Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Carlee Noisy Screenplay wrote: »

Not exactly. Although, I did read else where, comments which were from another point of view. I have tried to find the link but no idea what site I read them on. They were supposedly booing FIFA, but that doesn't conform to your, or Nokia's, agenda so it's not even an option. The only reason they did it is because they are all terrorists who want to eat your children raw if they got the chance.

What I find odd is the search results for "Attacks in Turkey" show up the attacks in Paris. There's nothing biased about that algorithm at all.

nokia69 wrote: »

because they travelled into France from Belgium

everyone in France carries ID of some kind, otherwise you risk a trip to the police station

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/islamic-states-goal-eliminating-the-grayzone-of-coexistence-between-muslims-and-the-west/

The attack had “further [brought] division to the world,” the group said, boasting that it had polarized society and “eliminated the grayzone,” representing coexistence between religious groups. As a result, it said, Muslims living in the West would soon no longer be welcome in their own societies. Treated with increasing suspicion, distrust and hostility by their fellow citizens as a result of the deadly shooting, Western Muslims would soon be forced to “either apostatize … or they [migrate] to the Islamic State, and thereby escape persecution from the crusader governments and citizens,” the group stated, while threatening of more attacks to come.

ihatemyfish wrote: »

Why would they boo FIFA during a minutes silence for the Paris dead?

timthumbni wrote: »

So, just to be clear, is it only the IRA terrorists you support Tom, or do you also have a sneaking admiration for those ISIS boyos?

The IRA could certainly let them into a few secrets into bombing civilian bars.

For a bold IRA supporter that's Awkward.....

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Unlike you with your support for the degenerates in the UDR/RUC/BA I don't unconditionally support what the PIRA did.

My immediate fear is the resurgence of the Right in the West. I think that the threat from within is as dangerous as any external threat. It might not use bombs but it will use fear and misinformation to strangle what democracy we have (The E.U. is scarily undemocratic and that must change) until we wake up some day and it's dead.

ISIS are a threat - but they are also an opportunity for those who needed a new bogieman after the collapse of the U.S.S.R and for whom Orwell's 1984 describes a Utopia not a Dystopia. Those are the people I really fear.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Looking at what is coming from political 'leaders' no. Not unless there is a radical rethink of how we do things. I honestly do not see anyone currently in power who has either the intelligence or strength to try and break the old mold.
Sadly I think we are locked into the same thinking and game of military geo-political dominos we have been playing for hundred , if not thousands, of years.

Taking the loong view of this it seems to me that this is Persia Vs Greece still being played out. The religions followed have changed but are not as different from each other as we would like to think, both Christianity and Islam are based on books codified by rulers who wanted/needed a 'state' religion to hold their territories together - both books contain so many contradictions that passages can be found to justify just about anything and declared it the 'Will of God.'

Both West and East share many things in common. We are entwined even as we try to pull away. Ideas, technologies, information has always flowed back and forth between the two even as each tried to gain the upper hand. We need each other - as friends and rivals. Sadly, too often the rivalry turns bloody.

The format of the conflict has changed somewhat and Daesh have the jump on the West on that front. They are forcing us to into a reactive stance with their guerrilla game plan because they know ours backwards. They know we will default to 'boots on ground/bombs' because that is how warfare happened in Europe. You attack the enemies 'castle' - You engage in 'battle'. They know the West can out gun them in battle - so they will not engage that way. They do not have 'castles' - they are mobile. That was what defeated the Crusaders and it will defeat us now. They will hide among civilians and use each civilian death at the hands of the West as propaganda. They don't care about 'their' civilians but they know we care about 'ours' so that is where they will strike - they will kill but their main weapon will be fear.

We need to cut off their funding - make it illegal to trade with them and throw the book at anyone who does - be it arms, oil, art...

We need to stop trading with any country that supplies funds to them - full economic sanctions.

We need to cut off their publicity - let the hackers have at them!
I am sure they are loving the attention on 24 rolling news - lets reduce that. No censor, just keep it brief, factual and move on to the next item as these nutters aren't worthy of attention. We are feeding their egos and sense of self-importance. Lets stop doing that.

We need moderate Muslim religious leaders to dispute the Quran with them. Bombard YouTube with alternative interpretations.

We need to welcome refugees and treat them with dignity. Earn their respect and with that will come loyalty - not from 100% no - but loyalty from 99% can help us root out the 1%. Ally with the 99%. Show them we need them in this war and together we can defeat the extremists and they can go home. Offer to help them rebuild a la The Marshall Plan and then let them alone to build their own society as that want it to be.

When we strike militarily it has to be with pin-point accuracy. The assassins were a formidable weapon against the Crusaders - lets turn that on them. No civilian casualties, no blanket bombing of pawns. Take out the leaders quietly, silently, and without fuss. Terrify them by removing their main chess pieces off the board without fuss. Silent, unexpected death with no fanfare = no martyrdom.
Show those who are being told that the West doesn't care about Muslim lives that it does care - (or at least it doing a good job of pretending it does)...

Total War but played like Chess not The Charge of the Light Brigade meets Dambusters.


But if this is really going to have a long term solution then a hell of a lot about the way the West conducts itself will have to change.

We will have to stop playing Imperial master and acting as if non-Western people are incapable of running their own affairs. We are not their parents. We could be their allies. Yes, they might mess up but that is not our business and we should not interfere unless specifically asked and we should not take a request to help as an invitation to stay. We must respect the sovereignty of foreign nations even when they have stuff we want/need.

But even as we respect their sovereignty we need to think about who we trade with - we imposed sanctions on South Africa because of Apartheid but we were greeted with the sight of Cameron bowing in Saudi Arabia last week.
If we are interested in human rights and will impose sanctions on some who infringe then we have to be consistent - and that goes for Israel and China too. We are not consistent - we are hypocrites who will turn a blind eye if the price is right. That is a canker at the heart of our 'free' society and the rest of the world is well aware of it.

We will also have to stop the whole Cold War tactics of having a go at Russia by proxy (as Russia will also have to do) - That is playing out even now in Syria.

Mainly we have to stand by our own PR. If we are liberal and free societies where everyone is equal then we should actually do that or stop talking crap because we aren't fooling anyone.

There is a battle for hearts and minds going on and we are losing because we are demonising all Muslims, killing civilians, making vast profits from conflict in the M.E., trading with countries that whose human rights records would have to dramatically improve if they were to be described as appalling, our cities are full of disenfranchised minorities (unless they have they wherewithal to become a 'trendy' cause like LGB (and sometimes T) rights) who feel they have no future - no one kills themselves if they believe that have a decent future ahead of them - the latter needs to be addressed urgently - we have to give everyone a chance at a future regardless of their background because it will give them a stake in society. Too many young men do not feel that have either a stake, a future or a sense of belonging. ISIS exploits this - it makes them one of a 'brotherhood', promises them eternal life and a hero's death for a cause to replace the zombie numbness of an empty life in a country that seems to hate you.

My immediate fear is the resurgence of the Right in the West. I think that the threat from within is as dangerous as any external threat. It might not use bombs but it will use fear and misinformation to strangle what democracy we have (The E.U. is scarily undemocratic and that must change) until we wake up some day and it's dead.

ISIS are a threat - but they are also an opportunity for those who needed a new bogieman after the collapse of the U.S.S.R and for whom Orwell's 1984 describes a Utopia not a Dystopia. Those are the people I really fear.