Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VII: The Fan-base Awakens

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 11:00AM

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Is Jamieson Gibson Park comes I'd expect McGrath to be behind him.

sadly that's very possible and further underlines the poor job leinster rugby are doing in developing backs.

sydthebeat · 07-04-2016 11:04AM

leinstertalk wrote: »

9. Eoin Reddan - still here but very near end of career, Replacement hopefully Luke McGrath or a NZer.
.

we can take it that Gibson-Park is a definite

its reported in NZ thats hes signed a 3 year deal with us, starting at the end of this seasons super xviii

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 11:09AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

we can take it that Gibson-Park is a definite

its reported in NZ thats hes signed a 3 year deal with us, starting at the end of this seasons super xviii

I know, I figure JGP is replacing Boss.
Hopefully Luke McGrath will be good enough to hold off a 3rd choice scrumhalf from NZ. But it wouldn't surprise me if once again Leinster have failed to develop a back to the sufficient level required.

CMOTDibbler · 07-04-2016 11:15AM

leinstertalk wrote: »

Fairly sure Sheridan got a development contract before leaving but I could be wrong.
David Doyle retired due to injury
Andrew Boyle is back in Ireland afaik
Ciaran Ruddock is playing AIL, think Mikey Sherlock was playing AIL too but not sure.

9 backs got senior deals, none are currently 1st choice. 3 will be with leinster next season, along with 3 graduating academy backs - Ringrose, Daly, A Byrne.
3 backs in the graduating academy class do not have contracts at leinster for next season - Dardis, Crosbie, Farrell.

The guys I marked as retired, I meant as professional players. The main point I gather from this is that very few wash out completely. The vast majority continue as professional players somewhere, sometimes at a very high level such as Top 14 or Premiership (even playing for Connacht

).

If the wash out rate was higher, I'd be more comfortable in the belief that the academy is hoovering up all available talent. In the last three years of output (23 players) only two didn't make a pro contract (David Doyle and Andy Boyle) and only a further five didn't get Leinster contracts. That's less than one third of the total.

The Lost Sheep · 07-04-2016 11:20AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'm not sure that the AIL isn't capable of providing meaningful matches. My solution would be to have academy teams compete there and this would provide both a useful outlet for the players but also a higher profile for the AIL itself. There a disconnect between the AIL and the provinces and this would help bridge that. It would also give academy coaches a closer look at the AIL and the players in other clubs which would in turn hopefully lead to more crossover betwwen the AIL and the academies/senior provincial squads.

Initially it wouldn't be able to wash its face, but over time it should generate a bit more interest. Interpros in Donnybrook and other provinicial centres between the provincial academies could be quite a draw.

Putting full academy teams in the AIL just disenfranchises the clubs in the league. What gives you the idea it would create a higher profile for the league. The British and Irish Cup and A games are primarily academy teams yet they should be got rid of yet you want essentially British and irish cup teams to play AIL.. Its not going to happen. The academy coaches do play close look at AIL and more so with their players involved across several teams.
What gives you the idea it would generate more interest?

salmocab wrote: »

As oppose to bridging the gap I would imagine that AIL clubs would take exception to having what would basically be 4 full time pro teams with the cream of young Irish talent thrust into their league. It would mean weakening the current AIL teams and creating stronger teams for them to play against. I do think the A team need more games but the AIL is not the answer.

+1

leinstertalk wrote: »

all academy teams aren't feasilble at all.. increased academy numbers and support, academy size of approx 30 players each year.. because bar the 1 or 2 truely elite talents in every age group there isn't much difference between the 5th best player and the 10th best player in leinster.

Increased academy numbers isn't feasible either. You keep harping on that it is but it isn't. Surely the provinces would jump at doing it if it was worthwhile but it isn't.
There is good reason the academies aren't going to get much bigger. The costs of expanding the academies like you want is huge and unworkable

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 11:23AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The guys I marked as retired, I meant as professional players. The main point I gather from this is that very few wash out completely. The vast majority continue as professional players somewhere, sometimes at a very high level such as Top 14 or Premiership (even playing for Connacht ).

If the wash out rate was higher, I'd be more comfortable in the belief that the academy is hoovering up all available talent. In the last three years of output (23 players) only two didn't make a pro contract (David Doyle and Andy Boyle) and only a further five didn't get Leinster contracts. That's less than one third of the total.

David Doyle didn't get a contract due to retiring due to injury. He was very highly rated before that.

It's rare for a player to not get a devlopment deal out of the academy, it's wether that player gets another contract after that at leinster and pushes on in the first team. That rarely happens with backs at leinster.

As I said 3 backs are still with leinster from those who have left the academy since 2010, none are 1st choice. Now with Ringrose coming out there appears to be an academy graduate who is 1st choice for Leinster. That tells me that unless you are an exceptionally talented back you won't push on to be a 1st choice player at Leinster after the academy. So what is the academy doing with all these backs that join it? Certainly not developing them into players that can be called upon to replace 1st choice backs at leinster who are leaving or retiring.

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 11:25AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Putting full academy teams in the AIL just disenfranchises the clubs in the league. What gives you the idea it would create a higher profile for the league. The British and Irish Cup and A games are primarily academy teams yet they should be got rid of yet you want essentially British and irish cup teams to play AIL.. Its not going to happen. The academy coaches do play close look at AIL and more so with their players involved across several teams.
What gives you the idea it would generate more interest?
+1
Increased academy numbers isn't feasible either. You keep harping on that it is but it isn't. Surely the provinces would jump at doing it if it was worthwhile but it isn't.
There is good reason the academies aren't going to get much bigger. The costs of expanding the academies like you want is huge and unworkable

So instead of having 22/23 players, they'd have 30 players(in Leinster) this will "explode" the costs of the academy? No it won't, it will be more expensive but not massively so.

As I said before the academy is too narrow and restrictive and is not doing a good job with the backs that enter to begin with.

Synode · 07-04-2016 11:52AM

leinstertalk wrote: »

So instead of having 22/23 players, they'd have 30 players(in Leinster) this will "explode" the costs of the academy? No it won't, it will be more expensive but not massively so.

As I said before the academy is too narrow and restrictive and is not doing a good job with the backs that enter to begin with.

What's the point in having more players in the Academy if the additional ones won't be any better than the ones who end up leaving Leinster for not being good enough. It's a ridiculous argument.

You have to just accept that it's not our God given right to churn out quality backs. International class ones come along when they come along. It has less to do with their time in the Academy (though this is very important) and more to do with the natural talent they are born with

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 11:56AM

Synode wrote: »

What's the point in having more players in the Academy if the additional ones won't be any better than the ones who end up leaving Leinster for not being good enough. It's a ridiculous argument.

You have to just accept that it's not our God given right to churn out quality backs. International class ones come along when they come along. It has less to do with their time in the Academy (though this is very important) and more to do with the natural talent they are born with

so NZ or Ulster or Wales or Scotland etc. etc. just has naturally better rugby players from birth than Leinster? Interesting...

No one has claimed it's leinster's god given right, but it is one of their main responsibilities.

If great players are born then why all the coaching?
Was Garry Ringrose born a good player or did he develop into one?
Was Brian O'Driscoll born a great player or did he develop into one?

CMOTDibbler · 07-04-2016 11:58AM

leinstertalk wrote: »

So instead of having 22/23 players, they'd have 30 players(in Leinster) this will "explode" the costs of the academy? No it won't, it will be more expensive but not massively so.

As I said before the academy is too narrow and restrictive and is not doing a good job with the backs that enter to begin with.

Up until the 2012-13 season, the academy consisted of less than twenty players. 15, 17 and 18 AFAIR were the numbers before that.

So it has expanded since 2010 but it has stopped expanding for the last three years. Coincidentally with that lack of expansion has come a much greater uptake to senior contracts proportionally and yet as you say, the quality in the backs is pretty sparse.

In that three years, the backs that graduated were Noel Reid, Darren Hudson, Andrew Boyle, Colm O'Shea, Luke McGrath, Sam Coghlan-Murray and Cathal Marsh. Four in three years. In fact that's four years because none of the graduates from 2011-12 made it through.

Synode · 07-04-2016 12:00PM

leinstertalk wrote: »

so NZ or Ulster or Wales or Scotland etc. etc. just has naturally better rugby players from birth than Leinster? Interesting...

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Why are you comparing countries with a single team (Leinster) though?

I'm not replying to the rest of your comment because I said the Academy time is very important in my original post.

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 12:05PM

Synode wrote: »

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Why are you comparing countries with a single team (Leinster) though?

I'm not replying to the rest of your comment because I said the Academy time is very important in my original post.

Compare Leinster to Ulster then.

And the country comparison is not without merit, they develop backs.. something leinster used to be able to do.

You also said players are born with the natural talent for international rugby.. which isn't true, players develop into that with the right support, coaching and environment.

CMOTDibbler · 07-04-2016 12:25PM

Synode wrote: »

What's the point in having more players in the Academy if the additional ones won't be any better than the ones who end up leaving Leinster for not being good enough. It's a ridiculous argument.

I'd agree with you except that when there's a perceived shortage in a particular position, the academy miraculously stocks up in that position.

So currently the academy has five centres, five half backs and four back three players, just when we might need them. In the last three years we graduated six back rowers and kept four. Now we only have two in the academy.

So we over produce when we need to fill a shortage and discard what we don't need. Funny how we can manage to do that...

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 12:54PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I'd agree with you except that when there's a perceived shortage in a particular position, the academy miraculously stocks up in that position.

So currently the academy has five centres, five half backs and four back three players, just when we might need them. In the last three years we graduated six back rowers and kept four. Now we only have two in the academy.

So we over produce when we need to fill a shortage and discard what we don't need. Funny how we can manage to do that...

Well I think they've became more restrictive on who they take into the academy at backrow and LH prop and maybe more open to who they will take in from the backs..

outstanding talents are going to join the academy regardless of position... leinster rugby this decade has been producing more forwards than backs and that needs to change or at least balance out.

There are signs it might be changing but the academies recent record is not encouraging in regards to ensuring talented backs get upto the level required.

dregin · 07-04-2016 01:11PM

Kinda Off Topic, but still Leinster-related. The missus took a shining to a Leinster baseball jacket a girl in front of us was wearing at the match on Saturday. I've searched high and low online to now avail. It had a similar colourscheme to this:

Anyone any ideas where I might get one?

Hagz · 07-04-2016 02:19PM

Was it something like this?

These are the jackets worn by members of the 'Leinster Rugby Blue Crew'. Just basically young people employed by Leinster to assist people around the grounds and hand out free gear. Don't think they are around anymore, but the jackets were never for sale anyway.

Synode · 07-04-2016 02:27PM

leinstertalk wrote: »

Compare Leinster to Ulster then.

And the country comparison is not without merit, they develop backs.. something leinster used to be able to do.

You also said players are born with the natural talent for international rugby.. which isn't true, players develop into that with the right support, coaching and environment.

When you compare to Ulster you see that Ulster have problems producing quality forwards the last number of years. It's swings and roundabouts. Increasing the size of the Academy will not solve these problems.

stephen_n · 07-04-2016 02:30PM

leinstertalk wrote: »

Here are the backs through the academy this decade and where they are next season:

Scrumhalf: John Cooney[1990] - Connacht
Scrumhalf: Luke McGrath[1993] - Leinster
Scrumhalf: Nick McCarthy[1995] - Academy Year 3
Scrumhalf: Charlie Rock[1995] - Academy Year 2
Outhalf: Cathal Marsh[1992] - Leinster
Outhalf/Centre: Steve Crosbie[1993] - out of contract
Outhalf: Ross Byrne[1995] - Academy Year 3
Outhalf: Joey Carbery[1995] - Academy Year 2
Centre: Noel Reid[1990] - Leinster
Centre: Colm O'Shea[1991] - Out of contract
Centre: Brendan Macken[1991] - Wasps
Centre: Tom Daly[1993] - Leinster
Centre: Tom Farrell[1993] - Out of contract
Centre: Garry Ringrose[1995] - Leinster
Centre: Harrison Brewer[1995] - Academy Year 3
Wing/Fullback: Darren Hudson[1990] - Out of contract
Wing: Andrew Boyle[1991] - AIL
Wing/Fullback: Andrew Conway[1991] - Munster
Wing: Sam Coghlan Murray[1992] - out of contract
Wing: Adam Byrne[1994] - Leinster
Wing: Ian Fitzpatrick[1994] - Academy Year 3
Wing/Fullback: Cian Kelleher[1994] - Academy Year 3
Wing/Centre: Rory O'Loughlin[1994] - Academy Year 3
Fullback: Billy Dardis[1995] - out of contract

So not including the players still in the academy, you're looking at a pretty much 2:1 ratio for players not continuing with Leinster after the academy.

dregin · 07-04-2016 02:32PM

Hagz wrote: »

Was it something like this?

These are the jackets worn by members of the 'Leinster Rugby Blue Crew'. Just basically young people employed by Leinster to assist people around the grounds and hand out free gear. Don't think they are around anymore, but the jackets were never for sale anyway.

That was the one! Good to know. Cheers.

former total · 07-04-2016 02:39PM

leinstertalk wrote: »

So instead of having 22/23 players, they'd have 30 players(in Leinster) this will "explode" the costs of the academy? No it won't, it will be more expensive but not massively so.

As I said before the academy is too narrow and restrictive and is not doing a good job with the backs that enter to begin with.

Your issue is that the backs in the academy don't get enough game time with the seniors. Bringing more people into the academy will make that problem worse, not better.

It's as simple as this. People see these guys as superstars in the schools game, assume they'll be superstars at pro level, and can't understand why it doesn't pan out, while those of us who don't watch schools rugby scratch out heads in bafflement. I'd bet the farm that Leinstertalk is a big schools rugby enthusiast.

The Academy does a fine job. Can we wrap up the self-loathing now please?

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 02:39PM

stephen_n wrote: »

So not including the players still in the academy, you're looking at a pretty much 2:1 ratio for players not continuing with Leinster after the academy.

Players through the academy born since 1990.

With Leinster next season:
Scrumhalf: Luke McGrath[1993] - Leinster
Outhalf: Cathal Marsh[1992] - Leinster
Centre: Noel Reid[1990] - Leinster
Centre: Tom Daly[1993] - Leinster
Centre: Garry Ringrose[1995] - Leinster
Wing: Adam Byrne[1994] - Leinster

Elsewhere:
Scrumhalf: John Cooney[1990] - Connacht
Outhalf/Centre: Steve Crosbie[1993] - ?
Centre: Colm O'Shea[1991] - ?
Centre: Brendan Macken[1991] - Wasps
Centre: Tom Farrell[1993] - ?
Wing/Fullback: Darren Hudson[1990] - ?
Wing: Andrew Boyle[1991] - AIL
Wing/Fullback: Andrew Conway[1991] - Munster
Wing: Sam Coghlan Murray[1992] - ?
Fullback: Billy Dardis[1995] - ?

Players left in academy:
Scrumhalf: Nick McCarthy[1995]
Scrumhalf: Charlie Rock[1995]
Outhalf: Ross Byrne[1995]
Outhalf: Joey Carbery[1995]
Centre: Harrison Brewer[1995]
Wing: Ian Fitzpatrick[1994]
Wing: Rory O'Loughlin[1994]
Wing: Cian Kelleher[1994]
+
new academy backs

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 02:46PM

former total wrote: »

Your issue is that the backs in the academy don't get enough game time with the seniors. Bringing more people into the academy will make that problem worse, not better.

It's as simple as this. People see these guys as superstars in the schools game, assume they'll be superstars at pro level, and can't understand why it doesn't pan out, while those of us who don't watch schools rugby scratch out heads in bafflement. I'd bet the farm that Leinstertalk is a big schools rugby enthusiast.

The Academy does a fine job. Can we wrap up the self-loathing now please?

No one expects that players who are school stars will automatically become pro stars, it's not about that. It's about the lack of back development going on in the province and the consequence that has had on the senior team.

Some people seem to want to ignore these facts, but leinster rugby has been struggling to develop high quality backs for half a decade and if that trend continues the future of the senior team will continue to fall. Leinster used to pride itself on having good homegrown backs. They've stopped producing those players and that is major worry going forward.

As I said previously when only the super talented players(Ringrose) manage to reach a level of 1st choice for Leinster, you'd have to question what the academy is doing with those with slightly less talent and their inability to develop these players into players who could start regularly for Leinster.

The fact that one 1st choice back has been produced this decade and that back being a can't miss prospect who has stood out as a special since his days in 6th year, should be a worry to all leinster fans. Where is the player development & skill improvement? What are they doing in the academy and at training? Why have the failed so badly at bringing through backs since the turn of the decade?

The team at the weekend looked like it could really do with some younger talent in it, instead they had a 36 year old scrumhalf, 3 NIQ's - two of which were back three players in their 30's and the other was a converted rugby league player. Long gone are the days of yore and at some stage a transition will have to occur both for those players I listed and for when the last quality backs from the academy(Sexton/Kearney/Fitzgerald) move on. Are you confident that the Leinster academy will be able to fill those holes when the time comes? Especially given it's recent record.

neelia11 · 07-04-2016 03:20PM

leinstertalk wrote: »

No one expects that players who are school stars will automatically become pro stars, it's not about that. It's about the lack of back development going on in the province and the consequence that has had on the senior team.

Some people seem to want to ignore these facts, but leinster rugby has been struggling to develop high quality backs for half a decade and if that trend continues the future of the senior team will continue to fall. Leinster used to pride itself on having good homegrown backs. They've stopped producing those players and that is major worry going forward.

As I said previously when only the super talented players(Ringrose) manage to reach a level of 1st choice for Leinster, you'd have to question what the academy is doing with those with slightly less talent and their inability to develop these players into players who could start regularly for Leinster.

The fact that one 1st choice back has been produced this decade and that back being a can't miss prospect who has stood out as a special since his days in 6th year, should be a worry to all leinster fans. Where is the player development & skill improvement? What are they doing in the academy and at training? Why have the failed so badly at bringing through backs since the turn of the decade?

The team at the weekend looked like it could really do with some younger talent in it, instead they had a 36 year old scrumhalf, 3 NIQ's - two of which were back three players in their 30's and the other was a converted rugby league player. Long gone are the days of yore and at some stage a transition will have to occur both for those players I listed and for when the last quality backs from the academy(Sexton/Kearney/Fitzgerald) move on. Are you confident that the Leinster academy will be able to fill those holes when the time comes? Especially given it's recent record.

And its not so long ago that leinster had one forward as an ireland regular (okelly) along with the munster pack. Munster won the 2008 HEC with ripoki, mafi, howlett and warwick in the 22. Academies are only as good as the raw material they get to work with. 10 years from now leinster could have a pack akin to the mid noughties one and a backline akin to the mid noughties one and the argument gets flipped on its head. There is a limit on resources which has to be managed best.

RichieRich89 · 07-04-2016 03:28PM

leinstertalk wrote: »

No one expects that players who are school stars will automatically become pro stars, it's not about that. It's about the lack of back development going on in the province and the consequence that has had on the senior team.

Some people seem to want to ignore these facts, but leinster rugby has been struggling to develop high quality backs for half a decade and if that trend continues the future of the senior team will continue to fall. Leinster used to pride itself on having good homegrown backs. They've stopped producing those players and that is major worry going forward.

As I said previously when only the super talented players(Ringrose) manage to reach a level of 1st choice for Leinster, you'd have to question what the academy is doing with those with slightly less talent and their inability to develop these players into players who could start regularly for Leinster.

The fact that one 1st choice back has been produced this decade and that back being a can't miss prospect who has stood out as a special since his days in 6th year, should be a worry to all leinster fans. Where is the player development & skill improvement? What are they doing in the academy and at training? Why have the failed so badly at bringing through backs since the turn of the decade?

We know that enough backs of the desired quality aren't coming through but it's very hard to tell if that's the fault of the Academy. Is the emergence of good young backs in Ulster and Connacht all down to their academies, or is it that players are being backed more and getting better coaching from the senior team coaches? If Pat Lam was Leinster coach, say, would he be able to take some of the academy backs and get more out of them?

I think a lot of the problem is that Leinster have NIQs and other versatile players who are on the fringes of international selection in the backs, which means that they're usually available, and Leinster don't really have to go out of their comfort zone in team selections. It'll be interesting to see what happens once Nacewa and Kirchner are gone. Maybe Leinster will have to start being braver and trusting young backs a bit more?

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 03:29PM

neelia11 wrote: »

And its not so long ago that leinster had one forward as an ireland regular (okelly) along with the munster pack. Munster won the 2008 HEC with ripoki, mafi, howlett and warwick in the 22. Academies are only as good as the raw material they get to work with. 10 years from now leinster could have a pack akin to the mid noughties one and a backline akin to the mid noughties one and the argument gets flipped on its head. There is a limit on resources which has to be managed best.

So it's not possible for the Leinster academy to develop backs and forwards?

Leinster were terrible at developing forwards, they put in place the necessary development support and structures to change that and it reaped rewards. Even at lock there appears to be players finally coming through.

Now why can't the same be done to develop some quality backs? there is nothing stopping them apart from poor coaching, poor structures & support & lack of invention/creativity.

With the right setup, support, structures and coaching at every level this can be acheived. Saying it's all luck and natural talent and that the raw ability isn't there is putting your head in the sand and failing to understand how talent development works.

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 03:35PM

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Maybe Leinster will have to start being braver and trusting young backs a bit more?

Hopefully Nucifora forces them to, he appears to be forcing them to at 10 with no signing happening and had to concede to them at 12 due to Henshaws demands.

9 is a mess and the need for some more IQ'd talent seems to have been used to allow Leinster sign a 3rd string scrumhalf from NZ. It will be damning verdict on irish & leinster rugby development processes if he plays for Ireland ahead of homegrown scrumhalves throughout the country.

Hopefully a NIQ lock is not allowed either.. Kearney/Molony/Ryan are three young locks who could flourish with that gametime.

neelia11 · 07-04-2016 03:53PM

leinstertalk wrote: »

So it's not possible for the Leinster academy to develop backs and forwards?

Leinster were terrible at developing forwards, they put in place the necessary development support and structures to change that and it reaped rewards. Even at lock there appears to be players finally coming through.

Now why can't the same be done to develop some quality backs? there is nothing stopping them apart from poor coaching, poor structures & support & lack of invention/creativity.

With the right setup, support, structures and coaching at every level this can be acheived. Saying it's all luck and natural talent and that the raw ability isn't there is putting your head in the sand and failing to understand how talent development works.

I never said it wasnt possible to develop backs and forwards. In an ideal world there would be an even spread across the XV positions.

How do we know leinster were terrible at developing forwards? Could it not be that the last 5-10 years have seen a much better level of player come through who have been developed through the academy into the first team?

The academy has proven itself capable of producing quality, most recently in the forwards predominantly so the system works but the player distribution across the 15 hasnt been great. Could it not be a case of the players available to take in just arent showing enough so its considered better not to waste a [limited] spot and risk lose a player in a different position?

RichieRich89 · 07-04-2016 03:54PM

leinstertalk wrote: »

Hopefully Nucifora forces them to, he appears to be forcing them to at 10 with no signing happening and had to concede to them at 12 due to Henshaws demands.

9 is a mess and the need for some more IQ'd talent seems to have been used to allow Leinster sign a 3rd string scrumhalf from NZ. It will be damning verdict on irish & leinster rugby development processes if he plays for Ireland ahead of homegrown scrumhalves throughout the country.

Hopefully a NIQ lock is not allowed either.. Kearney/Molony/Ryan are three young locks who could flourish with that gametime.

In fairness, Schmidt was developing McGrath and Cooney nicely, in preparation for when Boss and Reddan would be gone, but then O'Connor came in and development of young backs pretty much ground to a halt

I can't see Leinster being allowed to sign an NIQ lock

neelia11 · 07-04-2016 03:54PM

leinstertalk wrote: »

Hopefully a NIQ lock is not allowed either.. Kearney/Molony/Ryan are three young locks who could flourish with that gametime.

Why would leinster go looking for a lock when there is Toner, Maccer and the three you mention in situ?

leinstertalk · 07-04-2016 03:55PM

RichieRich89 wrote: »

We know that enough backs of the desired quality aren't coming through but it's very hard to tell if that's the fault of the Academy. Is the emergence of good young backs in Ulster and Connacht all down to their academies, or is it that players are being backed more and getting better coaching from the senior team coaches? If Pat Lam was Leinster coach, say, would he be able to take some of the academy backs and get more out of them?

I think it's clear, better coaching at every level will produce more backs... a good back can 5'9 or 6'4.. it's all down to being developed properly so that a back has the right skillset, is creative and has a good rugby brain.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VII: The Fan-base Awakens

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