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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #3752
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,692 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    What kind of checks do you want?

    When I arrive in a foreign destination I wave my passport, sometimes they look at it for a second or two - although to be fair when I was arriving in Spain from Tangiers I did have to fill out a form declaring I am the person my passport says I am. Is that too lax do you think? I could be anyone like.

    What kind of checks do you want to see in place?


    Hmmmm... dismissing people as animals and psychos is an interesting tactic to counter ISIS propaganda but I can't help but feel it would be counter-productive.

    Also it's unfair to animals who do not tend to be psychotic - that honour is generally reserved for humans.

    For asylum seekers/refugees they should be contactable at any time, and their whereabouts should be known, much like how the US keep track of certain types of VISAs - i know that for the J1 they regularly contact you regarding where and what you work as.


  • #3753
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭take everything


    whatismyname wrote: »
    The strangeness of Kay Burley...

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/665807478060392448

    Love the comments underneath


  • #3754
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,058 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Let's also keep in mind that out of some 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide, some 0.3% are actually associated with IS.

    So just the 5 million to worry about then!


  • #3755
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    What kind of checks do you want?

    When I arrive in a foreign destination I wave my passport, sometimes they look at it for a second or two - although to be fair when I was arriving in Spain from Tangiers I did have to fill out a form declaring I am the person my passport says I am. Is that too lax do you think? I could be anyone like.

    What kind of checks do you want to see in place?
    Do they have a valid passport and visa? If not then put them in a secure refugee camp or send them home.
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Hmmmm... dismissing people as animals and psychos is an interesting tactic to counter ISIS propaganda but I can't help but feel it would be counter-productive.
    Why would you want the kind of people that would fall for that propaganda on your side?


  • #3756
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,190 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Indeed, but you missed bolding something important Agnes was only eight on her arrival at Constantinople, while Alexius was thirteen. Her husband wasn't in his mid fifties.

    Not only that, those past traditions are past.

    They aren't still being used to justify people doing the same in Europe today. Unlike Islamic traditions. Because Mohammed did it, and he's "the perfect Muslim".
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415871/Yemeni-child-bride-8-dies-internal-injuries-night-forced-marriage-groom-40.html

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • #3757
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Difference is they are still marrying children.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28250471

    So did Jerry Lee Lewis.

    In fact - some Christians believe the Bible gives them permission to do so still
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage#United_States

    Also apprently 40% of the world's child marriages occur in India - damn Hindu's!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage#India


  • #3758
    opiniated
    Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    take everything wrote: »
    There's some uncertainty about the passport now.

    I continually struggle to understand what drives their ideology.
    "Jews and intellectuals" among others are the enemy.

    The anti-Jewish thing is just hatred/racism/the usual Great Satan trope but intellectuals? What is that about?

    That's like being anti-humanity.
    What the fcuk is wrong with intellect.

    I'm continually fascinated by what drives their hatred.

    It's not massively dissimilar to what drives mass shootings in the US. Usually these guys (and it's nearly always guys), "beta" guys for want of a better term, are powerless and frustrated with a complex about women (in the case of Daesh these headbangers are obsessed with sex/women and its/their control seemingly).

    I'm reading Isis: State of Terror to try to understand it more. It's baffling.


    The Jewish bit is because Judaism was the "established" religion at the time Islam originated, hence a threat to Islam being accepted.

    The objection to "intellectuals" is a common theme for those interested in becoming dominant. Historically, Hitler is a good example of this. (No, I'm not trying to Godwin the thread, just stating how people/groups who wish to establish a new power tend to eliminate perceived opposition)


  • #3759
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    So did Jerry Lee Lewis.

    In fact - some Christians believe the Bible gives them permission to do so still
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage#United_States

    Also apprently 40% of the world's child marriages occur in India - damn Hindu's!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage#India

    I must have missed the part where Jerry Lee Lewis was held up as a virtuous example for the world to follow.


  • #3760
    Arne_Saknussem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,732 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    CNN reporting that that fingerprints taken in Greece matched that of the Stade de France bomber and that the passport was emergency passport:

    "The first bomber to blow himself up at the Stade de France on Frida was Syrian, and he landed with migrants on the Greek island of Leros on October 2, where he was issued an emergency passport under the name Ahmad al-Mohammad. The fingerprints on that passport matched those of the Stade de France bomber, Amanpour said, citing an unnamed French senator who was briefed by the Ministry of the Interior."

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/15/world/paris-attacks/


  • #3761
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    custard gannet wrote: »
    With all due respect I never heard of them before Friday, and I have never heard a single note of their music.

    However, I am confident they are utter shi't, and just because of this tragedy it doesn't mean we have to endorse this talentless cack.

    QOTSA frontman Josh Hommes side project. Far from ****.


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  • #3762
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,190 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Arne_Saknussem wrote: »
    CNN reporting that that fingerprints taken in Greece matched that of the Stade de France bomber and that the passport was emergency passport:

    "The first bomber to blow himself up at the Stade de France on Frida was Syrian, and he landed with migrants on the Greek island of Leros on October 2, where he was issued an emergency passport under the name Ahmad al-Mohammad. The fingerprints on that passport matched those of the Stade de France bomber, Amanpour said, citing an unnamed French senator who was briefed by the Ministry of the Interior."

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/15/world/paris-attacks/
    If that's true, then even if his identity was fake and he wasn't actually Syrian, it means the refugee crisis is being deliberately exploited to bring fighters into Europe. That's seriously bad news, in all sorts of ways.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #3763
    speedboatchase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,843 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    QOTSA frontman Josh Hommes side project. Far from ****.

    Also, at least they're an actual band. You wouldn't know it due to the amount of fawning press they receive but P*ssy Riot have never had a record deal or officially released an album. They're just activists with a cool gimmick.


  • #3764
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    Social Media Rumours About The Paris Attacks That You Shouldn’t Believe

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/paris-attacks-social-media-rumours#.vlpbwYxQx

    Social media really is very weird sometimes.


  • #3765
    Orangebrigade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭Orangebrigade


    Well it is a full day on now and now is usually when the liberals come out and spout the PC rubbish and say we should invite more "refugees" in and arrest these ISIS terrorists instead.


  • #3766
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    whatismyname wrote: »
    The strangeness of Kay Burley...

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/665807478060392448

    That's simply an unbelievably tactless tweet. It is mind boggling to think she's a reporter for a major news network , sacking her would be an appropriate response to that tweet.


  • #3767
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Indeed, but you missed bolding something important Agnes was only eight on her arrival at Constantinople, while Alexius was thirteen. Her husband wasn't in his mid fifties.

    As a 12 year old widow Agnes married the 65 year old Andronicus Comnenus (he also had sex with at least two of his nieces).

    - want to quibble with that too? Or are you willing to concede that Christians also engaged in child marriages so it's a bit of a nonsense to act like Muhammad was only old goat in history?


  • #3768
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    That's simply an unbelievably tactless tweet. It is mind boggling to think she's a reporter for a major news network , sacking her would be an appropriate response to that tweet.
    Was it a joke or does she really believe the dog knows about the attack?


  • #3769
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    As a 12 year old widow Agnes married the 65 year old Andronicus Comnenus (he also had sex with at least two of his nieces).

    - want to quibble with that too? Or are you willing to concede that Christians also engaged in child marriages so it's a bit of a nonsense to act like Muhammad was only old goat in history?
    I see you using the past tense there. What about the present?


  • #3770
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Was it a joke or does she really believe the dog knows about the attack?

    I agree with how tactless it was. I can't figure out if she's taking the piss, if she's genuine, or if she is somehow (inappropriately?) trying to lighten the mood.

    Although I do find this quote retweet she later did a little enlightening

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/665858970351964160

    in response to

    https://twitter.com/nigelpauley/status/665857891262406656


  • #3771
    thomasj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    Never been explained.....how come a suicide bomber was detected attempting to enter Stade de France and appears to have been allowed to walk away unchallenged. Or did the guy blow himself up at the same time as he was refused entry. Was he attempting to enter the ground 20 minutes after the game started? I don't get it

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/attacker-tried-to-enter-paris-stadium-but-was-turned-away-1447520571


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  • #3772
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    As a 12 year old widow Agnes married the 65 year old Andronicus Comnenus (he also had sex with at least two of his nieces).

    - want to quibble with that too? Or are you willing to concede that Christians also engaged in child marriages so it's a bit of a nonsense to act like Muhammad was only old goat in history?

    What's the betting someone could publish a cartoon making fun of old Andronicus & not have to go into hiding?


  • #3773
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    I think she is trying to be poignant. Failing of course, but I think that was her aim. She risks her professional news career if she was being funny or dismissive, etc.


  • #3774
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Do they have a valid passport and visa? If not then put them in a secure refugee camp or send them home.


    Why would you want the kind of people that would fall for that propaganda on your side?

    I'm not sure you are familiar with the level of devastation in Syria...
    https://www.google.ie/search?q=images+of+aleppo+syria&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&imgil=hg56xrajWsMRqM%253A%253Ba2BXhNDWXtuz6M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ftheloquitur.com%25252Fcannon-schnellbaecher-keynote-address%25252Fdeadly-blasts-rip-through-aleppo-syria-2%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=hg56xrajWsMRqM%253A%252Ca2BXhNDWXtuz6M%252C_&usg=__6C_3sO6pg51jFeP8olUIqoa7E1w%3D&ved=0CDIQyjdqFQoTCPOT35q-kskCFQWQDwodiQ0Gzw&ei=HIJIVvOVIIWgPombmPgM#imgrc=hg56xrajWsMRqM%3A&usg=__6C_3sO6pg51jFeP8olUIqoa7E1w%3D



    Or how propaganda works...


  • #3775
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Sunflower 27 wrote: »
    I think she is trying to be poignant. Failing of course, but I think that was her aim. She risks her professional news career if she was being funny or dismissive, etc.

    I'm not sure about this. The modern currency of journalism is clickbait & outrage. Tons of people sharing your articles or tweets & engaging with them, even if it's only to exclaim "My God, what a moron!" raises your profile as a journalist & thus your marketability. Cf. Katie Hopkins.


  • #3776
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    whatismyname wrote: »
    I think you are probably right.

    My original comment when sharing her tweet commented on her 'strangeness'. I do think she was aiming for being poignant, but see it as so strange that she didn't see quite how odd this tweet would be.

    The thing with social media is everyone wants to get in first, so likely she did this with very little thought. She's been called an idiot many times, this won't come as too big a surprise to many.


  • #3777
    wendell borton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    I'm sure the dog is just picking up on what must be a fairly melancholic mood in Paris at the moment. But who knows? Given some of the ridiculous tweets and statements by some of our elected representatives maybe the dog has a better understanding of the situation.


  • #3778
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Custardpi wrote: »
    I'm not sure about this. The modern currency of journalism is clickbait & outrage. Tons of people sharing your articles or tweets & engaging with them, even if it's only to exclaim "My God, what a moron!" raises your profile as a journalist & thus your marketability. Cf. Katie Hopkins.

    Nah, I truly believe she was trying to be deep and clever and just came off looking like a fool.


  • #3779
    whatismyname
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    Custardpi wrote: »
    I'm not sure about this. The modern currency of journalism is clickbait & outrage. Tons of people sharing your articles or tweets & engaging with them, even if it's only to exclaim "My God, what a moron!" raises your profile as a journalist & thus your marketability. Cf. Katie Hopkins.

    Yes, good point, and in hindsight I think you're probably on the right track, given that part of her response is 'only one thing worse than being talked about'.


  • #3780
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Or it could be the age old human tendency to anthropomorphise animals' "expressions". That dog could just be thinking about his next meal.


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  • #3781
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Custardpi wrote: »
    I must have missed the part where Jerry Lee Lewis was held up as a virtuous example for the world to follow.

    K - so people complain that Muhammad married a child. It is pointed out - with historically verifiable examples - that this was actually quite common among the Christian ruling elites.

    Then it becomes 'oh, well... 'they' still do it' - so it is pointed out that sooooo do Christians and in fact the greatest number of child marriages occurs in Hindu India.

    Now we have 'Ah but... example to the world...'.

    Goal posts are simply whizzing around the place at the speed of knots.


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