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Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Note Post 7373

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Comments

  • #6002
    Your Airbag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,547 ✭✭✭Your Airbag


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    It wasn't me that said it, try to keep up.

    And your little list of the players who looked good under Van Gaal can easily be dissected, do you want me to go ahead and do it?

    Knock yourself out chief.


  • #6003
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »
    I find it hard to believe especially with modern sport and he has been at the top so long he knows his diet is important during the season.

    But then again, Plenty of people have drinking problems. Hopefully it's not true.
    Would be a terrible shame for his son.

    Hopefully it's a case of zero tolerance and he had wine or something with dinner and his blood alcohol was a little high but immaterial.


    I hope it is not true too.

    I said last night he is showing signs of burn out, some think that is not believable, but he has a lot of responsibility and took on more, personal expectations, a team that is not the best like it use to be, criticism from fans and media over his form, tries to do lots of other people's job on the field which actually makes his own game worse.
    Maybe it is all getting to him and he feels a bit helpless, which would be burn out, and if the alcohol rumour is true it is a symptom of it.
    Time off for him wouldn't be a bad thing if that is the case. He gets a lot of criticism but he is human and there is so much one can take, maybe he is finding life hard at the moment.
    People may say he is paid x amount but that doesn't help psychological issues that might be present.

    Before I came to my own conclusion I didn't know it was said in August that Rooney is approaching burn out.
    Daniel Taylor: it does appear that all the warnings came true and, approaching 30, he is suffering the sapping effects of what is known in football as burnout.


  • #6004
    bangkok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,638 ✭✭✭✭bangkok


    Your Airbag wrote: »
    Mate? Thats such a ridiculous question I can't tell if your serious or not.

    Myabe he signed him because ADM said he wanted to sign, maybe because ADM was a very good player, maybe because any team in the world would have wanted the player.

    Its not LVGs fault ADM decides he doesn't like the club/city and downs tools. He didn't look bothered.

    The robbery at his house was probably it for him, he wanted out and got out.

    Nothing LVG could do about any of that.

    he could have encouraged him more, let him play with more freedom. I don't think van gaal helped him.

    do you think what van Gaal is doing to Valdes at the minute is correct?


  • #6005
    Flint Fredstone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    bangkok wrote: »
    he could have encouraged him more, let him play with more freedom. I don't think van gaal helped him.

    do you think what van Gaal is doing to Valdes at the minute is correct?

    Depends on what Valdes is doing.


  • #6006
    Your Airbag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,547 ✭✭✭Your Airbag


    bangkok wrote: »
    he could have encouraged him more, let him play with more freedom. I don't think van gaal helped him.

    do you think what van Gaal is doing to Valdes at the minute is correct?

    Encouraged him to what? Like a city he doesn't like, make his wife and kids like a city they don't like. Not to get bothered by home invasions by criminals. ADM wanted himself and his family in Paris. There is nothing LVG or anyone else at the club could have done to stop it.



    Valdes is not needed, we have DDG (the best keeper in the world) and Romero. Valdes is actually know for being a dick too. Your clutching at straws. Do you want Valdes getting game time or something?


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  • #6007
    dr.kenneth noisewater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,839 ✭✭✭dr.kenneth noisewater


    Graham Hunter has a new podcast out today with Michael Carrick, haven't listened to it yet but could be interesting


  • #6008
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    Flint Fredstone wrote: »
    You've just summed up the counter argument to LVG being the problem.

    as one of the biggest critics of LVGs style, i have also said many times that we have multiple players that are not good enough to play for United. i have been one of the most critical people of Mata for months and also i have questions over several other players in the squad.

    the other side of this is that i have defended Rooney more than almost anybody on here, but my patience has run out with him after his performance last couple of games and IF these latest rumours are true, i think he should not only be stripped of the captaincy but also f*cked out of the club.


    HOWEVER, LVG needs to take responsibility for all of this, he decided to get rid of multiple players and left a heap of average players in the squad. he is the one that is picking Fellaini, he is the one that has Lingard and Mata in the same attack, he is the one who plays 2 uncreative players in midfield, he is the reason we are not scoring goals.

    he has also spent £320m and left us with a very poor squad.


  • #6009
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Valdes said himself that he's hard to get along with,mix that with LVG and there's only going to be one winner.
    It's like any employee and the boss situation,the boss usually wins out.


  • #6010
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,067 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Your Airbag wrote: »
    Smalling, Shcweinsteiger, Shaw, Darmain, Martial, Blind and Herrera have all looked good under LVG.

    The point was made that the list of players who have looked bad under Van Gaal is a lot longer than the list of those who looked good. In response, Your Airbag says that these players have looked good:

    Smalling - Indeed he has, strange what regular gametime does to a talented 26 year old but hey, lets give this one to Van Gaal.

    Schweinsteiger - Really? He has been solid but where is the Schweinsteiger we wanted to buy? Where is the player who imposed himself on games and dominated midfields? Instead we have the Van Gaal Bastian, sitting beside Carrick and playing safe football. What a success story!

    Shaw? - Oh yes, he's the lad that Van Gaal dropped for most of last season. Then he did a bunch of work on his own over the summer and started the season in fine form. Is that a success for Van Gaals management? If you like.

    Darmian? Oh dear, the poor lad looked good for about 2 games before everything turned to ****, even Van Gaal doesn't want to play him any more but injury means he has no choice. Hes a good player, but how come his form nosedived so badly after arriving at the club? I wonder why that might be...

    Martial? 3 goals. One goal in the last 16 games. He's really thriving under Van Gaal isn't he, really tearing it up.

    Blind? Looked good has he? You know we are talking about football and not fashion? Blind has looked exactly like what he is, a squad player.

    Herrerra? Now you are just taking the piss, Herrera probably would look good if Van Gaal wasn't the manager and he was actually allowed to play.

    Your response to the original point was to damn Van Gaal with faint praise, if the players you use to defend him include the likes of Darmian and Herrera then you know you are scraping the barrell.

    On the other hand... Van Persie, Rooney, Mata, Depay, Di Maria, Hernandez, Januzaj, Falcao, Wilson, Felliani, Evans, Rafael, all players who looked utter crap under Van Gaal. Then you have the Scheiderlins, the Valencias and Youngs, Jones and Lingards, the players who just look meh playing for our club, and the Nani's and Valdes who may as well not exist.

    Who is playing to their potential at this club? Who is excelling, who is improving their game and becoming better players game by game? Who has Louis Van Gaal made into a better player? Smalling, De Gea and at one point Shaw. Thats it, and thats an indictment of the manager.


  • #6011
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    as one of the biggest critics of LVGs style, i have also said many times that we have multiple players that are not good enough to play for United. i have been one of the most critical people of Mata for months and also i have questions over several other players in the squad.

    the other side of this is that i have defended Rooney more than almost anybody on here, but my patience has run out with him after his performance last couple of games and IF these latest rumours are true, i think he should not only be stripped of the captaincy but also f*cked out of the club.


    HOWEVER, LVG needs to take responsibility for all of this, he decided to get rid of multiple players and left a heap of average players in the squad. he is the one that is picking Fellaini, he is the one that has Lingard and Mata in the same attack, he is the one who plays 2 uncreative players in midfield, he is the reason we are not scoring goals.

    he has also spent £320m and left us with a very poor squad.
    Fellaini starts one game and is suddenly the problem.

    Strange considering he's been one of the better players on the pitch in 90% of the games he's played for United(under LVG).


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  • #6012
    Your Airbag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,547 ✭✭✭Your Airbag


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    as one of the biggest critics of LVGs style, i have also said many times that we have multiple players that are not good enough to play for United. i have been one of the most critical people of Mata for months and also i have questions over several other players in the squad.

    the other side of this is that i have defended Rooney more than almost anybody on here, but my patience has run out with him after his performance last couple of games and IF these latest rumours are true, i think he should not only be stripped of the captaincy but also f*cked out of the club.


    HOWEVER, LVG needs to take responsibility for all of this, he decided to get rid of multiple players and left a heap of average players in the squad. he is the one that is picking Fellaini, he is the one that has Lingard and Mata in the same attack, he is the one who plays 2 uncreative players in midfield, he is the reason we are not scoring goals.

    he has also spent £320m and left us with a very poor squad.

    Yet he has only 3 points off the (false) leaders, but only 1 behind Arsenal, and level with City (with their great squads) and still with the possibility of topping our UCL group.

    And people want him gone. Bizzare.


  • #6013
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,992 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    With the group we had, we should be qualified for CL group, with game to spare. Especially considering its maybe toughest game last

    EVENFLOW



  • #6014
    beno619
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭beno619


    M!Ck^ wrote: »
    Januzaj is on Loan..makes sense really more potential which we have enough off already. Get him games elsewhere.

    As for the rest...deadwood or inconsistent. Not good enough

    As homer pointed out earlier, would you rather have those players in the squad tomorrow night in a must win champions league game or the kids we have to pick ?


  • #6015
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    zerks wrote: »
    You missed my bit in brackets.

    I jumped the gun.
    I presumed you meant in his latter years.


  • #6016
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People need to accept that a season where 5 or 6 players who have never played for the club before being developed and thrown into the matchday squads is going to lead to some transition. LVG isn't building for right now and it's good to see that there is someone looking beyond his own reign which is something Fergie would constantly say he was doing but it showed to not actually be the case.

    I was unhappy at him this time last season as I didn't see the plan, I do now and I'm happy for it to continue to a certain degree as I see the scope for it improving now.


  • #6017
    Your Airbag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,547 ✭✭✭Your Airbag


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    The point was made that the list of players who have looked bad under Van Gaal is a lot longer than the list of those who looked good. In response, Your Airbag says that these players have looked good:
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Smalling - Indeed he has, strange what regular gametime does to a talented 26 year old but hey, lets give this one to Van Gaal.
    So you agree, thanks
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Schweinsteiger - Really? He has been solid but where is the Schweinsteiger we wanted to buy? Where is the player who imposed himself on games and dominated midfields? Instead we have the Van Gaal Bastian, sitting beside Carrick and playing safe football. What a success story!

    Voted player of the month, been solid and impressive, you want to ignore this, too bad, he has been very good most of his games. Your wrong.
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Shaw? - Oh yes, he's the lad that Van Gaal dropped for most of last season. Then he did a bunch of work on his own over the summer and started the season in fine form. Is that a success for Van Gaals management? If you like.

    So LVG dropped him and questioned his fitness to make the player up his game, and he came back a better player and was one of our best up until his injury, so you agree, thanks.
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Darmian? Oh dear, the poor lad looked good for about 2 games before everything turned to ****, even Van Gaal doesn't want to play him any more but injury means he has no choice. Hes a good player, but how come his form nosedived so badly after arriving at the club? I wonder why that might be...

    Darmain has been good, I didn't say every game but in the majority he's been good as he was Saturday.
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Martial? 3 goals. One goal in the last 16 games. He's really thriving under Van Gaal isn't he, really tearing it up.

    He has looked one of our best players, great on the ball, you want to ignore this and equate only goals with being a good player, ok go ahead with that simplistic view
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Blind? Looked good has he? You know we are talking about football and not fashion? Blind has looked exactly like what he is, a squad player.

    Lol, been really good a CB, see our defensive record, your talking ****e
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Herrerra? Now you are just taking the piss, Herrera probably would look good if Van Gaal wasn't the manager and he was actually allowed to play.

    SO your saying Herrera has been good when played?

    Thanks again. I said he looked good, game time is a different discussion

    Pretty much confirmation of what I said from you, thanks.


  • #6018
    The Moldy Gowl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same games as people.


  • #6019
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,067 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Liam O wrote: »
    People need to accept that a season where 5 or 6 players who have never played for the club before being developed and thrown into the matchday squads is going to lead to some transition. LVG isn't building for right now and it's good to see that there is someone looking beyond his own reign which is something Fergie would constantly say he was doing but it showed to not actually be the case.

    I was unhappy at him this time last season as I didn't see the plan, I do now and I'm happy for it to continue to a certain degree as I see the scope for it improving now.

    Come on, this isn't part of some masterplan for player development. The likes of Powell and Goss aren't in the squad because of either their future or ours, they are there because we have nobody else.


  • #6020
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,992 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Liam O wrote: »
    People need to accept that a season where 5 or 6 players who have never played for the club before being developed and thrown into the matchday squads is going to lead to some transition. LVG isn't building for right now and it's good to see that there is someone looking beyond his own reign which is something Fergie would constantly say he was doing but it showed to not actually be the case.

    I was unhappy at him this time last season as I didn't see the plan, I do now and I'm happy for it to continue to a certain degree as I see the scope for it improving now.

    Agree with this to a extent.

    Some people expect too much too soon. However, if we do get knocked out tomorrow night, in a pretty straight forward group, I think will be huge disappointment.

    In saying that, he still deserves till end of season

    But if we do end up without CL football, the position becomes a clear one.

    He will have to leave.

    But I'm happy to keep him for season, he deserves proper go. Not sure what positives can come from changing manager now.

    EVENFLOW



  • #6021
    Cantona's Collars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Liam O wrote: »
    People need to accept that a season where 5 or 6 players who have never played for the club before being developed and thrown into the matchday squads is going to lead to some transition. LVG isn't building for right now and it's good to see that there is someone looking beyond his own reign which is something Fergie would constantly say he was doing but it showed to not actually be the case.

    I was unhappy at him this time last season as I didn't see the plan, I do now and I'm happy for it to continue to a certain degree as I see the scope for it improving now.

    One of LVG's biggest boasts is that he leaves a decent squad for any manager replacing him,he's almost as proud of that achievement than he is of any trophies won.
    I'm sure Pep or whoever would rather take over a team containing the players we have now rather than what we had before LVG joined.


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  • #6022
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,067 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Your Airbag wrote: »

    Pretty much confirmation of what I said from you, thanks.

    You're welcome. At this time I should probably just leave you to your frantic defence of Moyes Van Gaal.


  • #6023
    ronjo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭ronjo


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    You're welcome. At this time I should probably just leave you to your frantic defence of Moyes Van Gaal.

    It was a truly awful rebuttal.


  • #6024
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,067 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    ronjo wrote: »
    It was a truly awful rebuttal.

    I would be interested in a balanced appraisal of the topic.

    Who has Van Gaal improved in his time as United manager? What players are undeniably better now than they were before playing under him? And who can he take the credit for improving?


  • #6025
    ronjo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭ronjo


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    I would be interested in a balanced appraisal of the topic.

    Who has Van Gaal improved in his time as United manager? What players are undeniably better now than they were before playing under him? And who can he take the credit for improving?

    As an outsider I would say Smalling and Shaw seem to be the obvious ones.


  • #6026
    Giggsy11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭Giggsy11


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    I would be interested in a balanced appraisal of the topic.

    Who has Van Gaal improved in his time as United manager? What players are undeniably better now than they were before playing under him? And who can he take the credit for improving?

    You are not giving credit to Van Gaal when player's performance are improved and without doubt you are blaming Van Gaal for player's poor performance.

    Shaw, Smalling, Blind are the obvious ones excluding squad players.


  • #6027
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,573 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    ronjo wrote: »
    As an outsider I would say Smalling and Shaw seem to be the obvious ones.

    Shaw was quite poor in his first season, and I don't know if his second season was better than what he was producing at Southampton, which led us to paying near 30million for him.

    Young would be an obvious candidate for improvement under LVG, performing better than he was under Fergie and Moyes for the most part. Smalling is realizing his potential imo.


  • #6028
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,067 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Giggsy11 wrote: »
    You are not giving credit to Van Gaal when player's performance are improved and without doubt you are blaming Van Gaal for player's poor performance.

    Shaw, Smalling, Blind are the obvious ones excluding squad players.

    I'm asking on an individual level who has improved as a player under Van Gaal. This is an important factor if the goal is to build a team for the future.


  • #6029
    Giggsy11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,521 ✭✭✭Giggsy11


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    I'm asking on an individual level who has improved as a player under Van Gaal. This is an important factor if the goal is to build a team for the future.

    There are few who have shown the improvements, sadly almost everyone is in defense.

    De Gea - Much better coming off the line than before.
    Smalling, Shaw, Blind.

    Can't say the same about any of our attackers though, they all looked very average.


  • #6030
    ronjo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,070 ✭✭✭ronjo


    Giggsy11 wrote: »
    You are not giving credit to Van Gaal when player's performance are improved and without doubt you are blaming Van Gaal for player's poor performance.

    Shaw, Smalling, Blind are the obvious ones excluding squad players.

    What though makes you think Blind has improved under Van Gaal?

    He was a Dutch international and Dutch player of the year the season before he joined Man Utd.


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  • #6031
    ericzeking
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭ericzeking


    I suppose it could be argued that Van Gaal has improved all of our defensive players (including midfield players) ability to play as a defensive unit, I'm not sure it's so easy to quantify that on an individual basis.

    He has also improved aspects of some players games, mainly in relation to defensive capabilities and responsibilities (see Mata for example).


This discussion has been closed.
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