Blown engine - where does the customer stand?

mickdw wrote: »

I don't agree at all. The main dealer getting a problem customer is 100 percent their own making on this case.
-The customer drives in with oil pressure light on. If dealt with professionally, in the absence of a full diagnosis, they would have advised the customer that it could be simply the pressure switch or it could be a genuine oil pressure problem. The obvious advice then must be to not drive the car.
When they decided to send the receptionist out to do the inspection and the advice given allowed the situation to develop to the point of engine blow up, I figure they created their own problem.

Yes I understand what you are saying and maybe a problem customer was not the best way to describe the situation. My point was, and I think the OP got what I was saying and the poster above you as well, was that the OP mechanic totally washed his hands of the problem, and a lot of people were overlooking this and just willing to blame the dealer, I find there is a lot of main dealer bashing on boards for some of the time the wrong reasons and in my opinion a lot of the responsibility in this case lies with the regular mechanic of the car, he sent the customer off with the light on, my guess he smelt trouble and got it as far away as he could from him.....

I have / had a diesel Outback in my sights as my next car. Now I am worried.

Colser wrote: »

Im going to have to disagree here and its not dealer bashing.
Im guessing his mechanic instantly knew that this was a major problem when he heard the light was on(and did the right thing recommending the dealers mechanic who should be an expert on this.
The bit thats really amazing me is that any mechanic (apprentice or not) working in a Subaru garage would tell the customer to drive on..Im struggling to actually believe this (no offence OP).

We will have to agree to disagree on this one! :-) HIS customer came to him physically not heard there was a light on, HE sent them off, any mechanic worth his salt would be able to diagnose what was wrong with it, (I wonder did he do any checks at all,), the car should not have to goto the dealer for that, HE was probably quiet happy to take money off HIS customer for the handy jobs, my guess he smelt trouble and dropped it like a hot potato!! I know in my business, we would never refer a good customer onto someone else...

I do agree with your line about the dealer checking the car....

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is all far too simplistic to be honest.

People don't want to pay main dealer prices, they want smaller independent mechanics to do their work because they are cheaper but the fact is that the independents can only do so much. We pay tens of thousands every year for diagnostic equipment, the smaller guys cannot do that and without it there is a definite limit to what they can do to a modern car.

You confidently state that any mechanic worth his salt should be able to diagnose the fault but in many many cases this simply isn't true, there are faults that they cannot diagnose, ecu's that they cannot programme, fuel systems that they cannot test, switches that they cannot test. I know a lot of damn good independent mechanics but not being able to repair CANBUS wiring without the full wiring diagrams isn't really a slight on their ability.

It all comes down to what the mechanic offers and for a lot of independents what they offer is good solid servicing and basic troubleshooting. And they provide that, they don't pretend to anything more. You are saying they should also be providing full dealer service but are you prepared to pay for it? To pay for the training and equipment costs that come with it? I doubt it.

Only the OP knows exactly the agreement he has with his own mechanic, what the expectations are, but if there is a fault he cannot diagnose it is infinitely better for the mechanic to say that straight up, instead of trying to bluff it, taking the car off the road for weeks and throwing parts at the problem until it goes away. Theres plenty of chancers who would do that too.

I can see you feel strongly on this one. To me this was an oil light, they have been in cars for yonks, from my reading of this one he did not even check the situation, I am sticking to my theory this guy, saw a problem and got it off his property as quick as he could.

bucketybuck wrote: »

I feel strongly? What a strange thing to say.

So what exactly should the mechanic have done? You seem to think he was derelict in his duty by advising the OP to go to a better garage, so I assume you think he should have tried to fix it himself? He should have bought and fitted an oil pressure switch, then an oil pump, then a new wiring harness, then whatever it takes to finally knock that pesky light off, is that your position?

Fact is, your reading of things is based on not enough information. You don't even know if this mechanic had any sort of code reader at all, never mind one able to trouble shoot this particular fault. Did he have the right pressure guages to check oil pressure? Maybe he is just some retired mechanic with a few tools in his garage, you just don't know.

What you do know is that he advised the OP to go to the experts. Its very hard to ever call that horrible advice.

I'm with you on this and I'm still of the opinion that the main dealer gave the wrong advice.
The only complaint I could have in terms of how the first garage dealt with this is that he should also have advised that it may not be safe to drive.

Perhaps the OP could give us an update on this, and clear up what the guy who services the car did / did not do.

selous wrote: »

When I bought my Subaru, I stopped going to my old (quite brilliant) mechanic even though he was e40 p/h cheaper and would use Subaru parts, I used the main dealer all the time, every 15k-km brake pads everything, as I wanted the reliable car to stay that way, yet it still broke, 2.5months after it's last service, and they still say it's just one of them things, (but have contributed main parts for a rebuild) I don't see how the car went from perfect to fu**ed in 6000km, something wasn't checked properly, and it's them who know the cars inside out, and if I can find a trail of problems with the car and injectors, how come someone on the inside "knows nothing", boils the blood, let me tell you.

The common customer complaint, you got a service and so everything must be perfect until the next service or its the garages fault. Your entire anecdote is also based on the assumption that had your old mechanic done the work the vehicle would not have broken down, which is not a given.

I know nothing about your particular case but the sorry fact is that a good mechanic could have done a perfect service on your car and it still might have broken down 6000kms later, because a lot can happen in 6000kms.

Hell, perfect to fucked in 6000kms? I've seen cars go from perfect to ****ed in 60kms. It does happen. But I have no interest in convincing you about a case I wasn't involved in, so blame the dealer if you wish.

Not what im saying, I deceided to use main dealer, for the warranty etc, the other mechanic still does the O.H's car, I seen that there is a problem with the engine in the Subaru, and the injectors cause a lot of trouble they get burnt and mix diesel into the oil, if I was advised by the dealer that they needed to be reconditioned at a certain mileage, or major damage can happen, I would have done it, (I seen one dealer saying it should be done) my old mechanic may not have known of the problem, but i'm sure the main dealer should have.

But there seems to be a fault with the engine in the 08-10 Subaru diesels and no one could have prevented it, as they seem to pop their clogs around the same mileage, (see the other thread)

deandean wrote: »

I have / had a diesel Outback in my sights as my next car. Now I am worried.

And you'd be right. I saw a lovely import one this am and all I could think was. ."..I wonder when the crank will expire. ..?"

That's some marketing job there Subaru. .....

bucketybuck wrote: »

Maybe you should give Selous the respect of actually reading his posts.


Its pretty clear what those words mean.

Would you agree that if a car that was bought new and serviced by the main dealer and that the particular model has a known fault/problem should have been checked for it at the last service given the milage on the car?

Colser wrote: »

Would you agree that if a car that was bought new and serviced by the main dealer and that the particular model has a known fault/problem should have been checked for it at the last service given the milage on the car?

So they should check the crankshaft at every service? Are you prepared to pay the labour involved in that? Should they test the injectors even when there is no evidence of fault? Even though all the injector test will say is 'the injectors are fine'?

A proper service will of course check for known defects but lets get real, there is a limit to what will be done in a simple service because nobody wants to pay for anything more than that.

Unless instructed by FHI the dealers themselves will not be looking at finding and diagnosing a problem like that. It would also be false to assume that the mechanics working in these dealerships are Subaru enthusiasts who pride themselves in knowing these cars inside out. Remember that other than 2.5T engines Subaru have been for may years reliable and so their experience is limited only to regular servicing and maybe valve clearance adjustment. When I enquired about checking and adjusting valves in my local Subaru garage they looked at me as if I had three heads. Do ye think here that they would have a clue how to prevent the big bang in a very complex boxer diesel engine? These guys come to work and in most cases spend more time servicing and repairing Kias, Citroens or whatever other make they sell in the same garage as it would be impossible to make a business from selling Subaru alone in this country.

Just to confirm the injectors are tested at each service in Subaru dealers in Poland. Regardless if the customer complains about the engine going rough or not. In terms of the crankshaft play the sump needs to be taken off and re-fitted afterwards. I would not think it is something that one needs a half a day for. I would say 2 hours tops and a new sump gasket. Also it doesn't need to be done each time the car comes in for new oil and filters. Also like I said in the other post oil analysis and/or looking into the oil filter for metal shavings are first symptoms.

I would think that you do not buy a Subaru by a coincidence. You do not get out of the house driving Kia, Opel etc to eventually end up in Subaru. For one I would not expect the owner to be a petrol head but to be familiar at least with the basics and know what a low pressure oil light can mean - even for those who don't there is also a clear instruction written into every manual that comes with the car. On top of that I would expect the mechanics dealing with such brand to know their stuff too. And I'm sorry to say this but anyone who says that it is ok to drive a car with a low pressure oil light on without thoroughly diagnosing the issue is an idiot and the one to avoid for sure.

The only thing I do not understand here is how on earth the engine had lasted this long with the low oil pressure? All the "regular" bottom end failures I have heard off where sudden - the engine was gone within 2 minutes or less.

Miley Byrne wrote: »

Yes, definitely miles

On the original DMF and clutch?

Miley Byrne wrote: »

I will clear up as much as i can from what I know clogher. I'm not sure how much diagnostic equipment he has but he has a decent workshop and is a fulltime mechanic who has been servicing this fella's cars for a good few years. Reading between the lines having spoken to the car owner, i think he is reluctant to blame it try to pin it on his own mechanic. He is an honest guy and I think he feels that in hindsight the main dealer gave him bad advice.

Thanks for that, yes the dealer may or may not have given bad advice. My gut instinct on this one is his mechanic saw trouble and referred him on, I have and might be slated for this again, just like my example in my first post.