Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

mynameis905 wrote: »

Saw it earlier. I have to admit that the non-rational side of me would just love to see the Americans drop a great big fúck off nuke on Raqqa and call it a day.

as a plan it has a ring to it

smash wrote: »

I don't recall any IRA member who was willing to blow themselves up in the hopes they would kill innocent people.

Catholicism wasn't strong enough to be able to make them do that. They would need the Dark side to do that (Islam).

Plenty of people up here did absolutely horrific things like Dublin bombing and Bloody Friday. We have had our share fair of lunatics with bombs. It's just it could be settled by talking and some rationale.

This lot don't have that.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

So the concept of moral wrongdoing and ethics is completely unknown to you then?
What a miserable world view that must be. Call me naive if you like, but I for one am extremely glad that I don't share it.

history shows that the victor tends to impose his morals on the vanquished. I dont therefore hold much stay in " morals " .

And again, that doesn't make it ok. Many things have "always" happened, but as much of the world has gradually become more civilised, those things have stopped being viewed as acceptable. Taking land by force from civilians who do not accept your rule is one of those things.

The world has become more civilised . seriously are you reading your newspapers.

Now, the Israelis can choose not to follow Western ethics if they don't want to - why should they be forced to, indeed? That isn't the issue. The issue is that abiding by our ethical principles should be an absolute, fundamental prerequisite for any support from us.

The wests ethical principles must be the most fluid around, you can make them up yourself

To put this more bluntly, unless the US and other governments say to Netanyahu "no more land grabbing or we won't veto a single UN resolution against you, or send you any more guns" then those governments are flaming hypocrites and are contributing to justified Arab hatred of the West.

I suspect we ( the west) will continue to be "flaming hypocrites " eel into the future . This is about greed, power and self interest . Lets just be honest

Do you honestly thing that people in those countries negatively affected by Western hypocrisy are too stupid to recognise hypocrisy and double-speak when they see it?

No, until of cource we arrive bearing dollars and stinger missiles , then there our best friends

So you're actually acknowledging then, that the West is ultimately responsible for putting together the ingredients for the spread of extremism.

it is a major contributor, it is not the ONLY contributor

I never suggested that it was the only factor. I suggested that it was a major factor, and that the West could remove one of those major factors if it tried to make some amends for the legitimate grievances many in that region hold against us.

amends , is that something you can drop from a F-18 , cause that is what type of amends we tend to do ( for good reason0)

I don't agree with this premise. Nowhere has to be ruled autocratically, some places just are and nobody is willing to do anything about it. Doesn't make it right. Autocratic rule is never right

.

right doesnt come into it, pragmatism does. right is a perception in the victor typically

Then they should split into smaller regions in which people can agree, and those who continue to try and start disputes should be prevented from doing so and punished.

the Brits tried that as did the french, its one of the main reason why the place is a mess today

I agree with the " be bold and we'll punish you ", if only we could make the US stay in places to deliver it,

Take Israel/Palestine as a good example of this. They will never have a consensus of government, hence why a two state solution is the only answer. And once that exists, anybody on either side who tries to instigate more violence should be ruthlessly dealt with.

complex issues, not easily solved by a few sentences , fundementally the Arab world wants Israel gone from the map.

But in order for that to happen, those who have committed reversible crimes must reverse them.

Reversible crimes, is that like reversible truths, or reversible ageing WTF. " I'm sorry said the mugger , heres some face balm, we've friends right !!" , are you 2 , seriously

The same applies to Western involvement in the Middle East. Start by sanctioning multinationals who have profited from artificially created conflicts and using the money from that to compensate people who have lost loved ones and property.

I think you could prosecute everyone in the middle east and most of the world with that attitude

Start actually prosecuting people who have engaged in the aforementioned (for example, those in the CIA who orchestrated and supervised rendition et al).

Why rendition, lets prosecute the decedents of slavers first, we need to get our priorities right

Stop co-operating with those who refuse to abide by our moral principles (Saudi, Egypt, Israel etc). Stop compromising on the fundamental cornerstone of Western society, which is a universal code of human and civil rights.

your seriously kidding me, western universal code of human and civil rights , have you read about Bosnia, WW2, ......... seriously were just a better dressed RAT then the next guy,

This is not about imposing Western rule on the Middle East, it's simply about refusing to co-operate with them diplomatically if they refuse to play nice with their own people.

play nice, you mean , let them visit McDonalds or something

Saudi Arabia for instance should be internationally blackballed like Apartheid South Africa until it reforms its human rights and political freedoms regime.

No, it should be burned to the ground with fire , but not for the reasons you mention

Double speak and devil-deals are ultimately why so many of these people hate our society.

people will always hate those that have more then them , its the natural order of things. its good too, helps the downtrodden to have something to aim at,

It has nothing at all to do with how we live our lives domestically, save for a tiny minority of extremist nutcases. The ordinary people they recruit and instigate are not driven by the same ideological puritanism but by a sense that the West is an imperialist enemy which is intend on stealing from them.

when you family is wiped out by a bomb dropped from an F18 , you tend to get radicalised fast.

LordSutch wrote: »

This thread is about the atrocities comitted in Paris on Friday night.
Multiple shootings, many deaths, and many people maimed for life.

So Nodin, what do you think about Terrorism as a means to getting your own way?

yes and this shootings are a result of many complex factors including immigration , military tactics,ISIS, Al-quaeda, the US , the west involvement in the middle east , etc etc

or do you think a couple of guys went into pennys , bought some black clothes and then blew up a load of people for a pastime

Fleawuss wrote: »

I am heartened by the presence of and clear outspoken message from the spokesman from the Islamic faith at the French embassy today. I am very clear that IS is one version of Islam: it is not the only one and it is clearly rejected by the leaders of the Islamic faith who spoke today. Well done to him.

Same for pretty much every country it seems.

I hope it puts to rest this notion that your average Muslim does nothing. There isn't much they can do but voice their dislike of ISIS and stand with the rest of the world in opposition to them.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Same for pretty much every country it seems.

I hope it puts to rest this notion that your average Muslim does nothing. There isn't much they can do but voice their dislike of ISIS and stand with the rest of the world in opposition to them.

until of course an F18 wipes out your extended family in Syria. tends to cause a bit of radicalisation and " camping trips " to the middle east

Peist2007 wrote: »

Yeah, it's my comprehension alright

Well done on selectively picking out a portion of what I said and representing it as something else. You really are a numpty. This is a discussion forum not an opinion piece for the irish times. Must we all quote our previous posts to provide context to people too lazy to read them or who simply ignore them to suit their agenda.

ihatemyfish wrote: »

It’s necessary to say clearly to the guests, who come to our homeland, that they are guests and they will remain guests who will behave as we dictate. They can’t tell us how to behave in our own home. Those that support open borders seem to think that we can let anyone and everyone who wants to live here in and then that we should ask "how can we help you settle and what do you need?"

It is time instead to ask immigrants "what can you do for us and how can you benefit the country at large with your presence?" The Eastern European countries get this and their citizens are mostly model immigrants when they move west. They work, they pay their way, integrate whilst also not forgetting their own roots and customs without causing any problems for the host. It's time Western European countries copied their nations approach.

I've read in the media that these murderous bastards were "oppressed and disillusioned." These people were provided with free or heavily subsidised social housing , free education, free healthcare and a truckload of welfare. How can anyone say that they were oppressed with a straight face and try and lay blame on Frances door?

Finally someone who can read. Just wait for peist to pick out murderous bastards and label you a racist though