UFC 196: McGregor v Diaz

Subcomandante Marcos · 06-03-2016 06:01PM

darced wrote: »

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I don't compete in MMA (I do spar in the gym, but no interest in competing) but even when rolling that moment when you realise you're ****ed and he's still ready for more is horrible, it's the ultimate "awww sheeeeet" moment and you're just trying to survive until the end of the round.

In my 30's and for me it's usually the 23 year old freaks who to it to me.

threeball · 06-03-2016 06:05PM

darced wrote: »

Thats all he had to do last night, where was the footwork of the Aldo fight? He reverted to the Mendes game plan of staying in range trying to use head movement as defense which eventually gets you caught in MMA no matter how good you are.

The not fighting the choke situation is simple, he was gassed, no punch,kick or elbow will make a fighter quit as quick as gassing will. It is a horrendous experience.

And yet he stated that tapping to Duffy was the biggest regret of his life, one he would not repeat but here we are. Allowing such an easy mount and offering your neck are not the actions of a fighter who overcomes adversity. Conor will be fine once he has the upper hand but will quit as soon as the tables turn. Jones was in a similar situation against gus and gutted it out

Utopia Parkway · 06-03-2016 06:06PM

Just rewatched the fight. No doubt that Conor started to look tired in the 2nd round. Even before Nate managed to hit him with a few shots. Surprising to see him gas like that especially without a severe weight cut. Have to wonder was he actually carrying too much weight into the fight. Or too much that it compromised his gas tank anyway. Too much muscle will tire you out quicker than being lean.

Mr_Muffin · 06-03-2016 06:07PM

Will this loss affect how much he will earn in his next few fights or is he on a fixed contract etc?

darced · 06-03-2016 06:09PM

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threeball · 06-03-2016 06:14PM

darced wrote: »

He was not gassed against Duffy,the fight had just begun, big difference.

But he folded at the first sign of adversity. It's a trait he's unlikely to change. Plenty of fighters gas but battle on

floorpie · 06-03-2016 06:17PM

threeball wrote: »

But he folded at the first sign of adversity. It's a trait he's unlikely to change. Plenty of fighters gas but battle on

Wtf are you talking about? "Battle on" past a RNC? He was out on his feet and was still trying, with a takedown and guillotine escape. Once he was stretched out it was over.

You realise that this happened in the middle of the fight, and he "battled on" until that point? That's the game.

Pudsy33 · 06-03-2016 06:18PM

I think Conor was tired because he was swinging like a mad man. I might be being a bit naive, but if that was a title fight I don't think he'd have been half as gung ho as he was. He wasted so much energy swinging for the fence and I just dont think he would have attempted that kinda thing against RDA. The two takeaways from that fight, for me, we're 1. Talk of 170 was completely ridiculous, and realistically now it will never happen. Lawler, Rory, Hendricks et al are way way too big. 2 There needs to be a game plan beyond knocking everyone out with the left. It didn't work here and it won't work in future.

Utopia Parkway · 06-03-2016 06:22PM

Conor throwing nothing but full force haymakers with every punch couldn't have helped his gas tank either. Almost punched himself out trying to take Diaz's head off. Once Diaz was still standing half way through the 2nd it was like Conor realised he was gassed and then suddenly he became a lot easier to hit. By the time he shot for the takedown he was both gassed and stunned from shots. Not what you want to be on the ground against a very good submission fighter.

Crann na Beatha · 06-03-2016 06:25PM

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daRobot · 06-03-2016 06:29PM

Unfortunately, as has been said on here, the gameplan was all wrong.

He's only 27, and has acquired a superstar status very fast, and although no one would dispute his work ethic, I personally think it led him to believe his own hype this time around.

After all, he took Aldo's crown in spectacular fashion.

Wanting to go in full steam, and KO a guy who has proven to be almost un-ko'able (that Josh Thompson kick to the head that did KO Diaz the once was brutal) was just naive.

It was full on 'Hero' mode, with a huge energy expenditure on his part, and Diaz just sat back, soaked it up and hit back at the right moment when Conor's tiredness caused him to become sloppy.

He had all the tools to win that fight, but he just wanted to continue the legend too much, and paid the price.

In an earlier interview, he paraphrased a Bruce Lee tenet about how there is no opponent, with the battle being internal. Unfortunately this time, his probable internal dialogue may well be what undid him.

But he's a smart chap, and I think he'll come back stronger and ultimately a better fighter due to this.

JJayoo · 06-03-2016 06:50PM

I think people read too much into the Aldo knockout, all this touch of death rubbish, I mean it sounds great and is very handy for filling some airtime. No one can ever live up to such hype, but McG is a smart guy and seems to have a great relationship with his family/girlfriend/team mates.

In regards to the 145 belt, could Conor ask for it at 150 or even 154 pounds. Basically Edgar wants the fight badly and Conor holds all the cards. The UFC could simply say that it's either fight at 154 pounds catch-weight or Edgar has to sit out for an additional length of time for McG to lose the weight. I just can't see how he is gonna shrink down. There was a comparison pic posted yesterday and the difference is shocking

Paully D · 06-03-2016 06:51PM

It's gutting as a McGregor fan but man, it's hard not to be happy for Nate too.

https://twitter.com/UFCONFOX/status/706384233917341696

FollowMyWay · 06-03-2016 06:52PM

threeball wrote: »

And yet he stated that tapping to Duffy was the biggest regret of his life, one he would not repeat but here we are. Allowing such an easy mount and offering your neck are not the actions of a fighter who overcomes adversity. Conor will be fine once he has the upper hand but will quit as soon as the tables turn. Jones was in a similar situation against gus and gutted it out

Conor hasn't shown yet that he can come back from being in a bad spot. In this case, he didn't have any energy to overcome it, he was cooked. In his other defeats, he wasn't skilled enough to stop the submissions happening and at a young age you are better tapping then being injured. Going out to a choke and tapping doesn't make you less of 'tough guy', either way you are finished and have been defeated. There is no win.

Jones adversity moment was actually against Vitor when he locked in the armbar. Then you knew he wasn't going to quit in any fight. Big respect for Jon after that one.

threeball · 06-03-2016 06:52PM

floorpie wrote: »

Wtf are you talking about? "Battle on" past a RNC? He was out on his feet and was still trying, with a takedown and guillotine escape. Once he was stretched out it was over.

You realise that this happened in the middle of the fight, and he "battled on" until that point? That's the game.

Calm down petal. People are allowed have differing opinions on a discussion board. McGregors Adversity came in the form of gassing. He chose to go to ground, he allowed an unhindered mount and then offered his neck and didn't defend. There is no doubt in my mind that he quit and not for the first time. He needs to up his ground game to have a fall back when things go against him. Roy Nelson or mark hunt don't even gas in 7mins

Utopia Parkway · 06-03-2016 06:55PM

threeball wrote: »

Calm down petal. People are allowed have differing opinions on a discussion board. McGregors Adversity came in the form of gassing. He chose to go to ground, he allowed an unhindered mount and then offered his neck and didn't defend. There is no doubt in my mind that he quit and not for the first time. He needs to up his ground game to have a fall back when things go against him. Roy Nelson or mark hunt don't even gas in 7mins

I don't think he "allowed" it. He was just gassed and rocked at that point. You don't tend to think straight under those circumstances so don't defend like you are trained to when your mind is clear.

threeball · 06-03-2016 06:56PM

JJayoo wrote: »

I think people read too much into the Aldo knockout, all this touch of death rubbish, I mean it sounds great and is very handy for filling some airtime. No one can ever live up to such hype, but McG is a smart guy and seems to have a great relationship with his family/girlfriend/team mates.

In regards to the 145 belt, could Conor ask for it at 150 or even 154 pounds. Basically Edgar wants the fight badly and Conor holds all the cards. The UFC could simply say that it's either fight at 154 pounds catch-weight or Edgar has to sit out for an additional length of time for McG to lose the weight. I just can't see how he is gonna shrink down. There was a comparison pic posted yesterday and the difference is shocking

He'll be on dialysis when he's 40 if he keeps cutting to 145. Your kidneys can't take that abuse repeatedly. No way he gets a pass especially after a loss

LaGlisse · 06-03-2016 07:01PM

Paully D wrote: »

It's gutting as a McGregor fan but man, it's hard not to be happy for Nate too.

https://twitter.com/UFCONFOX/status/706384233917341696

Cruz such a bitch there. Lots of glee on display

LaGlisse · 06-03-2016 07:02PM

Didn't realize Diaz was a vegan,makes the loss even worse

threeball · 06-03-2016 07:03PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I don't think he "allowed" it. He was just gassed and rocked at that point. You don't tend to think straight under those circumstances so don't defend like you are trained to when your mind is clear.

Watch his neck when he rolls. Instinct would have you tucked to your chest. He arched his backwards and then didn't try to grab an arm which stops me giving him the benefit of the doubt

floorpie · 06-03-2016 07:07PM

threeball wrote: »

Calm down petal. People are allowed have differing opinions on a discussion board. McGregors Adversity came in the form of gassing. He chose to go to ground, he allowed an unhindered mount and then offered his neck and didn't defend. There is no doubt in my mind that he quit and not for the first time. He needs to up his ground game to have a fall back when things go against him. Roy Nelson or mark hunt don't even gas in 7mins

He didn't simply "allow" an unhindered mount, Nate got to mount from Conor's guillotine escape, because Nate has good awareness on the ground. He went to ground because he was fked on his feet due to a few flurries about a minute before the takedown.

This wasn't a fight to judge his ground game on.

I agree that he gassed but it's not clear why he did. He did throw a lot of crosses, as somebody else said, but he always does this. It was an unrecognisable Conor, compared to previous fights. It looked like every kick took an almighty effort to make, for him.

People keep saying that they weighed the same, therefore it was a fair match. I'm not saying it was *unfair*, but talking about their weight on the day neglects the fact that Conor was bulking for months. I have a feeling that this is why he gassed so badly.

floorpie · 06-03-2016 07:09PM

threeball wrote: »

Watch his neck when he rolls. Instinct would have you tucked to your chest. He arched his backwards and then didn't try to grab an arm which stops me giving him the benefit of the doubt

BJJ instinct would also say not to offer the arm while turtling, but Conor did that too. A whitebelt wouldn't do that, and Conor is no whitebelt. So why did he do it? He was just fked after the exchanges.

Muahahaha · 06-03-2016 07:13PM

Has there been any stats out yet on how many upper cuts McGregor threw last night?

threeball · 06-03-2016 07:19PM

floorpie wrote: »

BJJ instinct would also say not to offer the arm while turtling, but Conor did that too. A whitebelt wouldn't do that, and Conor is no whitebelt. So why did he do it? He was just fked after the exchanges.

Possibly but the combo of moves looked to me like he was looking for the exit. Gassing at your natural weight when you claim to do 5 hr sessions and fifty rounds makes it look like the bravado is covering a lot of deficiencies. But hey, the biggest fight from here on will be fought inside his own head.

floorpie · 06-03-2016 07:21PM

threeball wrote: »

Possibly but the combo of moves looked to me like he was looking for the exit. Gassing at your natural weight when you claim to do 5 hr sessions and fifty rounds makes it look like the bravado is covering a lot of deficiencies. But hey, the biggest fight from here on will be fought inside his own head.

Yeah agreed, it'll be interesting to see how he copes with this.

I'm not sure what walk around weight is but it surely isn't near 170 seeing as he has been bulking for months.

VisibleGorilla · 06-03-2016 07:21PM

Good fight, McGregor bit off much more than he could chew. Diaz had him everywhere, both inside and outside the Octagon.

Conor lands some good shots in the first, especially a counter left that clocks Nate directly, same punch that had Aldo asleep yet Nate ate it no bother at all. After that shot even Conor knew something wasn't right. He spends the entire first round looking for the KO, especially trying the uppercut over and over. I think Nate really got it correct with the idea that Conor’s opponents believe what he says, not Conor himself. He so desperately wanted that KO he was putting everything into it. He gassed towards the end of the 1st; you can see it in his breathing and his movements. He starts out "flowy" as we saw with Aldo but that quickly changes to how he has been before, attempting to walk down the opponents. All the while Diaz seems to be simply feeling him out, getting his range and trying for the odd slap or two.

At the break Kavanagh says the right upper cut is there all day for him... bad advice. You can see how hard he is breathing at this point. The 2nd starts with more useless spinning kicks, again Conor trying to live up to his prediction instead of fighting intelligently. He lands one good left to the body, and a few more searching for KO straights all the while Nate eats them for breakfast. As soon as Nate turns it on the fight is done, Conor’s head movement goes to crap due to him gassing quickly and when Nate gets the left he was knocked out on his feet. Game over at that point.

This fight just confirmed a few things – Conor has zero ground game, his cardio was never tested before – he has none. He is a one trick pony, Joe Lauzon said it 100% right, every single thing he does is simply smoke and mirrors for his left punch and if you negate that he really has absolutely nothing else.

Next up will be a defence at 145. He will lose against Frankie Edgar yet if he fights Aldo again I can see him winning in similar fashion. At 155 he is in too deep.

Andre 3000 · 06-03-2016 07:28PM

LaGlisse wrote: »

Didn't realize Diaz was a vegan,makes the loss even worse

Why?

walshb · 06-03-2016 07:29PM

Nice fight breakdown, VisibleGorilla.I was never really sold on Conor as an all around scrapper. Can punch a fair bit, and after that I don't see anything of class. It was shown up last night. Siever and Mendez and Poirier didn't change anything for me. Aldo just got caught so very early.

JohnMc1 · 06-03-2016 07:30PM

FalconGirl wrote: »

The begrudgery that so many people in this country have in their persona is alive and well I see!

Every fighter that has ever talked copious amounts of trash always got made fun of when they lost. Its comes with the territory. When you market yourself as a brash and arrogant trash talker people will revel in your defeat. You better be willing to take the heat when you lose.

newbbieb · 06-03-2016 07:32PM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

Good fight, McGregor bit off much more than he could chew. Diaz had him everywhere, both inside and outside the Octagon.

Conor lands some good shots in the first, especially a counter left that clocks Nate directly, same punch that had Aldo asleep yet Nate ate it no bother at all. After that shot even Conor knew something wasn't right. He spends the entire first round looking for the KO, especially trying the uppercut over and over. I think Nate really got it correct with the idea that Conor’s opponents believe what he says, not Conor himself. He so desperately wanted that KO he was putting everything into it. He gassed towards the end of the 1st; you can see it in his breathing and his movements. He starts out "flowy" as we saw with Aldo but that quickly changes to how he has been before, attempting to walk down the opponents. All the while Diaz seems to be simply feeling him out, getting his range and trying for the odd slap or two.

At the break Kavanagh says the right upper cut is there all day for him... bad advice. You can see how hard he is breathing at this point. The 2nd starts with more useless spinning kicks, again Conor trying to live up to his prediction instead of fighting intelligently. He lands one good left to the body, and a few more searching for KO straights all the while Nate eats them for breakfast. As soon as Nate turns it on the fight is done, Conor’s head movement goes to crap due to him gassing quickly and when Nate gets the left he was knocked out on his feet. Game over at that point.

This fight just confirmed a few things – Conor has zero ground game, his cardio was never tested before – he has none. He is a one trick pony, Joe Lauzon said it 100% right, every single thing he does is simply smoke and mirrors for his left punch and if you negate that he really has absolutely nothing else.

Next up will be a defence at 145. He will lose against Frankie Edgar yet if he fights Aldo again I can see him winning in similar fashion. At 155 he is in too deep.

Agree mostly with what your saying,just don't totally agree with everyone about the ground game,i just think he was done once Nate cracked him,what kind of ground game he had was immaterial,he was out,albeit still awake.

Personally i can't get away from Kavanaghs part in this,yeah he made the money tonight and maybe Kavanagh deserves some of that credit for the big pay day but he definitely could have chosen the fight wiser,this was so unnecessary,Cowboy or Pettis at 55 were far more winnable than one of the biggest LWs at 170,absolutely dumb.

UFC 196: McGregor v Diaz

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