Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Should a doctor tell someone they have terminal cancer?

Options
2

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,208 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I have a dear friend told their life is over within 6 months. This person and their family are now preparing for this in their own way. This friend is very disturbed about it. Of course they are. This person was told without being asked whether they wanted to know.

    Is it right for anyone to tell someone they will be dead in such a time frame?

    Non terminal, treatable cancer I understand. However is it not the case that this psychologically harms the victim far more?

    Would it not be better to simply not tell them?

    Or do you believe - "their body, right to know", which I understand too.

    So the docutor should ask do you or do you not want to know if your going to be dead in 6 months? Kind of gives it away


  • Options
    #33
    blade1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,212 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Sorry to hear that Blade1, but I hope you don't mind if I ask if your father was in pain, or what made him speak to the medical people on the 22nd?

    When I heard the Lemmy story I was wondering how someone coul dhave cancer so serious and only be seeing a doctor 2 days before it was serious enough to kill them.

    My own aunt died from leukemia 3 weeks after she was diagnosed, and I thought that was incredibly quick for disease acceleration.

    If only you knew my father...
    Just another story to give u an idea pigheaded,stubborn or whatever you'd like to call he was..

    About 10 years previously he suffered a heart attack while no one else was at home.
    He called an ambulance and was waiting in the drive way for it to arrive
    While waiting an old friend of his spotted him as he was walking past.
    He proceeded to ask my father how things were and how was all the family etc.
    Flying, not a bother answered my father.
    They chatted for about 10 minutes and my father never let on anything.

    So to answer your question NIMAN,he probably knew something was not right with a while but would never let on.


  • Options
    #34
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    Of course they should, then the informed can make plans ahead, sort out legalities, and so forth, and make do for the future of those they leave behind.

    It's good to be set to make closure for the time given. Can't do that if it just suddenly happens, and suddenly everything's in turmoil for your family and what not.


  • Options
    #35
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,587 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Hell yes they should be told. It's insane to suggest they shouldn't.

    A friend of mine discovered she had terminal cancer and was given 6 months. She quit her job, informed her insurance company so the mortgage could be cleared and put together a bucket list. She lived for 18 months but she lived every single day of her life to he fullest. An inspiration to those left behind.


  • Options
    #36
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,677 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    NIMAN wrote: »
    When I heard the Lemmy story I was wondering how someone coul dhave cancer so serious and only be seeing a doctor 2 days before it was serious enough to kill them.

    .

    Well he was riddled with other health problems. He also probably kept alot of things hidden or ignored them.
    That being said he had been seeing doctors on and off for the last year or two. As his manager said the surprise is the cancer had not been picked up earlier with all the tests he had done in the past while.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,134 ✭✭✭screamer


    I've just had one of my close relatives diagnosed and we know they have little time left so it's a very raw question for me.
    I think not telling someone might be well intentioned but if you've ever known anyone to die with cancer you'll know there is no sticking your head in the sand. Pallitative care needs to be organised and if someone is younger and has children I think it's necessary to tell them. Also in Ireland where death is such a taboo subject many people have no wills made and telling them gives them a chance to get their stuff in order too. I really believe that as an adult the doctors should almost have an obligation to tell you. It's worse when they tell the family and no one can talk about it because the person is kept in the dark. I know no one wants to be told that news but let's face it we're all adults and we know death is a certainty so I don't understand the notion of not telling someone how long they may have left in these circumstances.

    From a personal viewpoint having lost numerous family to cancer I have to say that the longer they survive the harder it is. It might be tough to lose someone suddenly few days or weeks after a diagnosis but it's harder watching them waste away on a morphine pump having battled cancer for months and months. Cancer is a thief of everything including good memories of our loved ones in happy and healthy times.


  • Options
    #38
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    I think its incredibly unethical not to tell them. At least then the death maybe they can save up for a funeral, move closer to other relatives and make job arrangements, I don't know, anyway I just feel like a family would prefer not have the death of a loved one sprung on them despite the 6 months being a long sad one. But in that time you can spend extra quality time with each other before your final goodbye and do things you've always wanted to do.

    Both are awful situations I mean you're dying, its going to be tragic either way. I just think the benefits of telling them early greatly outweigh the negatives


  • Options
    #39
    Conor Bourke
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 17,424 ✭✭✭✭Conor Bourke


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    Utter bilge. A group of people being entertained in interference in the patient Doctor relationship? Time being spent "managing" their obstructin? Real world answer is that if you know any doctors with holding information from a patient on such a basis is that you report them to the medical council.

    Where did I say that I know doctors who withhold information? They absolutely don't, they still tell the patient the truth but in a respectful, sensitive and tactful way in order to minimise distress and trauma to both patient and family. That is a real world, regular occurrence in hospitals, hospices and homes throughout the country.

    Would you prefer that that time wasn't spent, that there was a return to the days when doctors dumped bad news on people with all the sensitivity of a brick to the face?


  • Options
    #40
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    I was under the impression it's a legal obligation so the point is kind of Moot. And part of the Hippocratic oath. As not telling the findings would lead to causing harm.


  • Options
    #41
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    Moot point op


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Conor Bourke
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 17,424 ✭✭✭✭Conor Bourke


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I was under the impression it's a legal obligation so the point is kind of mute. And part of the Hippocratic oath. As not telling the findings would lead to causing harm.

    Unless the patient clearly states that their preference is that they would prefer not to know, and they are competent to make that decision.


  • Options
    #43
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Loop Zoop wrote: »
    Where did I say that I know doctors who withhold information? They absolutely don't, they still tell the patient the truth but in a respectful, sensitive and tactful way in order to minimise distress and trauma to both patient and family. That is a real world, regular occurrence in hospitals, hospices and homes throughout the country.

    Would you prefer that that time wasn't spent, that there was a return to the days when doctors dumped bad news on people with all the sensitivity of a brick to the face?
    Where did I say that you said it? You can see the word "if"? Good man. Your claim that time be spent managing relatives attempting to interfere in the Doctor patient relationship is bilge. A simple fcuk off suffices for these people. The patient has a right to know first and a right to know exactly what their situation is before anyone.
    /end thread.


  • Options
    #44
    Conor Bourke
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 17,424 ✭✭✭✭Conor Bourke


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    Where did I say that you said it? You can see the word "if"? Good man. Your claim that time be spent managing relatives attempting to interfere in the Doctor patient relationship is bilge. A simple fcuk off suffices for these people. The patient has a right to know first and a right to know exactly what their situation is before anyone.
    /end thread.

    Lol, I defer to your extensive medical knowledge and experience. You clearly know exactly what you're talking about :rolleyes:

    ETA: I fundamentally agree with you regarding the part in bold, it's just obvious that you haven't a clue about the realities of what constitutes communication between doctors/nurses and patients/families or the importance of therapeutic relationships in end of life care.


  • Options
    #45
    Pretzill
    Registered Users Posts: 4,684 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    As far as I know the doctors have to inform the patient of their prognosis -
    But I am in two minds whether putting a time limit on it is a good thing - My mum was given 3 months and it was terribly upsetting for us but mostly for her - to have this limit in place - not much time to fulfil her bucket list - but most of all it robbed her of that tiny shred of hope - She refused to accept the prognosis and tried to take each day as it came - she died a week short of the three months but I often wonder if in her head that deadline overshadowed everything -


  • Options
    #46
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Jesus this is a cranky start to the new year...

    ---- Opens Can..


  • Options
    #47
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Pretzill wrote: »
    As far as I know the doctors have to inform the patient of their prognosis -
    But I am in two minds whether putting a time limit on it is a good thing - My mum was given 3 months and it was terribly upsetting for us but mostly for her - to have this limit in place - not much time to fulfil her bucket list - but most of all it robbed her of that tiny shred of hope - She refused to accept the prognosis and tried to take each day as it came - she died a week short of the three months but I often wonder if in her head that deadline overshadowed everything -

    I thought that too , my mother was told she was terminally ill earlier this year.
    She's quite content and enjoys her time now and has most of her affairs in order. A palliative team , her GP , a consultant and chemist are all involved .

    She has been given a broad timescale and has been told her care now is all pain relief.

    She has accepted her prognosis and is living her life as best she can.


  • Options
    #48
    Barry Badrinath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    I think it's better to be told. It gives the patient and family a sense of urgency to square everything away, legal and personal stuff.

    If it was me, Id also be getting a second opinion first of all.


  • Options
    #49
    Whosthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Whosthis


    I'd definitely prefer to hear it from a doctor, getting that kind of news from a bus driver would be a bit strange.


  • Options
    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I have a dear friend told their life is over within 6 months. This person and their family are now preparing for this in their own way. This friend is very disturbed about it. Of course they are. This person was told without being asked whether they wanted to know.

    Is it right for anyone to tell someone they will be dead in such a time frame?

    Non terminal, treatable cancer I understand. However is it not the case that this psychologically harms the victim far more?

    Would it not be better to simply not tell them?

    Or do you believe - "their body, right to know", which I understand too.

    Just over a year ago, a very dear friend got the same news. As it happens, she only got 2 months. But, she got to tell her family what kind of funeral she wanted, where to have the afters, what outfit to bury her in, but most of all, got to spend very precious time with her Husband, children and grandchildren. I think all this kept her going until her final week when she became too unwell to even talk.


  • Options
    #51
    Pretzill
    Registered Users Posts: 4,684 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    corner of hells wrote: »
    I thought that too , my mother was told she was terminally ill earlier this year.
    She's quite content and enjoys her time now and has most of her affairs in order. A palliative team , her GP , a consultant and chemist are all involved .

    She has been given a broad timescale and has been told her care now is all pain relief.

    She has accepted her prognosis and is living her life as best she can.

    The palliative care team are excellent people. But in truth the whole thing is f*cking crap - I often thought (because my Da was terminal too so that's probably coloured my opinion) that if I had the same prognosis - I wouldn't be as brave as either were. One thing I would say to anyone with a loved one going through this enjoy each precious minute in their company, chat, laugh, watch great movies together and cherish the time. Sorry to hear your mum is going through this.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    challengemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 16,931 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    It's a bit of a ludicrous suggestion tbh. What would happen is doctor respects patients wishes, then the patient dies suddenly and nobody knows why. Autopsy reveals terminal illness, turns out the doctor knew and said nothing - family sues for malpractice. Repeat ad nauseam.
    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    And part of the Hippocratic oath.

    Which no doctor in Ireland takes.


  • Options
    #53
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    challengemaster wrote: »
    It's a bit of a ludicrous suggestion tbh. What would happen is doctor respects patients wishes, then the patient dies suddenly and nobody knows why. Autopsy reveals terminal illness, turns out the doctor knew and said nothing - family sues for malpractice. Repeat ad nauseam.



    Which no doctor in Ireland takes.

    Link ?


  • Options
    #54
    Whosthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Whosthis


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Link ?

    http://www.google.ie


  • Options
    #55
    Conor Bourke
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 17,424 ✭✭✭✭Conor Bourke


    challengemaster wrote: »
    It's a bit of a ludicrous suggestion tbh. What would happen is doctor respects patients wishes, then the patient dies suddenly and nobody knows why. Autopsy reveals terminal illness, turns out the doctor knew and said nothing - family sues for malpractice. Repeat ad nauseam

    If the doctor has informed the patient that they're terminally ill and the patient chooses not to be informed about their prognosis and/or declines treatment, the doctor can't force them to do anything and a post mortem wouldn't take place because the patients medical records would show that they had an incurable illness. It's not the doctors fault if the patient doesn't tell their family they're sick, there would be no legal case whatsoever.

    The family could only sue the doctor i, after the patients death it came to light that the doctor discovered that the patient had a terminal illness but the patient was never informed at all or given any choices.


  • Options
    #56
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Whosthis wrote: »
    http://www.google.ie

    Is it not up to the person stating facts to back them up google does not count.


  • Options
    #57
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Loop Zoop wrote: »
    Lol, I defer to your extensive medical knowledge and experience. You clearly know exactly what you're talking about :rolleyes:

    ETA: I fundamentally agree with you regarding the part in bold, it's just obvious that you haven't a clue about the realities of what constitutes communication between doctors/nurses and patients/families or the importance of therapeutic relationships in end of life care.

    You sound like someone who did a course. I've repeatedly pointed to you that the first responsibility and duty of a doctor is to their patient. Your attempts to insinuate a role for some interfering idiot of a loved one into that is bizarre and nonsensical. Any doctor breaching their duty to the patient to defer to the notions of a loved one not to tell than should be reported to the medical council. As already said to you.


  • Options
    #58
    Whosthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Whosthis


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Is it not up to the person stating facts to back them up google does not count.

    Link?


  • Options
    #59
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Whosthis wrote: »
    Link?

    To what ??? How online debates work ?

    Baby Jesus was actually called Kevin you now have to take that as fact...


  • Options
    #60
    Zimmey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 96 ✭✭Zimmey


    Yes, the patient needs to know. In case there is anything they want to do and to make sure they say all their goodbyes. And to allow them to get their affairs in order. If they don't know it''s terminal, some of this will not be achieved.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    keeponhurling
    Registered Users Posts: 5,129 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    In my head, this is how the conversation goes

    Doctor: "We've decided you don't need to continue with the chemo treatment anymore, or make any more visits to the hospital.
    Just staying at home should be grand"

    Patient: "I see, so does that mean the treatment worked ? I'm cured?"

    Doc:"Eh...yeah, sure"

    Patient:"Great! So how soon you think I'll be ok to go back to work?"

    Doc:"Eh, probably best not to rush back, really"

    Patient:"Ok well thanks for all your help, Doctor. So this is goodbye, I'll probably not see you again until my annual checkup next year"

    Doc:"Eh, yeah sure. By the way, I've written you a prescription for a 6 month supply of morphine. Eh, as a precaution,not that you'll need it of course, but just in case of, eh, heartburn or something"

    Patient:"Thanks doc, I knew you were the right man to help me beat this disease.
    Next time I bump into you down the town, the drinks are on me"

    Doc:"Thanks. But sure lets keep it low-key, no need to go signing my praises from the rooftops, just doing my job"

    Patient skips out of the office to give the news to his family and friends, possibly announcing it on Facebook


Advertisement