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Driving Licence expired while disqualified

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  • 19-01-2016 2:05am
    #1
    Karen23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭


    Does anyone know what the situation is if a driving licence expires during a period of disqualification ?

    Driver got a 3 year ban which finishes in March but he knows the licence will have expired during this time, will he have to re sit the test or what's the procedure.

    Thanks


«1

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    #2
    PeteK*
    Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭PeteK*


    You only resit the test after 10 years of an expired licence.
    I think the 3 years will only commence when the licence is renewed.
    This is a guess going by other circumstances.


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    #3
    Karen23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭Karen23


    PeteK* wrote: »
    You only resit the test after 10 years of an expired licence.
    I think the 3 years will only commence when the licence is renewed.
    This is a guess going by other circumstances.


    Thanks


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    #4
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,362 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    PeteK* wrote: »
    You only resit the test after 10 years of an expired licence.

    Correct, you have to start from scratch and do the theory test.
    PeteK* wrote: »
    I think the 3 years will only commence when the licence is renewed.
    This is a guess going by other circumstances.

    Serious? If my licence expires in 2017 and I was convicted of drink driving and disqualified for 3 years in 2010, what you are saying is that the disqualification doesn't start until I go to renew it in 2017 :confused:

    I believe that when you are disqualified and have exhausted any avenues of appeal, you are supposed to surrender your licence as in hand it in to the court and when the disqualification ends, you can apply for a new licence.


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    #5
    pa990
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    Karen23 wrote: »
    Does anyone know what the situation is if a driving licence expires during a period of disqualification ?

    Driver got a 3 year ban which finishes in March but he knows the licence will have expired during this time, will he have to re sit the test or what's the procedure.

    Thanks

    The licence will have to be renewed.
    The ban only applies to valid licences.

    Ie. If someone is banned from driving but has never held a licence, the ban will only kick in when they apply for a licence.

    Strange but true.

    Best to contact ndls


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    #6
    nicol
    Registered Users Posts: 385 ✭✭nicol


    Yep, best to contact the RSA (1890 41 61 41/ 09625000) to clear it up but it may well be the case that the ban can only be served while a valid licence is held. The ban will effectively pause until the licence is renewed.

    No re-test will be needed if licence is renewed within 10 years of expiration

    HTH


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    #7
    crosstownk
    Registered Users Posts: 12,863 ✭✭✭✭crosstownk


    I'd say renew the licence.

    I had two points on my licence a while back but during the period my licence expired and I forgot to new renew it. Once the licence expired the clock stopped ticking on the 2 points and only started again once I renewed the licence.

    I'd imagine it's a similar situation with disqualification.
    Untitled Image




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    #8
    Karen23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭Karen23


    Oh crap

    So what you reckon is , if there was only 2 years left on the licence and he got a 3 year ban , he'll still have a 1 year ban to serve on the new licence even though it was ordered 3 years ago ?


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    #9
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    Karen23 wrote: »
    Oh crap

    So what you reckon is , if there was only 2 years left on the licence and he got a 3 year ban , he'll still have a 1 year ban to serve even though it was ordered 3 years ago ?

    I'm in no way an expert, but I thought the punishment was to be "Disqualified from holding a license", and not disqualified from driving.

    Obviously the effect of both is the same- you can't drive without holding a license, but if a person is banned for three years from a certain date, then on that day three years later they are entitled to drive, but must have a valid license.

    If the license expired during the ban period, then I would have thought you just apply for a new one once the ban period is up.


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    #10
    SeamusAFA
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 250 ✭✭SeamusAFA


    My cousin got 2 years of road before, licence expired ater 1 year.
    He went back after the 2 years and was told no you had no licence last year, you still have a year to serrve.


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    #11
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,362 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    WD_Raceway wrote: »
    My cousin got 2 years of road before, licence expired ater 1 year.
    He went back after the 2 years and was told no you had no licence last year, you still have a year to serrve.

    How does that work though? If you get disqualified then you're supposed to surrender your licence but according to what you and others are saying, you have to 'renew' your licence to keep the (disqualification) clock running but how can you do that if you have no licence to renew?


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    #12
    Karen23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭Karen23


    coylemj wrote: »
    How does that work though? If you get disqualified then you're supposed to surrender your licence but according to what you and others are saying, you have to 'renew' your licence to keep the (disqualification) clock running but how can you do that if you have no licence to renew?


    This is what he wondered himself, he couldn't renew as he has surrendered his licence to the local Garda station.


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    #13
    PeteK*
    Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭PeteK*


    coylemj wrote: »
    Correct, you have to start from scratch and do the theory test.



    Serious? If my licence expires in 2017 and I was convicted of drink driving and disqualified for 3 years in 2010, what you are saying is that the disqualification doesn't start until I go to renew it in 2017 :confused:

    I believe that when you are disqualified and have exhausted any avenues of appeal, you are supposed to surrender your licence as in hand it in to the court and when the disqualification ends, you can apply for a new licence.
    I think I was wrong on the second part. It makes no difference as to whether your licence is expired, renewed, whatever. So the length of time is what it is.
    By the way, you can also try get your time reduced after half of the ban period has passed, or at least get it reduced some more. Only if it's a ban longer than 2 years.
    Valetta wrote: »

    If the license expired during the ban period, then I would have thought you just apply for a new one once the ban period is up.

    This is correct. You explained it in a sentence. :)

    Though, what WD Raceway says, contradicts us.


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    #14
    STEINBERG
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭STEINBERG


    pa990 wrote: »
    The licence will have to be renewed.
    The ban only applies to valid licences.

    Ie. If someone is banned from driving but has never held a licence, the ban will only kick in when they apply for a licence.

    Strange but true.

    Best to contact ndls

    That is incorrect. Disqualifications do not get put on hold if a driver does not have a licence or holds a valid licence unless we are talking about a penalty point disqualification.

    So to clear things up.

    If you hold a valid licence and you get disqualified for lets say drink driving for two years, you will need to surrender your licence to the NDLS.
    By the time the two year disqualification is up, if your licence is still in date it will be sent back to you once the court restore is put in place.

    If it has expired during the disqualification period you will need to apply for a renewal.This renewal can only be applied for once your disqualification has expired. Please be aware that from the expiry date of a full licence a driver has 10 years to renew before loosing any entitlements and it is 5 years for a learner permit.

    Now lets take a penalty points disqualification. If the expiry date of your licence runs the course of the 6 months disqualification then the licence will be sent back out to you.

    If the licence expires during the penalty point disqualification period then the penalty points basically get put on hold until you renew your licence.
    What happens in this case is the licence is printed but held at the NDLS until the disqualification is up.


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    #15
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,362 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    STEINBERG wrote: »
    If the licence expires during the penalty point disqualification period then the penalty points basically get put on hold until you renew your licence.
    What happens in this case is the licence is printed but held at the NDLS until the disqualification is up.

    Thanks for clarifying the situation regarding a court disqualification. I don't see the logic behind the procedure being different for a licence expiring during a penalty point disqualification - why not just let the 6 months run with or without a current licence and let the person renew when the disqualification has finished if the licence expired in the interim?


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    #16
    BreadnBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭BreadnBuddha


    In the case of a disqualification, the license should be surrendered to the court clerk. If it expires during the period of disqualification, you must wait until the period of disqualification ends to apply for a renewal/replacement. Whether the license has expired or is still valid, the surrendered license will be returned to you at this time. If still valid, you have it endorsed and if not, you apply for the renewal and also have this one endorsed.

    The endorsement is a secondary but important matter. The clock starts ticking on this when it is recorded on the license, beginning not until the disqualification period has passed. The onus is on you tondeclare the endorsement. If it is not recorded, you are reaponsible for prolonging the effect this has and delaying the restoration of a 'clean' license.

    So, if for example the endorsement is for 3 years and the license expires after 1 year and you decide not to renew the license, for example in the case where you cannot afford insurance and remain off the road, the clock stops until you eventually renew the license. At this time, the renewed license must also be endorsed, carrying the remaining 2 years.

    Penalty points are a completely separate matter to the disqualification and endorsement.


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    #17
    Karen23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭Karen23


    BreadnBuddha wrote: »
    In the case of a disqualification, the license should be surrendered to the court clerk. If it expires during the period of disqualification, you must wait until the period of disqualification ends to apply for a renewal/replacement. Whether the license has expired or is still valid, the surrendered license will be returned to you at this time. If still valid, you have it endorsed and if not, you apply for the renewal and also have this one endorsed.

    The endorsement is a secondary but important matter. The clock starts ticking on this when it is recorded on the license, beginning not until the disqualification period has passed. The onus is on you tondeclare the endorsement. If it is not recorded, you are reaponsible for prolonging the effect this has and delaying the restoration of a 'clean' license.

    So, if for example the endorsement is for 3 years and the license expires after 1 year and you decide not to renew the license, for example in the case where you cannot afford insurance and remain off the road, the clock stops until you eventually renew the license. At this time, the renewed license must also be endorsed, carrying the remaining 2 years.

    Penalty points are a completely separate matter to the disqualification and endorsement.

    Thanks, appreciate the info :)


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    #18
    STEINBERG
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭STEINBERG


    coylemj wrote: »
    Thanks for clarifying the situation regarding a court disqualification. I don't see the logic behind the procedure being different for a licence expiring during a penalty point disqualification - why not just let the 6 months run with or without a current licence and let the person renew when the disqualification has finished if the licence expired in the interim?

    I agree it is a ridiculous situation with no logic behind it at all. But with the RSA and the NDLS it is all about the money.


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    #19
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    STEINBERG wrote: »
    I agree it is a ridiculous situation with no logic behind it at all. But with the RSA and the NDLS it is all about the money.
    BreadnBuddha's post actually explains it well and the logic behind it.

    The ban is a prohibition on holding a licence, and effectively a prohibition on driving. So the term of the ban is the same regardless of whether you've never held a licence or your licence has expired or whatever.

    An endorsement is a stamp on your licence which basically notes that you have just started driving again after serving a ban and serves as a note for Gardai and insurance companies when they see your licence.
    The endorsement only kicks in while you have a valid licence - if someone's licence was expired or they didn't have one, then they can't drive anyway, so the endorsement would be pointless.

    It also serves as a reminder to the person to keep their nose clean, so it makes sense that you don't get the endorsement until you actually start driving again, be that immediately after your ban or ten years after.


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    #20
    STEINBERG
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭STEINBERG


    seamus wrote: »
    BreadnBuddha's post actually explains it well and the logic behind it.

    The ban is a prohibition on holding a licence, and effectively a prohibition on driving. So the term of the ban is the same regardless of whether you've never held a licence or your licence has expired or whatever.

    An endorsement is a stamp on your licence which basically notes that you have just started driving again after serving a ban and serves as a note for Gardai and insurance companies when they see your licence.
    The endorsement only kicks in while you have a valid licence - if someone's licence was expired or they didn't have one, then they can't drive anyway, so the endorsement would be pointless.

    It also serves as a reminder to the person to keep their nose clean, so it makes sense that you don't get the endorsement until you actually start driving again, be that immediately after your ban or ten years after.

    I understand what you are saying but we were speaking directly about penalty point disqualifications not endorsements.

    Endorsements have cased being put on licences since 2013, they do not stamp the new licence at all.


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    #21
    BreadnBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭BreadnBuddha


    STEINBERG wrote: »
    I understand what you are saying but we were speaking directly about penalty point disqualifications not endorsements.

    Endorsements have cased being put on licences since 2013, they do not stamp the new licence at all.

    The OP asked the questions in relation to a 3 year disqualification, not a 6 month penalty point related disqualification period.

    I answered in relation the OP's question, not the somewhat related but totally misleading discussion you were having.

    In relation to the stamp, you're correct. It was a stamp, now it's a 'virtual stamp', which must be added to the license record. The principal remains the same of course, no valid license, no endorsement in effect.

    If you have a valid license on the expiry of your disqualification, the onus is still on you to ensure that the endorsement is recorded on your license (record). If it's not, that doesn't reduce the period remaining.


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    #22
    STEINBERG
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭STEINBERG


    BreadnBuddha wrote: »

    In relation to the stamp, you're correct. It was a stamp, now it's a 'virtual stamp', which must be added to the license record. The principal remains the same of course, no valid license, no endorsement in effect.

    (record). If it's not, that doesn't reduce the period remaining.

    That is incorrect, with regards a disqualification you do not need to have a valid license for the endorsement to take affect unless it is a penalty point disqualification.

    If a driver receives a 2 year disqualification regardless of if his/her license is valid or not, they are still disqualified for 2 years. they will need to surrender their license to the NDLS.

    If the license they surrendered expires during the 2 year disqualification then they simply apply for a renewal providing they still hold their entitlements.

    If the license is still a valid license then it is simply posted back to the driver.


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    #23
    BreadnBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭BreadnBuddha


    STEINBERG wrote: »
    That is incorrect, with regards a disqualification you do not need to have a valid license for the endorsement to take affect unless it is a penalty point disqualification.

    If a driver receives a 2 year disqualification regardless of if his/her license is valid or not, they are still disqualified for 2 years. they will need to surrender their license to the NDLS.

    If the license they surrendered expires during the 2 year disqualification then they simply apply for a renewal providing they still hold their entitlements.

    If the license is still a valid license then it is simply posted back to the driver.

    Do you want to re-read my post and try to explain that again? What part of my previous reply is 'wrong'?


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    #24
    STEINBERG
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭STEINBERG


    BreadnBuddha wrote: »
    The principal remains the same of course, no valid license, no endorsement in effect.
    That part.


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    #25
    BreadnBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭BreadnBuddha


    STEINBERG wrote: »
    That part.

    In fact, I'm correct and you are misundertanding the difference between a disqualification and the subsequent endorsement.

    You can be disqualified from driving even if you don't hold a valid license, however, an endorsement which follows the ban requires a valid license. Without a valid license, the endorsement 'waits', so you can't avoid carrying it by simply not renewing an expired license.


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    #26
    TheShow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭TheShow


    ndls wont renew it when disqualified because by law the licence has been revoked. the period of disqualification has to be passed. going from personal experience as i had a ban and from i assumed it goes from the date of the conviction, had to wait another 2 weeks before the ndls would process my application.

    but best to check with them to make sure.


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    #27
    TheShow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭TheShow


    how long does an endorsement last for?


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    #28
    Karen23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭Karen23


    I'm now more confused than ever ha ha


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    #29
    STEINBERG
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭STEINBERG


    Karen23 wrote: »
    I'm now more confused than ever ha ha

    To go back to your original post.

    The way it works is a full driving license has to be renewed withing 10 years of its expiry date or a driver will have to start form scratch again. It is 5 years for a learner permit.

    So for example if a full license expired on the 01/01/2015 then the driver has until the 01/01/2025 to renew that license. If you do not then you lose your entitlements and have to sit the theory test again.

    If you are disqualified then you need to surrender your license to the NDLS. If your license expires while you are disqualified then you can simply renew it once the disqualification is up (providing the license has not been expired for more than 10 years).

    If your license is still valid, once the disqualification is up you get your license posted back out to you.


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    #30
    Karen23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,871 ✭✭✭Karen23


    STEINBERG wrote: »
    To go back to your original post.

    The way it works is a full driving license has to be renewed withing 10 years of its expiry date or a driver will have to start form scratch again. It is 5 years for a learner permit.

    So for example if a full license expired on the 01/01/2015 then the driver has until the 01/01/2025 to renew that license. If you do not then you lose your entitlements and have to sit the theory test again.

    If you are disqualified then you need to surrender your license to the NDLS. If your license expires while you are disqualified then you can simply renew it once the disqualification is up (providing the license has not been expired for more than 10 years).

    If your license is still valid, once the disqualification is up you get your license posted back out to you.


    Ok, so if a driver gets a 3 year ban in 2013 and surrenders the licence but the licence expired in 2015 meaning he cannot renew it , there is no further disqualification to be served if the driver applies for a licence when the ban is fully served in 2016 ?


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    #31
    BreadnBuddha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭BreadnBuddha


    Karen23 wrote: »
    Ok, so if a driver gets a 3 year ban in 2013 and surrenders the licence but the licence expired in 2015 meaning he cannot renew it , there is no further disqualification to be served if the driver applies for a licence when the ban is fully served in 2016 ?

    100% correct.

    Then, to save any further hassle, check to ensure the endorsement is correctly recorded on the license/drivers file with NDLS when the new license is issued. Don't take for granted that it's done.


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