Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

StringerBell · 01-03-2016 09:51AM

beno619 wrote: »

Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. Sitting on the bench for 6 months behind a misfiring Rooney wasn't great for Wilson's development.

When do the excuses for players run out?

6 months with only making the bench once before the European game didn't seem to do much harm to Rashford if we are going to say silly things.

Wilson was given chances, Wilson did not take them, it is painfully obvious, and was at the time he needed a loan, he has now got one and hopefully he can progress there. It is up to him now to take his chance in a lower league and get some game time and goals or at least have some noteworthy performances.

The main point regardless was that using Wilson being unable to break in to the Brighton team as an excuse to fire a pop shot at Van Gaal is dumb, really really dumb.

bangkok · 01-03-2016 09:52AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I hope not - the guy needs to be got rid of in the summer.

We thought he had turned a corner around the same time last season when we whupped Spurs and Liverpool - and then it all went to crap again, and this season has been consistently crap up until the last week - during which we beat a crap danish side (having lost to them) a relegation threatened division 3 side and an Arsenal side doing their annual spring folding. The arsenal game is the only one of credit, imo.

As for the injuries - it is a 'meh' excuse imo. Relying on injury prone players and a small squad - injuries is what you are going to get. He reaped what he sewed.

Much like last season you can argue he has lucked into a run of form and style. Lets see if this upturn in form lasts, and whether he goes back to shoe-horning in Fellaini and Rooney when they return, for example.

you cant say that in fairness....

Take Messi, Suarez, Neymar, Iniesta, Rakitic, Busquets, Alba, Pique, Alves, Mascherano, Turan all out of the Barca team and see how good they are.

I read a good article the other day, I will try to find link, saying how this season van Gaal had his team set up the way he wanted. He always uses small squads so he can give young players a chance. Young players don't get a chance using big squads. Jose Mourinho uses big squads but never picks youth.

the plan for this season, according to the article was to have 2 fast full backs who would push up, (Shaw/Darmain), 2 centre backs and Daley Blind would sit in front and act as a play maker from deep, taking the ball from defenders and passing the ball out and he would drop into a back 3 without the ball.

Carrick would play ahead of Blind along with one of Herrera, Bastian or Morgan depending on opposition.

Martial would have been used a lot less than he has been now and would have played more as a striker along with Rooney, while Mata, Depay, Young and a youth team player (probably Lingard) would battle it out for other place.

Shaws injury threw them plans out the window very early in the season.

01-03-2016 09:53AM

StringerBell wrote: »

When do the excuses for players run out?

6 months with only making the bench once before the European game didn't seem to do much harm to Rashford if we are going to say silly things.

Wilson was given chances, Wilson did not take them, it is painfully obvious, and was at the time he needed a loan, he has now got one and hopefully he can progress there. It is up to him now to take his chance in a lower league and get some game time and goals or at least have some noteworthy performances.

The main point regardless was that using Wilson being unable to break in to the Brighton team as an excuse to fire a pop shot at Van Gaal is dumb, really really dumb.

Exactly

StringerBell · 01-03-2016 09:55AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

With some fans it does though.

Remember the fact a spikey press conference (in which he deflected and avoided blame) won over a load of fans.

A lot The vast majority of fans are very fickle.

To be fair.

Flint Fredstone · 01-03-2016 09:58AM

beno619 wrote: »

Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. Sitting on the bench for 6 months behind a misfiring Rooney wasn't great for Wilson's development.

Can you remember Wilson putting in any kind of performance under LVG that would suggest he should have been the main striker?
Wasn't Wilson still playing with the U21s? It's not like he was rotting away on the bench doing nothing. He would have been training with and learning from the senior players.

The fact that he can't get a game for Brighton is not LVG's fault. If his lack of games for United is having an effect on his current situation that's his problem and it reeks of being mentally weak. He had no divine right to be playing regular football at United.

beno619 · 01-03-2016 10:02AM

StringerBell wrote: »

When do the excuses for players run out?

6 months with only making the bench once before the European game didn't seem to do much harm to Rashford if we are going to say silly things.

Wilson was given chances, Wilson did not take them, it is painfully obvious, and was at the time he needed a loan, he has now got one and hopefully he can progress there. It is up to him now to take his chance in a lower league and get some game time and goals or at least have some noteworthy performances.

The main point regardless was that using Wilson being unable to break in to the Brighton team as an excuse to fire a pop shot at Van Gaal is dumb, really really dumb.

When will we stop making excuses for shocking management ?

Rashford got into the side at a time where we were playing decent football im sure if he played in the same side's Wilson has had to people would be writing him off as well.

I didn't make a pop at LVG based on him being dropped by Brighton im just continuing to highlight he has doe feck all to develop our young players.

Does anyone not think Wilson could have scored the goals Rashford has the past week ?

bucketybuck · 01-03-2016 10:02AM

StringerBell wrote: »

6 months with only making the bench once before the European game didn't seem to do much harm to Rashford if we are going to say silly things.

If you are going to equate the two then Wilson scored two goals on his debut as well. In other words, it remains to be seen if Rashfords exploits at this stage are anything more than an anomaly, I wouldn't rush to use him as an example of anything just yet.

bangkok · 01-03-2016 10:02AM

17 players all injured.....

Anthony Martial, Wayne Rooney, Bastian Schweinsteiger, Luke Shaw, Ashley Young, Antonio Valencia, Chris Smalling, Matteo Darmian, Phil Jones, Sam Johnstone, Donald Love, Marouane Fellaini, Axel Tuanzebe, Cameron Borthwick-Jackson, Marcos Rojo, Sean Goss, Will Keane.

:eek:

beno619 · 01-03-2016 10:05AM

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Can you remember Wilson putting in any kind of performance under LVG that would suggest he should have been the main striker?
Wasn't Wilson still playing with the U21s? It's not like he was rotting away on the bench doing nothing. He would have been training with and learning from the senior players.

The fact that he can't get a game for Brighton is not LVG's fault. If his lack of games for United is having an effect on his current situation that's his problem and it reeks of being mentally weak. He had no divine right to be playing regular football at United.

Performances under LVG shouldn't be a yardstick to measure forwards.

Rooney, Falcao, RVP, Hernandez, you can substitute any of those players into your last post and end up with the same result.

As ive already stated, Wilson going backwards is almost certainly LVG's fault, being picked for Brighton is another matter.

"Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. Sitting on the bench for 6 months behind a misfiring Rooney wasn't great for Wilson's development."

bucketybuck · 01-03-2016 10:08AM

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

The fact that he can't get a game for Brighton is not LVG's fault. If his lack of games for United is having an effect on his current situation that's his problem and it reeks of being mentally weak. He had no divine right to be playing regular football at United.

I think a player stuck on the bench for months behind underperforming players will indeed be challenged mentally in a different way to a young lad ticking along in a youth team who is then thrown in at the deep end. The motivations and enthusiasm will of course be different, thats only human nature.

Its the same reason I suspect Periera might not make a big impact should he ever finally get a game, he has been sitting chaffing there all season and its bound to put a different type of pressure on him to perform.

Flint Fredstone · 01-03-2016 10:11AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think a player stuck on the bench for months behind underperforming players will indeed be challenged mentally in a different way to a young lad ticking along in a youth team who is then thrown in at the deep end. The motivations and enthusiasm will of course be different, thats only human nature.

Its the same reason I suspect Periera might not make a big impact should he ever finally get a game, he has been sitting chaffing there all season and its bound to put a different type of pressure on him to perform.

Pereira is still ticking along in a youth team.

beno619 · 01-03-2016 10:12AM

I hope all the people loosing the run of themselves re Rashford don't do a 180 once he misses the odd one on one or is forced to play in a crap turgid system like they have with. RVP, Falcao, Hernandez, Welbeck and now Wilson.

I actually missed the last 2 games so cant comment but im delighted for the lad but its not so long ago people were raving about Wilson and now there's not enough cope up to realised he's been messed about by LVG.

StringerBell · 01-03-2016 10:13AM

beno619 wrote: »

When will we stop making excuses for shocking management ?

Rashford got into the side at a time where we were playing decent football im sure if he played in the same side's Wilson has had to people would be writing him off as well.

I didn't make a pop at LVG based on him being dropped by Brighton im just continuing to highlight he has doe feck all to develop our young players.

Does anyone not think Wilson could have scored the goals Rashford has the past week ?

1. I didn't make any excuse or comment regarding management.
2. Conjecture
3. Didn't say you did.
4. Irrelevant and pointless.

beno619 · 01-03-2016 10:14AM

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Pereira is still ticking along in a youth team.

Should have kicked on this season but I think you already know that.

StringerBell · 01-03-2016 10:14AM

bucketybuck wrote: »

If you are going to equate the two then Wilson scored two goals on his debut as well. In other words, it remains to be seen if Rashfords exploits at this stage are anything more than an anomaly, I wouldn't rush to use him as an example of anything just yet.

Could I use him to say silly things? Like I said?

bucketybuck · 01-03-2016 10:16AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

With some fans it does though.

Remember the fact a spikey press conference (in which he deflected and avoided blame) won over a load of fans.

An interesting question is what would it take for Van Gaal to win me over, apart from the obvious answer of "getting the **** out."

For me it isn't necessarily about trophies, scraping into an FA cup or Europa league win wouldn't get him a pass from me. I want to see the team genuinely performing well and getting good results for an extended period, not scraping wins against poor teams, but actually playing good effective football and looking like a top team again. Most importantly there needs to be genuine signs of progress in the team, I want to be able point to players that have improved under his management, that have turned from good players into great players on a consistent basis.

Its been nearly two years of rubbish, it will need to be a good 8/10 months of good performances to even start to erase that memory and overturn the ****ups he has made. He doesn't need to win trophies as such, he just has to get them playing consistently to the level we should be at.

A few good games and stumbling into 4th wouldn't come close to winning me over.

StringerBell · 01-03-2016 10:16AM

beno619 wrote: »

I hope all the people loosing the run of themselves re Rashford don't do a 180 once he misses the odd one on one or is forced to play in a crap turgid system like they have with. RVP, Falcao, Hernandez, Welbeck and now Wilson.

I actually missed the last 2 games so cant comment but im delighted for the lad but its not so long ago people were raving about Wilson and now there's not enough cope up to realised he's been messed about by LVG.

Who is LOSING (notice the 1 o) the run of themselves over the lad? Barring the usual tongue in cheek posts every one serious has urged caution and restraint when it comes to him.

Edit: Do your club a favour and miss the next few games too actually will you?

Flint Fredstone · 01-03-2016 10:17AM

beno619 wrote: »

Performances under LVG shouldn't be a yardstick to measure forwards.

Rooney, Falcao, RVP, Hernandez, you can substitute any of those players into your last post and end up with the same result.

As ive already stated, Wilson going backwards is almost certainly LVG's fault, being picked for Brighton is another matter.

"Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. Sitting on the bench for 6 months behind a misfiring Rooney wasn't great for Wilson's development."

You can rightly or wrongly lay the blame for his "going backwards" while still at United at LVGs door. If he's still going backwards months later at a different club then that's most definitely his own problem.

I've been totally unimpressed by him outside of the youth setup to be quite honest. My memories of him are running around chewing gum and trying to look busy.

bucketybuck · 01-03-2016 10:18AM

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Pereira is still ticking along in a youth team.

:rolleyes:

beno619 · 01-03-2016 10:18AM

StringerBell wrote: »

1. I didn't make any excuse or comment regarding management.
2. Conjecture
3. Didn't say you did.
4. Irrelevant and pointless.

So do you believe LVG has helped develop Wilson or has he gone backwards ?

Original post.

"Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. Sitting on the bench for 6 months behind a misfiring Rooney wasn't great for Wilson's development."

Flint Fredstone · 01-03-2016 10:20AM

beno619 wrote: »

Should have kicked on this season but I think you already know that.

Why??? What has he done to take the place of someone else like Mata? Another that has flattered to deceive when given chances. Oh but you can't judge his performances under Van Gaal I hear you cry. Well guess what, he's the manager he has to impress.

Flint Fredstone · 01-03-2016 10:24AM

This place is laughable. A couple of good performances and there's nothing to whinge about so they whinge about an academy player not getting a game at fúcking Brighton. Well done lads, you've surpassed my expectations.

StringerBell · 01-03-2016 10:24AM

beno619 wrote: »

So do you believe LVG has helped develop Wilson or has he gone backwards ?

Original post.

"Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. Sitting on the bench for 6 months behind a misfiring Rooney wasn't great for Wilson's development."

Nope, your post is not the original post.

That would be Tyson Fury.

Your post was basically a non-sequitur to the response(s) that followed.

beno619 · 01-03-2016 10:25AM

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Why??? What has he done to take the place of someone else like Mata? Another that has flattered to deceive when given chances. Oh but you can't judge his performances under Van Gaal I hear you cry. Well guess what, he's the manager he has to impress.

There were plenty of opportunities to drop the under-performing Mata this season, or to bring him in for Memphis and rotate him with Jessie.

Not sure how he's flattered either.

beno619 · 01-03-2016 10:26AM

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

This place is laughable. A couple of good performances and there's nothing to whinge about so they whinge about an academy player not getting a game at fúcking Brighton. Well done lads, you've surpassed my expectations.

Lovely strawman :rolleyes:

bangkok · 01-03-2016 10:26AM

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

This place is laughable. A couple of good performances and there's nothing to whinge about so they whinge about an academy player not getting a game at fúcking Brighton. Well done lads, you've surpassed my expectations.

yea its a joke!!

he is clearly not good enough, but could become a useful player down the line for some club, it just wont be a United or else he is a late developer and will have a good career at Utd, cant see it though

beno619 · 01-03-2016 10:27AM

StringerBell wrote: »

Nope, your post is not the original post.

That would be Tyson Fury.

Your post was basically a non-sequitur to the response(s) that followed.

You quoted that post to go on your rant.

Were you responding to me or Tyson when you quoted my post ?

bucketybuck · 01-03-2016 10:29AM

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Another that has flattered to deceive when given chances.

80 minutes over 4 sub appearances. Rashford already has more time on the field in 2 games than Periera has had all season.

Thats not giving the lad a chance, thats stringing him along all season, so to return to the point you either completely missed or deliberately ignored in my original post, of course it has an effect on these young lads mentally. Just ask Pogba what he thinks of that sort of thing.

Flint Fredstone · 01-03-2016 10:29AM

beno619 wrote: »

Lovely strawman :rolleyes:

That's the truth, that was the sole purpose of Tyson Fury's post.

StringerBell · 01-03-2016 10:32AM

beno619 wrote: »

You quoted that post to go on your rant.

Were you responding to me or Tyson when you quoted my post ?

In all fairness you can't expect me to spoon feed this to you and since you are now just making things up, i.e. rant, I suppose its time to end this one.

It was nice while it lased though wasn't it

Another good result during the week might buy a few more hours peace in here!

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Warning link in OP 20/3

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