Electric Ireland - Free Nest Heating Thermostat + Installation

bk · 04-04-2016 09:54PM

Oh just announced today, not a good indicator of Nest:

Nest is permanently disabling the Revolv smart home hub
http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/4/11362928/google-nest-revolv-shutdown-smart-home-products

Nest is permanently disabling ones of it products. While it is a minor product, it is still frightening to think that they can simply turn off a product you paid 300 for any time they want!

Nest is not concerned with customers who paid for expensive hardware under the impression that it would work for years to come. The move also raises complex questions about the future of smart appliances. "Is the era of IoT [Internet of Things] bringing an end to the concept of ownership? Are we just buying intentionally temporary hardware?"

PeterDuggan · 04-04-2016 10:41PM

toby2111 wrote: »

How much is it to buy Nest seperately? I presume it would be about €80 to €100 to get am electrician to install it? Or would I need a plumber also?

About €235 to buy.

Yes plumbers will quote about €100 but you don’t really need a plumber cos there’s no plumbing involved. A decent handyman can do it. Or here’s a video giving an idea of what’s involved in a self-install... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aIJzinLjZY. If this guy can install it, anyone can.

PeterDuggan · 04-04-2016 10:50PM

bk wrote: »

Oh just announced today, not a good indicator of Nest:

Nest is permanently disabling the Revolv smart home hub
http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/4/11362928/google-nest-revolv-shutdown-smart-home-products

Nest is permanently disabling ones of it products. While it is a minor product, it is still frightening to think that they can simply turn off a product you paid 300 for any time they want!

Yes that's worrying.

ted1 · 04-04-2016 10:51PM

PeterDuggan wrote: »

About €235 to buy.

Yes plumbers will quote about €100 but you don’t really need a plumber cos there’s no plumbing involved. A decent handyman can do it. Or here’s a video giving an idea of what’s involved in a self-install... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aIJzinLjZY. If this guy can install it, anyone can.

It's illegal for a handyman to do it if he is not a qualified sparks.

toby2111 · 04-04-2016 10:51PM

Think I'd still prefer to get somebody else to wire it up, I'd make a balls of it..... Although after reading what Nest have done to that revolv thing, I might just hold back!

BionicRasher · 04-04-2016 11:24PM

ted1 wrote: »

Controlling individual rads doesn't save money, firstly you need to power each actuator. Which costs money but more importantly unless you have very well insulated walls and doors You create drafts and use more energy heating through heat loss, that's the cold rooms taking the heat from the warmer areas.

Controlling rooms or zones is going to save money. Turning off Rads in unused rooms will save money on fuel.
No need for wired actuators - battery powered ones will last up to 3 years on a pair of AA batteries and cost anywhere from 50 to 100 Euro

http://www.buildingtechnologies.siemens.com/bt/global/en/products/hvac-products/home-automation-system/synco%E2%84%A2-living/pages/ssa955.aspx

https://www.thesmartshop.co.uk/lightwaverf/store/remote-heating-control/jsjslw944-lightwaverf-radiator-valves-3-pack

PeterDuggan · 04-04-2016 11:43PM

ted1 wrote: »

It's illegal for a handyman to do it if he is not a qualified sparks.

I have a feeling there'll be a plumber along any minute who'll say the same about plumbers.
...probably followed by a gas fitter.

ted1 · 05-04-2016 09:51AM

PeterDuggan wrote: »

I have a feeling there'll be a plumber along any minute who'll say the same about plumbers.
...probably followed by a gas fitter.

http://www.safeelectric.ie

PeterDuggan · 05-04-2016 10:37AM

I'm just replying to avoid others feeling they have to hire a plumber or spark when a competent handyman will do as good a job. The job actually takes about an hour - for which a plumber will charge you €100 or so, and a spark something similar.

http://www.safeelectric.ie itself says the regs "exclude minor works" - which this is.

Trust me I know. I'm a spark.

05-04-2016 03:05PM

bk wrote: »

Oh just announced today, not a good indicator of Nest:

Nest is permanently disabling the Revolv smart home hub
http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/4/11362928/google-nest-revolv-shutdown-smart-home-products

Nest is permanently disabling ones of it products. While it is a minor product, it is still frightening to think that they can simply turn off a product you paid 300 for any time they want!

You think that's bad, check out what a NEST engineer had to say on Reddit yesterday

https://np.reddit.com/r/Nest/comments/4dbbgh/is_anyone_concerned_about_the_future_of_nest/d1pjcku?context=3

PeterDuggan · 05-04-2016 03:19PM

cisk wrote: »

You think that's bad, check out what a NEST engineer had to say on Reddit yesterday

https://np.reddit.com/r/Nest/comments/4dbbgh/is_anyone_concerned_about_the_future_of_nest/d1pjcku?context=3

Wow.

Chardee MacDennis · 05-04-2016 04:17PM

cisk wrote: »

You think that's bad, check out what a NEST engineer had to say on Reddit yesterday

https://np.reddit.com/r/Nest/comments/4dbbgh/is_anyone_concerned_about_the_future_of_nest/d1pjcku?context=3

thats the dropcam team, a different team to the thermostat. But i wont say it's not worrying.

toby2111 · 05-04-2016 04:34PM

Could they really just pull the Nest thermostat? Surely Electric Ireland would be liable for replacement thermostats as it would be under contract?

Chardee MacDennis · 05-04-2016 04:38PM

toby2111 wrote: »

Could they really just pull the Nest thermostat? Surely Electric Ireland would be liable for replacement thermostats as it would be under contract?

I'd be very surprised if anything happened in the near future. afaik they're talking about pulling dropcam not the thermostat.

bidiots · 05-04-2016 04:50PM

toby2111 wrote: »

With electric ireland, it's free nest +stand+install +€50 switching bonus. Unless somebody else doing boiler check?

https://www.electricireland.ie/residential/products/smarter-living/home-comfort-bundle

ninty · 05-04-2016 04:55PM

toby2111 wrote: »

Could they really just pull the Nest thermostat? Surely Electric Ireland would be liable for replacement thermostats as it would be under contract?

Is nest not owned by Google,would they do this

toby2111 · 05-04-2016 05:15PM

In the engineers own words "this company is already on deathwatch"...... Wouldn't fill me with much confidence!! It's an interesting read.

JDxtra · 05-04-2016 05:19PM

It’s like a tidal wave of bad press against the company of late. They’ll have to make a statement to reassure existing and potential customers.

ted1 · 05-04-2016 07:49PM

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

thats the dropcam team, a different team to the thermostat. But i wont say it's not worrying.

I wouldn't hold out for the protect. I could never understand the logic of a fine alarm that used a network connection, not much use if the cable is burnt or MCB trips

bk · 05-04-2016 09:33PM

ninty wrote: »

Is nest not owned by Google,would they do this

Well they just did with the Revolv product which is owned by Nest/Google. They simply shutdown this €300 device!!

So very worrying, specially given all the bad news coming out of Nest recently (50% of staff leaving, sales way lower then expected, etc.).

ted1 wrote: »

I wouldn't hold out for the protect. I could never understand the logic of a fine alarm that used a network connection, not much use if the cable is burnt or MCB trips

In fairness I believe it still works as a basic fire alarm even if the wifi and power (it has a battery backup) go out.

All you potentially lose are the fancy extra features, the ability of one alarm to trigger all alarms in the house and send a notification out to you when your not home.

Though even saying that, unless the fire actually started in your wifi router, then I suspect all alarms would trigger and send a notification out before the fire managed to take out your broadband/wifi/electricity.

ted1 · 05-04-2016 09:50PM

bk wrote: »

Well they just did with the Revolv product which is owned by Nest/Google. They simply shutdown this €300 device!!

So very worrying, specially given all the bad news coming out of Nest recently (50% of staff leaving, sales way lower then expected, etc.).

In fairness I believe it still works as a basic fire alarm even if the wifi and power (it has a battery backup) go out.

All you potentially lose are the fancy extra features, the ability of one alarm to trigger all alarms in the house and send a notification out to you when your not home.

Though even saying that, unless the fire actually started in your wifi router, then I suspect all alarms would trigger and send a notification out before the fire managed to take out your broadband/wifi/electricity.

Then it's just a 12 euro fire alarm

that's what I could never understand, why buy one ?

bk · 05-04-2016 11:41PM

ted1 wrote: »

Then it's just a 12 euro fire alarm that's what I could never understand, why buy one ?

To be honest, I agree, which is why I never bought into them despite being into home automation tech.

However in fairness relating to the comment above, I would expect that in 99% of fires, it would trigger all alarms in your house and would send a notification to your phone even if not home, something your €12 alarm can't do.

The advantages of Nest Protect are:

1) One alarm goes off, all alarms go off
- Handy if you have a big house, you might not hear a normal fire alarm going off at the other side of the house, with Nest you would have more warning and could get out of the house sooner or get to the fire earlier.
- You can silence it easily if the alarm is due to cooking, etc.
- It can send your phone a notification of fire when your not home.
- It automatically tests itself
- It actually can detect two different types of fires, both smoky and flammy types, as well as CO2. You usually need to actually buy two different €12 fire alarms and a €12 CO2 detector in order to have the same adequate coverage.

It is actually quite a good concept. The problem is that it is too expensive. Not just the €150 each up front, but the fact it has to be replaced every 10 years! At least they should have designed it so that you could replace just the detector part with needing the replace all the electronics.

yllw.ldbttr · 06-04-2016 04:00PM

I was about to pull the trigger on a couple of Nest Protects but with all the bad press and the comments from engineering staff on Reddit I'm going to hold off.

Anyone suggest any alternative Smart smoke/ fire alarms?
Birdi, Halo and Roost all look interesting, but they are all quite immature products.

Chardee MacDennis · 06-04-2016 05:35PM

alternative view point from another NEST engineer.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nest/comments/4ddvho/any_other_info_from_nest_employees_on_whats_going/

I'm not going to make a throwaway, but I too work at Nest (grunt level engineer). First off, I'm sorry the Nester above has had such a bad experience, because whenever I hear things like that I feel partly responsible. I'm part of the same group of people being lambasted, and it's no fun to read articles about how the wonderful stuff you've worked on is crappy and that the workplace you've worked so hard to cultivate is toxic. I feel like my team are some of the greatest people I've met inside and outside the office, and I love almost all the people I've interacted with at Nest. It's a bummer that the feeling isn't ubiquitous across the company.
I'm a hardware designer, I work on the electronics in a yet-to-be released product. Yes, we are working on products that aren't on store shelves, but no, I can't really say much about them. But I've been here for two years, and I've seen the company grow from a few hundred to a few thousand.
Financially: we aren't on death row -- we have a 500M budget and make 340M in revenue; operating at a loss is SOP for a company working on developing new technology, in particular one tackling as many different areas as we are. We certainly aren't at risk of going under, and when we 'intentionally brick existing devices', it means that we are making the decision to wind down costly support to an extreme minority of users in this particular case of a product we didn't actually design. It's like how Halo 2 servers aren't active anymore over at Bungie, it just wasn't cost effective to keep them up. And anyway, every one of our devices can operate without the presence of the web service (and can even operate with each other, it's not like the smoke detectors and thermostat don't work when the power goes out and your wifi is down).
Tony Fadell is a tough guy to work with sometimes, definitely a tough guy to work for sometimes, but ultimately I think he's got a good head on his shoulders and every time he's made an ultimatum or tough call (to do a total 180 on a feature set or product), it's been in the spirit of not succumbing to sunk costs. Ultimately, if a product looks like it won't delight the customers, we don't want to make it, even if engineers like me spent hundreds of hours doing our best to make it great.
I haven't seen anyone crying in bathrooms, but I certainly do hear people upset that their work isn't appreciated or that their time is being wasted. But I also hear people saying that they love their jobs and the people they work with, and that Nest has the smartest group of people they've had the pleasure to call peers.
I'm really sad we're getting all this press that make people think everyone hates it at Nest. I really don't (and in my experience, most people don't) -- what we don't like is the negative press echo chamber that amplifies all of the bad stories and diminishes all the good ones. Anyway, my 2 cents.
TL;DR: I think Nest is pretty great, I like the stuff we work and and the people I work on it with. Many complaints are valid, but it sucks hearing people tear down the whole company when most of us like it a lot.

ted1 · 06-04-2016 06:00PM

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

I was about to pull the trigger on a couple of Nest Protects but with all the bad press and the comments from engineering staff on Reddit I'm going to hold off.

Anyone suggest any alternative Smart smoke/ fire alarms?
Birdi, Halo and Roost all look interesting, but they are all quite immature products.

Just pop up to any hardware store and pick up a CO2 and smoke / fire alarm no need to go for fancy ones,

yllw.ldbttr · 06-04-2016 07:47PM

ted1 wrote: »

Just pop up to any hardware store and pick up a CO2 and smoke / fire alarm no need to go for fancy ones,

Thanks, I know how and where to purchase a basic one.
That wasn't my question.

ted1 · 06-04-2016 07:55PM

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

Thanks, I know how and where to purchase a basic one.
That wasn't my question.

You asked for an alternative smart arise. Come a fire and you'll find it's not to smart.

yllw.ldbttr · 06-04-2016 07:58PM

ted1 wrote: »

You asked for an alternative smart arise. Come a fire and you'll find it's not to smart.

Cheers.
I posted in a thread about a smart device, where I referenced three alternative smart devices.

But thanks for your contribution.

ted1 · 06-04-2016 08:08PM

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

Cheers.
I posted in a thread about a smart device, where I referenced three alternative smart devices.

But thanks for your contribution.

Any smart fire alarm should not rely on wifi or an Internet connection, there needs to be refudancy built in, ine way of doing this is to integrate SIgfox etc.
Bottom line is all these smart fire alarms are not thought through and are gimmicks that have serious design flaws for when they are actually needed.
If your wifi is down due to signal interface, power supply etc gone what are they going to do ?

MaceFace · 06-04-2016 08:15PM

ted1 wrote: »

Any smart fire alarm should not rely on wifi or an Internet connection, there needs to be refudancy built in, ine way of doing this is to integrate SIgfox etc.
Bottom line is all these smart fire alarms are not thought through and are gimmicks that have serious design flaws for when they are actually needed.
If your wifi is down due to signal interface, power supply etc gone what are they going to do ?

Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Best protect have all the safe guards as a normal smoke alarm, including battery backup.

Just because you don't understand the products or don't buy into what they offer does not mean others don't find value.

Electric Ireland - Free Nest Heating Thermostat + Installation

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