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No refund for families who have paid water charges

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Comments

  • #92
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    If FG are in government, IW and water charges stay.

    If FF are in Government, the utility is renamed Water Ireland, water charges are abolished, and the unrelated Household Environmental Charge or whatever pays for Water Ireland.

    If SF are in government, free water and Bulmers are piped to every home.


  • #93
    Jack Killian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭Jack Killian


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    If FG are in government, IW and water charges stay.

    If FF are in Government, the utility is renamed Water Ireland, water charges are abolished, and the unrelated Household Environmental Charge or whatever pays for Water Ireland.

    If SF are in government, free water and Bulmers are piped to every home.

    0/10 for effort.

    If FG are in power Dinny gets the profit
    If FF are in power Bertie gets the profit
    If SF are in power Slab gets the profit
    If a decent party or set of decent independents is in power, we get a proper water system for our taxes


  • #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jack Killian wrote: »
    0/10 for effort.

    If FG are in power Dinny gets the profit
    If FF are in power Bertie gets the profit
    If SF are in power Slab gets the profit
    If a decent party or set of decent independents is in power, we get a proper water system for our taxes

    One thing is for sure that no matter who is in Government, we'll still have a bunch of whingers giving out about efforts to run Ireland as an independent self financing nation,


  • #95
    Jack Killian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭Jack Killian


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    One thing is for sure that no matter who is in Government, we'll still have a bunch of whingers giving out about efforts to run Ireland as an independent self financing nation,

    Yes, but Dinny will have to learn that he can't always have his own way.


  • #96
    Birdie Num Num
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Birdie Num Num


    Jack Killian wrote: »
    If FG are in power Dinny gets the profit
    If FF are in power Bertie gets the profit
    If SF are in power Slab gets the profit

    Is this kind of post indicative of the levels of intelligence out there around IW?


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  • #97
    Jack Killian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭Jack Killian


    Birdie Num Num wrote: »
    Is this kind of post indicative of the levels of intelligence out there around IW?

    Interesting that you skipped the post that it was in reply to.

    Is this kind of post indicative of the levels of partisanship out there around IW?


  • #98
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    xz wrote: »
    I wasn't bullied into paying for that service, nor gas, or telephone etc, etc, I am not against paying for a proper water infrastructure, but not in the way that IW was set up and forced upon us, the idea was good, but the implementation was a complete farce

    If you have a private water scheme and a private waste system, you pay nothing to Irish Water and don't have to be a customer. You only pay for the service you obtain.

    None of that is to take away from the legitimate concerns about the high levels of pay and expenditure incurred in the setting up of Irish Water. There are serious problems about how it spent its money. But that cannot translate into "I won't pay for water".


  • #99
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,811 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    As someone who has been paying for water since 1985 on a qroup scheme, I find it crazy that the water charges have been having such a widespread effect.
    Personally, I feel that the property taxes would be more worthy of all this protest. After all, water charges should be pay as you use like all other utilities.
    The tax on peoples property, purchased with tax paid funds is borderline criminal. I assume that this is a large part of the reason that the government has not been returned but the media and the water campaigners have hijacked the result and have turned it into a water only issue.


  • #100
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,547 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    mickdw wrote: »
    As someone who has been paying for water since 1985 on a qroup scheme, I find it crazy that the water charges have been having such a widespread effect.
    Personally, I feel that the property taxes would be more worthy of all this protest. After all, water charges should be pay as you use like all other utilities.
    The tax on peoples property, purchased with tax paid funds is borderline criminal. I assume that this is a large part of the reason that the government has not been returned but the media and the water campaigners have hijacked the result and have turned it into a water only issue.

    The left cannot attack the property tax because its a tax on wealth.

    Property is an asset that counts towards wealth. The more property you have or the higher the value of the property you have the more you pay in tax.

    Thus the wealthy pay more in property tax that the less wealthy.


  • #101
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,811 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    The left cannot attack the property tax because its a tax on wealth.

    Property is an asset that counts towards wealth. The more property you have or the higher the value of the property you have the more you pay in tax.

    Thus the wealthy pay more in property tax that the less wealthy.

    However the reality of the situation for many families is mounting bills for average properties in expensive areas.


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  • #102
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,547 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    mickdw wrote: »
    However the reality of the situation for many families is mounting bills for average properties in expensive areas.

    I posted an article here a few years ago that showed stats that most wealth is Ireland was held in property, thus higher property tax, I'll dig it out again if I can.

    But its not a good area for the left go down as the argument that the wealthy pay more can be easily made.

    Here it is
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85144837&postcount=1827


  • #103
    gladrags
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    None of that is to take away from the legitimate concerns about the high levels of pay and expenditure incurred in the setting up of Irish Water. There are serious problems about how it spent its money. But that cannot translate into "I won't pay for water".

    The serious issues,have and do translate into a refusal to pay.

    So much so,that the protests have uncovered serious flaws in IW,and its ability to perform as a utility,and a conservation savvy company.


  • #104
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,808 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    Jack Killian wrote: »
    0/10 for effort.

    If FG are in power Dinny gets the profit
    If FF are in power Bertie gets the profit
    If SF are in power Slab gets the profit
    If a decent party or set of decent independents is in power, we get a proper water system for our taxes

    Maybe Slab could start up a side business smuggling water from one side of his farm to the other?


  • #105
    Lavinia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,103 ✭✭✭Lavinia


    I sincerely want to believe that water charges will be revoked. It was a pure rip off from poor to rich anyway.
    Would be interesting to see what will really happen and who will keep their promises in that regard, if anyone :o


  • #106
    xz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭xz


    johnnyskeleton wrote:
    If you have a private water scheme and a private waste system, you pay nothing to Irish Water and don't have to be a customer. You only pay for the service you obtain.

    johnnyskeleton wrote:
    None of that is to take away from the legitimate concerns about the high levels of pay and expenditure incurred in the setting up of Irish Water. There are serious problems about how it spent its money. But that cannot translate into "I won't pay for water".


    I never stated that I won't pay, but with the current set up, I'm not paying.... I know they made numerous u-turns, but the fact that they wanted not only mine, but my whole families PPS numbers, was a deal breaker for me, no other utility company looks for that information,nor are they entitled to it


  • #107
    Jack Killian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,663 ✭✭✭Jack Killian


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    If you have a private water scheme and a private waste system, you pay nothing to Irish Water and don't have to be a customer. You only pay for the service you obtain.

    None of that is to take away from the legitimate concerns about the high levels of pay and expenditure incurred in the setting up of Irish Water. There are serious problems about how it spent its money. But that cannot translate into "I won't pay for water".

    Untrue. My LPT went to Irish Water.


  • #108
    xz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭xz


    gctest50 wrote:
    Starting from before IW was set up :

    gctest50 wrote:
    How would you implement it ? ( just a quick step by step thing)

    gctest50 wrote:
    1. ?


    1. LPT...... That's what should be paying for it


  • #109
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    mickdw wrote: »
    The tax on peoples property, purchased with tax paid funds is borderline criminal.

    Is this any different to VAT or stamp duty or VRT?


  • #110
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Happened when they last tried to being in water charges. I told each and every one of my friends to pay nothing until after the election. Some said it was pointless and paid, others didn't pay and have said they owe me a pint. I'd almost guarantee there is something about it in the small print of the T and Cs you signed.

    Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


  • #111
    august12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭august12


    I work in the public service and am fed up of this quango. Its just another layer of bureaucracy to deal with. We, the staff of the local authority are still doing most of the work on a day to day basis. If the money which has been allocated to this new authority had been provided directly to each local authority, then the water issues we have wouldnt be in the state of disrepair they are now. I have no issue with a charge for water. I know the work which goes in to maintain and provide a quality water service, the problem is, lack of funding at local level. It amazes me, the never ending pot of gold to keep Irish Water afloat.


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  • #112
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Starting from before IW was set up :

    How would you implement it ? ( just a quick step by step thing)

    1. ?

    1. I'm from North Co Dublin, so before I started charging people in that area (and there are many others around the country) I'd have it fixed so that raw, unfiltered, untreated sewage wasn't pumped out onto their beaches. Why pay for waste water when I can just walk for 5 mins and cr@p directly on the beach and cut out the middleman??

    2. I'd go to the glorious Union we gain so much from being a part of and demand a grant to upgrade our failing water infrastructure. If that was turned down then the junior bondholders would have been told where to go and this money would have been used. I'd have a decent supply before I started charging people for it.

    3. I would outsource the management and construction of our water systems to people from abroad who have implemented similar programmes in their countries with strict tender conditions and fines for not hitting KPIs.

    4. I would have accepted the free meters from Siemens rather than paying millions to DOB for his ones.

    5. From the get go, I would have a referendum stating that from this date any of Ireland's remaining natural resources could not be sold, and could only remain the sole property of the Irish state.

    That's off the top of my head.


  • #113
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Hurlers on the Ditch are still there and that's where they'll stay. They can shout all the nonsense they like, safe in the knowledge that they will never be called upon to implement their own ideas! All this furore over a few Euro extra a week when our Health service is at breaking point, as is our housing.


  • #114
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    Deleted User wrote:
    The Hurlers on the Ditch are still there and that's where they'll stay. They can shout all the nonsense they like, safe in the knowledge that they will never be called upon to implement their own ideas! All this furore over a few Euro extra a week when our Health service is at breaking point, as is our housing.


    The LPT was only €2 a week according to Enda. Just saying...


  • #115
    Arkady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭Arkady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The Hurlers on the Ditch are still there and that's where they'll stay. They can shout all the nonsense they like, safe in the knowledge that they will never be called upon to implement their own ideas! All this furore over a few Euro extra a week when our Health service is at breaking point, as is our housing.

    When will you be getting off the ditch yourself and standing up to it ?
    While billions were thrown away on Irish water contracts and jobs for cronies, and billions more given to pay off the private debts of bondholders and banks.


  • #116
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Arkady wrote: »
    When will you be getting off the ditch yourself and standing up to it ?
    While billions were thrown away on Irish water contracts and jobs for cronies, and billions more given to pay off the private debts of bondholders and banks.

    I am supporting the Country in the only way I can. By paying my taxes. And before you start on about paying twice, the same could be said for any service we use. We pay on our income via PAYE, we than pay VAT on goods and services.

    I do not sit on the ditch whinging and belittling the hard work being done by others.

    If you want to live in a civilised society, you pay your way. Those that cannot do so, due to whatever reasons, ill health, inability to obtain employment or age, we support through benefits derived from the taxes we pay. Expecting them to contribute a small amount to services they use is only right. Should we cut their benefits, or leave them the dignity of paying for the services they use out of those benefits? Personally, I prefer to leave them their dignity and hope that they see the benefits of getting involved in the running of the country.


  • #117
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    Deleted User wrote:
    I am supporting the Country in the only way I can. By paying my taxes. And before you start on about paying twice, the same could be said for any service we use. We pay on our income via PAYE, we than pay VAT on goods and services.


    When did the water charges become a tax? If it's a tax surely it's a job for revenue to collect and thereby ensuring compliance oh and no privatisation. Win win.


  • #118
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    When did the water charges become a tax? If it's a tax surely it's a job for revenue to collect and thereby ensuring compliance oh and no privatisation. Win win.

    If it's not a tax, then it's a utility bill, and all those who refused to pay it are freeloaders stealing water.


  • #119
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    oscarBravo wrote:
    If it's not a tax, then it's a utility bill, and all those who refused to pay it are freeloaders stealing water.

    So just a question what was paying for water before FG's inspirational set up, the water faeries?Or maybe our taxes?Which?


  • #120
    tina1040
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 479 ✭✭tina1040


    seamus wrote: »

    Tenants who do not clear their bill on moving out will have the balance taken out of their deposits, as the landlord isn't going to pay it himself.

    Landlords don't have to pay a tenant's unpaid bill so no need to deduct from deposits.


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  • #121
    swampgas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭swampgas


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    So just a question what was paying for water before FG's inspirational set up, the water faeries?Or maybe our taxes?Which?

    It wasn't working very well though, and was severely underfunded.

    The need for a national organisation to manage water and waste treatment is undeniable.

    The need to encourage conservation through metering and charges based on usage seems self-evident to me.

    Or do you think we should let people waste all the water they like, and continue to dump untreated sewage into the sea?


This discussion has been closed.
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