Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VII: The Fan-base Awakens

dub_skav · 30-03-2016 03:57PM

brokenhooker wrote: »

because they aren't good enough in attack minus Sexton against a team who is half decent.

only part of the team that is adequately coached is the defense.

They have 10 tries in 8 league games against the top half of the table. Including 3 tries against the 2 teams that you are calling them out for not scoring tries against.

They are 5th in points for, 6th in tries for, while being comfortably 1st in tries against.
Nobody is going to mistake Leinster for the harlem globetrotters, but they are a very good team and rightly among the favourites to win the league.
Your choice of a very strange time period and phrasing in an attempt to have a go at Leinster is a little odd, that's all.

30-03-2016 03:58PM

brokenhooker wrote: »

because they aren't good enough in attack minus Sexton against a team who is half decent.

only part of the team that is adequately coached is the defense.

No, its because its the rules of the game

CMOTDibbler · 30-03-2016 04:00PM

dub_skav wrote: »

They have 10 tries in 8 league games against the top half of the table. Including 3 tries against the 2 teams that you are calling them out for not scoring tries against.

They are 5th in points for, 6th in tries for, while being comfortably 1st in tries against.
Nobody is going to mistake Leinster for the harlem globetrotters, but they are a very good team and rightly among the favourites to win the league.
Your choice of a very strange time period and phrasing in an attempt to have a go at Leinster is a little odd, that's all.

Why do people equate running rugby to the Harlem Globetrotters? If a rugby team played like the Globetrotters there'd be scrums from minute 1 to minute 80.

dub_skav · 30-03-2016 04:03PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Why do people equate running rugby to the Harlem Globetrotters? If a rugby team played like the Globetrotters there'd be scrums from minute 1 to minute 80.

Where did I mention running rugby?

I merely meant that their propensity for the use of ladders and trampolines is low.

brokenhooker · 30-03-2016 04:20PM

it's painfully obvious that our attack has been very poor this season - we' ve scored 38 tries all season vs 50 for Connacht with a supposedly more talented backline. Similarly in the European Cup we had the worst try scoring record in the entire tournament - a tournament that included Treviso! We have real issues in attack and we're generally easy enough to defend against

whatawaster · 30-03-2016 04:36PM

brokenhooker wrote: »

it's painfully obvious that our attack has been very poor this season - we' ve scored 38 tries all season vs 50 for Connacht with a supposedly more talented backline. Similarly in the European Cup we had the worst try scoring record in the entire tournament - a tournament that included Treviso! We have real issues in attack and we're generally easy enough to defend against

I think our attack has been alright this season - good in patches, terrible in patches, but mostly alright. I think it has definitely improved on last season.

In the European Cup we scored nearly as many points as Toulon! Our defense was clearly the problem, but even so, that game against Wasps was a bit of an outlier and other than that we were very competitive. If we drew that same group next season I would expect a much better performance from Leinster. I don't think Wasps or Bath are much better teams than Leinster.

It has been both a disrupted season and a transitional one.
Disrupted because we had the World Cup on top of the Six Nations. Leinster and Glasgow are the two most affected teams in Europe by these competitions and have 38 and 37 tries respectively. I don't see Glasgow as a team who have problems attacking. It has just been a difficult season for them.

Transitional because of the new coaching team and a lot of new players. But happily we have seen the growth of a lot of young players. Ringrose, McGrath, Furlong, Van Der Flier, Leavy, Tracy, Moloney and even Marsh, Byrne and Kelleher could all be mainstays of the team for the best part of the next decade.

Clegg · 30-03-2016 04:39PM

Really can't see anything other than a Leinster victory on Saturday. They've a stronger starting 15 and bench.

Of course this means Munster are sure to win.

CMOTDibbler · 30-03-2016 05:05PM

brokenhooker wrote: »

it's painfully obvious that our attack has been very poor this season - we' ve scored 38 tries all season vs 50 for Connacht with a supposedly more talented backline. Similarly in the European Cup we had the worst try scoring record in the entire tournament - a tournament that included Treviso! We have real issues in attack and we're generally easy enough to defend against

Hmmm. Cardiff Blues have scored 51 tries this season and are in 8th position. Munster have scored 44 and Ulster 43. Tries scored is a useful metric, but it's not the whole story.

I like our points difference better tbh. 151 against the next best; Ulster with 99.

leakyboots · 30-03-2016 06:39PM

I think both teams are evenly enough matched - Leinster have the better front row and scrum as a unit, and on what looks like will be a pisser of a night, that could be the difference

Would love if Healy was named to start 'cos I think he's not where he used to be by a long shot.

I'm hoping Billy Holland is named in the 2nd row, him and Ryan could shade it there. Backrow clash is TASTY. CJ will no doubt be a marked man which will free up TOD and JOD to do their thing. Excited to see how both rows fare here.

We've the superior 9 but Leinster the 10.

Centre clash is tasty too - I'm hoping for a big game from Rory Scannell to show people what he can do - this could be where he announces his arrival 'cos he's been very impressive all season, Saili is great going forward. Teo will ask questions no doubt.

Earls is the pick of the wingers but we could have a newbie in Sweetnam on the other wing (should be there on form but I think it could be Zebo with Conway at 15). Would prefer to see Zebo at 15 but I don't think it'll be a night for the back 3 anyway.

Form generally counts for little in these interpros so a bit hard to call. I'm feeling reasonably optimistic about Munster winning... but, as so often this season, they let us down when it looks like they should kick on. Promising signs recently in attack but I think the weather will negate any gains we've been making in our backplay. Will wait for the full 23s but at this juncture heart says Munster, head says Leinster will sneak it

Podge_irl · 30-03-2016 06:48PM

leakyboots wrote: »

Form generally counts for little in these interpros

Is that really true? I think the games have generally gone fairly close to what you would expect form-wise. I would certainly expect Leinster to win this.

leakyboots · 30-03-2016 08:28PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Is that really true? I think the games have generally gone fairly close to what you would expect form-wise. I would certainly expect Leinster to win this.

Exhibit A historically, Connacht.

Anyway, are Leinster in that good form recently?

Edit - haven't scored a try in 3 games

Podge_irl · 30-03-2016 09:18PM

leakyboots wrote: »

Exhibit A historically, Connacht.

Anyway, are Leinster in that good form recently?

Edit - haven't scored a try in 3 games

Ah, I was more thinking just Leinster Munster games. Connacht are always a pain in the ass for Leinster, much more so than they are for any other province.

Leinster aren't in amazing form no, but with Sexton back at 10 they are a completely different team.

former total · 30-03-2016 10:25PM

leakyboots wrote: »

Exhibit A historically, Connacht.

Anyway, are Leinster in that good form recently?

Edit - haven't scored a try in 3 games

It's 2 games but hey, who's counting?

Connacht are proof incarnate that interpros usually go according to form. They have spent most of their existence getting beaten by the others, but their general upturn has coincided with improved interpro results this season.

Leinster are in better form, are at home and will have a stronger team out than they did against Connacht. They'll definitely be favourites.

KingBrian2 · 30-03-2016 11:12PM

brokenhooker wrote: »

it's painfully obvious that our attack has been very poor this season - we' ve scored 38 tries all season vs 50 for Connacht with a supposedly more talented backline. Similarly in the European Cup we had the worst try scoring record in the entire tournament - a tournament that included Treviso! We have real issues in attack and we're generally easy enough to defend against

Wow! That a really good performance from Connacht. We did edge ahead of Munster not by much but still that was great.

brokenhooker · 31-03-2016 09:02AM

former total wrote: »

It's 2 games but hey, who's counting?

Connacht are proof incarnate that interpros usually go according to form. They have spent most of their existence getting beaten by the others, but their general upturn has coincided with improved interpro results this season.

Leinster are in better form, are at home and will have a stronger team out than they did against Connacht. They'll definitely be favourites.

Leinster are in better form? they are in my bollix, they were clueless, lacked skill and ambition against Connacht.

such a poorly coached side, playing dross rugby.

whatawaster · 31-03-2016 09:04AM

brokenhooker wrote: »

Leinster are in better form? they are in my bollix, they were clueless, lacked skill and ambition against Connacht.

such a poorly coached side, playing dross rugby.

Leinster have been better than Munster all season and look much better coached.

brokenhooker · 31-03-2016 09:14AM

whatawaster wrote: »

Leinster have been better than Munster all season and look much better coached.

Leinster are struggling for form all year, have struggled to score against sides that are half decent, were poor in europe. This isn't some great Leinster side, it's bang average due to coaching, lack of game intelligence and skill level.

They might beat Munster at the weekend but it will be a fight between who is least incompetent.

Podge_irl · 31-03-2016 09:15AM

brokenhooker wrote: »

Leinster are struggling for form all year, have struggled to score against sides that are half decent, were poor in europe. This isn't some great Leinster side, it's bang average due to coaching, lack of game intelligence and skill level.

They might beat Munster at the weekend but it will be a fight between who is least incompetent.

Weird how they've managed to win as many games as the almighty Connacht while suffering a lot more disruption then.

DGRulz · 31-03-2016 09:16AM

brokenhooker wrote: »

Leinster are struggling for form all year, have struggled to score against sides that are half decent, were poor in europe. This isn't some great Leinster side, it's bang average due to coaching, lack of game intelligence and skill level.

They might beat Munster at the weekend but it will be a fight between who is least incompetent.

And yet somehow, some way, they've won 13/18 league games and lie in second on the table, only behind by 4 point. Such a horrible side ...

brokenhooker · 31-03-2016 09:25AM

DGRulz wrote: »

And yet somehow, some way, they've won 13/18 league games and lie in second on the table, only behind by 4 point. Such a horrible side ...

you realise the pro 12 is a poor league with maybe 6 decent sides?

31-03-2016 09:26AM

brokenhooker wrote: »

you realise the pro 12 is a poor league with maybe 6 decent sides?

What metric are you testing Munster and Connacht against so? I thought they also played in the same league against those same sides.

brokenhooker · 31-03-2016 09:26AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Weird how they've managed to win as many games as the almighty Connacht while suffering a lot more disruption then.

who said Connacht are a great side? certainly not me, they do play better rugby than Leinster though. But they are an awful defensive side, not that it mattered when facing leinster, as leinster made them look like some defensive wizes.

31-03-2016 09:27AM

brokenhooker wrote: »

you realise the pro 12 is a poor league with maybe 6 decent sides?

Pro12 has consistently provided winning sides and finalists in Europe over the last 10 years. Bit of a fallow period right now but Leinster were a drop goal away from being in the ERC finals last year and didn't even make top 4 in the pro12.

You are being a bit hyper negative.

brokenhooker · 31-03-2016 09:28AM

Deleted User wrote: »

What metric are you testing Munster and Connacht against so? I thought they also played in the same league against those same sides.

Both are decent sides but nothing great in comparison to club sides throughout europe. Leinster are just as average, better in defense but worse in attack. Just as poor skill wise as Munster, worse than Connacht.

brokenhooker · 31-03-2016 09:29AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Pro12 has consistently provided winning sides and finalists in Europe over the last 10 years. Bit of a fallow period right now but Leinster were a drop goal away from being in the ERC finals last year and didn't even make top 4 in the pro12.

You are being a bit hyper negative.

the league is in a "fallow period", come on, it's downright poor and beating up on sides like Zebre prove it. Top 6 are a bunch of average sides, the rest are poor at best.

i'm being realistic, minus Sexton Leinster are clueless on the field and lack good decision makers and players of high skill level executing at a consistent level. The "attaack" last weekend was an insult to former teams and how leinster used to play.

DGRulz · 31-03-2016 09:31AM

brokenhooker wrote: »

Both are decent sides but nothing great in comparison to club sides throughout europe. Leinster are just as average, better defense but worse in attack. Just as poor skill wise as Munster, worse than Connacht.

What clubs would these be? just so we're clear.

CMOTDibbler · 31-03-2016 09:35AM

brokenhooker wrote: »

Leinster are in better form? they are in my bollix, they were clueless, lacked skill and ambition against Connacht.

such a poorly coached side, playing dross rugby.

You seriously believe that? Leinster have exactly the same wins and losses as Connacht and the only difference is in bonus points. This despite the fact that half the squad have been missing through the RWC and the 6N and have still managed to carry a points difference unmatched by any other team in the Pro 12.

Nobody's saying that they're the best in the league, but with a new coaching team and the disruption caused by absences, the current league position is far better than it was last season.

But let's look at form shall we?

Round|Leinster|Munster
Round 9 |Glasgow 12 - 6 Leinster*|N/A
Round 11|Leinster 13 - 0 Connacht|Ulster 7 - 9 Munster
Round 12|Ospreys 9 - 22 Leinster|Cardiff 37 - 28 Munster*
Round 13|Dragons 23 - 13 Leinster|Zebre 12 - 16 Munster
Round 14|Leinster 52 - 0 Zebre|Munster 17 -21 Ospreys
Round 15|Cardiff 13 -14 Leinster|Glasgow 27 - 24 Munster
Round 16|Zebre 10 - 27 Leinster|Treviso 13 - 16 Munster
Round 17|Leinster 19 - 16 Ospreys|Munster 26 - 5 Dragons
Round 18|Connacht 7 - 6 Leinster|Munster 47 - 0 Zebre

*Postponed matches played out of sequence

So Munster have lost half of their matches (4) since the new year and Leinster one third (3).

brokenhooker wrote: »

Both are decent sides but nothing great in comparison to club sides throughout europe. Leinster are just as average, better in defense but worse in attack. Just as poor skill wise as Munster, worse than Connacht.

Your original comment was in the context of the Pro 12 and the relative form of Leinster to Munster. You can't suddenly move the goalposts and start comparing Leinster with European club sides when called on it. Comparison with club sides in Europe needs to take into account the spending power of those clubs and the star players they can call on.

brokenhooker · 31-03-2016 09:38AM

DGRulz wrote: »

What clubs would these be? just so we're clear.

Wasps, Saracens, Toulon, Racing to begin with..

31-03-2016 09:41AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You seriously believe that? Leinster have exactly the same wins and losses as Connacht and the only difference is in bonus points. This despite the fact that half the squad have been missing through the RWC and the 6N and have still managed to carry a points difference unmatched by any other team in the Pro 12.
...

To be totally fair to brokenhooker and Connacht in particular, this is a very important metric!

More losing bonus points => When Connacht got beaten it was close
More Tries scored bonus points => Connacht regularly get over the try line. When Connacht beat teams they beat them well.

brokenhooker · 31-03-2016 09:42AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You seriously believe that? Leinster have exactly the same wins and losses as Connacht and the only difference is in bonus points. This despite the fact that half the squad have been missing through the RWC and the 6N and have still managed to carry a points difference unmatched by any other team in the Pro 12.

Nobody's saying that they're the best in the league, but with a new coaching team and the disruption caused by absences, the current league position is far better than it was last season.

But let's look at form shall we?

Round|Leinster|Munster
Round 9 |Glasgow 12 - 6 Leinster*|N/A
Round 11|Leinster 13 - 0 Connacht|Ulster 7 - 9 Munster
Round 12|Ospreys 9 - 22 Leinster|Cardiff 37 - 28 Munster*
Round 13|Dragons 23 - 13 Leinster|Zebre 12 - 16 Munster
Round 14|Leinster 52 - 0 Zebre|Munster 17 -21 Ospreys
Round 15|Cardiff 13 -14 Leinster|Glasgow 27 - 24 Munster
Round 16|Zebre 10 - 27 Leinster|Treviso 13 - 16 Munster
Round 17|Leinster 19 - 16 Ospreys|Munster 26 - 5 Dragons
Round 18|Connacht 7 - 6 Leinster|Munster 47 - 0 Zebre

*Postponed matches played out of sequence

So Munster have lost half of their matches (4) since the new year and Leinster one third (3).

Munster have won their last three, Leinster have lost their last two.

Leinster have scored 1 try in 3 games, Munster have scored 12 tries in 3 games.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VII: The Fan-base Awakens

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