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Nature in the News

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Where is that? Vast areas of old heather not really of use for Grouse.
    Donegal mountains, Wicklow mountains, Kerry, Connemara etc..
    Mature heather also grows new shoots.
    Rotational burned heather is not a natural habitat, it is a shooting range.
    Eradicating predators such as BOP is hardly to be recommended in this context of providing habitat for same!
    Different subspecies from Mongolia.
    Yes, more badass.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    recedite wrote: »
    Donegal mountains, Wicklow mountains, Kerry, Connemara etc..

    Dont forget Dublin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Capercaillie


    recedite wrote: »
    Donegal mountains, Wicklow mountains, Kerry, Connemara etc..
    Mature heather also grows new shoots.
    Rotational burned heather is not a natural habitat, it is a shooting range.
    Eradicating predators such as BOP is hardly to be recommended in this context of providing habitat for same!


    Yes, more badass.

    The only areas of decent habitat for Red Grouse in Ireland are in the Wicklow mountains national park and the Slieve Blooms. Habitat elsewhere is suboptimal. Red Grouse (especially chicks) will not get sufficient food (insects/plant material) from old heather.

    As for the Donegal Mountains if the habitat was good there would be adequate Grouse for the Eagles. There isn't and the eagles are starving as a result.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    Where is that? Vast areas of old heather not really of use for Grouse.
    Grouse like a mosaic of heather (old heather for nesting, young heather for feeding). On Scottish estates they have rotational burning which gives optimal habitat coupled with intensive predator control. We don't have that management anywhere (on an intensive scale).

    That regime may favour Grouse, but not much else.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Capercaillie


    Jayzesake wrote: »
    That regime may favour Grouse, but not much else.

    It has serious flaws mainly Hen Harrier/Golden Eagle persecution, but breeding waders are also at good densities.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    It has serious flaws mainly Hen Harrier/Golden Eagle persecution, but breeding waders are also a good densities.

    Like Irish uplands, Scottish estates are biological deserts in comparison with what was once there (i.e. old-growth forest), and what there will be again in some areas thanks to the likes of Trees for Life.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sOtNSsBitU


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,898 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    The only areas of decent habitat for Red Grouse in Ireland are in the Wicklow mountains national park and the Slieve Blooms. Habitat elsewhere is suboptimal. Red Grouse (especially chicks) will not get sufficient food (insects/plant material) from old heather.

    As for the Donegal Mountains if the habitat was good there would be adequate Grouse for the Eagles. There isn't and the eagles are starving as a result.

    I would agree with that. Very little decent heather cover left in the West due to overgrazing, industrial forestry, activities of Bord na Mona etc. Red Grouse are still present in some areas, but at very low densities compared to the likes of the Wicklow Mtns.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    http://www.birdwatchireland.ie/Default.aspx?tabid=136
    A good link to main causes of declines of grouse. Hunting not one of them.
    I find this BWI article annoying because it blames forests for numerous problems including "loss of habitat" and "harbouring predators".
    On burning, it can't make up its mind whether this is good or bad. "Blanket burning" seems to be seen as bad and "rotational burning" good. But the fact is, even if you tried, you could not set fire to all the heather on a mountain simultaneously and in one go.
    No mention at all of the people wandering around with guns who are too willing to shoot at anything that moves.

    In this video Ray Mears visits and Old Caledonian type Scottish forest. The capercaille is strutting around in heather at the edge of a forest.
    That is actually the richest type of habitat. Grassy clearings inside forests are rich in wildlife in general, and the edges of forests are great places for hares. If we had more of this habitat in Donegal, the eagles would be doing a lot better.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 3,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭OpenYourEyes


    recedite wrote: »
    I find this BWI article annoying because it blames forests for numerous problems including "loss of habitat" and "harbouring predators".
    On burning, it can't make up its mind whether this is good or bad. "Blanket burning" seems to be seen as bad and "rotational burning" good. But the fact is, even if you tried, you could not set fire to all the heather on a mountain simultaneously and in one go.
    No mention at all of the people wandering around with guns who are too willing to shoot at anything that moves.

    In this video Ray Mears visits and Old Caledonian type Scottish forest. The capercaille is strutting around in heather at the edge of a forest.
    That is actually the richest type of habitat. Grassy clearings inside forests are rich in wildlife in general, and the edges of forests are great places for hares. If we had more of this habitat in Donegal, the eagles would be doing a lot better.



    Red Grouse need open heather habitats - forestry is the complete opposite of that. It's also a sheltered place for foxes, badgers, crows etc to hang out and makes it easy for them to raid any neighbouring habitat that is still suitable for grouse.

    It can make up its mind about burning, you just need to do more reading. Burning for agricultural purposes involves burning full mountainsides and large parts of the landscape in general, obviously removing all vegetation and setting it all back to day zero. The burning required for grouse habitat involves a technique called 'muirburn' where strips of vegetation are burned on a 7 year rotation, so you have small patches of old and new heather and every age in between all in close quarters, so grouse and their chicks have access to seed and invertebrate food throughout the year.

    Without gun clubs there would be even less red grouse in Ireland than there are now. The future looks somewhat ok for grouse here because of the interest shown and work being done by gun clubs. There is not one conservationists or scientist working on red grouse in Ireland that thinks gun clubs are the problem - its the habitat!

    Just for clarification, the plantation forestry we have across Ireland is completely different to Caledonian Pine Forest. Also, and I'm sure you know this but its worth stating for clarity, red grouse and capercaillie have very different habitat requirements. And lastly, while biodiversity-rich forest like that would improve the situation in part, don't forget that it also provides a lot of shelter for prey like Hares, so while it might increase the number of Hares tenfold, a large proportion of those Hares might not be 'available' to Golden Eagles. That type of habitat would be great to see in Ireland, but ideally it would replace the commercial forestry plantations we already have rather than replace the open upland habitat that we should be managing better for species like Red Grouse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    That type of habitat would be great to see in Ireland, but ideally it would replace the commercial forestry plantations we already have rather than replace the open upland habitat that we should be managing better for species like Red Grouse.

    Another way of looking at this is that both - conifer plantations and sheep-bared hills - are artificial land uses that offer little to native wildlife.

    Native woodland (our principal original natural habitat) should therefore be allowed to greatly expand in area at the expense of both, while obviously retaining plenty of each too: plantations for necessary timber production, and better-managed open upland areas for those few species which benefit from such landscapes.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    recedite wrote: »
    Where did you get that figure from? Certainly not in the Wicklow mountains. There are loads of deer and sheep, but hardly any hares. The habitat has not changed in 20 years.
    Maybe we need bigger, and more badass eagles. The golden eagles in Mongolia will take deer and foxes :pac:

    NPWS and Quercus Report, N. Reid et al.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Capercaillie


    recedite wrote: »
    In this video Ray Mears visits and Old Caledonian type Scottish forest. The capercaille is strutting around in heather at the edge of a forest.
    That is actually the richest type of habitat. Grassy clearings inside forests are rich in wildlife in general, and the edges of forests are great places for hares. If we had more of this habitat in Donegal, the eagles would be doing a lot better.


    The Caledonian forests are in a bad way as well. The Capercaillie is heading towards extinction in Scotland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,324 ✭✭✭keps




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,324 ✭✭✭keps




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale



    Where exactly does the corncrake survive now in Ireland? North Donegal? North Mayo? The Shannon Callows?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Capercaillie


    feargale wrote: »
    Where exactly does the corncrake survive now in Ireland? North Donegal? North Mayo? The Shannon Callows?

    Extinct Moy valley, Fermanagh, Shannon Callows.
    Present West Connaught, North Donegal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 887 ✭✭✭Keplar240B


    Racing extinction ( 2015)

    New Documentary

    Oscar-winning director Louie Psihoyos assembles a team of artists and activists on an undercover operation to expose the hidden world of endangered species and the race to protect them against mass extinction. Spanning the globe to infiltrate the world’s most dangerous black markets and using high tech tactics to document the link between carbon emissions and species extinction, Racing Extinction reveals stunning, never-before seen images that truly change the way we see the world.( 2015)



    . very good.

    http://www.racingextinction.com

    #StartWith1Thing

    CWSXNZNUAAAVw0X.jpg:large


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    Keplar240B wrote: »
    Racing extinction ( 2015)

    New Documentary

    Oscar-winning director Louie Psihoyos assembles a team of artists and activists on an undercover operation to expose the hidden world of endangered species and the race to protect them against mass extinction. Spanning the globe to infiltrate the world’s most dangerous black markets and using high tech tactics to document the link between carbon emissions and species extinction, Racing Extinction reveals stunning, never-before seen images that truly change the way we see the world.( 2015)



    . very good.

    http://www.racingextinction.com

    #StartWith1Thing

    I watched Racing Extinction on this free (hopefully not too dodgy) movies website:

    Mod Edit: Link removed - can't post links like that on boards.....

    It's quite full-on, but should be mandatory viewing for every member of the human race.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    EU admits failing its own targets for protecting nature

    The mid-term review of the EU’s Biodiversity Strategy to 2020 has today been published by the European Commission – and it shows only limited progress has been made on many of the key targets set at the start of this decade, with a complete failure to address unsustainable agriculture.

    The review spells out that the European Union is failing many of its own targets for reversing the decline in biodiversity, which keeps many plants and animals under threat of extinction.

    Also of concern is the number of bird species with a 'non-secure' status. Only just more than half (52%) of those assessed can be classified as having a 'secure' population status.

    There are also failings in targets to restore ecosystems, with only one of the EU’s 28 member countries (Finland) even presenting a basic restoration plan, never mind implementing one.


    http://www.birdlife.org/europe-and-central-asia/news/eu-admits-failing-its-own-targets-protecting-nature


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    Theirs no point now trying to protect species I don't think. They're gone. Only thing that'll put manners on humans is a big dirty war/non discriminate natural Disease that wipes out a billion or so.

    Japanese back out whaling again.:rolleyes:

    Best thing to do now is go and get genetic samples from whats left out there, we're getting good at IVF so we could bring them back when money and greed don't rule.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    Theirs no point now trying to protect species I don't think. They're gone.

    That's a cop-out. The vast majority are not gone, and still hang in the balance.
    Only thing that'll put manners on humans is a big dirty war/non discriminate natural Disease that wipes out a billion or so.

    There have always been 'big dirty wars and diseases' and it hasn't put manners on anyone. In fact, ecological destruction often accelerates in wars, especially modern ones.

    Japanese back out whaling again.:rolleyes: Best thing to do now is go and get genetic samples from whats left out there, we're getting good at IVF so we could bring them back when money and greed don't rule.

    There's no point in bringing back species if the ecosystems they lived in, or something akin to them, have gone. Protecting ecosystems and all of their components is where it's at, and millions of people all over the world are doing just that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Capercaillie


    hedge cutting season extended:(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    hedge cutting season extended:(

    Here's the Irish Wildlife Trust statement on this:
    In response to the news this morning that Minister Heather Humphreys is to extend the season for burning and hedge cutting into the bird breeding season, we have just issued this Press Release:

    Press Release: Nature and landscape loses out again as Minister Heather Humpreys announces extension of burning and hedge-cutting season. The Irish Wildlife Trust (IWT) is disappointed but not surprised at the announcement today that Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Heather Humphreys TD, has extended the season into which land owners can burn vegetation or cut hedges. Once again we note that the greater good of protecting nature and our landscape will take a hit in favour of appeasing the large farming organisations. The reality is that these measures will change nothing on the ground except perhaps to legitimise further degradation of the countryside – something which has been on-going for some time now. Based on no scientific evidence, and only the demands of vocal lobby groups, burning of vegetation will be allowed through the month of March when many birds and other animals are nesting.


    IWT Campaigns Officer Pádraic Fogarty says “time and again we see the grip that vested interests have on decision making that affects the wider good. Since coming to office Minister Humphreys has shown no interest or knowledge of the natural environment which is a part of her brief. The sad thing is that much of the damage has already been done and this decision will simple perpetuate the downward trajectory of nature and landscape in Ireland. It makes a mockery of claims that Ireland is a so-called ‘world leader’ in sustainable food production.”


    (From the IWT facebook page.)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    Jayzesake wrote: »
    Here's the Irish Wildlife Trust statement on this:




    (From the IWT facebook page.)

    What group/farmer wants to mess at hedges in march when they could leave it a few weeks till the birdies are out?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    What group/farmer wants to mess at hedges in march when they could leave it a few weeks till the birdies are out?

    :confused: Hardly a few weeks. The birds wouldn't be "out" until Autumn and even then cutting wrecks berry and seed supplies.

    They need to get their work done before March.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,006 ✭✭✭_Tombstone_


    :confused: Hardly a few weeks. The birds wouldn't be "out" until Autumn and even then cutting wrecks berry and seed supplies.

    They need to get their work done before March.

    Sorry, don't mind me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 392 ✭✭Jayzesake


    hedge cutting season extended:(

    The IWT are asking all those who disagree with this decision to write an email in protest to the minister at heather.humphreys@oir.ie


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    There is an obvious solution to this issue; burning and hedgecutting are two completely different activities and should have different seasonal restrictions.
    No major hedgecutting should be allowed beyond March. Burning is more weather dependent and needs a more flexible timescale, but farmers should be encoraged to do it in September


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