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1700 average in Sandyford for 2 bed?

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    #32
    SarahMollie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭SarahMollie


    jayjay2010 wrote: »
    1700 rent for a 2 bed in Sandyford sounds reasonable to me. The apartments in Dundrum (Rockfield/Blackthorn) are around the same price and they are beside a shopping centre and closer to town. I would choose them over Sandyford tbh

    I don't know much about Blackthorn but I've viewed in Rockfield previously and found the apartments small and awkwardly shaped.

    I've a few colleagues living in Sandyford and they all say their appartments are well proportioned, and certainly more modern than Rockfield.

    I agree that Dundrum is a better area in terms of amenities etc, but personally knowing how congested it gets around christmas would put me off a bit.


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    #33
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    Is Sandyford not in two parts? - kind of the industrial/office area beside the Beacon and then the more residential area near the actual village of Sandyford itself? I am looking to move there (currently selling a place elsewhere and need that to sell first) but I like the fact that the residential areas are within walking distance to the Luas and there seems to be loads there..gyms, shops, schools, even a par 3 golf course etc.? Like Aikens Village or Belarmine or Belmont.

    For me, the big thing is the Luas as my new job will be city centre. And being close to the M50 is only going to be a positive as I will be travelling west for a while at the start so to me the location is perfect. It seems buying in the area is cheaper than renting at the moment so that's what I am planning to do. A two bed for €1700 seems madness to me. Surely a two bed or even a three bed would be cheaper to own than that.


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    #34
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Oaklynn High Gorilla wrote: »
    A two bed for €1700 seems madness to me. Surely a two bed or even a three bed would be cheaper to own than that.

    Two beds in the Cubes which are going for 1700/month cost around 350k. Sure, your mortgage is going to be less than that but not everyone wants to commit to living there long term, or has the 50-70k deposit and the income requirements to buy at that level. Maybe they can however stretch to 850/month and rent with someone else if they want to live in the area.

    Anyway, the mortgage for the 350k with 50k deposit is around 1400 and would easily be another 100/month for management fees (probably more). It's not that much of a saving for such a high bar to entry.


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    #35
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Two beds in the Cubes which are going for 1700/month cost around 350k. Sure, your mortgage is going to be less than that but not everyone wants to commit to living there long term, or has the 50-70k deposit and the income requirements to buy at that level. Maybe they can however stretch to 850/month and rent with someone else if they want to live in the area.

    Anyway, the mortgage for the 350k with 50k deposit is around 1400 and would easily be another 100/month for management fees (probably more). It's not that much of a saving for such a high bar to entry.

    I'm not looking in the cubes. That's the middle of the office/industrial zone anyway. I am looking at the residential area and you'd easily get a 3 bed for the €300k ballpark, which works out substantially less than renting, even considering the management fees. But I see your point re: the deposit. I'm not a first time buyer so need 20% but for a first time buyer who had a small deposit it would make much more sense to buy than rent...and then rent out a room or two. They'd nearly end up in profit!


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    #36
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,259 ✭✭✭markpb


    Oaklynn High Gorilla wrote: »
    you'd easily get a 3 bed for the €300k ballpark, which works out substantially less than renting

    What 3 beds are being sold for 300k? The only ones I can find are in Simon's Ridge (Rockview, Sandyford View) which isn't convenient for Luas, sits in between two traffic jams on the morning and redefines the word windswept.


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    #37
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Oaklynn High Gorilla wrote: »
    I'm not looking in the cubes. That's the middle of the office/industrial zone anyway. I am looking at the residential area and you'd easily get a 3 bed for the €300k ballpark, which works out substantially less than renting, even considering the management fees. But I see your point re: the deposit. I'm not a first time buyer so need 20% but for a first time buyer who had a small deposit it would make much more sense to buy than rent...and then rent out a room or two. They'd nearly end up in profit!

    I'm comparing like with like. 2 beds south of the M50 are around 1500/month and then you're saving even less on the mortgage.

    This reasoning of buying because it's cheaper than renting is dangerously close to the advice during the boom. The rent is inflated at the moment due to lack of supply but basing your buying on that would be unwise.


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    #38
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    markpb wrote: »
    What 3 beds are being sold for 300k? The only ones I can find are in Simon's Ridge (Rockview, Sandyford View) which isn't convenient for Luas, sits in between two traffic jams on the morning and redefines the word windswept.

    Has seen a few recently (apartments) in Aikens Village. Viewed a lovely three bed there for €285k. Was fabulous with 3 double bedrooms. Didn't put a bid on as wasn't sure with regards new job situation at that point. It's gone now anyway...expect it went for more than the €285k anyway but it wouldn't have jumped to €350k! It was walking distance to the Luas (I came from city centre via the Luas walking to go to the viewing). So am keeping eyes peeled in that area. There are other places like Bracken Hill and Ticknock too at the minute but they don't appeal to me as much as I want to be able to use the Luas into town. But I think the €350k is way off the mark pricewise unless you are living in The Cubes, which I won't be.


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    #39
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Oaklynn High Gorilla wrote: »
    Is Sandyford not in two parts? - kind of the industrial/office area beside the Beacon and then the more residential area near the actual village of Sandyford itself? I am looking to move there (currently selling a place elsewhere and need that to sell first) but I like the fact that the residential areas are within walking distance to the Luas and there seems to be loads there..gyms, shops, schools, even a par 3 golf course etc.? Like Aikens Village or Belarmine or Belmont.

    For me, the big thing is the Luas as my new job will be city centre. And being close to the M50 is only going to be a positive as I will be travelling west for a while at the start so to me the location is perfect. It seems buying in the area is cheaper than renting at the moment so that's what I am planning to do. A two bed for €1700 seems madness to me. Surely a two bed or even a three bed would be cheaper to own than that.

    The Luas is probably a 20 minute walk in both directions, so it's "walkable" but probably on the very edge of what you'd really want to face on a cold, wet, wintery morning.

    Belarmine and Belmont is Stepaside, not Sandyford. I think Aiken's Village is stepaside too, though not 100%.

    I think (but could be wrong) that the area around the beacon is usually more sought after (and expensive) than the bit around the Sandyford village.

    I wouldn't say the village end is any more entertaining than the business park end of it, you're still probably heading to Dundrum if you want to do anything.


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    #40
    SarahMollie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭SarahMollie


    ^+1

    Yes I agree with awec above.

    Technically anywhere in Dublin is walkable, depending on your definition of the term. But to me, 25mins each way before I even get to the tram stop isnt convenient. Then maybe you've just missed a tram, and its 7mins until the next. Then the tram itself taking maybe 28mins into town. Thats an hour, which is hardly quick.


    Also, I think there is some confusion about whats Sandyford and whats Stepaside. So yes you should get more for your money in Stepaside quite simply because its further out.


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    #41
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    You can get the 47 bus from Belarmine into town but it takes a hour.


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    #42
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    SarahMollie wrote: »
    ^+1

    But to me, 25mins each way before I even get to the tram stop isnt convenient.
    It took me about 10 minutes to get into the Aikens Village estate from getting off the Luas. I wasn't sprinting either!!


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    #43
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Don't get us wrong Galwaygirl, it is a nice area (though personally I don't like Aiken's Village and prefer the apartments in Belarmine). But it's quiet and there's a reason it's cheaper.


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    #44
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    Dana Warm Baggage wrote: »

    I would steer clear of the cubes too, overpriced with paper thin walls.

    I'll contradict you there - lived in the Cubes for 2 years, and found them very thoroughly constructed - they even had some rubber cover on the floor to prevent sound transmission. Never heard my neighbours.
    Although the balcony door lock was occasionally gick, which let some noise in until a good shove closed...
    markpb wrote: »
    Unless you live in St Stephens Green, a commute from anywhere in the city centre could easily mean 15-20 minute walk, 5 minute wait, 20 minutes on the luas and another 5-10 to your office in Sandyford or 90 minutes a day. I'll take living in or near work and family and still have the convenience of being able to get into town easily for a night out.

    Besides which, Sandyford isn't all that bad. The main thing is missing now is a bar.

    Agree with that - can't understand why the copper room shut down. Great food & bar locked okay.
    The beacon hotel isn't too bad (although off in a corner, and not a "snug" bar - more of a poser bar)


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    #45
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The Leopardstown Inn is only a 10 min walk away and while it's not brilliant it's not rubbish either.

    I think the Copper bar or whatever it was called was just too undiscoverable. It was on the main road but you could walk past it and not even know there was a bar there.


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    #46
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,977 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    Dardania wrote: »
    Agree with that - can't understand why the copper room shut down. Great food & bar locked okay.
    The beacon hotel isn't too bad (although off in a corner, and not a "snug" bar - more of a poser bar)

    Copper bar had some top level management issues and litigation, shame because it wasn't a bad spot.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/tv-chef-lee-bradshaw-refused-injunctions-in-restaurant-dispute-30128514.html


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    #47
    SarahMollie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭SarahMollie


    Yeah thats a shame alright. I'm more stillorgan direction but we wouldnt every really think about going to Sandyford other than to go to Aldi/O'Briens, which is a shame really as so many people live there, you'd think it could sustain a decent local. We regularly walk down to Stillorgan village and the restaurants/bars there, and Sandyford is about the same distance, so if there was more there, we'd definitely go.

    We've been to China Sichuan once and will probably go back, but it would be nicer if there was somewhere to go for a drink after.


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    #48
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I think a lot of the Sandyford (at least the business park area) population is the sort of people who stay there Sunday -> Thursday and go back down the country on Fridays.


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    #49
    omb0wyn5ehpij9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,095 ✭✭✭✭omb0wyn5ehpij9


    awec wrote: »
    I think the Copper bar or whatever it was called was just too undiscoverable. It was on the main road but you could walk past it and not even know there was a bar there.

    I'd say the rent on the place was fairly hefty. I live close to where it was, and used to drink there a good bit, and it was never really busy. Would be there nearly every weekend at some point and never had an issue getting a seat.
    The downstairs area was fairly big, and was more or less always closed. It only ever opened when somebody booked it for a big party. Downstairs could hold close to 500 (we had a work Christmas party there). The cost of rent for such a large space that wasn't really bringing in any money must have had an effect.


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    #50
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    awec wrote: »
    I think a lot of the Sandyford (at least the business park area) population is the sort of people who stay there Sunday -> Thursday and go back down the country on Fridays.

    Totally. I was there to buy a car on a Saturday morning and it was like a ghost town.


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    #51
    omb0wyn5ehpij9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,095 ✭✭✭✭omb0wyn5ehpij9


    OP, as called out by others, the area is very quiet at weekends. The only people who are ever around the area at the weekends would be there for Dunnes/Ben Dunne gym


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    #52
    Frisbee
    Registered Users Posts: 23,563 ✭✭✭✭Frisbee


    I rented in Grande Central across from the Dunnes for two years @ 1300 a month. Moved out last May when a new estate agent took over and hiked the rent to 1650 a month at the end of our lease which was only about 6 weeks away. Even 1300 was pricey but was handy as I work in Cherrywood and herself works in the Sandyford Industrial estate so had a 2 minute walk to work every day.

    I remember checking them again around last September and there was apartments the same as ours had been up for 1850 :eek: They seem to have settled back down to around 1600 or so again now though.

    I have mates renting in Rockfield and who were paying more than we were at the time and the apartments in Sandyford were of a much higher standard inside.


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    #53
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I live close to Sandyford, when we moved in to our current place in 2013 the rent was 1200 a month and now it's 1650. I am pretty sure it would have gone up again next month except for this two year law that came in.

    Market rates in this area suck because they are manipulated. The vast majority of rental properties seem to be held by one or two large letting agencies which effectively gives them monopolistic control over rates.


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    #54
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    awec wrote: »
    I live close to Sandyford, when we moved in to our current place in 2013 the rent was 1200 a month and now it's 1650. I am pretty sure it would have gone up again next month except for this two year law that came in.

    Market rates in this area suck because they are manipulated. The vast majority of rental properties seem to be held by one or two large letting agencies which effectively gives them monopolistic control over rates.

    Market rate is that which the market pays. It's at such a high level because it's in demand. Having large letting agents in charge might swing the rents to the market rate quicker than elsewhere, but if there's no one willing to pay the rate then it would have to come down.


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    #55
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    Market rate is that which the market pays. It's at such a high level because it's in demand. Having large letting agents in charge might swing the rents to the market rate quicker than elsewhere, but if there's no one willing to pay the rate then it would have to come down.

    Well it's not like people have much choice.

    If it was a real market and my landlord increased my rent by 200 euro I would be able to go and look at other property in the area and see what the competition offer.

    Doesn't really work when it's the same company and they hike the rent in all their available properties at the same time so as to falsely inflate the market.

    I've no problem with rents going up, no problem with people making money from rent, no problem with rent based on the market rate. I don't like when one or two huge letting agencies are able to have effectively take full control of the market in an area, it removes the checks and balances.

    There's no solution to the problem though, so unfortunately it just has to be accepted.


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    #56
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    awec wrote: »
    Well it's not like people have much choice.

    If it was a real market and my landlord increased my rent by 200 euro I would be able to go and look at other property in the area and see what the competition offer.

    Doesn't really work when it's the same company and they hike the rent in all their available properties at the same time so as to falsely inflate the market.

    I've no problem with rents going up, no problem with people making money from rent, no problem with rent based on the market rate. I don't like when one or two huge letting agencies are able to have effectively take full control of the market in an area, it removes the checks and balances.

    There's no solution to the problem though, so unfortunately it just has to be accepted.

    They do have a choice, they can move.

    But let's say Sandyford is controlled by these two letting agencies and they bring it above market rate, i.e. the price the market will pay. People will leave and rent farther away or those looking won't be able to afford it/will just rent the cheaper places not in Sandyford.

    As I said the market rate is just being effected quicker by the influence of the agencies. Now if they were using advertised apartments at a level above market rate to justify rent increases in currently occupied apartments that would be a different story. I'd suggest the PRTB for non valid rent reviews then but the market is willing to pay the premium to live there.

    In another area without a large letting agency in control, market rates come about more slowly due to lower turnover of tenants, fewer properties for comparison, landlords willing to cut a deal with good tenants, etc.


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    #57
    SarahMollie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭SarahMollie


    I agree with MDH, if the agencies in Sandyford price themselves out of the market, people will just look to live in Stillorgan, Dundrum, Leopardstown etc etc.

    They will price the apartments at the maximum price they can without overly upsetting demand.

    Very few people absolutely have to live in Sandyford and will just look at other options if one area becomes excessively expensive in relation to the areas surrounding it.


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    #58
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    To me it's like if Tesco bought every single shop within a 5 mile radius and then hiked the price of a litre of milk to 8 euro.

    People will pay it cause they have to, cause they're not going to travel 5 miles for milk.

    The letting agencies obviously cannot extort the market and cannot get unrealistic rents (because there is a line), but they can ensure they are always at the max end of the realistic range of rents because they have such overwhelming control of the market.


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    #59
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    They do have a choice, they can move.

    But let's say Sandyford is controlled by these two letting agencies and they bring it above market rate, i.e. the price the market will pay. People will leave and rent farther away or those looking won't be able to afford it/will just rent the cheaper places not in Sandyford.

    As I said the market rate is just being effected quicker by the influence of the agencies. Now if they were using advertised apartments at a level above market rate to justify rent increases in currently occupied apartments that would be a different story. I'd suggest the PRTB for non valid rent reviews then but the market is willing to pay the premium to live there.

    In another area without a large letting agency in control, market rates come about more slowly due to lower turnover of tenants, fewer properties for comparison, landlords willing to cut a deal with good tenants, etc.

    Every time our rent has been reviewed I have looked on Daft at similar properties in the same area and they all suddenly seem to be the same price as our review.

    Of course, all being let out by one or two of the large players in the letting market.


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    #60
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    awec wrote: »
    To me it's like if Tesco bought every single shop within a 5 mile radius and then hiked the price of a litre of milk to 8 euro.

    People will pay it cause they have to, cause they're not going to travel 5 miles for milk.

    The letting agencies obviously cannot extort the market and cannot get unrealistic rents (because there is a line), but they can ensure they are always at the max end of the realistic range of rents because they have such overwhelming control of the market.

    That's the definition of the market rate. They're just better at achieving it.


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    #61
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    That's the definition of the market rate. They're just better at achieving it.

    I am not saying it isn't the market rate. I am saying that in these scenarios there are forces at play that arguably have too much influence on the market rate.

    There is a reason that there are laws around monopolies and price fixing.


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