General Rugby Discussion

sheep? · 03-04-2016 12:17PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

I agree. However after listening to it I genuinely don't think Poite was cursing him back. He was repeating what the player had said and saying he would report it.

Edit: this is what I hear (which is obviously open to correction by better French speakers than myself)

Poite: ...c'est la septième fois.
Tian: Tu fais chier. Y'a rien.
Poite: Venez là, venez là. "Tu fais chier?!" (shows him red card). Là-bas, là-bas. [note Poite doesn't say viens là, viens là, so the use of "tu" indicates he is repeating what Tian said IMO]
Tian: (continues to abuse ref)
Poite: Ouais, ouais, pas de problème. Pas de problème.
Tian: (continues to abuse ref). Commentators: oh là, c'est Silvère Tian qui a complèment dépité (?) là-dessus
Poite: tu consigneras "je vais te choper après, fils de pute", tu consigneras (I'm not sure exactly about this, not least because tu consigneras would be Poite changing from vous to tu, but the noise of the commentators makes it hard...)
Commentators: Il a complètement dégoupillé là Silvère Tian

Eh, ou es la bibliotheque? :P

pickarooney · 03-04-2016 12:32PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

I agree. However after listening to it I genuinely don't think Poite was cursing him back. He was repeating what the player had said and saying he would report it.

Edit: this is what I hear (which is obviously open to correction by better French speakers than myself)

Poite: ...c'est la septième fois.
Tian: Tu fais chier. Y'a rien.
Poite: Venez là, venez là. "Tu fais chier?!" (shows him red card). Là-bas, là-bas. [note Poite doesn't say viens là, viens là, so the use of "tu" indicates he is repeating what Tian said IMO]
Tian: (continues to abuse ref)
Poite: Ouais, ouais, pas de problème. Pas de problème.
Tian: (continues to abuse ref). Commentators: oh là, c'est Silvère Tian qui a complèment dépité (?) là-dessus
Poite: tu consigneras "je vais te choper après, fils de pute", tu consigneras (I'm not sure exactly about this, not least because tu consigneras would be Poite changing from vous to tu, but the noise of the commentators makes it hard...)
Commentators: Il a complètement dégoupillé là Silvère Tian

'Tu consigneras' is Poite asking the assistant ref to confirm what the AR said he heard as Tian was walking off the pitch.

swiwi_ · 03-04-2016 04:33PM

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irish-fans-favourite-referee-romain-poite-escorted-off-the-field-as-furious-player-is-restrained-34594304.html

As an aside the indo's article is in poor taste imo.

Opening sentence suggesting that because of a few calls against Irish sides down the years, it was only a matter of time before a player called Poite "a son of a bìtch/fùcking bastard etc" as if that justifies it.

I must say when you Irish get a chip on your shoulder, you do it well.

I'll be intrigued to see what ban is handed down.

Bazzo · 03-04-2016 04:41PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irish-fans-favourite-referee-romain-poite-escorted-off-the-field-as-furious-player-is-restrained-34594304.html

As an aside the indo's article is in poor taste imo.

Opening sentence suggesting that because of a few calls against Irish sides down the years, it was only a matter of time before a player called Poite "a son of a bìtch/fùcking bastard etc" as if that justifies it.

I must say when you Irish get a chip on your shoulder, you do it well.

I'll be intrigued to see what ban is handed down.

Applies to 95% of articles in the Independent...

Pink Fairy · 03-04-2016 04:57PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irish-fans-favourite-referee-romain-poite-escorted-off-the-field-as-furious-player-is-restrained-34594304.html

As an aside the indo's article is in poor taste imo.

Opening sentence suggesting that because of a few calls against Irish sides down the years, it was only a matter of time before a player called Poite "a son of a bìtch/fùcking bastard etc" as if that justifies it.

I must say when you Irish get a chip on your shoulder, you do it well.

I'll be intrigued to see what ban is handed down.

By and large, the standard of refereeing this season has been shocking, whether you agree with it or not, referees are going to start coming under more scrutiny during games and I think players will start to make their feelings known during games rather than afterwards.
imo, as long as there are laws that are open to interpretation, then it's going to leave players frustrated with some refs nonsensical decisions, and what with the money that's being pumped into the game, and the fine line between winning and losing, next season could be an uncomfortable one for refs

CatFromHue · 03-04-2016 05:00PM

That's an online article and they nearly always are very click baitey.

swiwi_ · 03-04-2016 05:04PM

Pink Fairy wrote: »

By and large, the standard of refereeing this season has been shocking, whether you agree with it or not, referees are going to start coming under more scrutiny during games and I think players will start to make their feelings known during games rather than afterwards.
imo, as long as there are laws that are open to interpretation, then it's going to leave players frustrated with some refs nonsensical decisions, and what with the money that's being pumped into the game, and the fine line between winning and losing, next season could be an uncomfortable one for refs

There is absolutely no justification for that sort of behaviour. There are systems in place to deal with poorly performing refs, but it doesn't involve players losing their rag and firing off expletives directed directly at the referee like that.

You are welcome to condone such behaviour in the teams you support, you'll be enjoying more than your share of 14-man performances, and players on lengthy bans.

I'm not necessarily surprised by your views I must say.

CatFromHue · 03-04-2016 05:05PM

Pink Fairy wrote: »

By and large, the standard of refereeing this season has been shocking, whether you agree with it or not, referees are going to start coming under more scrutiny during games and I think players will start to make their feelings known during games rather than afterwards.
imo, as long as there are laws that are open to interpretation, then it's going to leave players frustrated with some refs nonsensical decisions, and what with the money that's being pumped into the game, and the fine line between winning and losing, next season could be an uncomfortable one for refs

I'm not sure it's been shocking, their decisions have been extremely analysed by biased pundits and the ref gets the flack for it even if the ref is right.

For example the penalty that Scotland gave away to Oz in the RWC that won the game for Oz

1) it looked the correct decision in real time
2) from where the ref was standing it defo looked the correct decision
3) the ref can't go to the TMO for it
4) when you watched it back a Scottish player did play the ball in an offside position

Think about all the flack Rolland got for sending off Warburton too when it was a perfect example of a text book red card.

Or the flack Clancy got for giving the try against Connacht in the RDS when he was in a perfect position to see the grounding.

Yeah sure refs get stuff wrong but alot of stuff they get right they get abuse for as their decision doesn't suit some people

Stheno · 03-04-2016 05:06PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

Not at all. My impression from the dialogue is Poite repeats what the Oyonnax player has just said rather than calling him a "fils de pute" himself. Poite says he will report afterwards (signaler) what was said ie "je vais te choper, fils de pute". Effectively "I'll bring you down, you f*ck*n bastard".

Lengthy ban to follow. And good riddance.

Edit: Maximum sanction for verbal abuse 52 weeks, but for threatening action or words 260 weeks. I reckon they might go with the latter charge. I'm expecting 6 months minimum ban, but longer to set a example wouldn't surprise me. A paltry sentence, and knowing the French as I do, I could see a referees' strike.

So poite didn't dish out the suggested abuse?

swiwi_ · 03-04-2016 05:11PM

Stheno wrote: »

So poite didn't dish out the suggested abuse?

No!!!

I don't even know whether actual decision itself was wrong, not that it matters.

swiwi_ · 03-04-2016 05:14PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not sure it's been shocking, their decisions have been extremely analysed by biased pundits and the ref gets the flack for it even if the ref is right.

For example the penalty that Scotland gave away to Oz in the RWC that won the game for Oz

1) it looked the correct decision in real time
2) from where the ref was standing it defo looked the correct decision
3) the ref can't go to the TMO for it
4) when you watched it back a Scottish player did play the ball in an offside position

Think about all the flack Rolland got for sending off Warburton too when it was a perfect example of a text book red card.

Or the flack Clancy got for giving the try against Connacht in the RDS when he was in a perfect position to see the grounding.

Yeah sure refs get stuff wrong but alot of stuff they get right they get abuse for as their decision doesn't suit some people

The vast majority of fans hold refs to higher standards than players: ie absolutely no mistakes are permitted (unless it favours your team, of course).

I think this forum would be a more pleasant place if people just accepted refs are human and therefore fallible.

03-04-2016 05:28PM

The French are absolute jokes when it comes to disciplinary matters so I don't have much faith it'll happen but that Oyannax player should be banned for a very very very long time.

Pink Fairy · 03-04-2016 06:16PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

There is absolutely no justification for that sort of behaviour. There are systems in place to deal with poorly performing refs, but it doesn't involve players losing their rag and firing off expletives directed directly at the referee like that.

You are welcome to condone such behaviour in the teams you support, you'll be enjoying more than your share of 14-man performances, and players on lengthy bans.

I'm not necessarily surprised by your views I must say.

:rolleyes:
I don't condone the actions,
The poor performances of refs are because of the laws being open to interpretation
And since you have misread everything as usual, good luck

neelia11 · 03-04-2016 06:18PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

The vast majority of fans hold refs to higher standards than players: ie absolutely no mistakes are permitted (unless it favours your team, of course).

I think this forum would be a more pleasant place if people just accepted refs are human and therefore fallible.

what irks me about refs is the most obvious stuff. Look at yesterday as an example. Zebo appears to slap the ball out of play and despite the leinster player protests the ref doesnt even check. Then there was the Saili one.

The other one is the warnings they give then dont act at times.

Stheno · 03-04-2016 06:21PM

neelia11 wrote: »

The other one is the warnings they give then dont act at times.

This drives me nuts

Pink Fairy · 03-04-2016 06:26PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not sure it's been shocking, their decisions have been extremely analysed by biased pundits and the ref gets the flack for it even if the ref is right.

For example the penalty that Scotland gave away to Oz in the RWC that won the game for Oz

1) it looked the correct decision in real time
2) from where the ref was standing it defo looked the correct decision
3) the ref can't go to the TMO for it
4) when you watched it back a Scottish player did play the ball in an offside position

Think about all the flack Rolland got for sending off Warburton too when it was a perfect example of a text book red card.

Or the flack Clancy got for giving the try against Connacht in the RDS when he was in a perfect position to see the grounding.

Yeah sure refs get stuff wrong but alot of stuff they get right they get abuse for as their decision doesn't suit some people

You've pointed out 1 high profile case where the ref missed a fairly obvious penalty....he may not have been in the most ideal position to see it, but his assistants should have, everybody in the ground seemed to see it too?
But, leaving that aside, refs are making way too many mistakes in games this season. We have an amount of referees that aren't good enough officiating in big matches and that's simply unacceptable

irishbucsfan · 03-04-2016 06:27PM

neelia11 wrote: »

what irks me about refs is the most obvious stuff. Look at yesterday as an example. Zebo appears to slap the ball out of play and despite the leinster player protests the ref doesnt even check. Then there was the Saili one.

The other one is the warnings they give then dont act at times.

Do you not mean the Sailli one where the ref gave a penalty?

It should go without saying that these refs deserve a lot of respect in the face of often completely misinformed abuse. A lot of the critics really should try it out for themselves and they might gain a bit of appreciation for why the top rated refs are held in such high regard.

neelia11 · 03-04-2016 06:29PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Do you not mean the Sailli one where the ref gave a penalty?

It should go without saying that these refs deserve a lot of respect in the face of often completely misinformed abuse. A lot of the critics really should try it out for themselves and they might gain a bit of appreciation for why the top rated refs are held in such high regard.

but that should be a card. The ref warns the player to get out of the way and he gets up and kicks the ball away from the ruck. Its the cynical stuff which takes any pace out of the game which makes them very stop start. If the players knew they would get a YC for this stuff by consistent officiating then it would stop.

irishbucsfan · 03-04-2016 06:39PM

neelia11 wrote: »

but that should be a card. The ref warns the player to get out of the way and he gets up and kicks the ball away from the ruck. Its the cynical stuff which takes any pace out of the game which makes them very stop start. If the players knew they would get a YC for this stuff by consistent officiating then it would stop.

Nah, it's not necessarily a card. There was no pace in the game anyway on that phase. The only card that was missed was Zebo's on half time

CatFromHue · 03-04-2016 06:39PM

Pink Fairy wrote: »

You've pointed out 1 high profile case where the ref missed a fairly obvious penalty....he may not have been in the most ideal position to see it, but his assistants should have, everybody in the ground seemed to see it too?
But, leaving that aside, refs are making way too many mistakes in games this season. We have an amount of referees that aren't good enough officiating in big matches and that's simply unacceptable

Which one was where the ref missed an obvious penalty

For the Scot - Oz one the ref was in the best position out of all the officials too but he can't be in the exact best position all the time in such a fluid game with 30 players.

Here is the thing that confuses me with what you're saying too. The refs we have at the moment are the best available, if you replace them you're replacing them with inferior refs.

I personally think refs aren't as bad as people make them out to be either. In every match thread there's loads of comments about the ref being ****e, some before the game even kicks off where the person is just watching the ref hoping they make a mistake so they can say I told you so, but when I'm watching the game I see the ref being correct an awful lot of the time. One of the prime examples Clancy giving the try for Leinster against Connacht where even Trevor Hogan on Off the Ball was humming and hawing but the more I listened to him I realised he didn't know the rules.

Pink Fairy · 03-04-2016 06:52PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

Which one was where the ref missed an obvious penalty

For the Scot - Oz one the ref was in the best position out of all the officials too but he can't be in the exact best position all the time in such a fluid game with 30 players.

Here is the thing that confuses me with what you're saying too. The refs we have at the moment are the best available, if you replace them you're replacing them with inferior refs.

I personally think refs aren't as bad as people make them out to be either. In every match thread there's loads of comments about the ref being ****e, some before the game even kicks off where the person is just watching the ref hoping they make a mistake so they can say I told you so, but when I'm watching the game I see the ref being correct an awful lot of the time. One of the prime examples Clancy giving the try for Leinster against Connacht where even Trevor Hogan on Off the Ball was humming and hawing but the more I listened to him I realised he didn't know the rules.

I'll try and clarify what I'm saying as people may have missed my original point.
You use the word rules above, that's incorrect... There are laws in rugby, and they are open to interpretation....This is where the problem lies imo, we have too many personal interpretations of these laws, players find something is totally legal with 1 ref, but gets a pen called with another.
Some refs can work wonderfully well within these laws and the game flows brilliantly, others, not so much .
Some referees are universally loved, some are young and are going to make mistakes, and yes they have to find their feet, but other have been around for quite a while and just seem to stumble from one balls up to another

CatFromHue · 03-04-2016 07:05PM

Ok but in the cases I mentioned it didn't come down to interpretation of the laws/rules/whatever they were very straight forward cases but the refs got flack for making the right call.

Tbh I think the different refs interpret the laws differently, bar NH v SH, meaning players are unsure what's happening doesn't happen as much as people think. Yeah it is a case for some calls but not for most of them I'd say. I think most of the calls a ref has to make are for players just getting it wrong.

Yeah_Right · 03-04-2016 07:24PM

neelia11 wrote: »

what irks me about refs is the most obvious stuff. Look at yesterday as an example. Zebo appears to slap the ball out of play and despite the leinster player protests the ref doesnt even check.

I don't believe the ref was allowed to go to the TMO for that.

CatFromHue · 03-04-2016 07:46PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I don't believe the ref was allowed to go to the TMO for that.

that's true

The TMO can be used only in the following circumstances:

Determining the grounding of the ball in-goal for a try or touchdown and/or whether players were in touch or touch in goal before grounding

Determining whether a kick at goal has been successful

Confirm if an infringement has occurred in the build-up to a try or prevention of a try (infringement must be within two phases of the try or touchdown)

Considering acts of possible foul play

Foul play is considered fighting or stuff like that

swiwi_ · 03-04-2016 08:13PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

that's true

Foul play is considered fighting or stuff like that

So it kind of proves your point. A poster complains that the ref should have gone to the TMO to check about Zebo possibly batting the ball out...but isn't up to speed with the TMO regulations themselves.

I didn't think he was too bad, probably a bit lax on the offsides and maybe a bit at ruck time. But the ruck is a lottery anyway.

neelia11 · 03-04-2016 08:15PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

So it kind of proves your point. A poster complains that the ref should have gone to the TMO to check about Zebo possibly batting the ball out...but isn't up to speed with the TMO regulations themselves.

I didn't think he was too bad, probably a bit lax on the offsides and maybe a bit at ruck time. But the ruck is a lottery anyway.

well the ref can check deliberate knock ons and they arent always in the defenders 22.

sydthebeat · 03-04-2016 08:19PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

So it kind of proves your point. A poster complains that the ref should have gone to the TMO to check about Zebo possibly batting the ball out...but isn't up to speed with the TMO regulations themselves.
.

I'm pretty sure zebos incident would come in under "prevention of a try"

sheep? · 03-04-2016 08:20PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

I'm pretty sure slappy zebos incident would come in under "prevention of a try"

ahem

03-04-2016 08:28PM

Zebo slapping the ball could surely be classed as possibly preventing a try?

irishbucsfan · 03-04-2016 08:32PM

Ah yeah the referee could have checked on the slappy zebo incident. That one was a miss from him and the AR.

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