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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #7172
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I personally think that if this continues or gets markedly worse, then Europe will see internment as an option. You simply cant deal with this stuff through conventional civil justice

    No, we are far too gone as a people (in terms of press, education, politicians etc) down the path of political correctness for that to happen. The concept of borders are viewed as a violent and racist anathema by our EU overlords and many of our own politicians. More likely it will be the silent erosion of OUR rights, increased security for us, because god forbid the security services are seen as racist.

    Physical solutions are the answer, rendition, land and maritime border enforcement, forced deportations, stripping citizenship etc. None of that will happen in the foreseeable future, we have gotten sated and lazy, we take our rights and way of life as a given, its only the Eastern Euro states who suffered under communism who will survive(until the CIA intervenes as they did in the Balkans)


  • #7173
    ilkhanid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,255 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    volchitsa wrote: »
    The IRA always had some Protestant members, even during the Troubles - and there was no expectation that they would convert. How many non Muslims would you expect to find among Islamic terrorists?

    You could say though that the common denominator was being Irish. And you would have a point.

    To be precise:How many non-Sunni Muslims would you expect to find among Islamic terrorists? None and one can say that without qualification.
    old_aussie wrote: »
    If muslims don't know what the true version of islam is, then how can they say IS is NOT the true version.
    Just because the majority say that IS is wrong doesn't make it true.
    The majority of people once believed that the earth was flat and that didn't make the earth flat, NO they were ALL WRONG

    Can we make one thing clear. This is religion. This is not geology or entomology. So there can be no ultimate truth, no one person or group can be the ultimare arbiters of an religion-or ideology or philosophy for that matter. There is no revealed truth or can ever be. In religion things change. In 1907 Pope Pius the Tenth attacked modernism. Now his views are derided, but then they were accepted by Catholics worldwide. But in the end, it doesn't matter;there is no final standard by which we can declare Pius wrong or Francis right. Those who control the institution make the rules. Those who control the interpretations set the standard. In the end, there is no special essence of Islam that we can grasp or that debate can reveal. In short Islam is what Muslims say and do.
    Nodin wrote: »
    Muslims can't agree the "true version", so I'm not going to think I can do one better. As the vast majority of muslims and muslim scholars think IS are wrong and don't do what they do I'll take their actions over others opnions.

    As the vast majority of Muslim theologians are hair-splitting fools I doubt that their opinion on anything has a shred of credibility. "Venerable" institutions like the Al-Azhar in Cairo have wasted their time on nonsense like this....
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rada_%28fiqh%29
    Do I have to remind everybody that among those Islamic "thinkers" who condemned Is were the so-called Council of Senior Scholars of Saudi Arabia-highly influential in the Muslim world- whose other ideas are that women can't drive vehicles and that witches should be beheaded. The words and actions of fools and fanatics are so much worthless trash and I wouldn't take their actions or words over that of a junkie standing mumbling outside a methadone clinic.
    Billy86 wrote: »
    I would say the fact that slavery exists still today, and did after the civil war would say, no, beyond a shadow of a doubt.
    Homophobia and slavery are about as dead as you and I.

    That sounds like a ridiculously absolutist position. We're not dealing with smallpox here where it's not declared at an end until the last cell is safe in a phial in the CDC. So because the USA failed the destroy all slavery everywhere the Civil War was futile. That's nonsense. The American assault on the Barbary pirates, Lincoln's War and British campaign against slavers ended slavery in the western Hemisphere to all intents and purposes. That's a pretty good and useful result. The Second World War didn't end Nazism completely for that matter, but I still consider it worthwhile.


  • #7174
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    fr336 wrote: »
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    true, but open civil democracies have very little option as to what ti do when presented with situations of this type. If you retain the feature of an open EU , free movement of people, no internal borders, a relatively free society, then you rapidly end up with a funnel of options and at the end is internment ( or mass deportation , which is somewhat the same )

    its no more then the US did to its Japanese citizens during ww2 and in fact its been used throughput history with some albeit temporary benefits

    Im not saying it fixes everything, but ultimately you either remove all civil freedoms for all civilians and in effect bring martial law onto the streets, or you simply lock up based on profiling

    of course the alternative is what we have now, a passive acceptance that people just get killed randomly


  • #7175
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,107 ✭✭✭Christy42


    BoatMad wrote: »

    its no more then the US did to its Japanese citizens during ww2 and in fact its been used throughput history with some albeit temporary benefits

    Not generally thought as have being a good idea these days.


  • #7176
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    ilkhanid wrote: »
    That sounds like a ridiculously absolutist position. We're not dealing with smallpox here where it's not declared at an end until the last cell is safe in a phial in the CDC. So because the USA failed the destroy all slavery everywhere the Civil War was futile. That's nonsense. The American assault on the Barbary pirates, Lincoln's War and British campaign against slavers ended slavery in the western Hemisphere to all intents and purposes. That's a pretty good and useful result. The Second World War didn't end Nazism completely for that matter, but I still consider it worthwhile.
    Not at all - there are still parts of the world where slavery and homophobia are seen as the norm... but not in Ireland. No different to terrorism or extremism. The Nazi's didn't magically die off when Hitler pulled the trigger on himself, public opinion from within when they saw the extent of everything played a much further role. If the German people still wanted Nazism at that point, it would not have gone away. It's not like the moment the Nazi's surrendered, the German people all took a quick 180 and realised what had been happening was wrong after all.


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