Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Note Post 7373

RobertKK · 06-12-2015 02:42PM

In regards to Martial,he is a first team starter for the French national team, and they are one of the top teams in the world with so much talent.

That said I agree, he was not signed to be our most vital player up front for this season. Rooney gets injured and most people are relieved it is not Martial, who is playing well but not scoring, so hopefully he gets back scoring. He was close yesterday.

Flint Fredstone · 06-12-2015 02:55PM

kstand wrote: »

I had a season ticket. I go to a lot of our away games in London where I live. And yeah, I watch the games.
While you sit there in your Man United dressing gown drinking tea out of your Man United mug and look out the window occasionally through your Msn a United curtains.

Hey!!! Less of that. I've got those curtains too.

StringerBell · 06-12-2015 03:00PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

You do realise you just asked people for quotes from the sunday rags just so you could have a snipe at another poster?

This is a pretty **** thread to have an opinion in.

I realise what I asked for is to see if there is proof/truth of the reported quotes last night that Mitch spoke of, and then made the assumption if they were true then surely he would have already been in to post about it.

Unfair?

bucketybuck · 06-12-2015 03:29PM

StringerBell wrote: »

Unfair?

Revealing.

Lord TSC · 06-12-2015 03:37PM

What do ye think, lads?

Alan Pardew as the next United manager?

:P

The_Kew_Tour · 06-12-2015 03:43PM

Even back in the good old days, when I went to 5 or 6 away games, per season, along with few home games I would never judge fan based on how many games they go to, be it Club or International.

I do think you get more of the Loyal fan who go to away games, but not 100% true either.

Said before though that I would advise anyone to go to away game at some stage.

StringerBell · 06-12-2015 03:44PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Revealing.

Just as I thought.

hufpc8w3adnk65 · 06-12-2015 03:49PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Even back in the good old days, when I went to 5 or 6 away games, per season, along with few home games I would never judge fan based on how many games they go to, be it Club or International.

I do think you get more of the Loyal fan who go to away games, but not 100% true either.

Said before though that I would advise anyone to go to away game at some stage.

I was at Pool V United or the Suarez V Evra game and the away section was literally rocking the entire time! Loved it

Does that make me a real fan??

Trigger · 06-12-2015 03:49PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

What do ye think, lads?

Alan Pardew as the next United manager?

:P

I think David's are stupi... oh wait

The_Kew_Tour · 06-12-2015 03:51PM

MrMac84 wrote: »

I was at Pool V United or the Suarez V Evra game and the away section was literally rocking the entire time! Loved it

Does that make me a real fan??

Proper one!!

Rossi IRL · 06-12-2015 04:05PM

Cant really blame LVG for yesterday, had plenty of good chances that either went just wide or blocked.

Best chance dropped to fellaini, even though he should of been sent off before hand.

That tackle he did was horrible.

Nice to see varela getting some game time, hopefully he gets a bit more with darmian playing left back

Your Airbag · 06-12-2015 04:39PM

The calls for LVGs head are very premature. The Glazers are right to back him. I want him to stay also. Why? because he is doing a good job when you consider everything.

First off, I can understand completely peoples frustration at the draws and lack of cutting edge/exciting football. I don't think LVG is perfect and he has got a few things wrong but nobody else will be as frustraed as LVG.

BUT, what he is attempting to do has not been done at UTD for decades, 30-50+ years or maybe even ever. He is changing the CULTURE of the club. He is changing UTD from a wide attcking team to a possesion team. This has never been attempted before. He is bringing a Bayern/Barca style to UTD and the EPL. Thats not easy.

Before you jump down my throat I realise Bayern/Barca create and convert a fcukton of chances but consider the following, they are in leagues that are a world apart from the EPL. La Liga is a two team league and BL is a one team league. Those two teams have the best players in the world. We do not. Thusly you cannot fairly compare us and our styles.

Some of that is on LVG due to his transfers but all transfers are a risk and he cannot do anything about top players wanting to go to Bayern and Barca instead of us. Saying that RVP and Chico were shipped out too early for my liking but ADM wanted out. As I said he has gotten some things wrong but the good outwieghs the bad for me.

Back to the football, LVG is putting foundations in place for a european/possesion style that will last at the club for years hopefully. Pep's name is mentioned a lot but its too early for him but when he is ready all LVGs work will have been perfect in making it ideal for Pep to come in because LVG is ingraining the possesion style in the players and staff.

The youth players are being thought this, Giggs too. Lingard, Martial, Depay etc all learning this way at a young age. He is changing the make up of Man UTD and he is doing it whilst hitting his targets.

1. Get us back into the top four.
2. Mount a title challenge.
3. Rebuild the squad by clearing out the deadwood.

Thats is not an easy thng to do, especially in the EPL

A lack of world class forwards is hurting us right now. Some of that is on LVG and some is the strenght of the La Liga & Bayern lure.

Consider the following also

We are averaging the highest possesion in the league.
We have a very good defense.
We have let in only ONE goal at home this season in the EPL
We are unbeaten since Oct 5th in normal time in all competitions
We have let in only 3 goals since OCT 5TH

What we are seeing is the progression/foundatios and work of LVG slowly starting to manifest itself on the pitch very effectively. He is instilling this through out the club.

When you consider the loss of from of Rooney, Memphis being dissapointing overall (good yday though), the loss of shaw and the fact we didn't sign a CB (LVG had trust in Smalling and Blind as is being proven right) we are doing well to be still in it, we are only 3 points off top.

The style and its effectiveness will only become better as the players and coach perfect it even more. If LVG can get some top class forwards/wingers who can cut defenses apart we will be very effective and hopefully efective for years to come. January and the sumer windows are massive.

I can see what LVG is slowly building, he is doing this during his first time ever managing in England. I can see it taking shape. I can see how effective we can be if we get the right players in.

I can see the long term benefits. LVG is a foundation builder and we will massively, massively benefit from his tenure in years to come. I strongly beleive we will look back in years to come when he has left and be thankfull for what he brought to the club.

Lord TSC · 06-12-2015 04:42PM

The calls for LVGs head are very premature. The Glazers are right to back him. I want him to stay also. Why? because he is doing a good job when you consider everything.

I'd be of similar opinion to yourself, and its a great post.

BUT...if you told me that Pep or Carlo were available and were being given €150m, I wouldn't be shedding tears. Its not that I'd actively want LVG gone, but I don't want to miss better options either if they are openly available....

bucketybuck · 06-12-2015 04:52PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

BUT, what he is attempting to do has not been done at UTD for decades, 30-50+ years or maybe even ever. He is changing the CULTURE of the club. He is changing UTD from a wide attcking team to a possesion team. This has never been attempted before. He is bringing a Bayern/Barca style to UTD and the EPL.

Why the presumption that this is a good thing?

Your Airbag · 06-12-2015 05:24PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why the presumption that this is a good thing?

Does it need explaining? Its obvious I would have thought.

Because dominating games with a possesion style has been proven to be very effictive both domestically and in europe for certain clubs. See Barca, see Bayern. See Barca in two UCL finals against us, see Barca dominating La Liga over a very expensive and direct Madrid.

Bayern, do I even need to say anything?

Korat · 06-12-2015 05:40PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

He is changing UTD from a wide attcking team to a possesion team.

I prefer to watch a wide attacking team and so do most other Utd fans by the sounds of it. The owners may have other ideas but the change does seem like a lot of pain for a 3 year stint of LVG in charge. Do we go through all this again if the next guy decides he wants to play another style?

The game yesterday was one of our best performances of the season but West Ham still looked our equals if not the better team, with a new manager and a fraction of our budget.

Liam McPoyle · 06-12-2015 05:42PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

The calls for LVGs head are very premature. The Glazers are right to back him. I want him to stay also. Why? because he is doing a good job when you consider everything.

First off, I can understand completely peoples frustration at the draws and lack of cutting edge/exciting football. I don't think LVG is perfect and he has got a few things wrong but nobody else will be as frustraed as LVG.

BUT, what he is attempting to do has not been done at UTD for decades, 30-50+ years or maybe even ever. He is changing the CULTURE of the club. He is changing UTD from a wide attcking team to a possesion team. This has never been attempted before. He is bringing a Bayern/Barca style to UTD and the EPL. Thats not easy.

Before you jump down my throat I realise Bayern/Barca create and convert a fcukton of chances but consider the following, they are in leagues that are a world apart from the EPL. La Liga is a two team league and BL is a one team league. Those two teams have the best players in the world. We do not. Thusly you cannot fairly compare us and our styles.

Some of that is on LVG due to his transfers but all transfers are a risk and he cannot do anything about top players wanting to go to Bayern and Barca instead of us. Saying that RVP and Chico were shipped out too early for my liking but ADM wanted out. As I said he has gotten some things wrong but the good outwieghs the bad for me.

Back to the football, LVG is putting foundations in place for a european/possesion style that will last at the club for years hopefully. Pep's name is mentioned a lot but its too early for him but when he is ready all LVGs work will have been perfect in making it ideal for Pep to come in because LVG is ingraining the possesion style in the players and staff.

The youth players are being thought this, Giggs too. Lingard, Martial, Depay etc all learning this way at a young age. He is changing the make up of Man UTD and he is doing it whilst hitting his targets.

1. Get us back into the top four.
2. Mount a title challenge.
3. Rebuild the squad by clearing out the deadwood.

Thats is not an easy thng to do, especially in the EPL

A lack of world class forwards is hurting us right now. Some of that is on LVG and some is the strenght of the La Liga & Bayern lure.

Consider the following also

We are averaging the highest possesion in the league.

We have a very good defense.

We have let in only ONE goal at home this season in the EPL

We are unbeaten since Oct 5th in normal time in all competitions

We have let in only 3 goals since OCT 5TH

What we are seeing is the progression/foundatios and work of LVG slowly starting to manifest itself on the pitch very effectively. He is instilling this through out the club.

When you consider the loss of from of Rooney, Memphis being dissapointing overall (good yday though), the loss of shaw and the fact we didn't sign a CB (LVG had trust in Smalling and Blind as is being proven right) we are doing well to be still in it, we are only 3 points off top.

The style and its effectiveness will only become better as the players and coach perfect it even more. If LVG can get some top class forwards/wingers who can cut defenses apart we will be very effective and hopefully efective for years to come. January and the sumer windows are massive.

I can see what LVG is slowly building, he is doing this during his first time ever managing in England. I can see it taking shape. I can see how effective we can be if we get the right players in.

I can see the long term benefits. LVG is a foundation builder and we will massively, massively benefit from his tenure in years to come. I strongly beleive we will look back in years to come when he has left and be thankfull for what he brought to the club.

Your Airbag · 06-12-2015 05:42PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd be of similar opinion to yourself, and its a great post.

BUT...if you told me that Pep or Carlo were available and were being given €150m, I wouldn't be shedding tears. Its not that I'd actively want LVG gone, but I don't want to miss better options either if they are openly available....

Not for me, people will scoff at me for that but I think LVG should be allowed to complete his project. He has done enough to warrant that courtesy imo.

Carlo will not engrain a possession style, thats not to say he isn't effective or a good manager but the long term effects of what LVG is doing really excites me.

As for Pep, its too early for him to take over, the time just isn't right for him to have the maximum impact. Also Pep has never had a bad squad, he has only had the best squads in the world. If he came he could possibly lure former players here which would be great but if you gave him the exact same squad LVG has had the past two seasons I dont think Pep would be even close to as effective as he has been in Spain or Germany.

We have an average lookig squad compared to what Pep has managed. LVG has done some very very good and comendable work, tbh I would sturggle to see Pep doing a lot better with the same squad.

Like I said, we are turning into an effective possesion unit. The highest avg possesion in the EPL, only one goal let in at home all season. Unbeaten since oct 5th. Thats progress and consistancy.

Now imagine that unit getting better but with plyers like Robben or Neymar, Greizman etc up front, and throw in some CB's and midfeilders which I think we also need. Its very exciting.

A Robben or Neymar would cut in and create more. With btter players in the final third scoring more we are very dominant. In that scenario in we score two in a game and we are the winners. Hell we score one and we win a lot.

Thats not only exciting domestically but would rival in Europe against the best for yars to come. Thats very exciting to me.

LVG is chaging us, rewiring our DNA to challenge at those levels, to beat a Barca or Bayern. There is no hope for it this season, as the big question is can LVG lure the top talent here? That is the key.

Football fans, pundits and the media are very reactionary, but its a simplistic short term reactionary view. "We drew 0-0 at home yesterday, not good enough, LVG is not doing well enough". Yes a 0-0 at home is not good enough. LVG will be the first to agreee with you, he doesn't want us mis-firing. The long term is what he is building and its taking shape well I feel.

LVGs style and stability with world class players up top would have us very formidable. A Barca/Bayen style in the EPL. Lets let him try to get us there, lets let him try and turn us into just that becasue that is what he is trying to do.

Your Airbag · 06-12-2015 05:54PM

Korat wrote: »

I prefer to watch a wide attacking team and so do most other Utd fans by sounds by sounds of it. The owners may have other ideas but the change does seem like a lot of pain for a 3 year stint of LVG in charge. Do we go through all this again if the next guy decides he wants to play another style?

The game yesterday was one of our best performances of the season but West Ham still looked our equals if not the better team, with a new manager and a fraction of our budget.

This is a massive worry for me. If LVG was sacked and Giggs appointed all that builidng works goes down the drain.

Thats why I think the Glazers are backing him. They would be meeting with LVG and he would be explaining what he is trying to bring to UTD. From the first team to the youth system, staff etc etc LVG will be engraining this. Thats why the Glazers are backing him. As business men you plan long term and they can see they benefit.

In the business world making a short term loss in order to make a long term profit (such as sony did with deciding the blur ray/hd war but making a loss on every ps3 sold) is a strategy similar to a footbaling equivilant of what LVG is doing and I think the Glazers get it and buy into it. Except LVG is not really making a loss, he is meeting target so far, he's doing well.

Thats why they must stick with him for this season and beyond until the system is better, then it will be the right time or Pep to come in.

06-12-2015 06:11PM

Great post Airbag

bucketybuck · 06-12-2015 06:15PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Does it need explaining? Its obvious I would have thought.

Because dominating games with a possesion style has been proven to be very effictive both domestically and in europe for certain clubs. See Barca, see Bayern. See Barca in two UCL finals against us, see Barca dominating La Liga over a very expensive and direct Madrid.

Bayern, do I even need to say anything?

Why some people like it is obvious, but its not at all a given that its the best thing for the club.

Its a keeping up with the Jones's mentality anyway, just because a Barca team with some of histories greatest players made it very effective does not de facto mean that we should be copying them, I would far rather we keep and build upon our own identity than chase after what another team did.

And yes, say more about Bayern, because damn sure I found them a far more impressive team under Heynckes than they are now as Pep implements his passing game.

You seem happy that a manager is tearing down our club culture so that maybe we can copy what another club did in a different league, and you assume that everybody wants that and its all a good thing. But there is more than one way to win a football match, Bayern showed that before Pep ever got there, Madrid showed that winning the CL 2 years ago, and we could show that if we got our act together.

Add to this the fact that when Van Gaal gets turfed out all his groundwork will be ignored anyway and I don't agree at all that any of this is a good thing. I don't want to be a Barcelona copycat, I don't want our team to be boring as ****.

StringerBell · 06-12-2015 06:33PM

Its not actually copying another club, its Van Gaals identity he is imprinting on the club, he has done it at Barca and Bayern in the past also, him doing the same at United is not the same as copying someone elses style, it is simply transferring your own style onto a new club.

As for what we do after Van Gaal? We search out managers who fit the "philosophy"

and continue.

Your Airbag · 06-12-2015 06:34PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why some people like it is obvious, but its not at all a given that its the best thing for the club.

Its a keeping up with the Jones's mentality anyway, just because a Barca team with some of histories greatest players made it very effective does not de facto mean that we should be copying them, I would far rather we keep and build upon our own identity than chase after what another team did.

And yes, say more about Bayern, because damn sure I found them a far more impressive team under Heynckes than they are now as Pep implements his passing game.

You seem happy that a manager is tearing down our club culture so that maybe we can copy what another club did in a different league, and you assume that everybody wants that and its all a good thing. But there is more than one way to win a football match, Bayern showed that before Pep ever got there, Madrid showed that winning the CL 2 years ago, and we could show that if we got our act together.

Add to this the fact that when Van Gaal gets turfed out all his groundwork will be ignored anyway and I don't agree at all that any of this is a good thing. I don't want to be a Barcelona copycat, I don't want our team to be boring as ****.

A lot of hyperbolic overreactionary statements in there.

Barca and Bayern play some dazzaling football. Barca are more direct under Enrique than under Pep, Bayern under Pep too.

Are you saying you don't want to get to that style or level of success? Fergie was a perfect fit for UTD, we may never see another manager capable of doing wht he did at UTD. You have to be open to change, you have to move on and adapt. Fergie didn't have an answer to the Barca possession system. It cost us two UCL's. A strong UTD playing LVGs style would have a better chance.

You build foundations then you tinker with it. There is nothing to say we can't have UTD history in possesion style but you can't do it all at once. LVG has a big job on his hands, give him time, he is getting there.

Korat · 06-12-2015 06:46PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Thats why they must stick with him for this season and beyond until the system is better, then it will be the right time or Pep to come in.

What if doesn't work domestically?

Utd aren't the first team to try play a possession based game in England.

I'm not even sure I'd want it to work. I know hipsters love it but it bores the hell out of me especially with the kind of player Utd can expect to sign these days.

I remember watching Brazil v France in the Q/F of WC '86. Platini, Tigana, Rochteau, Socrates, Falcao, Junior, ...Zico. I was mesmerised by it because I was used to seeing the hoofball of English soccer and it showed me another way to play the game. But I tried watching it again a few years ago and my god it was boring because at the end of all those beautiful passes I knew there wasn't a goal. I have that feeling watching Utd now only without the beauty.

Hococop · 06-12-2015 06:48PM

This season has been crazy

Headshot · 06-12-2015 06:50PM

Im alot happier now

Your Airbag · 06-12-2015 06:51PM

Korat wrote: »

What if doesn't work domestically?

Utd aren't the first team to try play a possession based game in England.

I'm not even sure I'd want it to work. I know hipsters love it but it bores the hell out of me especially with the kind of player Utd can expect to sign these days.

I remember watching Brazil v France in the Q/F of WC '86. Platini, Tigana, Rochteau, Socrates, Falcao, Junior, ...Zico. I was mesmerised by it because I was used to seeing the hoofball of English soccer and it showed me another way to play the game. But I tried watching it again a few years ago and my god it was boring because at the end of all those beautiful passes I knew there wasn't a goal. I have that feeling watching Utd now only without the beauty.

What if? Not really an argument I can counter as it hasn't happedned or not happened yet.

It has been effective so far in some areas, see highest avg possesion and clean sheets.

I'm willing to give LVG a lot more time even if we don't win the EPL and crash out of the UCL this week (athough it will be a massive dissapointment) because I can see the long term benefits.

I guess some fans are more patient than others, some want the managers head after each match.

We will be better in the long run for having stuck will LVG and allowing him to build and complete his project than we will getting into a firing/hiring cycle. Look at Madrid and Chelsea, a complete lack of stability and consistancy. Is that what you think is better?

madcabbage · 06-12-2015 06:51PM

Premier League, pure mad stuff it is!

06-12-2015 06:52PM

Liverpool hyperbole button getting reset yet again

Again puts our position into perspective

We can win the league if a top class striker is signed in January IMO

One of the most unpredictable seasons I have ever witnessed

Bookies are cleaning up

PhlegmyMoses · 06-12-2015 06:53PM

Clubs don't have playing style cultures anymore, haven't had for 20 years. That **** is pipe-dream idealism for misty-eyed super fans. We were lucky to have a manager that happened to play a certain way for 25 years so we mistake his acumen with some sort of tradition or somehow being different.

It's homogenised and the only culture is winning for the big clubs. Not saying that LVG's way is the right way, I actually am not convinced that he can fix the attack, but we do not need to rigidly adhere to some romantic way of playing to move the club forward.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015 - Mod Note Post 7373

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