Phoenix Park Tunnel reopening and City Centre Resignalling

n97 mini · 22-03-2016 2:11pm

lxflyer wrote: »

I think I'm being realistic rather than defeatist.

In time a separate station at Conyngham Road might be developed - but there simply isn't the money in the pot for it right now. Talk of travelators is nonsense - if you had any idea of the lie of the land between Heuston and Platform 10 you'd realise that. It's along walk in the open.

Docklands would require a new double junction at Glasnevin for trains to access it from Heuston and I really can't see that happening anytime soon - far better scope sending the trains around to Grand Canal Dock.

You seem to have a fixation about the Convention Centre - I'm far from convinced that the Maynooth line alone would generate enough traffic at weekends travelling here as opposed to Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock.

Personally I think you have a "no money" attitude that seems to prevail in Ireland which prevents us from even trying. You also seem to be content with a city centre trains station being closed, best reason being because a junction is wrong (and requires money). That's daft.

Are you familiar with the travelators to Pier D? Why are you talking about long walks out in the open? Nonsense.

LXFlyer · 22-03-2016 2:46pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Personally I think you have a "no money" attitude that seems to prevail in Ireland which prevents us from even trying. You also seem to be content with a city centre trains station being closed, best reason being because a junction is wrong (and requires money). That's daft.

Are you familiar with the travelators to Pier D? Why are you talking about long walks out in the open? Nonsense.

The walk from Heuston to P10 is in the open - there is no shelter anywhere.

You're coming up with grandiose ideas that frankly won't provide a great return on investment and overkill in terms of funding.

Docklands station serves an area that is frankly dead at weekends - it's pointless. I suggest you go for a walk down there and you'll see what I mean.

Routing the trains to the other city centre stations makes far more sense.

end of the road · 22-03-2016 2:47pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Personally I think you have a "no money" attitude that seems to prevail in Ireland which prevents us from even trying. You also seem to be content with a city centre trains station being closed, best reason being because a junction is wrong (and requires money). That's daft.

it is daft, but that is politics for you. he is telling you how the government, NTA and IE see the situation. for what it is worth i agree with a couple of your suggestions but nobody is going to take the bull by the horns and fund them. thats not his fault.
remember, IE ended up having to remove a useful loop (mosney) supposibly because of "cost reasons" . the government and NTA didn't stop them (which makes them worse TBH)
when that is what you are dealing with you can forget about extra stations and capacity.

JMurphy84 · 22-03-2016 2:54pm

I hope to move to Celbridge in the coming months. All i want to know is when the PPT opens will Hazelhatch trains stop at Drumcondra? Handy way of getting to Croke Park on matchdays!!

LXFlyer · 22-03-2016 2:55pm

JMurphy84 wrote: »

I hope to move to Celbridge in the coming months. All i want to know is when the PPT opens will Hazelhatch trains stop at Drumcondra? Handy way of getting to Croke Park on matchdays!!

Yes they will.

22-03-2016 7:23pm

A little bit of joined up thinking and you could have a Luas spur to P10 at Heuston that just runs from Platform 10 along the quays towards the docks for passengers from the new PPT service to use as an alternative way into the city.
The tram could also shuttle passengers between P10 & the main terminus.

spacetweek · 22-03-2016 7:35pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A little bit of joined up thinking and you could have a Luas spur to P10 at Heuston that just runs from Platform 10 along the quays towards the docks for passengers from the new PPT service to use as an alternative way into the city.
The tram could also shuttle passengers between P10 & the main terminus.

The whole point of the PPT is so that people don't have to get the luas outside Heuston and instead can be brought to their destination without changing.

spacetweek · 22-03-2016 7:37pm

n97 mini wrote: »

I do agree with you there, but that is a defeatist attitude all the same. Other countries could manage it, probably even third world ones.

But remember that when the full Dart U opens, the PPT won't matter much anymore so it would probably not be worth the effort in this case.

22-03-2016 7:43pm

spacetweek wrote: »

The whole point of the PPT is so that people don't have to get the luas outside Heuston and instead can be brought to their destination without changing.

The point is that if many of the commuter trains are going to go via the tunnel the additional stop would be much appreciated for those who still need to get off at Heuston ant their train now doesn't stop there anymore.

spacetweek · 22-03-2016 7:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The point is that if many of the commuter trains are going to go via the tunnel the additional stop would be much appreciated for those who still need to get off at Heuston ant their train now doesn't stop there anymore.

Ok, that is a fair point.

LXFlyer · 23-03-2016 8:44am

Deleted User wrote: »

The point is that if many of the commuter trains are going to go via the tunnel the additional stop would be much appreciated for those who still need to get off at Heuston ant their train now doesn't stop there anymore.

There are still going to be plenty of trains terminating at Heuston - most (if not all) of the trains going to Grand Canal Dock will be additional trains.

Folks, people are losing track of themselves here with talk of LUAS spurs and travelators. This is a low cost project that will deliver service improvements using existing infrastructure (and taking advantage of the extra capacity delivered by the city centre resignalling project), while retaining services to/from Heuston.

Some of you are getting carried away with grandiose ideas that frankly will cost an arm and a leg and won't really see much use.

thomasj · 23-03-2016 9:48am

JMurphy84 wrote:

I hope to move to Celbridge in the coming months. All i want to know is when the PPT opens will Hazelhatch trains stop at Drumcondra? Handy way of getting to Croke Park on matchdays!!

That would be a logistical nightmare for Irish rail! Maynooth line services at matches the platform does quite often be full could you imagine the crowds of kildare and maynooth passengers on the line and then a maynooth line train pulls in and you have to get through the crowds to kildare line passengers to be able to get on the train?

23-03-2016 7:20pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Folks, people are losing track of themselves here with talk of LUAS spurs and travelators. This is a low cost project that will deliver service improvements using existing infrastructure (and taking advantage of the extra capacity delivered by the city centre resignalling project), while retaining services to/from Heuston.

Some of you are getting carried away with grandiose ideas that frankly will cost an arm and a leg and won't really see much use.

I did mention "joined up thinking", as in an extra Luas service running from Platform 10 east to the city. There's no harm in dreaming!

In most other EU countries the Luas link would be top of the list.

LXFlyer · 24-03-2016 8:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I did mention "joined up thinking", as in an extra Luas service running from Platform 10 east to the city. There's no harm in dreaming!
In most other EU countries the Luas link would be top of the list.

Do you really think so?

We are talking about one train per hour in either direction off-peak and two (maybe three) per hour at peak times.

Do you seriously think that level of service would warrant that level of investment considering Heuston will still be served by most (if not all) of the existing services?

Deedsie · 24-03-2016 9:00pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Do you really think so?

We are talking about one train per hour in either direction off-peak and two (maybe three) per hour at peak times.

Do you seriously think that level of service would warrant that level of investment considering Heuston will still be served by most (if not all) of the existing services?

Did I not read it is to be 4 trains per hour at peak times?

LXFlyer · 24-03-2016 9:03pm

Deedsie wrote: »

Did I not read it is to be 4 trains per hour at peak times?

That is wrong and has been wrong since the outset of this and other threads/reports.

The planned service levels are as I outlined above.

n97 mini · 24-03-2016 9:47pm

lxflyer wrote: »

D
We are talking about one train per hour in either direction off-peak

As the existing (Hazelhatch-ish) off peak service is one per hour to Heuston, do you envisage this switching entirely to Connolly, or do you envisage an increase in service levels?

LXFlyer · 24-03-2016 9:56pm

n97 mini wrote: »

As the existing (Hazelhatch-ish) off peak service is one per hour to Heuston, do you envisage this switching entirely to Connolly, or do you envisage an increase in service levels?

The Grand Canal Dock services will be additional to the existing service levels. In all probability they will turn back at Newbridge.

The current off peak Heuston-Portlaoise will continue.

n97 mini · 24-03-2016 10:28pm

lxflyer wrote: »

The Grand Canal Dock services will be additional to the existing service levels. In all probability they will turn back at Newbridge.

The current off peak Heuston-Portlaoise will continue.

Do you really think the off-peak service between Hazelhatch and the city centre will be greater than the Maynooth line?

LXFlyer · 24-03-2016 10:36pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Do you really think the off-peak service between Hazelhatch and the city centre will be greater than the Maynooth line?

For a start they serve more than just Hazelhatch and the city centre.

The existing Heuston-Portlaoise service doubles up as a method of getting ICRs back to the depot for servicing from Heuston and is a feeder service into the Galway and Cork services at Portarlington and Portlaoise - or would you prefer that they just went empty?

That is completely separate from these new services for which funding has been provided.

n97 mini · 24-03-2016 11:11pm

lxflyer wrote: »

or would you prefer that they just went empty?

I'm only asking a question about your thoughts on service levels, no need to be a smartass.

Pete_Cavan · 24-03-2016 11:25pm

With the increase in services might we see movement on the KRP2 any time soon?

LXFlyer · 24-03-2016 11:48pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

With the increase in services might we see movement on the KRP2 any time soon?

It's not needed at this stage at all.

LXFlyer · 25-03-2016 12:22am

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm only asking a question about your thoughts on service levels, no need to be a smartass.

With respect - you asked me the same question effectively twice, despite me giving a clear answer.

I'm not in the habit of posting incorrect information here, and gave you a clear explanation of why the two service will operate.

Just because it's not what you want to hear does not mean you have to lower yourself to personal insults.

trellheim · 25-03-2016 2:22pm

How many trains with passengers a day through PPT when this is all done - 5 each way is it or am i wrong ?

LXFlyer · 25-03-2016 2:32pm

trellheim wrote: »

How many trains with passengers a day through PPT when this is all done - 5 each way is it or am i wrong ?

You're wrong.

It's an all day service.

One train per hour off-peak in either direction, rising to two (possibly three) per hour in the direction of peak travel flow at peak times.

Pete_Cavan · 25-03-2016 6:03pm

lxflyer wrote: »

It's not needed at this stage at all.

Right but it will be needed at some stage, hopefully in the not too distant future. It’s a project that will have a lot of benefits for a reasonable cost and maximises the investment already made in the PPT and City Centre Resignalling. Hopefully the NTA are thinking about it that way. The scope could be changed to quad track as far as Kilmainham. It is needed as part of DU anyway so is probably a more worthwhile long term investment than reopening the PPT and doing it as a standalone project reduces the cost of DU.

A Dart style services to GCD/Docklands (I assume there won’t be slots for any services above what is currently proposed to cross the bridge to Tara Street) would do a lot to get people out of their cars. With more services, new stations could be opened after the tunnel also.

Charles Babbage · 25-03-2016 6:07pm

The PPT project is possible because the Victorians had the foresight to invest in the line in the first place. While some money has had to be spent on upgrades that investment is still paying for itself. If only the same long term view was taken about the Dart Underground and similar projects.

kencoo · 25-03-2016 6:26pm

Does anyone have an idea when timetables will be announced?

LXFlyer · 25-03-2016 6:49pm

kencoo wrote: »

Does anyone have an idea when timetables will be announced?

This isn't going live until Autumn.

Phoenix Park Tunnel reopening and City Centre Resignalling

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