Be still my beating heart

Ososlo · 08-02-2016 10:25PM

chickey2 wrote: »

You definitely seem to be suited to the long distances! 24 hour race next? It's perfect for insomniacs!

ha!

Exactly wrote: »

Great work A. Fair play to Frank. If you get a chance have a chat to him in Lusk. He has experience of both your goal races ;-)

You know EVERYBODY!

aero2k wrote: »

Jaysus isn't she mad enough without you giving her ideas..

Righto, time to 'fess up...

The goal race since last August has been Belfast 24 hour 2016. All roads -Staplestown, Lusk, Connemara - are leading to Belfast, my bucket-list race.
Wasn't going to say anything until after Connemara as I feared the reaction to be honest.... but seeing as it was mentioned! And my training will make more sense (as my loops get smaller:D) now. A handful of ye know about it already, so thanks for keeping schtum! All out in the open now!

Never looked forward to anything more if I'm honest. I'm going to put everything into the prep for this race and want to do well.

So there!

annapr · 08-02-2016 11:01PM

OMG! You are a certifiable mad woman!!!! Fair play to you. You seem to have so much resilience for the long distances, looking forward to seeing how you get on with it. Endless 4 mile loops.... Aaarghhhh

Firedance · 09-02-2016 07:56AM

annapr wrote: »

OMG! You are a certifiable mad woman!!!! Fair play to you. You seem to have so much resilience for the long distances, looking forward to seeing how you get on with it. Endless 4 mile loops.... Aaarghhhh

+ 1 to this! Especially the certifiable bit

the best of luck with it though & as Anna said, looking forward to seeing it all unfold

RubyK · 09-02-2016 09:08AM

Ososlo wrote: »

thanks!
LSR won't go much beyond what I've been doing. Another mile or two maybe, but feeling pretty confident at this stage of being able to manage the distance without having to go too much further in training. Weekly mileage won't increase that much either. A lot depends on what I can personally fit in each week depending on how busy I am with other RL stuff.

RubyK, how's the marathon training going?

You seem extremely well prepared for the Ultra already!! High mileage seem to be second nature to you.

Marathon training going ok for me, 2nd 20m on the plan this weekend, so I'll be happy to get that done

aquinn · 09-02-2016 10:15AM

MAD, absolutely MAD, yet so happy. I'm confused.

All the very best.

#nuts

aquinn · 09-02-2016 10:15AM

MAD, absolutely MAD, yet so happy. I'm confused.

All the very best.

#nuts

Murph_D · 09-02-2016 05:29PM

Interesting. Definitely a different kind of challenge. You'll need to put together a good support team to look after you on the day. Best of luck with it.

chickey2 · 09-02-2016 06:49PM

LOL I was only half joking when I said that. Very best of luck with it. You seem to be thriving on the the longer distances so with the proper training you'll do it.

Chivito550 · 10-02-2016 12:07PM

Probably would have been best to keep it quiet to be honest. There is a danger now it could distract you from your more immediate goal of the Connemara Ultra. Already the conversation here has focused away from what appeared to be the goal, towards something else.

demfad · 10-02-2016 01:11PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Probably would have been best to keep it quiet to be honest. There is a danger now it could distract you from your more immediate goal of the Connemara Ultra. Already the conversation here has focused away from what appeared to be the goal, towards something else.

Eh Yes...towards the actual goal.

Ososlo has been aware of this since August as she said...she didnt just find out about this recently.
Its big news and ofcourse the conversation will acknowledge that. People can see the Conn ultra and previous runs in the context of the long term goal now. Great stuff.
Also. There are people on this site with excellent experience of this type of race. No doubt, Ososlo will get the benefit of this too as time goes by.
She is taking to the long stuff very easily. Will be great to see how she progresses.

Firedance · 10-02-2016 01:36PM

hear hear ^^^^^

Chivito550 · 10-02-2016 01:56PM

Firedance wrote: »

here here ^^^^^

?

Maximus Alexander · 10-02-2016 02:06PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

?

It's a term usually employed to express agreement with, or approval for, a statement.

Firedance · 10-02-2016 02:07PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It's a term usually employed to express agreement with, or approval for, a statement.

thanks Max

Chivtto is pointing out to the world that I spelled it incorrectly though, thanks Chivitto, much appreciated indeed

Chivito550 · 10-02-2016 04:43PM

demfad wrote: »

Eh Yes...towards the actual goal.

Ososlo has been aware of this since August as she said...she didnt just find out about this recently.
Its big news and ofcourse the conversation will acknowledge that. People can see the Conn ultra and previous runs in the context of the long term goal now. Great stuff.
Also. There are people on this site with excellent experience of this type of race. No doubt, Ososlo will get the benefit of this too as time goes by.
She is taking to the long stuff very easily. Will be great to see how she progresses.

Yes, definitely putting in good mileage I agree, and I think will go well in Connemara (assuming it is raced properly, and is treated as a goal, rather than as training for something else). But the marathon runs are about 30 minutes slower than current ability, so one would assume this should be comfortable enough for somebody so experienced. In addition, the paces of pretty much every run are roughly the same, which all appear very comfortable. There doesn't seem to be any variation in pace, and little in the way of sessions. I'm not sure if this is a complete approach towards an ultra race, though maybe I'm wrong.

People saying that Ososlo is taking to the long stuff like a duck to water give the impression that she is more suited to this than the shorter distances. I would disagree. I believe there is considerable ability there which is not being used over these distances. Maybe the longer stuff suits more in that one might be able to get away with just comfortable running more than if training for a 10km or half marathon, but that would be a mind over matter thing, not an ability issue.

demfad · 10-02-2016 05:43PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Yes, definitely putting in good mileage I agree, and I think will go well in Connemara (assuming it is raced properly, and is treated as a goal, rather than as training for something else). But the marathon runs are about 30 minutes slower than current ability, so one would assume this should be comfortable enough for somebody so experienced. In addition, the paces of pretty much every run are roughly the same, which all appear very comfortable. There doesn't seem to be any variation in pace, and little in the way of sessions. I'm not sure if this is a complete approach towards an ultra race, though maybe I'm wrong.

People saying that Ososlo is taking to the long stuff like a duck to water give the impression that she is more suited to this than the shorter distances. I would disagree. I believe there is considerable ability there which is not being used over these distances. Maybe the longer stuff suits more in that one might be able to get away with just comfortable running more than if training for a 10km or half marathon, but that would be a mind over matter thing, not an ability issue.

I don't think I'm seeing the training that you're seeing. Have you actually looked at her training properly? AFAICS she is also doing one hour Aerobic Threshold runs which is more or less a 1 hr run at 2hr race pace. Try it some time, see how comfortable you feel doing one.
She is also doing periodic aerobic strides sessions of 15-18 times 40s fast.
Also try doing a marathon as a training run. You wont like it, you wont take to it like a duck to water. Know why? It is because you are not suited to it. Your relative lack of slow twitch fibres would make the experience exceedingly unpleasant would it not? Apply this to Ososlo who loves the long stuff. What do you think now? Slow twitch or fast?
The marathon runs are actually at a relevant pace to Ultra's. Id assume you want to be teaching the body to burn fat at this distance. And then slowly improving strenght at that fat burning rate etc. etc
The big mileage at fat burning paces reinforces this adaption. Do you see now what running 10k-HM glygoen burning sessions might be a bad idea of youre going to be surviving on Fat alone come race day?

But the goal is clearly the 24 hr. Im no expert but I know from marathons that you need to prepare a long way out. For a 24 hr a lot longer way out.
Youve acknowledged that she is an experienced runner. She has tried and completed an array of sessions at all paces some of them wincingly tough indeed.

Youve also acknowledged that you dont know much about Ultra training. Could you comsider the possibility that you may be... wrong.... about Ososlo's training and maybe she is right?

Edit: Actually, your intial point was only that she should have stayed quiet about them. I dont know why you branched off to criticise her plans.

Chivito550 · 10-02-2016 09:06PM

demfad wrote: »

I don't think I'm seeing the training that you're seeing. Have you actually looked at her training properly? AFAICS she is also doing one hour Aerobic Threshold runs which is more or less a 1 hr run at 2hr race pace. Try it some time, see how comfortable you feel doing one.
She is also doing periodic aerobic strides sessions of 15-18 times 40s fast.
Also try doing a marathon as a training run. You wont like it, you wont take to it like a duck to water. Know why? It is because you are not suited to it. Your relative lack of slow twitch fibres would make the experience exceedingly unpleasant would it not? Apply this to Ososlo who loves the long stuff. What do you think now? Slow twitch or fast?
The marathon runs are actually at a relevant pace to Ultra's. Id assume you want to be teaching the body to burn fat at this distance. And then slowly improving strenght at that fat burning rate etc. etc
The big mileage at fat burning paces reinforces this adaption. Do you see now what running 10k-HM glygoen burning sessions might be a bad idea of youre going to be surviving on Fat alone come race day?

But the goal is clearly the 24 hr. Im no expert but I know from marathons that you need to prepare a long way out. For a 24 hr a lot longer way out.
Youve acknowledged that she is an experienced runner. She has tried and completed an array of sessions at all paces some of them wincingly tough indeed.

Youve also acknowledged that you dont know much about Ultra training. Could you comsider the possibility that you may be... wrong.... about Ososlo's training and maybe she is right?

Edit: Actually, your intial point was only that she should have stayed quiet about them. I dont know why you branched off to criticise her plans.

Of course I could be wrong. And I believe I stated this:

I'm not sure if this is a complete approach towards an ultra race, though maybe I'm wrong.

I also didn't intend to criticise plans. I was bringing a different angle to the comments that people say that she is made for the long stuff. I happen to think she can be a good half marathon and marathon runner, and was trying to illustrate my point (not well clearly!), and it's a pity that she is effectively giving up on this by running a 24 hour race (I'm sure she'll still run these distances, but not to the best of her ability if the focus is 24 hour).

Anyway, regarding the training, it was just an observation regarding a lack of variation between paces of runs. I've never seen same pacing on other logs to this degree. Maybe this is the approach for a 24 hour race, I have no idea. It doesn't strike me as a common approach for a short ultra though. The only real variation I have seen is the 2 hour race pace sessions, which aren't drastically faster than easy pace, and the occasional 40 second strides, which no times and paces are recorded. This is not a criticism, but more that I believe there is much more there at the shorter distances if she does the appropriate work. I very doubt she's a genetic freak who is made for extreme ultras. I have no doubt she could excel from 10k up if she wants to.

Anyway, I won't derail any further. I think advice should be welcomed on logs. It doesn't need to be followed. I've ignored plenty of advice on my log, and am glad I did!

demfad · 10-02-2016 09:46PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

I was bringing a different angle to the comments that people say that she is made for the long stuff. .........I think advice should be welcomed on logs. It doesn't need to be followed. I've ignored plenty of advice on my log, and am glad I did!

The angle you brought was that Ososlo should not have told readers her A race because it might distract from her B race.

Chivito when I saw that you had commented on this log and truthfully before I even opened to look: I would have bet my house, car, anything that your comment was negative. You may not give a rats rear what people think of what you write on this forum. But in your position surely you should be trying for quality. You can do better than your initial comment here. Show us some of the good stuff.

Chivito550 · 10-02-2016 10:01PM

demfad wrote: »

The angle you brought was that Ososlo should not have told readers her A race because it might distract from her B race.

Chivito when I saw that you had commented on this log and truthfully before I even opened to look: I would have bet my house, car, anything that your comment was negative. You may not give a rats rear what people think of what you write on this forum. But in your position surely you should be trying for quality. You can do better than your initial comment here. Show us some of the good stuff.

A real pity you had to get personal with your comment.

Seems like only congratulatory comments are welcome here so. I prefer to keep such sentiments for race performances, or a key session performed well. I'll get my coat so.

ultrapercy · 11-02-2016 01:00AM

I think it's important in running and in life, to pursue what really inspires and excites you and maybe what scares you a little. As regards ultra I don't think it's necessary to run marathons and halfs just to serve some sort of imaginary apprentiship. Ultra seem to stoke your fire so go for it.
Two opinions I will venture,
1. I think you should do more long intervals at between half and full marathon pace eg 3 x 5k. That pace is good conditioning work for every long distance race.
2. Be prepared for the mental hangover after the 24 hour race. As someone who has expressed difficulties with mental health issues(which everyone has to some degree) and insomnia, I think 24 hours will take its toll on you. I never ran for longer than 8 hours myself but some runners I spoke to said it can take as long as 3 months to get a proper sleep pattern again. This will obviously impact your physical recovery but also your mental health. I say this not to diswade you but rather to forearm you. If you want the goal enough the pain will be worth it but it's also good to be aware of what might be coming. Of course everyone is different and it may not impact you at all, only one way to find out. Best of luck, I'm looking forward to following your progress in the months ahead.

aero2k · 11-02-2016 08:34AM

ultrapercy wrote: »

I think it's important in running and in life, to pursue what really inspires and excites you and maybe what scares you a little. As regards ultra I don't think it's necessary to run marathons and halfs just to serve some sort of imaginary apprentiship. Ultra seem to stoke your fire so go for it.
Two opinions I will venture,
1. I think you should do more long intervals at between half and full marathon pace eg 3 x 5k. That pace is good conditioning work for every long distance race.
2. Be prepared for the mental hangover after the 24 hour race. As someone who has expressed difficulties with mental health issues(which everyone has to some degree) and insomnia, I think 24 hours will take its toll on you. I never ran for longer than 8 hours myself but some runners I spoke to said it can take as long as 3 months to get a proper sleep pattern again. This will obviously impact your physical recovery but also your mental health. I say this not to diswade you but rather to forearm you. If you want the goal enough the pain will be worth it but it's also good to be aware of what might be coming. Of course everyone is different and it may not impact you at all, only one way to find out. Best of luck, I'm looking forward to following your progress in the months ahead.

I think the bit in bold is wonderful advice for life in general - easier said than done but well worth aiming for.

Just to try to give some practical advice and maybe a slightly different perspective: I participated in a 24 hr. relay bike race back in '03 when I was 38. We did get an opportunity to take short naps in the support van but I didn't really sleep, so I was awake for probably 36 hrs. I was only actually competing for about 5 hours so the physical toll would be significantly less, but I can't recall any major sleep difficulties in the weeks and months afterwards.

I've seen the importance of a good back-up crew mentioned elsewhere and I'd second that. We had two vans and 5 crew for a 5-man team so all the cyclists had to do was eat, drink, rest and pedal. If you can get yourself a set-up where all you have to think about during the event is putting one foot in front of the other, that should serve you well.

Best of luck!

Ososlo · 11-02-2016 10:03AM

RubyK wrote: »

Marathon training going ok for me, 2nd 20m on the plan this weekend, so I'll be happy to get that done

Good news RubyK. Hope that goes well for you. Pity you don't have a log as I'd be interested in seeing your training. You on Strava?
Sub 3:30 this year?

Ososlo · 11-02-2016 10:15AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

People saying that Ososlo is taking to the long stuff like a duck to water give the impression that she is more suited to this than the shorter distances. I would disagree. I believe there is considerable ability there which is not being used over these distances. Maybe the longer stuff suits more in that one might be able to get away with just comfortable running more than if training for a 10km or half marathon, but that would be a mind over matter thing, not an ability issue.

Thanks! That's interesting to hear from you. I'll be getting back to the shorter stuff eventually and agree that I can make a lot more progress there.

Ososlo · 11-02-2016 10:41AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

I also didn't intend to criticise plans. I was bringing a different angle to the comments that people say that she is made for the long stuff. I happen to think she can be a good half marathon and marathon runner, and was trying to illustrate my point (not well clearly!), and it's a pity that she is effectively giving up on this by running a 24 hour race (I'm sure she'll still run these distances, but not to the best of her ability if the focus is 24 hour).

Again, thanks.
However, I'm not giving up on doing justice to the half and marathon distances. Far from it. I'm just taking a different path for the first half of this year. I agree that I probably won't run DCM to the best of my ability this year, as it'll probably take me some time to recover fully from the 24 hour and build the training back up, but I wouldn't rule out a spring marathon next year and maybe focus my effort on that.
But for the moment, Belfast 24 hour is complete focus and the main goal.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyway, regarding the training, it was just an observation regarding a lack of variation between paces of runs.I've never seen same pacing on other logs to this degree. Maybe this is the approach for a 24 hour race, I have no idea. It doesn't strike me as a common approach for a short ultra though. The only real variation I have seen is the 2 hour race pace sessions, which aren't drastically faster than easy pace, and the occasional 40 second strides, which no times and paces are recorded. This is not a criticism, but more that I believe there is much more there at the shorter distances if she does the appropriate work. I very doubt she's a genetic freak who is made for extreme ultras. I have no doubt she could excel from 10k up if she wants to.

My easy pace varies from 9:40ish - 10:20ish pace (depending on tiredness etc) so believe me, AT sessions at 8:20-8:30 (done by effort - fast but relaxed) is a tough enough effort for me. It'd be a bit slower than my half marathon effort but not a lot! I'm working hard for a full hour for these sessions and usually feel a lot more tired after them than a do after the very long runs!
I was also doing a weekly strides session - 3 x 6 x 40 secs at 1 mile effort, however, we decided after looking closely at the recovery from the long runs, that it'd be better not to do this session the week immediately after the long long run. I had a bit of groin tightness after the first few long runs so we felt that a fast session on top of this, was a bit too much 3 days after the long run. Recovery is now the sole focus for the days after the long run and I now allow myself 5 days of easy running before doing anything faster again. So the strides session is now done every 2 weeks. Outside of that, yes it's all easy miles with the odd marathon race thrown in to spice things up and for race experience to practice fuelling and running with people etc.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyway, I won't derail any further. I think advice should be welcomed on logs. It doesn't need to be followed. I've ignored plenty of advice on my log, and am glad I did!

Your advice is welcome as is all advice. I don't think I ever said it wasn't. Between me and my coach we'll decide what to take on board and what not to.

Ososlo · 11-02-2016 10:52AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

A real pity you had to get personal with your comment.

Seems like only congratulatory comments are welcome here so. I prefer to keep such sentiments for race performances, or a key session performed well. I'll get my coat so.

This kind of comment really pisses me off. It's a bit condescending to me to be honest. Everyone is entitled to comment how they want on my training or anything that's written on this log and it'll all be considered. I have no problem with anyone questioning anything I do.

So take the coat back off...

Chivito550 · 11-02-2016 10:57AM

Ososlo wrote: »

This kind of comment really pisses me off. It's a bit condescending to me to be honest. Everyone is entitled to comment how they want on my training or anything that's written on this log and it'll all be considered. I have no problem with anyone questioning anything I do.

So take the coat back off...

Actually I wasn't referring to you at all. I suspected you would take the advice in the spirit it was intended. It's everyone else who posts on this log regularly I was referring to, hence why I was berated for saying something to the contrary (many posts have been deleted now).

Ososlo · 11-02-2016 11:07AM

ultrapercy wrote: »

I think it's important in running and in life, to pursue what really inspires and excites you and maybe what scares you a little. As regards ultra I don't think it's necessary to run marathons and halfs just to serve some sort of imaginary apprentiship. Ultra seem to stoke your fire so go for it.
Two opinions I will venture,
1. I think you should do more long intervals at between half and full marathon pace eg 3 x 5k. That pace is good conditioning work for every long distance race.
2. Be prepared for the mental hangover after the 24 hour race. As someone who has expressed difficulties with mental health issues(which everyone has to some degree) and insomnia, I think 24 hours will take its toll on you. I never ran for longer than 8 hours myself but some runners I spoke to said it can take as long as 3 months to get a proper sleep pattern again. This will obviously impact your physical recovery but also your mental health. I say this not to diswade you but rather to forearm you. If you want the goal enough the pain will be worth it but it's also good to be aware of what might be coming. Of course everyone is different and it may not impact you at all, only one way to find out. Best of luck, I'm looking forward to following your progress in the months ahead.

Thanks for the session suggestion. Might be an interesting way to vary things a bit instead of the AT session even.

Interesting points about the mental hangover. Hadn't thought about afterwards at all really! Well I had thought about the physical aftermath but not the mental one! Not a lot I can do except see what happens! But yes, it's good to be forewarned! I had really only considered the mental challenges on the day/night itself!

What was the 8 hour race you did btw?

Ososlo · 11-02-2016 11:19AM

aero2k wrote: »

I think the bit in bold is wonderful advice for life in general - easier said than done but well worth aiming for.

Just to try to give some practical advice and maybe a slightly different perspective: I participated in a 24 hr. relay bike race back in '03 when I was 38. We did get an opportunity to take short naps in the support van but I didn't really sleep, so I was awake for probably 36 hrs. I was only actually competing for about 5 hours so the physical toll would be significantly less, but I can't recall any major sleep difficulties in the weeks and months afterwards.

I've seen the importance of a good back-up crew mentioned elsewhere and I'd second that. We had two vans and 5 crew for a 5-man team so all the cyclists had to do was eat, drink, rest and pedal. If you can get yourself a set-up where all you have to think about during the event is putting one foot in front of the other, that should serve you well.

Best of luck!

Great advice.
Yes the plan is to have 2 teams of 2 people to take turns helping me out (so they get a break too as it can't be an easy job either!). I'm very lucky in so far as I have people who are very supportive and willing to do whatever it takes to help me out on the day/night. Planning and preparation will half the battle I think!

Ososlo · 11-02-2016 11:24AM

demfad wrote: »

Youve acknowledged that she is an experienced runner. She has tried and completed an array of sessions at all paces some of them wincingly tough indeed.

I must say that brought a smile to my face!

I've definitely never been described as that before!
But I guess I do have 4 years of very consistent running under my belt since Couch to 5k!

ultrapercy · 11-02-2016 11:38AM

Ososlo wrote: »

Thanks for the session suggestion. Might be an interesting way to vary things a bit instead of the AT session even.

Interesting points about the mental hangover. Hadn't thought about afterwards at all really! Well I had thought about the physical aftermath but not the mental one! Not a lot I can do except see what happens! But yes, it's good to be forewarned! I had really only considered the mental challenges on the day/night itself!

What was the 8 hour race you did btw?

It was a 100k that went horribly wrong and I do mean horribly. The thing about ultra races is that when they go well they are much the same as any race but when they go wrong they are brutal. When I look back I don't even get much satisfaction that I finished I should have just pulled out. I ran 3 other 100k races that went well, one that went very well and I wouldn't rate them any harder than a good marathon. Planning is everything, gear nutrition, mental tactics for when things get really tough and crew are all very important considerations.I am not an expert on 24 hour races and I think you should consult Enduro and Thomas who are a mine of useful information on the dicipline.

Be still my beating heart

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