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Be still my beating heart

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Comments

  • #2462
    Firedance
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    Delighted to hear niggle-gate is over, hope it stays that way. What a super idea to bring those feelings with you to Belfast! Happy running :)


  • #2463
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    snailsong wrote: »
    You really love running don't you? I like it myself but you're a hard case.
    Eh, yeah, maybe just a little bit
    too much!
    snailsong wrote: »
    You should do it more often. ;-)
    I will be:D
    Firedance wrote: »
    Delighted to hear niggle-gate is over, hope it stays that way. What a super idea to bring those feelings with you to Belfast! Happy running :)
    Right back at ya mrs!


  • #2464
    pconn062
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    All three peroneal muscles (brevis, longus, tertius) actually go into the foot, but only the longus goes under the foot and inserts into the 1st (big toe) metatarsal. The other two connect into the 5th metatarsal on the outside of the foot. I sometimes get some small aching pain there on the outside of the foot, due to over inversion of the foot before landing. Strengthening the peroneals with a theraband helps.

    Glad to hear it's nothing serious and sorted now.


  • #2465
    The Muppet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,009 ✭✭✭✭The Muppet


    Good to hear the niggle is nothing serious.

    Your milage is unreal to us mere mortal runners.

    The best of luck with the " new foot" .


  • #2466
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    pconn062 wrote: »
    All three peroneal muscles (brevis, longus, tertius) actually go into the foot, but only the longus goes under the foot and inserts into the 1st (big toe) metatarsal. The other two connect into the 5th metatarsal on the outside of the foot. I sometimes get some small aching pain there on the outside of the foot, due to over inversion of the foot before landing. Strengthening the peroneals with a theraband helps.

    Glad to hear it's nothing serious and sorted now.
    Cheers and thanks for the suggestion on the theraband.
    Delighted to see things are on the up for yourself now.


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  • #2467
    RubyK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭RubyK


    Glad to hear the foot problem has cleared up!! Onwards and upwards now, not long to go to Conn :) Exciting times ahead.


  • #2468
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    RubyK wrote: »
    Glad to hear the foot problem has cleared up!! Onwards and upwards now, not long to go to Conn :) Exciting times ahead.

    Absolutely! Really looking forward to tackling the distance in Conn!

    How is marathon training going? Feeling confident?


  • #2469
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    Monday 7 March
    am: 6 miles @ 10:16
    Very sluggish this morning.
    pm: 7 miles easy @ 9:56
    Felt a lot better - niggle behind knee.

    Tuesday 8 March
    am: 6 miles easy @ 9:53
    pm: 4 miles easy @ 9:17
    Aerobically I felt fantastic. V. fast for easy.
    Started 24hour fast at 8:30pm after dinner.

    Wednesday 9 March
    4 miles easy @ 10:11
    Knee niggle a lot better. Kept this one super easy due to not having eaten for 22 hours!
    No problem with the fast. Kept myself busy in work all day and drank lots of green tea and water. Ran home from work very slowly. Ate again at 8:30pm. It didn't take much to fill me!

    Thursday 10 March
    10 miles easy @ 9:56
    Knee niggle gone. Easy one home from work. I had a very light backpack for 4 miles of this but my neck was very sore after it. My neck is my one big worry for Belfast, as when it gets tired on a long run, it gets very stiff and sore. If anyone knows of any good physios who are good with necks, gimme a shout thanks.

    Friday 11 March
    6 miles easy @ 9:42
    Felt great this evening.

    Saturday 12 March
    am: 8 miles easy @ 9:48
    Sleepless night. Insomnia from now on is also known as 'Training for 24hr Race'!

    Went to the Phoenix Park so I could run some of the hillier bits of the park with Conn looming. I know I should be going to Howth to run some 'real' hills in proper preparation for Conn but was advised to keep things handy this week and avoid very hilly runs in case the foot issue returns or the knee niggle develops. Belfast in the A goal so need to keep that in the forefront of my mind. Enjoyable run on an absolutely glorious day but for some reason no one would say hello to me on this run :( I forced a few reluctant hellos eventually. People looked too 'in the zone' and focused on their business to be very friendly in the main. Strange....
    pm: 6 miles easy @ 9:49
    Very sad to hear about the death of Jim McNamara. I didn't know him but his face was very familiar to me from the Park probably and different races around Dublin. I do know his brother though quite well and have a heartbreaking chat with him this afternoon and he relayed some lovely stories about his brother's passion for his running and coaching. He is absolutely devastated to lose his 'best friend'. We're going to go for a jog together some day soon and I look forward to hearing lots more about Jim.

    Most enjoyable run this evening. Perfect weather for it!

    Sunday 13 March
    17 mile LSR @ 9:49
    Back to my usual North Road/Chesterfield Ave loops for this one. I had a bit of a knot in my stomach for most of this run which I had from when I woke up this morning, so I felt a bit of discomfort for a lot of it. Not as enjoyable as recent long runs but I think it's no harm to have the odd 'less fabulous' run as it'll 'learn' me to get on with it, and push through when things get tough in Belfast. I started out at a crawl and disregarded the pace and just locked in to my 'run forever' zone/pace, and I actually felt much better later in the run and finished strongly.

    Weekly total: 74.7 miles

    Not a bad week even if it was all plodding, but the main thing is that I am 100% niggle-free so will be introducing a bit of faster stuff next week now that things are back to normal.
    All the usual AIS done before each run religiously and Lunge Matrix done most days and Myrtl done 3 times.


  • #2470
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    Some great hills out in Howth, I used to only run Howth the very odd time but doing a long run over the hills there now at least once a week. You should do a few runs over it, I find it much better than the park. Plus I am right beside it should use it more.


  • #2471
    snailsong
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭snailsong


    Well done on picking back up the milage after your niggle.

    I have had issues with the neck and shoulder area in the past. I found it helps to wear a buff about the neck to keep the muscles nice and warm. When you're well warmed up you can stick it on the wrist and it's a sweat band. Hope that helps.


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  • #2472
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    Dub13 wrote: »
    Some great hills out in Howth, I used to only run Howth the very odd time but doing a long run over the hills there now at least once a week. You should do a few runs over it, I find it much better than the park. Plus I am right beside it should use it more.

    Yeah I really do need to!

    Well done today! Just read about it on other thread. Great going!!


  • #2473
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    Ososlo wrote: »
    Yeah I really do need to!

    Well done today! Just read about it on other thread. Great going!!

    Cheers, was a bit unexpected but kind of puts more pressure on.


  • #2474
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    On Howth here is my garmin link to what I think is the best hilly route up the hill. Its a hard one but well worth it after doing a few.

    https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1067442329


  • #2475
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    snailsong wrote: »
    Well done on picking back up the milage after your niggle.

    I have had issues with the neck and shoulder area in the past. I found it helps to wear a buff about the neck to keep the muscles nice and warm. When you're well warmed up you can stick it on the wrist and it's a sweat band. Hope that helps.

    thanks a mill. I might try that and see if it helps. I think I have one somewhere from a Waterford half a few years ago!


  • #2476
    Dubgal72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Would you consider an osteopath for your neck? I was thinking a cranial osteopath. I had a couple of sessions early Jan and was blissed out...and also very relaxed. I get very tense around the neck and shoulders and I found this particular treatment really good for that.


  • #2477
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    Dubgal72 wrote: »
    Would you consider an osteopath for your neck? I was thinking a cranial osteopath. I had a couple of sessions early Jan and was blissed out...and also very relaxed. I get very tense around the neck and shoulders and I found this particular treatment really good for that.

    Cheers for the suggestion. I really know nothing about osteopaths! Time to do some research!


  • #2478
    Dubgal72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Ososlo wrote: »
    Cheers for the suggestion. I really know nothing about osteopaths! Time to do some research!

    Yeah it seems like a bit of a fuzzy science at first but the fact that Paula Radcliffe - amongst others - used an osteo as part of her integral maintenance swung it for me. They do the same thing as chiropractors but take a less invasive route. Lots of theory about the body's fascia too. I had a really interesting chat with my osteo mid bliss. Clean your ears though, they go "in' :eek: :D


  • #2479
    mathso
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 ✭mathso


    I'm enjoying your training and all the help im getting from the other posters, i am also training for the Conn ultra and I am hopeful i will finish it.
    You should enter the EOI Marathon on Howth head as a training run the tíming for it is perfect for Conn 26th March
    I'm also a little curious about the Fasting was that running related or training advice?
    I am looking for all the help i can get


  • #2480
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    mathso wrote: »
    I'm enjoying your training and all the help im getting from the other posters, i am also training for the Conn ultra and I am hopeful i will finish it.
    You should enter the EOI Marathon on Howth head as a training run the tíming for it is perfect for Conn 26th March
    I'm also a little curious about the Fasting was that running related or training advice?
    I am looking for all the help i can get

    Hey mathso, thanks a mill. I will have a look at that marathon and see if the date suits.

    I think you're a lot more experienced than me so not sure I can be of any help!
    I'm getting help from someone outside of Boards and I'm very new to the whole Ultra thing so it's all a learning experience for me.
    Here's Enduro's opinion on Intermittent Fasting
    It's just something I'm trying once a week from now on to train my body to use fat stores as energy. It's really with Belfast 24hr in mind, not Connemara. I haven't been doing it long enough to be able to tell if I have reaped any benefits yet but I don't think it's doing me any harm and I actually 'enjoy' depriving myself of food in a weird way:) plus I save a bit of money :):)
    You should ask about it on the Ultra thread or Conn thread where TFBubendorfer and Enduro who have loads of experience in the area of ultras will be able to help you.

    How's your training going?


  • #2481
    mathso
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 ✭mathso


    Ososlo wrote: »
    Hey mathso, thanks a mill. I will have a look at that marathon and see if the date suits.

    I think you're a lot more experienced than me so not sure I can be of any help!
    I'm getting help from someone outside of Boards and I'm very new to the whole Ultra thing so it's all a learning experience for me.
    Here's Enduro's opinion on Intermittent Fasting
    It's just something I'm trying once a week from now on to train my body to use fat stores as energy. It's really with Belfast 24hr in mind, not Connemara. I haven't been doing it long enough to be able to tell if I have reaped any benefits yet but I don't think it's doing me any harm and I actually 'enjoy' depriving myself of food in a weird way:) plus I save a bit of money :):)
    You should ask about it on the Ultra thread or Conn thread where TFBubendorfer and Enduro who have loads of experience in the area of ultras will be able to help you.

    How's your training going?

    Training is going well, I'm not doing as many miles as you but im getting there, small problem with my Hip.
    I have a fair bit of Marathon experience but its the longer distance that I am training for now.
    50k i can handle, but like you i have a target race and I am only using Conn for training.
    Any new idea i can try i am interested, i check out the ultra tread and see what I can get from it.
    The person who advised you about the Fasting is he an Ultra runner speaking from experiències, just wondering has he tried it himself.
    Thanks


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  • #2482
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Reminds me of a great documentary I saw on YouTube a while back on the golden generation of Swedish athletics and the lengths they'd go to try achieve Olympic and World glory, all the way down to what youth athletes were doing to their bodies. There was one extreme example of a high jumper (can't remember his name but it wasn't Stefan Holm) who said he would practically starve himself in the leadup to a competition to try get as lean as possible, while still training away during this time. It struck me as utter madness. I've no idea if other high jumpers do this or if it was some crazy idea his particular coaching team had.

    I've no idea if fasting will help or hinder a 24 hour athlete. Others will be better judges of that than me. But it's certainly not good for one's health. Be careful with it anyway.


  • #2483
    demfad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Chivito550 wrote: »

    ....I've no idea if fasting will help or hinder a 24 hour athlete. Others will be better judges of that than me. But it's certainly not good for one's health. Be careful with it anyway.

    I don't want to send Ososlo's Log off on a tangent but just wondering what your basis is for the bold section?


  • #2484
    Myles Splitz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭Myles Splitz


    Pretty good overview on the science behind the approach for anyone interested here

    http://easacademy.org/trainer-resources/article/intermittent-fasting


  • #2485
    demfad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Myles Splitz wrote: »
    Pretty good overview on the science behind the approach for anyone interested here

    http://easacademy.org/trainer-resources/article/intermittent-fasting

    Its an overview but the science seems to be inconclusive. Seems to be good results for animals but poor results for humans mainly because many of the humans tested were experiencing Ramadan and therefore also deprived of water. There is one study claiming that fat oxidation does not increase whether fasted or fed. This seems to be contradicted in other studies.
    Crucially performance is not measured in the study.

    I would imagine that which muscle fibres adapt to using fat during training is important. This may be relevant for improving max lipid power, or the max force you can output using fat oxidation. I guess you'd need to train the stronger available fibres for this purpose. Canova uses a similar strategy in marathon buildups. He depletes glycogen with 5 x 2k @ LT effort in the middle of a fast 35k run. The last couple of reps are glycogen depleted so the strongest available fibres are forced into use using fat oxidation as energy. The initial glycogen element would need to be missing from an equivalent 24hr type session (therefore fasted and pre-depleted) which could be run from anything from max lipid power pace to race pace with desirable effects on adapting relatively strong and/or specific fibres.

    Also, going for a fasted training run at race pace will generally be specific training for a 24hr race as that is in effect what you are doing for most of it.

    This is just theorising on my part though. As the science is sketchy at best on this topic the most concrete evidence would be gleaned from ultra runners experiences on this. Enduro's opinion would carry weight here obviously.


  • #2486
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,670 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Reminds me of a great documentary I saw on YouTube a while back on the golden generation of Swedish athletics and the lengths they'd go to try achieve Olympic and World glory, all the way down to what youth athletes were doing to their bodies. There was one extreme example of a high jumper (can't remember his name but it wasn't Stefan Holm) who said he would practically starve himself in the leadup to a competition to try get as lean as possible, while still training away during this time. It struck me as utter madness. I've no idea if other high jumpers do this or if it was some crazy idea his particular coaching team had.

    I've no idea if fasting will help or hinder a 24 hour athlete. Others will be better judges of that than me. But it's certainly not good for one's health. Be careful with it anyway.

    Which makes MJs choosing to race looking like Mr. T all the more strange.

    ososlo, some serious miles you are putting in. How do you fuel for it, and on average how much time is spent sleeping or trying to sleep?


  • #2487
    Murph_D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,899 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    demfad wrote: »
    As the science is sketchy at best on this topic the most concrete evidence would be gleaned from ultra runners experiences on this. Enduro's opinion would carry weight here obviously.

    Well to be fair the article does not suggest the science is sketchy - it states that there are NO studies linking fasting in humans with performance increase (the Muslim Ramadan studies found a modest performance decline, which could be partly explained by dehydration). So there is no evidence linking intermittent fasting to performance improvement OR the acquisition of a "lean, strong physique".

    Assuming the review is comprehensive, and still current (written in 2014).


  • #2488
    demfad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Well to be fair the article does not suggest the science is sketchy - it states that there are NO studies linking fasting in humans with performance increase (the Muslim Ramadan studies found a modest performance decline, which could be partly explained by dehydration). So there is no evidence linking intermittent fasting to performance improvement OR the acquisition of a "lean, strong physique".

    Assuming the review is comprehensive, and still current (written in 2014).

    From the article:
    Currently, the bulk of the scientific evidence for the health benefits of intermittent fasting has come from animal studies (review: (Longo and Mattson, 2014) and the negative effects of intermittent fasting have stemmed from Muslim athletes during Ramadan (review: (Chaouachi et al., 2009), both with limited ability to be translated to the general athletic community.

    By 'Sketchy' I guess I meant inconclusive, in application to athletes. I think the collective experience of experienced ultra athletes used to these methods trumps the science in this case.

    I may be mistaken but I don't think any of the studies were conducted in order to measure performance. Rather, many were conducted to measure fat metabolism under varying conditions.


  • #2489
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    mathso wrote: »
    Training is going well, I'm not doing as many miles as you but im getting there, small problem with my Hip.
    I have a fair bit of Marathon experience but its the longer distance that I am training for now.
    50k i can handle, but like you i have a target race and I am only using Conn for training.
    Any new idea i can try i am interested, i check out the ultra tread and see what I can get from it.
    The person who advised you about the Fasting is he an Ultra runner speaking from experiències, just wondering has he tried it himself.
    Thanks

    What's the target race if you don't mind me asking?

    Defo post your queries about IF on the Ultra thread. Here's the link: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98923604#post98923604
    Better to speak directly to those who might have tried it on the forum. I'm sure you know all about Enduro's success with Ultra running and he's very knowledgeable about fuelling and nutrition (or not!) for long distances etc.
    I hope the hip problem disappears super quick for you!!!
    walshb wrote: »
    ososlo, some serious miles you are putting in. How do you fuel for it, and on average how much time is spent sleeping or trying to sleep?
    Hey, walshb, well on the days that I'm not starving myself :) I just eat normally. I'm big into vegetable juices, so almost every day, I'd have a juice made from beetroot, courgette, broccoli, carrot, celery, kale, spinach, cucumber, ginger and a few other things! I try to get some chia seeds, macca, hemp etc in most days. I live for bread so probably eat way too much of that! I eat a lot of seeds and nuts daily (too many if possible!) and lot of beans and pulses and tofu, but I think my high protein diet is helping keep the body intact (in the main). I rarely get sick (touch wood) and my injury history has been very good except for a foot niggle lately. Before a long run I generally have a banana, a few nuts and a croissant or bagel.

    On the long run (over 2.5 hours) I'll have a few sips (more if warm) of nuun in water and a homemade gel (top secret recipe from my coach) every 1.5 hours.

    Sleep is abysmal in the main (varies from 2 hours to 5 hours, 6 hours considered a brilliant night for me). I spend a lot of time trying to sleep by going to bed early but that invariably leads to waking in the early hours and being awake most of the night so lately I've just been going to bed later.
    I've accepted it though, as getting stressed about it makes it worse and leads to a vicious circle. Before I started running, my insomnia was also dreadful but I'd lie awake letting dark thoughts take over whereas now I'm thinking happy thoughts during the sleepless hours:) I do spend a lot of time counting sheep though, although in recent years that's changed to counting runners jumping over hurdles:D One night recently I counted backwards from 500 :) but I still couldn't sleep...

    IF
    On the IF thingy, I've read so many papers and websites about it and looked at both sides over and over again. I know it's seen as controversial by some and wasn't going to talk about it on my log but I think it's important to include it so as to have a thorough honest account of my training and all that goes with it, so that if I'm every crazy enough to try something like 24hr races again, I'll be able to look back on it and see what I was doing and learn from it. Bottom line though is that I'm giving it a go and I don't believe it to be unhealthy if done right and if taking on plenty of liquids and eating really well afterwards. If it all goes pear-shaped then I invite you all to come back and say 'I told you so'!

    I'm enjoying the discussion but perhaps it might be more appropriate over on the Ultra thread. As demfad said, those who are experienced in the area can give their opinions as they probably won't be reading this.


  • #2490
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,670 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Thanks, ososlo for the informative reply. As long as you are up for it and enjoying it and looking forward to it then that is 90 percent of it. The 10 percent is the unknown.


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  • #2491
    Ososlo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,420 ✭✭✭Ososlo


    walshb wrote: »
    Thanks, ososlo for the informative reply. As long as you are up for it and enjoying it and looking forward to it then that is 90 percent of it. The 10 percent is the unknown.

    There's probably a little bit more than 10% unknown when it comes to 24 hour racing but sure all will be revealed in a few months!
    Yep defo enjoying it all so far thanks!


This discussion has been closed.
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