Doctors call for ban of tackling in Schools Rugby

sydthebeat · 02-03-2016 02:27PM

former total wrote: »

My point is that engaging in a high-risk activity of your own volition in your spare time is very different to having to do it in a school-mandated activity.

i completely agree... but id ask WHY is that.... and id ask why that wasnt investigated as a precursor to that letter.

irishbucsfan · 02-03-2016 02:36PM

I certainly don't want anyone to be mandated or forced to play rugby. Don't think it helps anyone, don't really agree with forcing any kids to play sports they don't want to at school but I'm no educator or developmental psychologist so I'm probably quite wrong on that. What I do know about is coaching kids who want to play rugby and removing contact for them would be a big mistake.

Jump_In_Jack · 02-03-2016 02:38PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

if they are "rugby schools" that compete in schools competitions then those competitions are under the auspices of the IRFU, and child welfare insists that all coaches are ticketed, players registered etc.

however if we're talking about non rugby schools using rugby as a physical exercise then it would simply be nonsensical to play anything other than touch / tag.

I know that our club CCRO, when introducing rugby to schools, promote tag only

IMO, there should be guidelines for what age it becomes acceptable for a child to start playing full-contact rugby, whether in schools or otherwise.
I would rather the age were increased to U13, and perhaps there should be a minimum weight included to be allowed play.
Perhaps there should be a maximum weight allowed also.
In any case I think it's the responsibility of the Ministers for Health/Sport/Education/Children to debate the issue and come up with a legally binding set of guidelines with specific details that schools and clubs have to abide by.
The IRFU as a subject matter expert of course should inform that debate.

sydthebeat · 02-03-2016 02:50PM

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

1. IMO, there should be guidelines for what age it becomes acceptable for a child to start playing full-contact rugby, whether in schools or otherwise.
I would rather the age were increased to U13, and perhaps there should be a minimum weight included to be allowed play.
Perhaps there should be a maximum weight allowed also.
2. In any case I think it's the responsibility of the Ministers for Health/Sport/Education/Children to debate the issue and come up with a legally binding set of guidelines with specific details that schools and clubs have to abide by.
The IRFU as a subject matter expert of course should inform that debate.

1. well, there is guidelines... both nationally and world wide.

2. its absolutely not in the remit of government to set guidelines for specific sports. The absolute arbiter of the sport of rugby is 'world rugby'

PearlJ · 02-03-2016 03:03PM

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

Can't figure out myself how a responsible parent would put a game over health of their own child. My son was playing hurling but as soon as I saw that there's a risk of injury I took him out and organised some other activities instead. He didn't suffer from not playing it. Never played rugby but it's crazy sport. Not a sport really as it brings injuries rather than good health effects, it's just an organized fight

I'd say its great craic in your house. So what is allowed? Chess? Table tennis?. Or are you concerned with eye strain and tennis elbow?

racso1975 · 02-03-2016 03:08PM

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

IMO, there should be guidelines for what age it becomes acceptable for a child to start playing full-contact rugby, whether in schools or otherwise.
I would rather the age were increased to U13, and perhaps there should be a minimum weight included to be allowed play.
Perhaps there should be a maximum weight allowed also.
In any case I think it's the responsibility of the Ministers for Health/Sport/Education/Children to debate the issue and come up with a legally binding set of guidelines with specific details that schools and clubs have to abide by.
The IRFU as a subject matter expert of course should inform that debate.

How can you even see that playing out?? How can it only be rugby especially given the recent concussion controversy in the GAA during an inter county game or the recent publication in relation to the huge increase in hip surgeries in younger players. You are talking about a complete nanny state situation.

Scythica · 02-03-2016 03:24PM

Only thing in my mind right now

Flipper22 · 02-03-2016 03:29PM

former total wrote: »

I don't think I get your point. There is no claim by anyone that rugby at school is any higher risk than club rugby. My point is that engaging in a high-risk activity of your own volition in your spare time is very different to having to do it in a school-mandated activity.

I don't think any schools play contact rugby during PE, it's not really practical.

Some of the rugby schools do have 'compulsory' rugby for the first couple of months of first year, but the reality is that parents have a veto on this which they will excercise if either they or the kid really doesn't want to play. My experience would be that the ones who do play but have no real interest won't really involve themselves in any proper contact anyway, and then give up after the two months. They're not the ones who get injured. I'm not sure it's a great idea anyway, but that's not because kids with no ability or interest are likely to get hurt. That's not really the case.

irishbucsfan · 02-03-2016 03:40PM

Flipper22 wrote: »

I don't think any schools play contact rugby during PE, it's not really practical.

Some of the rugby schools do have 'compulsory' rugby for the first couple of months of first year, but the reality is that parents have a veto on this which they will excercise if either they or the kid really doesn't want to play. My experience would be that the ones who do play but have no real interest won't really involve themselves in any proper contact anyway, and then give up after the two months. They're not the ones who get injured. I'm not sure it's a great idea anyway, but that's not because kids with no ability or interest are likely to get hurt. That's not really the case.

I think it might be different in England, no idea if it's the case or not but from the letter I get the impression that it goes on during PE during schools and is mandatory.

Flipper22 · 02-03-2016 04:03PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think it might be different in England, no idea if it's the case or not but from the letter I get the impression that it goes on during PE during schools and is mandatory.

Yeah I think that's true.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 02-03-2016 04:06PM

Seems like a bad idea to not teach kids how to tackle properly and then to throw them out against mammoth French forwards who will make bits of them. Unless the entire world operates this policy it is a total non runner. And that won't happen.

shrapnel222 · 02-03-2016 04:36PM

why not look at the NZ system where they match kids by weight and not by age?

Surely that reduces a significant part of the "dangerous" side of the game (weight mismatches and poor tackling technique=injury), and this also has the advantage of encouraging running rugby as there is no advantage gained by running at people.

sydthebeat · 02-03-2016 04:50PM

shrapnel222 wrote: »

why not look at the NZ system where they match kids by weight and not by age?

Surely that reduces a significant part of the "dangerous" side of the game (weight mismatches and poor tackling technique=injury), and this also has the advantage of encouraging running rugby as there is no advantage gained by running at people.

thats not exactly correct

they grade by age..... but if kids are above certain weight bands, they will move up to the next age grade

http://playerwelfare.worldrugby.org/?subsection=64

and this is there for ethnic reasons amongst others

This has been done in these territories due to the concerns regarding the larger size of some children, especially from ethnic backgrounds where children tend to develop earlier, compared to the average for their age and the perceived injury risk to smaller children when playing with or against them

awec · 02-03-2016 04:53PM

Flipper22 wrote: »

I don't think any schools play contact rugby during PE, it's not really practical.

Some of the rugby schools do have 'compulsory' rugby for the first couple of months of first year, but the reality is that parents have a veto on this which they will excercise if either they or the kid really doesn't want to play. My experience would be that the ones who do play but have no real interest won't really involve themselves in any proper contact anyway, and then give up after the two months. They're not the ones who get injured. I'm not sure it's a great idea anyway, but that's not because kids with no ability or interest are likely to get hurt. That's not really the case.

This is exactly my experience.

There was no point in full contact rugby in my school during PE because the skill levels and understanding of the rules weren't at a sufficient level that you'd actually learn anything from it. It would just be a big waste of time for everyone.

The only people who played contact were the teams and they trained seperately, everyone else just played touch (which has most of the more complicated laws of rugby are removed).

Webbs · 02-03-2016 05:22PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think it might be different in England, no idea if it's the case or not but from the letter I get the impression that it goes on during PE during schools and is mandatory.

Most schools in South Wales would have had mandatory rugby for a while in secondary schools during PE.

Our school had a guy who had played for Pontypridd and a couple of spots on the Welsh bench so I suppose we were lucky but we were taught all the basics for a long time before a tackle was made in anger. Once it became clear who wanted to play then it was either rugby for them, and a kick around soccer game for those not interested or the dreaded cross country run.

nice_guy80 · 02-03-2016 05:34PM

It is about competitive rugby in the school systems

Children being forced to play full contact rugby when clearly they are not ready physically for it

the UK government is forcing rugby on the schools system (Tories)

2smiggy · 02-03-2016 05:54PM

i went to a 'Rugby school' but i was never forced to play. There were other sports like GAA for those who did not like rugby. If you preferred to do nothing and just smoke fags , you could do this as well

Those who were good at rugby were definitely encouraged, but I never seen anyone forced to play.

sydthebeat · 02-03-2016 06:00PM

just heard the doctor on the last word... 'scaremongering' doesnt cover his language

awec · 02-03-2016 06:17PM

2smiggy wrote: »

i went to a 'Rugby school' but i was never forced to play. There were other sports like GAA for those who did not like rugby. If you preferred to do nothing and just smoke fags , you could do this as well

Those who were good at rugby were definitely encouraged, but I never seen anyone forced to play.

I didn't play and spent my PE sessions in the pool, sauna and Jacuzzi. Much more rewarding.

former total · 02-03-2016 06:23PM

Awec went to school in the Playboy Mansion apparently

its_phil · 02-03-2016 07:51PM

Does anyone know any schools where full contact rugby is compulsory? Can't say I heard of any myself.

FortySeven · 02-03-2016 08:00PM

I think making children walk to school would have a much more positive effect on the health and wellbeing of our youngfolk. Obesity is a formidable issue, childhood injuries from rugby are marginal. Barking up the wrong tree here IMHO.

Since when did we become so averse to our children being injured? It was pretty normal when I was a kid to be covered in scrapes and bruises and the odd black eye or broken bone.

The Rape of Lucretia · 02-03-2016 08:09PM

So thats it then. Done and dusted.
The beginning of the end. There is no rugby without the tackle. There is no rugby without rugby in schools.

Still, it was good while it lasted wasnt it ? We enjoyed playing it, following it, talking about it.

Hard to argue with them really. It is too dangerous for responsible parents to let their kids play.

How long to you think rugby has left, 20 years or so?

Se yous all in the All Things Retro forum some day.

LeinsterDub · 02-03-2016 08:15PM

WR response http://www.worldrugby.org/news/142105

awec · 02-03-2016 08:18PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

So thats it then. Done and dusted.
The beginning of the end. There is no rugby without the tackle. There is no rugby without rugby in schools.

Still, it was good while it lasted wasnt it ? We enjoyed playing it, following it, talking about it.

Hard to argue with them really. It is too dangerous for responsible parents to let their kids play.

How long to you think rugby has left, 20 years or so?

Se yous all in the All Things Retro forum some day.

Do you enjoy bowls?

IRLConor · 02-03-2016 08:34PM

its_phil wrote: »

Does anyone know any schools where full contact rugby is compulsory? Can't say I heard of any myself.

It was compulsory in my school when I was there, but given that I stopped playing roughly 20 years ago I suspect things have changed. I had to play from 3rd-6th class in primary school and in 1st year.

02-03-2016 08:42PM

I for one think this is forward thinking. They should trial this in English and maybe Welsh schools for the next 20 years and compare it to the last 20 years to see if things improve.

Actually with the playing population in New Zealand it probably makes sense to give it the aul whirl there too.

FortySeven · 02-03-2016 08:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I for one think this is forward thinking. They should trial this in English and maybe Welsh schools for the next 20 years and compare it to the last 20 years to see if things improve.

Actually with the playing population in New Zealand it probably makes sense to give it the aul whirl there too.

What needs to improve and what are we moving forward to exactly?

02-03-2016 08:52PM

FortySeven wrote: »

What needs to improve and what are we moving forward to exactly?

The Rape of Lucretia · 02-03-2016 08:53PM

FortySeven wrote: »

What needs to improve and what are we moving forward to exactly?

The success of Irish rugby I'll wager !

Doctors call for ban of tackling in Schools Rugby

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