Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

The US says it will tighten travel restrictions on foreigners who visit the country without needing full visas.
About 20 million people from 38 countries enter America each year under the visa waiver programme.
It has come under increased scrutiny since last month's attacks in Paris, with lawmakers expressing concern that militants could get into the US.
Under changes that are be submitted to Congress, all countries in the scheme would be asked to issue "e-passports".
Their registrations would come under greater scrutiny from US agencies, and travellers would also be screened to see if they had travelled to militant-held areas.
The Department of Homeland Security will also ask Congress for additional powers, including increase fines for airlines that fail to verify passport data.
The changes will "enhance our ability to thwart terrorist attempts to travel on lost or stolen passports", White House spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters in Paris, where President Barack Obama is attending UN talks on climate change.
The programme currently allows people from designated countries to visit the US for 90-day stays without getting a visa.
Several of the suspected perpetrators of the Paris terror attacks were from Belgium and France, which are countries on the list.

If these attacks continue, and they probably will, I can see the yanks pulling the VWP for certain EU member states due to internal pressure from their citizens. The EU, of course, will keep the doors open.

JupiterKid wrote: »

The huge elephant In the room is that most terrorism over the past 20 or so years has come from Islamist movements/groups.

Islam is totally alien to Europe. Europe is a largely secular continent with a Christian heritage. Islam tried repeatedly to take over Europe but failed. At one stage, Southern Spain was Islamic and in 1683 Islamic jihadis attempted (but failed) to take Vienna.

The main difference between Islam and Christanity is that Christianity had an Enlightenment in the 17th/18th century which led to church and state becoming separate. Islam has had no such Enlightenment.

But the thing is that this is simply not true.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619
http://www.vocativ.com/news/251821/muslims-terrorist-attacks/

And those numbers tend to be about the same in the rest of the world (obviously not in the Arab world, for clear reasons).
That's not saying it's not a problem that seems to be on the rise.

The root cause of most masses of civilian deaths, are western nations warring in the ME - terrorizing the whole region.

So terror on our shores is ok because of this? Two wrongs make a right?

Most people killed in the middle east are by people from the middle east. Do the 'west' have a hand in causing this, yes they do and we should stay out of it unless preventing acts of genocide.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

But the thing is that this is simply not true.
That's not saying it's not a problem that seems to be on the rise.

I'm skeptical of the methodology of this research. To me the only terrorism worth mentioning is one that involves loss of life, and if we look at the history of most Western European countries (Norway excepted) in the last ten years, the Islamic element stands out. Unless somebody is going to claim that there have been multiple terrorist attacks in France and the UK that the press is covering up.

Nodin wrote: »

Ok then. You can inform the folk in the med and Balkans what part of their lives and architecture have to get the boat back.

Well, in fact, we don't. The Bosnian Muslims did the sensible thing and dumped most of that anachronistic baggage on their way to becoming the most secularized Muslims in Europe. Most of them are, I believe, "cultural" Muslims, more an ethnic than religious group. Unlike their co-religionists in places like Arabia and Pakistan, less time is spent learning Arabic and pondering obscure Koranic injunctions on the pious or haram ways of shaving your armpits or tethering your mule.

opiniated wrote: »

Ah! Exodus! You do realise that the New Testament is the prime source for Chrisrtianity?
Where the perfect prayer says "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us?"

One important difference between Christianity and Islam (or indeed between Christianity and all other religions) is the two-stage nature of Christian revelation. In many way-this is a complicated subject-the Old Testament has been superseded by the New and many of its injunctions don't have the obligatory character that the New Testament does. For this we have the catholic Church to thank, as its Hierarchy began a long, millennia-long project of putting themselves as an authority equal to, or even greater than scripture, and the only authority with the right to interpret it. This , of course, does not obtain, in regions that adhere to a more biblically fundamentalist view, as is the case in parts of the United states, where one still gets cases of violent religious extremism.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

You have western nations either directly or indirectly blowing the shít out of civilians all over the ME - they just get to hide behind the ability to label this 'war' instead of 'terrorism', seeing as they are states - but there is no real reason at all to judge them separately, the 'terrorist' label is mostly meaningless. The root cause of most masses of civilian deaths, are western nations warring in the ME - terrorizing the whole region.

Most of the deaths in the broader ME in the last fifty years are the result of ME nations warring with each other or with their minorities: Iraq against Iran, Iraq against Kurds, Iraq against Kuwait, Syria and Saudi against Iraq (Gulf War 1), Iraq against Assyrians, Egypt against Yemen, Morocco against western Sahara, Jihadis against Algerian government, Turkey against Kurds, Jordan against Palestinians, Lebanese Christians against Lebanese Muslims, Syrians against Palestinians, Sudan against its rebels......

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah, abortion has no bearing on Christianity at all.

I certainly hope you're not trying to say the Old Testament laws no longer apply though, or brothers will be marrying their sisters in churches across the world before we know it! :pac:

By the way, I would generally agree about blaming religion for political conflicts, but what I find far worse than that is the hypocrisy of blaming one religion for all conflicts involving them, and completely, willfully ignoring those involving another.

What does abortion, incest or the Christian terrorist attack got to do with this topic? Absolutely nothing. You're just trying to deflect.

Billy86 wrote: »

Well... http://api.theweek.com/sites/default/files/terrorism-EU-2-638x599.png

To be fair, I wouldn't put some "cover up" conspiracy theory behind it... the fact is the society tends to need an 'enemy' and Islam has taken that role in recent times. A story about a Muslim terrorist attack is guaranteed to sell a lot more papers or get a lot more clicks than one about just a boring old plain terrorist attack.

So Islam is an enemy in Britain, because (British?) society needs an enemy and not because Islamist killers blew up 52 people on the Tube, beheaded a man in broad daylight and hundreds of British Muslims are flocking to Syria to help wage war on half the world (including their own country)?

Billy86 wrote: »

I certainly hope you're not trying to say the Old Testament laws no longer apply though, or brothers will be marrying their sisters in churches across the world before we know it!

Most New Testament laws don't apply, only commonsensical ones: killing, stealing etc. No stoning for adultery, no prohibitions against prawns..

Most of those attacks were carried out by separatist and anarchist groups. But Islamist attacks leave them in the halpenny place when it comes to death tolls.

As for the LRA, start a thread on it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of discussion.

Back on topic - France has shut down three mosques and is likely to shut down up to a hundred more.