Restaurants to charge a euro for tap water

Qualitymark · 01-12-2015 05:20PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Well then they don't really get the point of restaurants. It's true, you can sit at home and drink wine for half the price. But if you want to sit in a nice restaurant and be waited on, and then cooked for by a good chef, you're going to pay extra.

For the food, yes, but doubling the price of wine is just being funny

I've gone into restaurants during the week where you see maybe 6 other people in the place. There's no way they're even breaking even on those days when feck all people come in.

And why don't they come in? Because it's so expensive to eat out. Bring the prices to a reasonable level and the customers will come.

mynameis905 wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a snob, I would run a mile from any restaurant that served pints with their food.

It's the norm in most French restaurants - you can have your bière blonde or your pression, or your wine. Different people take different drinks. And people are more likely to drink beer during the day and wine in the evening.

Bob24 · 01-12-2015 05:24PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Haven't resturants been paying the water charge for years like every other business? How come it's only an issue now?

It's up to the business, if they want to charge let them charge and see if people are willing to pay it.

Not to mention the fact that at the current prices 1 glass of water would cost them something like a tenth of a cent.

They can charge a euro for it if they want to, but saying it is due to the cost of water is just pure hypocrisy. They just increase their revenue per customer and encourage people to buy more expensive drinks.

Grandeeod · 01-12-2015 05:32PM

And to think this is coming from an industry that got a reduction in their VAT rate.:rolleyes:

I remember a gastropub near me reducing their meal prices when the VAT rate came down. A few weeks in and the menu was changed and the prices were even higher. Restaurants are a F'ing rip off in this country.

ScumLord · 01-12-2015 05:32PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm not blaming the businesses here, I'm blaming the government and the various state agencies, IW included, which should be massively discounting the hospitality and entertainment sectors instead of making it harder for them to do business. IW should not be increasing water charges for this sector. The government should be tackling the rents and council rates paid by this sector. VAT and excise should be being looked at. The ridiculous cost of parking in most parts of Dublin needs to be dealt with. The fact that clubs have to pay a ridiculous fee for each individual night that they want to open late needs to be scrapped.

None of these are the fault of the businesses involved, they're the fault of mind bogglingly idiotic government policies which are essentially designed to raise short term cash at the expense of long term population, tourism, and established business. Simple as. They're ok with making an extra few euro now on all of these costs to businesses, regardless of whether that decimates the sector and results in reduced trade for years to come.

And I can tell you first hand that this is a massive hidden factor in immigration. People left because there were no jobs. Many of those people are choosing not to come home because they've got a taste of what a civilised cost of living and bang for your buck looks like in other cities and countries, and balk at the idea of coming back to somewhere where everything from a pint of milk in a supermarket to a pint of beer in a pub can cost up to twice as much.

I agree, the government do very little for businesses. But not knowing what went into those decision I can't really say if it could have been done better under the circumstances. I really don't think the general public have any idea how much things cost. How they contribute to the costs of things. They see simple numbers like steel costs this much, and then expect the product that's made at the end to just cost the price of the steel that went into it.

Qualitymark wrote: »

For the food, yes, but doubling the price of wine is just being funny

Why? How much does it cost to stock wine?

And why don't they come in? Because it's so expensive to eat out. Bring the prices to a reasonable level and the customers will come.

I very much doubt that no one in the restaurant business has had that idea yet. People try that and fail all the time. You can't price your product on the assumption you'll be selling it non stop all day, every day. You could price your food really low only for people to turn around and say they don't trust it on the basis it's so cheap. That happens all the time, most of the medical industries products are twice the price they could be because customers expect to pay a lot, and think anything that's cheap is also crap. And also the government tends to cover the bill so add a zero for that.

Muahahaha · 01-12-2015 05:34PM

mynameis905 wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a snob, I would run a mile from any restaurant that served pints with their food. I might make an exception for something at the very casual carvery level, but certainly not in a good restaurant.

Then you would refuse to eat in Heston Blumenthal's Michelin rated Pub?

Good food doesn't only come in restaurants. We are only at the initial stages of the gastropub phase but already there are plenty of establishments serving top class restaurant quality food with craft beers matched to boot. The trend is more evident in the UK but it is spreading here too.

Herb Powell · 01-12-2015 05:46PM

mynameis905 wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a snob, I would run a mile from any restaurant that served pints with their food. I might make an exception for something at the very casual carvery level, but certainly not in a good restaurant.

You do sound like a massive snob, lmao.

You know you don't have to order a pint if you don't want one, right?

I don't like wine at all, so I always find it good when I can get a nice beer with my meal.

rubadub · 01-12-2015 05:51PM

mynameis905 wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a snob

Not a snob -illogical, irrational or maybe a hypocrite. I would have to hear more about the reasons for your objections.

whiskeyman · 01-12-2015 06:05PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

A restaurant I go to from time to time in Dublin charges I think €1 each for unlimited, filtered water. It's always wedged every time I go there. The food is great so people don't care.

I saw this before too.
Where was it?
Yamamori or somewhere like that?

Bob24 · 01-12-2015 06:10PM

whiskeyman wrote: »

I saw this before too.
Where was it?
Yamamori or somewhere like that?

I don't think Yamamori does that, but Yo!Sushi definitely does.

murpho999 · 01-12-2015 06:19PM

I don't get why restaurants are making a deal out of this.

Just add 10 ct to each dish that would not be noticed and then they are covered.

In fairness, i think most people have bottle water in restaurants and tap water is generally for carveries.

If tap water is asked for there is usually wine sold as well so margins are still up.

People also forget you're not just paying for the water but for the service, glasses, time of waiter etc.

FatherTed · 01-12-2015 06:49PM

What about the water you flush in a restaurant bathroom, will they start charging for that too? Comes from the same place.

Bob24 · 01-12-2015 06:57PM

murpho999 wrote: »

People also forget you're not just paying for the water but for the service, glasses, time of waiter etc.

That is very true, but none of that has changed and that cost has always been accounted for in the price of the dishes people are ordering (or drinks at the pub). It is a matter of local custom to decide what is directly change to the customer or not: in some countries there will be an explicit service charge, in others there will be a charge for cutlery, etc.

What is dishonest is when you start directly charging for something which used to be free and everything else remains them same whereas it should logically decrease.

Tarzana2 · 01-12-2015 07:08PM

whiskeyman wrote: »

I saw this before too.
Where was it?
Yamamori or somewhere like that?

Not Yamamori, no. It's been about six months since I've been in this restaurant and maybe their policy has changed so I'm loathe to name them. But a popular city centre restaurant serving Mediterranean-inspired dishes is how I'd describe them.

toptom · 01-12-2015 07:10PM

Nothing wrong with it they got to pay IW same as the rest of us.

rubadub · 01-12-2015 07:13PM

FatherTed wrote: »

What about the water you flush in a restaurant bathroom, will they start charging for that too? Comes from the same place.

If it does come from the same place, i.e. "From a logical perspective, if you invest in equipment that provides good quality, filtered, good-tasting drinking water then restaurants will probably add a charge to the bill"

Then some might have considered it. Many shopping centres will charge. There is an embarassment factor in charging for toilets so I don't think it will catch on. In most cases it is not filtered water in toilets, and fitlered water was repeatedly mentioned in that article. Some bottled water is really just filtered municpal water, rare over here I think though.

I have already said if I owned a restaurant I would not charge for water as I already knew, and this thread confirms, that there are loads of people who point blank to logically look at this. They are so used to getting it free they expect it, and its not worth arguing with some if you risk losing custom.

I wonder what people consider to be a fair surcharge on any drink above its cost price. I am not talking % or margins here, but minimum charge. Just like if you go to a bank there may be a fixed % above a certain value for currency exchange, but if you go less there may be a minimum fee for the service invovled.

So restaurants might be buying bottles of beer for 75cent or a carton of orange juice for €1 in the local supermarket and getting water for lets say less than a cent so in effect zero. They might charge €5 for the beer which may come with a glass & ice, so this is €4.25 in addition. So €1 for the water is far less profit per beverage.

ScumLord · 01-12-2015 07:23PM

rubadub wrote: »

I have already said if I owned a restaurant I would not charge for water

I wouldn't either, it would be easy enough to hide that charge. Maybe if someone was clearly taking the piss I'd say the first jug is free, every jug after that costs a euro.

But at the same time I wouldn't throw a hissy fit if I saw a 1 euro charge on my bill for a jug of water (although I'd expect to be told up front of the charge). I wouldn't punish the waiting staff for it, I wouldn't use it as an excuse to boycott the place either.

Over all restaurants have more than likely dealt with this problem already as the charge has been with them for years. This is just a publicity stunt, maybe it's intended to highlight an expense restaurants have that people wouldn't realise. Of course everyone should know by now that you can't say anything these days without someone getting the hump over it.

Bob24 · 01-12-2015 07:30PM

toptom wrote: »

Nothing wrong with it they got to pay IW same as the rest of us.

Commercial premises were already charged for water by local authorities, no change there. And the cost of a glass of water in terms of an IW bill is in the region of 0.1 cent (that's 1000 glasses for 1 euro).

The cost of water has nothing to do with this, it's just a new charge they want to introduce.

Grandeeod · 01-12-2015 07:40PM

Bob24 wrote: »

The cost of water has nothing to do with this, it's just a new charge they want to introduce.

Exactly. Pure greed.

toptom · 01-12-2015 07:40PM

Bob24 wrote: »

Commercial premises were already charged for water by local authorities, no change there. And the cost of a glass of water in terms of an IW bill is in the region of 0.1 cent (that's 1000 glasses for 1 euro).

The cost of water has nothing to do with this, it's just a new charge they want to introduce.

Alright i didnt know that. thanks Bob24.

They still got to pay there staff though

slimjimmc · 01-12-2015 07:45PM

Blut2 wrote: »

I was under the impression that anywhere serving alcohol was obligated to give out free pints of water under the terms of their license. Is that incorrect?

Restaurants have to make drinking water available but nothing says they have to give it for free.

Eg S.I. No. 147/1988

(12) A range of suitable beverages other than intoxicating liquor (including drinking water) shall also be available for consumption in the restaurant.

Grandeeod · 01-12-2015 08:10PM

toptom wrote: »

Alright i didnt know that. thanks Bob24.

They still got to pay there staff though

Staff are poorly paid and work long and often unsociable hours. Staff turn over is high. While you sit there paying crazy money for average food (in many places) behind the scenes its about maximising profit at the expense of a lot.

Now before the AH "provide a source" brigade come stomping out, I base my opinions on knowing lots of chefs and waiting staff. Some of the stories are horrific. Its been this way for a long time. I did my stints as a waiter/kitchen porter in my student days. Saw a lot. I used to eat out a lot, but jacked it in due to seeing too much penny pinching and rising prices. This industry got a VAT reduction and still it wants to ride people to high heaven. **** em and their 1 yo yo charge for water. A lot of restaurants are systematically killing themselves and any semblence of a reputation they held.

Sam Kade · 01-12-2015 08:13PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Exactly. Pure greed.

Make your own god damn dinner then

The Black Oil · 01-12-2015 08:24PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Back in the 1960s, when kids started drinking 'soda' and eating 'candy', there was a big campaign in the US to put public drinking fountains everywhere by law, so that no one could go thirsty. That was smashed by the sugar industry.

NPR's Planet Money podcast covered this recently. Worth a listen.

ScumLord · 01-12-2015 08:34PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Staff are poorly paid and work long and often unsociable hours. Staff turn over is high. While you sit there paying crazy money for average food (in many places) behind the scenes its about maximising profit at the expense of a lot.

There's nothing wrong with maximising profits. That's what any business is about. You could say pretty much the same thing about an iPhone.

Now before the AH "provide a source" brigade come stomping out, I base my opinions on knowing lots of chefs and waiting staff.

So you've basically got one side of the story. You're basing your financial assessment of the business on the lay opinion of some disgruntled workers.

I wouldn't necessarily blame management for poor pay either, we live in a discount society where the consumer has made it abundantly clear all they really care about is the cost. We reward companies for being cheap, even though we know that cheapness quite often comes at the expense of the employee.

scamalert · 01-12-2015 08:38PM

dont see an issue if someone worked in retail would realize that small shops basically sell 50/50 water soda in general,given that it costs nearly 2e per 500mil tap water bottle thats before any water taxes existed and people dont mind paying it :cool:
So just stupid cry article to make an issue of something which otherwise has been done for ages now.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 01-12-2015 08:40PM

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Not Yamamori, no. It's been about six months since I've been in this restaurant and maybe their policy has changed so I'm loathe to name them. But a popular city centre restaurant serving Mediterranean-inspired dishes is how I'd describe them.

I was thinking of another place of the Asian variety and it is always mobbed. €1 per person for unlimited water. I don't see the problem really. At least you know you will have your water and don't have to ask the staff half a dozen times.

Grandeeod · 01-12-2015 09:01PM

Sam Kade wrote: »

Make your own god damn dinner then

I do. Got to learn a lot of recipes after I gave up eating out.

JP Liz V1 · 01-12-2015 09:08PM

49c for 2L still water in Dunnes and Tescos, so can I bring with in with me

Grandeeod · 01-12-2015 09:09PM

ScumLord wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with maximising profits. That's what any business is about. You could say pretty much the same thing about an iPhone.

So you've basically got one side of the story. You're basing your financial assessment of the business on the lay opinion of some disgruntled workers.

I wouldn't necessarily blame management for poor pay either, we live in a discount society where the consumer has made it abundantly clear all they really care about is the cost. We reward companies for being cheap, even though we know that cheapness quite often comes at the expense of the employee.

I said maximising profits at the expense of a lot. There's a difference.

Actually I have both sides of the story. I quoted one side, the disgruntled workers as you put it.

I blame management for all of it. The restaurant industry benefits from a low VAT rate. It was introduced to assist it. But the industry is abusing it and prices are still creeping up. This water charge is a pitiful attempt at publicity that will lead to higher meal prices IMO. Food is an easy business. If you can't make money from it, then you shouldn't be in the game. High end. Low end. Take your friggin pick.

Adyx · 01-12-2015 09:10PM

Besides the RAI has anyone firm proof of a restaurant saying they were going to do this? There's an awful lot of accusations and name calling ("s umbags" - really?) But I don't know of one place that has implemented this.

Restaurants to charge a euro for tap water

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