IAG bids for Aer Lingus

ImDave · 18-11-2015 01:59PM

Interesting post over on FlyerTalk about AerClub tier benefits and Avios rates. No mention of conversation rate from GC points however.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/aer-lingus-gold-circle-club/1725365-wiki-aerclub-member-benefits-tier.html

IRLConor · 18-11-2015 02:55PM

ImDave wrote: »

Interesting post over on FlyerTalk about AerClub tier benefits and Avios rates. No mention of conversation rate from GC points however.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/aer-lingus-gold-circle-club/1725365-wiki-aerclub-member-benefits-tier.html

Assuming that they map the tiers like this:

Gold Circle Applicant -> AerClub Green
Gold Circle Gold -> AerClub Silver
Gold Circle Prestige -> AerClub Platinum
Gold Circle Elite -> AerClub Concierge

... then we're going to see a lot more space in the lounges. There's a limit of 5 lounge accesses per year for GC Gold/AC Silver. No guest access either.

WheatenBriar · 18-11-2015 03:09PM

IRLConor wrote: »

Assuming that they map the tiers like this:

Gold Circle Applicant -> AerClub Green
Gold Circle Gold -> AerClub Silver
Gold Circle Prestige -> AerClub Platinum
Gold Circle Elite -> AerClub Concierge

... then we're going to see a lot more space in the lounges. There's a limit of 5 lounge accesses per year for GC Gold/AC Silver. No guest access either.

Paid access to AA lounges in the states happens,so presumably it will continue in EI lounges,so extra space might not be a given,plus you'll have AA pax
Confusing titles on the tiers,where silver above is going to be OW ruby,platinum,Sapphire and concierge OW emerald
Currently often one world Sapphire can easily be attained ex Dub on BA to the states in one trip for about €1400 in one J trip
If you need to go to the states at least once in a year,you'd want to look at whether status is worth whatever spend its set at in the new AerClub

AndyBoBandy · 18-11-2015 03:35PM

IRLConor wrote: »

There's a limit of 5 lounge accesses per year for GC Gold/AC Silver. No guest access either.

Really?

I'm only gold and go into the lounge for every flight I take, probably about 20 flights already this year.
And I bring a guest from time to time! (Last time was actually today)

IRLConor · 18-11-2015 03:51PM

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Currently often one world Sapphire can easily be attained ex Dub on BA to the states in one trip for about €1400 in one J trip
If you need to go to the states at least once in a year,you'd want to look at whether status is worth whatever spend its set at in the new AerClub

Yeah, it all depends on how they set the tier points.

At the moment I'm doing roughly 2 US & 5 EU trips per year. That's enough to just about maintain the lowest status in the current program. Given a very rough look at how BA does theirs, that would get me into the same tier as I'm in now depending on the blend of discounted vs full-fare tickets I'd be on.

IRLConor · 18-11-2015 03:57PM

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Really?

Well, according to the flyertalk thread linked above the benefits will be as follows:

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AndyBoBandy · 18-11-2015 04:08PM

That's pretty poor form if that's the case,

Fast track security & lounge access are the only worthwhile benefits of being a gold circle member!!

goingnowhere · 18-11-2015 05:01PM

For current applicant, no change but can now can spend the points earned.
For a current Gold its not different bar the loss of lounge access (well 5 per visits/year for free), but seat allocation finally formally confirmed in the program
For a current Prestige we get 1 free upgrade, second bag free, reduced change fees (unclear if the though ticket LHR lounge rule is gone)
For a current Elite zero change fees and partner lounge access

ImDave · 18-11-2015 05:08PM

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

That's pretty poor form if that's the case,

Fast track security & lounge access are the only worthwhile benefits of being a gold circle member!!

They certainly are the only real benefits of GC as it stands, but that will hopefully change.

The 5 visit limit is a big shock from what you get at Gold level currently, but in fairness BA Silver doesn't get you any lounge access at all, and I think the tier structuring is very similar to BAEC.

One thing I was thinking however is that as EI offer paid lounge access at present, they may allow purchase of additional visits for AerClub Silver members at the lounge desk with Avios points. Or maybe that is wishful thinking!

Marcusm · 18-11-2015 05:14PM

ImDave wrote: »

They certainly are the only real benefits of GC as it stands, but that will hopefully change.

The 5 visit limit is a big shock from what you get at Gold level currently, but in fairness BA Silver doesn't get you any lounge access at all, and I think the tier structuring is very similar to BAEC.

One thing I was thinking however is that as EI offer paid lounge access at present, they may allow purchase of additional visits for AerClub Silver members at the lounge desk with Avios points. Or maybe that is wishful thinking!

Rubbish; BAEC Silver which is OW Sapphire gets full lounge access when flying on OW airlines and includes a guest. I suspect AerClub Silver will be OW Ruby which is BAEC Bronze which does not include lounge access. On that basis the AerClub 5 lounge access passes is beneficial albeit I suspect limited to EI lounges.

ImDave · 18-11-2015 05:39PM

Marcusm wrote: »

Rubbish; BAEC Silver which is OW Sapphire gets full lounge access when flying on OW airlines and includes a guest. I suspect AerClub Silver will be OW Ruby which is BAEC Bronze which does not include lounge access. On that basis the AerClub 5 lounge access passes is beneficial albeit I suspect limited to EI lounges.

Meant to say BAEC Bronze vs AerClub Silver.

KevR · 18-11-2015 05:59PM

Has there been any indication on TP + Avios earning possibilities for BAEC members flying with Aer Lingus? Can we expect it to match earnings when flying with BA, AA or Iberia?

Marcusm · 18-11-2015 06:49PM

ImDave wrote: »

Meant to say BAEC Bronze vs AerClub Silver.

Fair enough; I guess confusion will reign with Green, Silver, Platinum and, the very naff, Concierge. Whoever decided on that tiring should be shot then fired.

Marcusm · 18-11-2015 06:52PM

Noxegon wrote: »

The email I got says that no new Gold Circle memberships will be accepted between now and the roll-out of AerClub. Whether that includes a level change from applicant is anyone's guess.

I guess that means that I'm going to lose the last few months of my Gold Circle benefits, which were due to expire in June. D'oh!

Separately, I wonder if there will be a way to consolidate existing Avios into the EI scheme. I have about 250,000 sitting in a BA card that I almost never use, and they'd certainly be more useful on the local airline.

You can already use BA Aviosto buy EI tickets; use on DUB-BOS was particularly popular until recently.

The_Wanderer · 23-11-2015 07:20PM

ImDave wrote: »

You'll lose those points and effectively be starting from scratch in the new system if you remain at applicant stage. If I was you, I ring up Gold Circle tomorrow and ask if you get the additional 350 points in the next few weeks, will they give you GC status.

Worth trying as the alternative is losing your current balance completely.

Email back from Gold Circle today. Existing Applicant members won't lost their points.

Gold Circle wrote:

Thank you for your query in relation to applicant members being transferred across into AerClub.

Applicant members will not lose the Gold Circle Points they have already accrued.

With the launch of AerClub we will be awarding associated Tier Credits for Applicants against the volume of Gold Circle Points they have already accumulated. This will allow Applicant members to continue their progression to attain Silver member status.

This is to ensure that members have every opportunity to earn Gold Circle Points on flight bookings between now and Spring 2016, as the level of flight behaviour between now and the New Year may impact the Tier status they attain.

AerClub offers members two fundamental programme enhancements. We have extended our tier membership levels so that there will be now four membership tiers, Green, Silver, Prestige and Concierge - with the Top three tiers holding recognition status.

Each tier will have a unique combination of reward and recognition benefits, which may include priority check in, priority boarding, lounge access, complimentary upgrades and bonus points earning.

The tier status reached on AerClub will be based on travel on all Aer Lingus flights. The tier status reached will determine the level of tier membership benefits. This will recognise the most loyal and frequent Aer Lingus flyers as tier points will be awarded on the basis of frequency and spend with Aer Lingus over a 12-month period. A true rewards programme that rewards members.
Thank you for your valued custom.

GekkePrutser · 24-11-2015 01:52AM

dudara wrote: »

I purchased it on a flight at the end of last year, to JFK, IIRC.

Overall, it was fine, but we did lose signal for 2-3 hours which was irritating.

It would be nice if it was a free perk for Gold Circle members

Gold Circle is being replaced by some third party program anyway (I'm a bit annoyed as I was nearly there with the points and none of them will carry over). But perhaps the new thing will cover it. Aer Lingus is very tight-lipped about it so far.

dudara · 24-11-2015 02:04AM

I've gotten an email about the new AerClub, but they're not sharing a lot of detail let about the levels. It will be based on Avios, the same system as British Airways. I have a bucket load of BA Avios plus I've held Gold Circle status continuously for about 6 years now, so I'm interested to see how it will all work.

IMO, Gold Circle doesn't currently give much other than priority boarding and lounge access, so I'm interested to see what the new programme will offer.

Tenger · 24-11-2015 09:14AM

GekkePrutser wrote: »

Gold Circle is being replaced by some third party program anyway (I'm a bit annoyed as I was nearly there with the points and none of them will carry over). But perhaps the new thing will cover it. Aer Lingus is very tight-lipped about it so far.

dudara wrote: »

I've gotten an email about the new AerClub, but they're not sharing a lot of detail let about the levels. It will be based on Avios, the same system as British Airways. I have a bucket load of BA Avios plus I've held Gold Circle status continuously for about 6 years now, so I'm interested to see how it will all work.

IMO, Gold Circle doesn't currently give much other than priority boarding and lounge access, so I'm interested to see what the new programme will offer.

Al GC members have now received emails about the new AerClub program which awards Avios.

TheWanderer posted this response from their customer team in the IAG thread: (emphasis is mine)

Gold Circle wrote:

Thank you for your query in relation to applicant members being transferred across into AerClub.

Applicant members will not lose the Gold Circle Points they have already accrued.

With the launch of AerClub we will be awarding associated Tier Credits for Applicants against the volume of Gold Circle Points they have already accumulated. This will allow Applicant members to continue their progression to attain Silver member status.

This is to ensure that members have every opportunity to earn Gold Circle Points on flight bookings between now and Spring 2016, as the level of flight behaviour between now and the New Year may impact the Tier status they attain.

AerClub offers members two fundamental programme enhancements. We have extended our tier membership levels so that there will be now four membership tiers, Green, Silver, Prestige and Concierge - with the Top three tiers holding recognition status.

Each tier will have a unique combination of reward and recognition benefits, which may include priority check in, priority boarding, lounge access, complimentary upgrades and bonus points earning.

The tier status reached on AerClub will be based on travel on all Aer Lingus flights. The tier status reached will determine the level of tier membership benefits. This will recognise the most loyal and frequent Aer Lingus flyers as tier points will be awarded on the basis of frequency and spend with Aer Lingus over a 12-month period. A true rewards programme that rewards members.
Thank you for your valued custom.

Pat Dunne · 24-11-2015 11:59AM

Personally I believe that Gold Circle awards/points should be taxed as "Benefit in Kind", same as a company car, free or subsidised accommodation or preferential loans, received from an employer.

Marcusm · 24-11-2015 12:08PM

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Personally I believe that Gold Cirle awards/points should be taxed as "Benefit in Kind", same as a company car, etc.

They can't be as civil servants also get to keep theirs! The Revenue justification is that there is no "cost" to the employer which is generally untrue. Some airlines have pooling or other schemes to allow employers to recover some value from miles - see BA's OnBusiness programme.

Car parking spaces are also not subject to BIK for the same reason, ie there would be uproar amongst civil servants.

By the way, I am not engaging in PS bashing - just reflecting on the reality of the situation. I have benefited from miles and free parking more than most.

Pat Dunne · 24-11-2015 12:16PM

Marcusm wrote: »

They can't be as civil servants also get to keep theirs! The Revenue justification is that there is no "cost" to the employer which is generally untrue. Some airlines have pooling or other schemes to allow employers to recover some value from miles - see BA's OnBusiness programme.

Car parking spaces are also not subject to BIK for the same reason, ie there would be uproar amongst civil servants.

By the way, I am not engaging in PS bashing - just reflecting on the reality of the situation. I have benefited from miles and free parking more than most.

I would look at what you have said and instead of "They can't be"..... It should be "They won't be"!
I seem to recall many years ago when Duty Free was been phased out that there was a deregation put in place for Civil Servants working for the EU to retain there Duty Free refund allowance
Says it all really.

ImDave · 24-11-2015 12:19PM

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Personally I believe that Gold Circle awards/points should be taxed as "Benefit in Kind", same as a company car, free or subsidised accommodation or preferential loans, received from an employer.

It would be difficult to draw a clear line between miles/benefits earned as a result of work travel paid for by an employer, and personal travel.

For example, I have status from a combination of personal travel, employer-paid travel, and travel arising from self-employment. I would imagine it would be an accounting nightmare, and realistically for people like myself anyway who don't have a huge amount of points, the potential BIK would be tiny.

Possibly a different scenario for someone who is earning multiple free TATL flights or upgrades all as a result of employer-paid travel however, particularly at the if the employer is public/state.

Pat Dunne · 24-11-2015 12:31PM

ImDave wrote: »

It would be difficult to draw a clear line between miles/benefits earned as a result of work travel paid for by an employer, and personal travel..................

Can't see how, either you trip is work related or not and thats why you pay an accountant to do your tax returns.

MJohnston · 24-11-2015 12:38PM

They can tax it as a benefit in kind when they give me some other incentive to devote 10-12 hours of my personal time (usually weekends) to sitting in a metal tube away from my family and friends. Only people who don't have to do regular business travel think that it's exciting and fun.

Pat Dunne · 24-11-2015 12:55PM

MJohnston wrote: »

They can tax it as a benefit in kind when they give me some other incentive to devote 10-12 hours of my personal time (usually weekends) to sitting in a metal tube away from my family and friends. Only people who don't have to do regular business travel think that it's exciting and fun.

I use to be in a metal box on wheels for 30 hours a week. Staying away 3/4 nights a week from my family and friends. Spending another 30 hours per week meeting with customers as a Company Representative travelling Ireland.

Yet I was taxed for the use of my company car.

I do agree with you real business travel has little glamour.

MJohnston · 24-11-2015 12:58PM

Pat Dunne wrote: »

I use to be in a metal box on wheels for 30 hours a week. Staying away 3/4 nights a week from my family and friends. Spending another 30 hours per week meeting with customers as a Company Representative travelling Ireland.

Yet I was taxed.

I do agree real business travel has little glamour.

Of course you were taxed, just like I am/the company I work for is as well. An equivalent here would be you using a fuel rewards card every time you filled up, and then got taxed on the rewards from that.

Pat Dunne · 24-11-2015 01:07PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Of course you were taxed, just like I am/the company I work for is as well. An equivalent here would be you using a fuel rewards card every time you filled up, and then got taxed on the rewards from that.

On top of my normal PAYE, PRSI etc, I was additionally taxed with Benefit in Kind for having of a company car. So I can't see any valid reason why one should not have to pay tax for something earned as a result of a work generated income/reward.

ImDave · 24-11-2015 01:11PM

Pat Dunne wrote: »

On top of my normal PAYE, PRSI and USC I was additionally taxed with Benefit in Kind for having of a company car. So I can't see any valid reason why one should not have to pay tax for something you earn as a result of work generated income/reward.

You are being taxed on BIK for only the personal element of usage on your company car as your company bares the cost of providing for that personal usage, something you would have to pay for privately otherwise.

Your employer does not bear the cost associated with the use of airline awards for personal use - the airline does. Yes they may be paying for some or all of the flights on which the awards were earned, but that is an indirect benefit offered at the discretion of the airline, and I would argue is completely different to the personal usage of a company car.

IRLConor · 24-11-2015 01:13PM

Another problem with trying to tax points/miles/whatever as BIK is that you'd have to put a monetary value on them. Good luck with that.

Even if you tried to assess the tax on the benefit actually received from using them you'd have a horrible time. If you spend 500 magic bean points to upgrade from economy to business class, is that equivalent to the difference between a full fare Y and full fare J ticket? The price of a last minute cash upgrade at check-in? The minimum bid in a bid-to-upgrade scheme? And that's an easy scenario. If I spend 1000 magic bean points to renew my membership at a particular tier in a scheme I get privileges like priority boarding. How should I be taxed for the privilege of not having to queue?

It would be a waste of time for Revenue to chase people over frequent flier benefits. The amount of money they'd recover would be tiny.

MJohnston · 24-11-2015 01:15PM

Pat Dunne wrote: »

On top of my normal PAYE, PRSI etc, I was additionally taxed with Benefit in Kind for having of a company car. So I can't see any valid reason why one should not have to pay tax for something earned as a result of a work generated income/reward.

Having a company car is far from equal to getting a few hundred Gold Circle points imo.

IAG bids for Aer Lingus

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