Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Dawggone · 28-03-2016 02:08PM

C0N0R wrote: »

As in too much protein is been degraded in the rumen??

Yep.
Rapeseed, distillers etc should never be fed with grass.

Dawggone · 28-03-2016 02:13PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Soya bean meal protein source, don't really want to push them any harder 90% of the herd is in lovely order and well set up for breeding....
Silage will be out of diet in the next few days once weather takes up and they should push on from their

I bet if you gave them access to good quality hay you will see the difference in milk tank.
Of the %soya inclusion in your nut, if it were 75% hi -pro and 25% toasted soya you would nail it. More production with no hit on BCS.

jaymla627 · 28-03-2016 02:27PM

Dawggone wrote: »

I bet if you gave them access to good quality hay you will see the difference in milk tank.
Of the %soya inclusion in your nut, if it were 75% hi -pro and 25% toasted soya you would nail it. More production with no hit on BCS.

Yeah I reckon fibre is a problem with them alright very loose and silage is only 25%dm, ideally would want 40%dm but the weather didn't play ball last may....

Dawggone · 28-03-2016 02:38PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Yeah I reckon fibre is a problem with them alright very loose and silage is only 25%dm, ideally would want 40%dm but the weather didn't play ball last may....

By far the best source of fibre is oilseed rape straw/haulm, and usually can be sourced for next to nothing.

I know it sounds kinda stupid but the two most important things for maxing yield are MU....aaannd how loose cows droppings are!!
Cows too loose and you're not utilizing inputs properly. Fact is everyone milking here has to give an informed report on the cows poo...the Inuit have over 40 words to describe snow and the Irish likewise with rain!

I'll shut up now...:)

yosemitesam1 · 28-03-2016 04:16PM

Think your over rating milk ureas dawgone, there will be a huge variation with different diets, stage of lactation etc. US producers are recommended to aim for about 10-12 and they don't leave many litres behind. That 25-30 is probably based on a low yielding cow on grass only and doesn't take into account feeding a good proportion of meal in early lactation and not relying as much on grass.

pedigree 6 · 28-03-2016 04:36PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Think your over rating milk ureas dawgone, there will be a huge variation with different diets, stage of lactation etc. US producers are recommended to aim for about 10-12 and they don't leave many litres behind. That 25-30 is probably based on a low yielding cow on grass only and doesn't take into account feeding a good proportion of meal in early lactation and not relying as much on grass.

You could be on to something. I feed 3-4 kgs of meal all year and my yield average was 1600 gallons (supplied to coop). I know I prefer low milk urea than high.

Dawggone · 28-03-2016 04:56PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Think your over rating milk ureas dawgone, there will be a huge variation with different diets, stage of lactation etc. US producers are recommended to aim for about 10-12 and they don't leave many litres behind. That 25-30 is probably based on a low yielding cow on grass only and doesn't take into account feeding a good proportion of meal in early lactation and not relying as much on grass.

I'm not.

28 to 32 is the area you need to be.
Doesn't matter one jot whether cow is 50 or 500 days in lactation. It's about protein level in feed. My milk recording also gives an individual reading...
I'm constantly changing Pr feeds between clovers, luzerne etc. and MU reading helps me get it right.
The fact there's so much difference between feeds and even more so, grass, it becomes an excellent indicator. If not some way indicative why bother?

I studied dairy nutrition in Wisconsin and they base Pr. Level on MU...

freedominacup · 28-03-2016 05:20PM

Dawggone wrote: »

I'm not.

28 to 32 is the area you need to be.
Doesn't matter one jot whether cow is 50 or 500 days in lactation. It's about protein level in feed. My milk recording also gives an individual reading...
I'm constantly changing Pr feeds between clovers, luzerne etc. and MU reading helps me get it right.
The fact there's so much difference between feeds and even more so, grass, it becomes an excellent indicator. If not some way indicative why bother?

I studied dairy nutrition in Wisconsin and they base Pr. Level on MU...

Hard to hit that atm. Huge variation collection to collection. Plus it's historic. I won't know what today's mu was until Wed at the soonest.

Dawggone · 28-03-2016 05:31PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Hard to hit that atm. Huge variation collection to collection. Plus it's historic. I won't know what today's mu was until Wed at the soonest.

Exactly right Free. Depends on nitrogen uptake/clovers and so many other factors like weather etc.

The main thing is that MU doesn't go too high during breeding season because cows that were scanned as 35-40 days in calf could come repeating again due to embryo poisoning. Not good. Good growthy weather and rich grass that's running through cows, especially after sulphur application, can be dangerous.
I'm expecting those kind of conditions from next week as temps go over 20, so vigilance will be needed here.

Freejin · 28-03-2016 06:21PM

Is glanbia the only coop providing urea results? Have dairygold any plans to introduce it?

Water John · 28-03-2016 06:25PM

Arrabawn do but I don't think Dairygold.

yosemitesam1 · 28-03-2016 06:36PM

Dawggone wrote: »

I'm not.

28 to 32 is the area you need to be.
Doesn't matter one jot whether cow is 50 or 500 days in lactation. It's about protein level in feed. My milk recording also gives an individual reading...
I'm constantly changing Pr feeds between clovers, luzerne etc. and MU reading helps me get it right.
The fact there's so much difference between feeds and even more so, grass, it becomes an excellent indicator. If not some way indicative why bother?

I studied dairy nutrition in Wisconsin and they base Pr. Level on MU...

There is no one size fits all with milk ureas, aiming for a certain level no matter what diet is made up of is wrong it can only be used in conjunction with feed analysis and animal performance. If your cows are at 25-30 while on a tmr they are pissing away more nitrogen than they should be.

Timmaay · 28-03-2016 06:42PM

In 9days the bulk tank protein has gone from 3.12 to 3.5!!! The only proof I need that grass is king and silage is poison... Butterfat dropped slightly which is expected, and yields up 2l also.

Dawggone · 28-03-2016 07:18PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

There is no one size fits all with milk ureas, aiming for a certain level no matter what diet is made up of is wrong it can only be used in conjunction with feed analysis and animal performance. If your cows are at 25-30 while on a tmr they are pissing away more nitrogen than they should be.

I'm not going to bother Sam (whether eating tmr or grazing spinifex it's the same)

I also do plant tissue analysis on crucial times of plant growth, for optimum yield, not to add more input, but to cut back...same difference, same science.

mf240 · 28-03-2016 07:38PM

There's a lot to learn about nutrition I try to soak up as much info as I can but would of loved to have studied it properly.

Id say the intensive pig men would open your eyes about nutrition.

Think the milk urea is usefull but it seems to vary a lot.

Dawggone · 28-03-2016 07:52PM

mf240 wrote: »

There's a lot to learn about nutrition I try to soak up as much info as I can but would of loved to have studied it properly.

Id say the intensive pig men would open your eyes about nutrition.

Think the milk urea is usefull but it seems to vary a lot.

That's the problem with grazed grass. Goalposts are constantly moving so it's almost impossible to consistently nail it.
When you buy your dairy nut, do you get 12/14/16% pr?
Always hard to call.
I don't feed any pr when on grass, just a maize buffer. Remember when buying your summer dairy nut the Coop/merchant is winning, big. I suppose it's an easy way to feed cal/mag...

The pig men don't buy a nut, they usually buy straights.

freedominacup · 28-03-2016 08:24PM

Dawggone wrote: »

That's the problem with grazed grass. Goalposts are constantly moving so it's almost impossible to consistently nail it.
When you buy your dairy nut, do you get 12/14/16% pr?
Always hard to call.
I don't feed any pr when on grass, just a maize buffer. Remember when buying your summer dairy nut the Coop/merchant is winning, big. I suppose it's an easy way to feed cal/mag...

The pig men don't buy a nut, they usually buy straights.

Explain the merchants winning big. Last year we fed a maize, barley, soya hulls mix from Apr to Aug. 40-40-20. On the right track or throwing money away?

blackdog1 · 28-03-2016 08:53PM

Dawggone wrote: »

That's the problem with grazed grass. Goalposts are constantly moving so it's almost impossible to consistently nail it.
When you buy your dairy nut, do you get 12/14/16% pr?
Always hard to call.
I don't feed any pr when on grass, just a maize buffer. Remember when buying your summer dairy nut the Coop/merchant is winning, big. I suppose it's an easy way to feed cal/mag...

The pig men don't buy a nut, they usually buy straights.

Do you feed no nuts in the parlour when on grass? Just buffer feed maize?

pedigree 6 · 28-03-2016 08:58PM

The reason I thought the milk urea some people were saying was high because I have just come through the best calving season I ever had with a six week calving rate of 79% and an empty rate of 7% with 3 cows left to calve from 50 cows and they'll be calved within a fortnight.

I fed 4kgs of a 14% pr nut during this time and the milk urea was
10 apr 10 2 may 25 22 may 12 april ave 18
12 apr 9 4 may 15 24 may 20 may ave 17
14 apr 19 6 may 23 26 may 10
20 apr 9 8 may 21 28 may 21
24 apr 22 11 may 19 30 may 26
26 apr 17 12 may 19 1 june 19
28 apr 23 16 may 7 5 june 21
30 apr 23 18 may 7 7 june 15
20 may 22 9 june 13

So you can see where i'm coming from.

Dawggone · 28-03-2016 09:04PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Explain the merchants winning big. Last year we fed a maize, barley, soya hulls mix from Apr to Aug. 40-40-20. On the right track or throwing money away?

Excellent mix Free. How much? Straights that you feed through wagon?

Business of farming is my explanation...it's very easy to buy maize now sub €150 , and if you have a chat to your local tillage farmer tomorrow I'm sure he would forward sell you green barley (say 25% moisture) at sub €125...
The dairy farmer is joined at the hip with their nuts suppliers who forward buy at low prices and sell to dairy farmers at premium prices...you're certainly well able to do that business for yourself, just like the pig men.

Dawggone · 28-03-2016 09:06PM

blackdog1 wrote: »

Do you feed no nuts in the parlour when on grass? Just buffer feed maize?

I don't have parlor feeders.
When on grass I buffer forage maize and cal-mag.

Edit. I never feed nuts, only straights, mostly homegrown.

Mehaffey1 · 28-03-2016 09:14PM

Stripped the herd and treating two new clinicals and marked up another two to check tomorrow since cell count hit 200. Cows doing well at 1.2Ms per cow OAD milking.

First fences going up in the fodder beet paddocks today, fun fun fun.

Dawggone · 28-03-2016 09:19PM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

The reason I thought the milk urea some people were saying was high because I have just come through the best calving season I ever had with a six week calving rate of 79% and an empty rate of 7% with 3 cows left to calve from 50 cows and they'll be calved within a fortnight.

I fed 4kgs of a 14% pr nut during this time and the milk urea was
10 apr 10 2 may 25 22 may 12 april ave 18
12 apr 9 4 may 15 24 may 20 may ave 17
14 apr 19 6 may 23 26 may 10
20 apr 9 8 may 21 28 may 21
24 apr 22 11 may 19 30 may 26
26 apr 17 12 may 19 1 june 19
28 apr 23 16 may 7 5 june 21
30 apr 23 18 may 7 7 june 15
20 may 22 9 june 13

So you can see where i'm coming from.

Good to see that all is well with the herd!

Buying nuts at x% protein is like trying to crack a moving nut with an unwieldy sledge!
Your results show that.

If you can get MU results back 12hrs after each collection you would see some savings when urea is high. Only you know the quality of your pasture...but at a glance above I'd go for something like barley and soya hulls for the month of May.

visatorro · 28-03-2016 10:06PM

Dawggone wrote: »

I don't have parlor feeders.
When on grass I buffer forage maize and cal-mag.

Edit. I never feed nuts, only straights, mostly homegrown.

Have you any problems with birds attacking your feed dg? I presume you feed in the yard and not under the wire of the paddock?

mahoney_j · 28-03-2016 10:39PM

Milk protein here just crashed on last 2 tests .gone from 3.34/38/36!tom3.25 and 3.18 on last test .no silage in diet ,grazed grass by day and z grass by night .cows on 5.6 kg fty of 16% blend in parlour with 2.5% megafat added .milking a shade over 32 ltrs fat 4.2/3 lactose protein over 5 and milk urea 25/28 range .dungs good and solid too .bit peeved as nothing obvious stands out

RightTurnClyde · 28-03-2016 11:30PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Milk protein here just crashed on last 2 tests .gone from 3.34/38/36!tom3.25 and 3.18 on last test .no silage in diet ,grazed grass by day and z grass by night .cows on 5.6 kg fty of 16% blend in parlour with 2.5% megafat added .milking a shade over 32 ltrs fat 4.2/3 lactose protein over 5 and milk urea 25/28 range .dungs good and solid too .bit peeved as nothing obvious stands out

Ditto, arse just fell out of pr here too. 29ltrs @3.12p 3.98f. 5.5kgs of16%nut and 4kgsdm of HDM silage. No urea test in coop here so going to see if I can get milk independently tested for urea (and p&f) as well. Cows are in cracking condition, dungs perfect. A lot of head scratching going on.
I'm trying to isolate changes from last year, yes silage is in but it's not much and is very high quality, cows are walking 4kms a day, could this be an issue, megafat in this year, could this be lifting fat at a cost to protein. I'm sure that cutting cold is burning energy as well
I'm at a loss

Dawggone · 29-03-2016 04:07AM

What's megafat, and what price?

Try buying nuts on ufl not cp.

At a glance ye are lacking energy...

orm0nd · 29-03-2016 06:42AM

Dawggone wrote:

Try buying nuts on ufl not cp.

+1000

mahoney_j · 29-03-2016 07:38AM

Ufl 0.97 ,maize ,barley ,soya soya hulls and OK based .ufl o e of first a asked after ingridents and once I know what's in it I'd have a fair idea of ufl

RightTurnClyde · 29-03-2016 07:41AM

Dawggone wrote: »

What's megafat, and what price?

Try buying nuts on ufl not cp.

At a glance ye are lacking energy...

97.8 UFL
Dawg, you mentioned rape and distillers not suitable with grass. Why that.
The meal is made up of 50% maize and barley, but there's 25% made up with distillers and rape
MegaFat Is just another Volac (i think make it) product like megalac. But I gave up on megalac years ago as it would strip BCS for Litres. Wondering now is MegaFat pulling the fat kgs from somewhere.
I wished I studied nutrition

Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

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