my opinion of Mourinho because Pep is not the only coach I compare Mourinho to. As you will see know my last post, it's not only against Pep's teams that Mourinho's latest sides have looked so prehistoric.

PhlegmyMoses · 22-05-2016 11:52AM

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Before I get going on this I'm not going to do the Pep debate thing again. I've had it a million times on this forum, I've made my points very clear. He didn't walk into the best squad at Barcelona, the context is entirely incorrect, he walked into a squad that was quite a way off Real Madrid and had just lost a semi final to Man Utd without scoring a goal over 2 legs. His work was crucial in making that squad the best. I won't go further than that because otherwise this thread will turn into something it shouldn't be.

He has proven himself but you could make the argument, quite well too, that his last successful job ended in 2010, 6 years ago and since then he's failed with 2 clubs with crazy resources. Even more alarming has been how those 2 sides failed in Europe, in each campaign his teams looked like cheap copies of teams from a bygone era over matched by modern sides with far more solutions. See Real Madrid vs Barcelona, Real Madrid vs Borrussia Dortmund, Chelsea vs Atletico Madrid, Chelsea vs PSG. Where previously Mourinho was renowned for getting the right results in key games, more and more his teams have had to resort to total and complete defence, his Inter side certainly offered more than that in their pomp. Maybe this break will have done him good, the emotional turmoil of his Real Madrid reign has done untold damage, he's clearly needed time off so let's see how this plays out.

Pep walked into a side that lost in a CL semi against the second best side of that era. Jaysus, he had it tough alright

brinty · 22-05-2016 11:55AM

PhlegmyMoses wrote:

Pep walked into a side that lost in a CL semi against the second best side of that era. Jaysus, he had it tough alright

Exactly
Hardly a huge rebuild he'd to do with Narcs which he will have with Citeh
And he took over Bayern fresh after they won the champions League.. and failed to get them back to a final..

Andersonisgod · 22-05-2016 11:55AM

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Pep walked into a side that lost in a CL semi against the second best side of that era. Jaysus, he had it tough alright

Again I won't go into it in detail because I'm on a phone and rattling off a few thousand words on the subject would be challenging. Anyone who was a fan of Barcelona or even a regular viewer of Spanish football at the time know what Pep meant to that that, to the club. There was Cruyff, then there was Pep, without those 2 Barcelona would not be the club it is right now.

This thread though isn't about Pep, it's about Mourinho, a subject I'm equally apt at discussing so fire away.

Blatter · 22-05-2016 11:56AM

Andersonisgod wrote: »

He has proven himself but you could make the argument, quite well too, that his last successful job ended in 2010, 6 years ago and since then he's failed with 2 clubs with crazy resources. Even more alarming has been how those 2 sides failed in Europe, in each campaign his teams looked like cheap copies of teams from a bygone era over matched by modern sides with far more solutions. See Real Madrid vs Barcelona, Real Madrid vs Borrussia Dortmund ...

You are putting quite the negative slant on his time at Real Madrid there. Did you not have an entirely different view on that period around the time he rejoined Chelsea in 2013?

IIRC, you thought that it was not possible a club could have a better manager than Jose Mourinho.

22-05-2016 11:57AM

Korat wrote: »

I hated Mourinho as Chelsea manager. It was pure jealousy. This bunch of relegation regulars had a Russian billionaire chucking money at them, while we were being bled dry by the Glazer parasites, and now they had a manager capable of turning that money into success.

A lot of the anti-Mourinho propaganda about negative football and not giving young players a chance that gets chucked around now originated mostly from Utd fans during his first spell at Chelsea. Hands up we did it!

The truth is he's the 2nd best manager English football has ever seen and we really should have appointed him after the best retired.

:rolleyes:

I think Bob Paisley may have something to say about that if he were alive....then again football was invented in 1992 of course

StringerBell · 22-05-2016 12:00PM

LVG "It's over."

Dave0301 · 22-05-2016 12:00PM

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Success is relative. By the way it doesn't, I make no secret of my admiration for Pep, his proactive philosophy of football, his relationship with players, his ability to make players better footballers, and the solutions he offers his teams make him, in my mind, the best coach in the world. My admiration of Pep though doesn't have a huge bearing on my opinion of Mourinho because Pep is not the only coach I compare Mourinho to. As you will see know my last post, it's not only against Pep's teams that Mourinho's latest sides have looked so prehistoric.

I don't want to get drawn into a Pep vs Mourinho debate, but the stick you use to beat Mourinho with in terms of his European failures can be applied to Pep's time at Bayern Munich in so far that he had no solutions for the teams that knocked them out.

The idea that Mourinho won't be successful at United does not tie in with his record, and so there is no reason to doubt that it won't happen again.

The poster that compared him to Ferguson in regards to his desire to win was spot on imo.

Andersonisgod · 22-05-2016 12:02PM

Blatter wrote: »

You are putting quite the negative slant on his time at Real Madrid there. Did you not have an entirely different view on that period around the time he rejoined Chelsea in 2013?

IIRC, you thought that it was not possible a club could have a better manager than Jose Mourinho.

I'm putting a realistic slant on it, I'm giving you the viewpoint that is the prevailing one amongst many Madrid fans and a lot of the players that played under him.

Absolutely, a guy who was such a roaring success first time around, who'd gone and gained experience working in Italy and Spain. I expected a more rounded coach, more knowledgeable, wiser and less combustible. I can't tell you how disappointed I was with his time at Chelsea. There was that one game against Man City away where we pressed them ultra aggressively and legitimately played them off the pitch and that was it, one game where you saw a flash of genius. Did he improve any of the players? Did he offer a multitude of solutions? Was there anything innovative about his work? Worse still, far from being a wiser coach, he came back a paranoid wreck who poisoned the dressing room, just as he had done at Madrid. It's become a cliché but I believe it rings true, his time at Madrid damaged him far more than he'll ever admit.

Johner · 22-05-2016 12:06PM

Mourinho will have United challenging again next season, now they might not win the league straight away but the recovery will be well on it's way. He's been a success where ever he has gone and I doubt that's going to change now.

JakeArmitage · 22-05-2016 12:07PM

http://www.skysports.com/iframe/widget/video/pkMzZuMzE6CV6HYSM9Q1ZMmXnJsTiP3M#ooid=pkMzZuMzE6CV6HYSM9Q1ZMmXnJsTiP3M

Andersonisgod · 22-05-2016 12:07PM

Dave0301 wrote: »

I don't want to get drawn into a Pep vs Mourinho debate, but the stick you use to beat Mourinho with in terms of his European failures can be applied to Pep's time at Bayern Munich in so far that he had no solutions for the teams that knocked them out.

The idea that Mourinho won't be successful at United does not tie in with his record, and so there is no reason to doubt that it won't happen again.

The poster that compared him to Ferguson in regards to his desire to win was spot on imo.

Again I also don't want to get drawn into that debate because there are other coaches in England alone that I'd currently compare favourably to Mourinho. The first year Pep blamed himself, 2nd year it was Barcelona with MSN and him with a Bayern team that had literally no wingers. Against Atletico that 2nd leg bordered on perfect, I really don't want to go into detail because I know that last one will be disputed as it was on another thread where I already put forward an argument in regards that match and I am trying my very best not to take this thread off topic because nobody needs to see me discuss Pep Guardiola again.

I think his campaigns at the last 2 clubs do throw some doubt on it though. Not only that but I'd say this Man Utd side are in worse shape than the Real Madrid or Chelsea teams he took over.

Blatter · 22-05-2016 12:10PM

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I'm putting a realistic slant on it, I'm giving you the viewpoint that is the prevailing one amongst many Madrid fans and a lot of the players that played under him.

Absolutely, a guy who was such a roaring success first time around, who'd gone and gained experience working in Italy and Spain. I expected a more rounded coach, more knowledgeable, wiser and less combustible. I can't tell you how disappointed I was with his time at Chelsea. There was that one game against Man City away where we pressed them ultra aggressively and legitimately played them off the pitch and that was it, one game where you saw a flash of genius. Did he improve any of the players? Did he offer a multitude of solutions? Was there anything innovative about his work? Worse still, far from being a wiser coach, he came back a paranoid wreck who poisoned the dressing room, just as he had done at Madrid. It's become a cliché but I believe it rings true, his time at Madrid damaged him far more than he'll ever admit.

Your views on his time at Chelsea post 2013 are fair but not relevant to the post you quoted.

The point I was making is that you were happy to give much credit to Mourinho as a coach and for his work at Madrid a few years ago whilst now you are happy to label that period in his career an outright failure.

If that is not a classic case of revisionism, what is?

keith16 · 22-05-2016 12:36PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Wonder how many Utd supporters are now 100% paid up backers of Mourinho but hated him and his ways of doing things a year ago.

People who hold that line of thinking clearly are not to be taken seriously.

In the same way, those who point and laugh at those people (real or imagined), and use it as a stick to beat the club and the fans, should also have their credibility called into question.

gormdubhgorm · 22-05-2016 12:37PM

JM probably will be new manager but I think that LVG should be given another year he has finally got a settled team and brought in young players as well.
JM will just rip it up the teamand f**k off after a couple of years.

gormdubhgorm · 22-05-2016 12:40PM

Deleted User wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I think Bob Paisley may have something to say about that if he were alive....then again football was invented in 1992 of course

Clough surely!?
Paisley had the groundwork done for him by Shankly.

Korat · 22-05-2016 12:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I think Bob Paisley may have something to say about that if he were alive....then again football was invented in 1992 of course

With the greatest of respect Paisley carried on from what Shankly had built, or is that not true?

Ferguson and Mourinho built teams up from nothing more than once and with different teams. Unless you want to write Shankly out of Liverpool's most successful period then Paisley's achievements, as great as they were, don't quite match up to Ferguson and Mourinho imo.

Too Tough To Die · 22-05-2016 01:18PM

Korat wrote: »

With the greatest of respect Paisley carried on from what Shankly had built, or is that not true?

Ferguson and Mourinho built teams up from nothing more than once and with different teams. Unless you want to write Shankly out of Liverpool's most successful period then Paisley's achievements, as great as they were, don't quite match up to Ferguson and Mourinho imo.

What teams has Mourinho built up 'from nothing'?

Jose Mourinho, the new manager of Manchester United

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