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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #4592
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    BoatMad wrote: »
    way way too simplistic , Most Oil in the middle east has long been nationalised

    Yes the west has lots of blood on its hands as do the locals, but its not about money , even though money is involved. The conflicts there have been going on long before oil was ever discovered

    Of course it is a simplistic explanation. Entirely necessary on this thread unfortunately. Heads almost exploded here on Saturday when it was suggested that this should absolutely not be treated as a religious war as that would be exactly what ISIS want. Apparently that makes one a sympathiser with barbarity. Serious knuckle draggers in here.


  • #4593
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    Not religion alone, cultural compatability and education levels too. Take African immigrants to Ireland, 38% unemployment(according to the CSO/ESRI), any moron with half a brain can see we have just created a future problem, but no one says a word about vetting people coming into the country. At a minimum you need to ensure everyone entering Ireland can look after themselves and integrate.
    "keyboard warrior", but at least I am thinking about the potential issues. I care about my neighbors, kids and country, you seem to think Ireland is some utopia where we are exempt from the problems every other country in the world experiences with disenfranchised(real or imagined) minority populations, what'll it take, a ghetto riot? A terrorist attack? Ah no, im sure it will be grand, Ireland is somehow immune to reality.
    Why should we follow every failed cultural and immigration policy that the likes of Sweden, Britain and France have, Ireland should go its own way. One free from the risks of Islamic terrorism and ethnic/racial disenfranchisement. The Japanese way, deal with our own problems at home and send aid overseas, even if the risk of "homegrown" islamic terrorism is miniscule, who cares, its still a risk, why take it, there are literally no benefits, only costs and risks.

    Where did i indicate in any way that Ireland was a utopia? Point me to it.


  • #4594
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    Kenny told the Dáil last summer that the activities of a small number of people based in Ireland and “whose behaviour may be of concern” is monitored “closely and regularly”.

    How small? In July, a prominent Irish Muslim cleric Shaykh Dr Muhammad Umar Al-Qadri suggested that up to 100 of the 50,000 Muslims in Ireland are silent supporters of the Islamic State and its radical idealologies.

    Speaking in Brussels this morning, Foreign Affairs Minister Charlie Flanagan said a small number of people’s activities are being “monitored fully by An Garda Síochána”.

    But Flanagan would not go into detail on the numbers of those being monitored, citing “operational reasons”.

    Meanwhile, last year it was reported that up to 30 Irish residents are fighting with IS in Syria and Iraq. One of the concerns here is the possibility that these people may return to Ireland.

    Can the government not just gather up these radical ones and fingerprint them and also take swabs for the DNA database then put them on an aircraft and send them back to their country of origin ? They are obviously a threat as they already say they hate the west and it should be destroyed, so round them up and off they go. Why waste taxpaying citizens money on watching them all the time when we can just get rid of them from the Island.


  • #4595
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    So what are you saying then? "West vs Islam" are your words from one page back in the thread, do explain what you meant by that. You just shouting into the night or are you advocating a plan? Explain.

    If you really are incapable of understanding something that is explained very clearly then I don't know why I'm bothering, but to amuse you:

    You seem to make it out as if there's some big problem with the fact that an attack close by gets more attention than one further away.
    Bollocks of course, people will always feel more affected by a tragedy close by than one further away.

    The example of Seattle doesn't disprove anything, the US is a culturally similar country to France and the countries have a lot in common, so of course they will show sympathy to France.

    You're the only one here trying your very hardest to turn this into some anti-Arab issue while it's clearly not.

    And if you claim that you would pay as much attention to tragedies that happen far away than to those closer to home then that's great, but I really, really doubt it.

    edit: I never once said it's West vs Islam, so stop making it out to be. You come across as someone who is looking for stuff to get uppity about.


  • #4596
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    I never once said it's West vs Islam, so stop making it out to be. You come across as someone who is looking for stuff to get uppity about.

    You're correct. You said something even more stupid, considering that "this is all about Islam".
    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    Western world vs Arab world.

    Simple.


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  • #4597
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Where did i indicate in any way that Ireland was a utopia? Point me to it.

    You dont have an issue with mass islamic immigration, or mass immigration to Ireland. That implies you either, dont care, or believe Ireland is a utopia that will somehow be immune from the problems every other country in Europe with significant muslim populations is experiencing. You post as if allowing in a significant number of uneducated muslim men will cause zero problems, when all evidence points towards the opposite.


  • #4598
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    You're correct. You said something even more stupid, considering that "this is all about Islam".

    So that's not what you claim I said. Glad we cleared that up.
    What it (very clearly by the way) meant is that Arab people will be more affected by things happening in the Arab world, and Western people will care more about things happening in the Western world. As it always has and always will be, and it's perfectly normal to do so.

    Unless you want to deny this ?


  • #4599
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    You dont have an issue with mass islamic immigration, or mass immigration to Ireland. That implies you either, dont care, or believe Ireland is a utopia that will somehow be immune from the problems every other country in Europe with significant muslim populations is experiencing. You post as if allowing in a significant number of uneducated muslim men will cause zero problems, when all evidence points towards the opposite.

    Sorry, i missed where you quoted me saying Ireland was a utopia. Can you point me to that please? Otherwise you're completely disingenuous and have zero credibility. Deliberate misrepresentation generally ends an argument. So, show me there please.


  • #4600
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    So that's not what you claim I said. Glad we cleared that up.
    Are you denying that everywhere in the world people will care more about tragedies close to home vs those far away ?

    I dont think i can have any sort of proper discussion about this complex issue with someone who views things in as simplistic terms as
    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    Western world vs Arab world.

    Simple.


    Sorry. Adios.


  • #4601
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,150 ✭✭✭threeball


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    Can the government not just gather up these radical ones and fingerprint them and also take swabs for the DNA database then put them on an aircraft and send them back to their country of origin ? They are obviously a threat as they already say they hate the west and it should be destroyed, so round them up and off they go. Why waste taxpaying citizens money on watching them all the time when we can just get rid of them from the Island.

    Such is the joys of having a huge PC brigade in areas of authority. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Escort to Baldoyle with a one way ticket to be parachuted into some God forsaken sandbox to preach whatever they damn well please. If its so wonderful, go live it in full.


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  • #4602
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    I dont think i can have any sort of proper discussion about this complex issue with someone who views things in as simplistic terms as




    Sorry. Adios.

    :D Jesus wept.

    Seems I was right about how you're the type that is looking for things to get offended about. Taking things out of context seems to be your forte.
    It seems you still haven't answered whether you think it's normal that people all around the world will act in a similar manner. Not that I expect you to, that would mean conceding you're wrong.

    Au revoir.
    Or وداعا if you wish, wouldn't want to come across as inconsiderate.


  • #4603
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    :D Jesus wept.

    Seems I was right about how you're the type that is looking for things to get offended about. Taking things out of context seems to be your forte.
    It seems you still haven't answered whether you think it's normal that people all around the world will act in a similar manner. Not that I expect you to, that would mean conceding you're wrong.

    Au revoir.
    Or وداعا if you wish, wouldn't want to come across as inconsiderate.

    Pathetic. But i was waiting for it. Enjoy the ignorance.


  • #4604
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    threeball wrote: »
    Such is the joys of having a huge PC brigade in areas of authority. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Escort to Baldoyle with a one way ticket to be parachuted into some God forsaken sandbox to preach whatever they damn well please. If its so wonderful, go live it in full.

    It just doesn't make any sense at all to allow them to stay here when they are clearly a threat to our national security. Take their citizenship away and remove them, I'm sure the peaceful Muslims would want them gone as well. 100 of them it is said that are here and probably more that are most likely moving around trying to radicalise other peaceful Muslims.

    This government is a joke, and as was previously said... the government won't do anything till we are hit. Attack the west and any part of it IS say but the government still say that we not at threat, it boggles the mind.


  • #4605
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Sorry, i missed where you quoted me saying Ireland was a utopia. Can you point me to that please? Otherwise you're completely disingenuous and have zero credibility. Deliberate misrepresentation generally ends an argument. So, show me there please.

    Oh get off your high horse, I said "you seem to think", based upon your posts in which you refuse to acknowledge there is any downside to mass unvetted immigration of muslims, in light of a terrorist attack. That to me leads me to assume you think Ireland will be immune to the problems every other country has ran into, aka its a "utopia", a "utopian country in comparison to its neighbors. It my opinion of reading your posts, just like you read my posts "as the mass expulsion of every muslim in Ireland", though I'd never said such a thing, I didnt derail and start whining about it though, I answered your riposte in a direct a fashion as I possibly can, you should try it sometime.

    I suppose its easier to pick at a single word like "utopian" and not answer any question or formulate concrete plans for intergration because there are none, you have no answers other then emotion and excuses like the #notallmuslims, #refugeeswelcome people. You refuse to acknowledge there is an issue with either Islam/,mass immigration in europe and violence, when all the data points to it being the case. Muslim immigrants have just slaughtered over a hundred people, but Islam and mass immigration arent the problem, so what is it according to you?


  • #4606
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    threeball wrote: »
    Such is the joys of having a huge PC brigade in areas of authority. It shouldn't even be a discussion. Escort to Baldoyle with a one way ticket to be parachuted into some God forsaken sandbox to preach whatever they damn well please. If its so wonderful, go live it in full.

    I definitely think that the whole "freedom of religion" human right needs to be looked at. I do not think that extremism can be a valid religion and should not be treated as such. Any messing with extremists at any of these centres should be met with zero tolerance. I saw an article where extremists in the UK were voicing their opinions at a Muslim Quiz event, that **** is not religion and should be only treated as incitement.


  • #4607
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    There's the real agenda. "I dont like darkies". Sad.

    I don't like this relatively small country being swamped by immigrants regardless of the their skin colour, religion or otherwise - stop putting words in my mouth.

    ****



  • #4608
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,894 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Pathetic. But i was waiting for it. Enjoy the ignorance.

    So was I for an answer, guess I'll have to keep waiting :rolleyes:


  • #4609
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Originally Posted by JPNelsforearm View Post
    the refrence to MLK was a joke, about protestant colonialism in Ireland, was funny in my head, doesnt make sense when I read it back
    If you are defending your homeland its not an atrocity, simple. You have free reign until the invader leaves.

    wow, a complete approval of the Betaclan massacre , you couldnt get better


  • #4610
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,150 ✭✭✭threeball


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    It just doesn't make any sense at all to allow them to stay here when they are clearly a threat to our national security. Take their citizenship away and remove them, I'm sure the peaceful Muslims would want them gone as well. 100 of them it is said that are here and probably more that are most likely moving around trying to radicalise other peaceful Muslims.

    This government is a joke, and as was previously said... the government won't do anything till we are hit. Attack the west and any part of it IS say but the government still say that we not at threat, it boggles the mind.

    They won't even do anything if we are hit for fear of all the jumping up and down and being labelled racists by the raving liberals having a conniption about human rights. If it was me they'd be looking for their reserve shoot by this time tomorrow. Ticking time bombs the lot of them. Literally


  • #4611
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I don't like this relatively small country being swamped by immigrants regardless of the their skin colour, religion or otherwise - stop putting words in my mouth.

    This relatively small country fared pretty well from emigration over the years. And i didnt put words in your mouth. I was describing your thought process.


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  • #4612
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    threeball wrote: »
    They won't even do anything if we are hit for fear of all the jumping up and down and being labelled racists by the raving liberals having a conniption about human rights. If it was me they'd be looking for their reserve shoot by this time tomorrow. Ticking time bombs the lot of them. Literally

    so what would you do, ?


  • #4613
    BoatMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,506 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    I don't like this relatively small country being swamped by immigrants regardless of the their skin colour, religion or otherwise - stop putting words in my mouth.

    I think we statically miles away from being " swamped"


  • #4614
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    Oh get off your high horse, I said "you seem to think", based upon your posts in which you refuse to acknowledge there is any downside to mass unvetted immigration of muslims, in light of a terrorist attack. That to me leads me to assume you think Ireland will be immune to the problems every other country has ran into, aka its a "utopia", a "utopian country in comparison to its neighbors. It my opinion of reading your posts, just like you read my posts "as the mass expulsion of every muslim in Ireland", though I'd never said such a thing, I didnt derail and start whining about it though, I answered your riposte in a direct a fashion as I possibly can, you should try it sometime.

    I suppose its easier to pick at a single word like "utopian" and not answer any question or formulate concrete plans for intergration because there are none, you have no answers other then emotion and excuses like the #notallmuslims, #refugeeswelcome people. You refuse to acknowledge there is an issue with either Islam/,mass immigration in europe and violence, when all the data points to it being the case. Muslim immigrants have just slaughtered over a hundred people, but Islam and mass immigration arent the problem, so what is it according to you?

    Where did i say or refuse to acknowledge there is "no downside to mass unvetted immigration". Are you for real?


  • #4615
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    BoatMad wrote: »
    wow, a complete approval of the Betaclan massacre , you couldnt get

    A Belgian National and Syrian national shoot up a theatre in Paris in the name of a religion, and thats somehow "defending their homeland", LOL, strong reading comprehension. I meant what I said,m If Ireland was invaded and occupied by a foreign power, its citizens have free reign to throw off the imperial yoke, what is objectionable about that? What would you advocate? Surrender? Collaboration?


  • #4616
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,150 ✭✭✭threeball


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    I definitely think that the whole "freedom of religion" human right needs to be looked at. I do not think that extremism can be a valid religion and should not be treated as such. Any messing with extremists at any of these centres should be met with zero tolerance. I saw an article where extremists in the UK were voicing their opinions at a Muslim Quiz event, that **** is not religion and should be only treated as incitement.

    Why leave people that you know have only hatred for you and your way of life remain here and try to convince others of the same. It makes no sense. I'm no conspiracy theorist but there has to be some different game at play here. You wouldn't leave a lodger in your house if he had told everyone down the pub that he hated your guts and was going to slit your throat while you slept. We're dealing with the same thing and Kenny and co need to be asked why they're leaving the lodger in the next room.


  • #4617
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    So was I for an answer, guess I'll have to keep waiting :rolleyes:

    Post 4546. Try reading, good lad. ;)


  • #4618
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    threeball wrote: »
    They won't even do anything if we are hit for fear of all the jumping up and down and being labelled racists by the raving liberals having a conniption about human rights. If it was me they'd be looking for their reserve shoot by this time tomorrow. Ticking time bombs the lot of them. Literally

    The thing is that your comment above is just absolutely unhelpful to anyone and everyone and is sheer fear turning into hate (Hey, Yoda was ahead of his time). I'm unsure exactly what you meant about "reserve shoot", but the "raving liberals" are mostly saying "yes, there are horrendous people out there and some are trying to get into our countries and need to be stopped, imprisoned, weeded out, BUT there are also hundreds of thousands of peaceful everyday people (who are Muslim, yes) and going to war against them is pointless and counterproductive."


  • #4619
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    threeball wrote: »
    Why leave people that you know have only hatred for you and your way of life remain here and try to convince others of the same. It makes no sense. I'm no conspiracy theorist but there has to be some different game at play here. You wouldn't leave a lodger in your house if he had told everyone down the pub that he hated your guts and was going to slit your throat while you slept. We're dealing with the same thing and Kenny and co need to be asked why they're leaving the lodger in the next room.

    Because i dont think every Muslim hates me and, to do so, frankly, is retarded.


  • #4620
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,150 ✭✭✭threeball


    BoatMad wrote: »
    so what would you do, ?

    I told you what I'd do. Round them up and drop them off somewhere in the middle east that either they or their ancestors called home. You hate the place so much get the fcuk out, you won't be missed. There will be countless emails, texts, witnesses of their animosity to our way of life to back up the reason to jettison the pricks.


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  • #4621
    Uncle Ben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    threeball wrote: »
    Why leave people that you know have only hatred for you and your way of life remain here and try to convince others of the same. It makes no sense. I'm no conspiracy theorist but there has to be some different game at play here. You wouldn't leave a lodger in your house if he had told everyone down the pub that he hated your guts and was going to slit your throat while you slept. We're dealing with the same thing and Kenny and co need to be asked why they're leaving the lodger in the next room.

    There's an election due fairly shortly. Make your local td aware of your concerns.


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